General Gaming Sales/Charts Discussion

[Goafer]

I'd be interested to know when these glory days of gaming were*. Every era as far as I can remember had it's fad. 16 bit was a slew of platform/side scrolling games, 32 bit was racing/fighting/arcade games, XBox/PS2 was third person action/shooters. And yet each generation including this one, has utter masterpieces that came out alongside all the shovelware. This generation we've had things like Red Dead, Persona 5 and The Witcher, as well as more niche titles such as Nier: Automata, Undertale, Hellblade, Firewatch and Lost in the Woods.

People forget the shit games from previous generations and only remember the great games, making them think it was all amazing back then, when actually there were just as many shit games and churned out sequels/ripoffs. For every Sonic/Mario, there were plenty of Bubsies, Wayne's Worlds, Awesome Possums and Ristars.

*Not picking on you HoT, just the idea that this generation is somehow worse than others and your phrase suits my point perfectly.

[Glen-i]

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

For me it's not about my needs not getting catered for, more the fact that certain practices are starting to seep into games and genres that I do care about.

You're seeing this seep into Ninty's titles as well. While not nearly as exploitative as the likes of FIFA, there are still games that offer "Time Saver" microtransactions to give an advantage for those willing to pay for it. Super Kirby Clash was the most recent one, where after a certain point, it becomes difficult to progress without a whole lot of grinding and waiting for more Gem Apples to come around. That kind of bull is the reason I'm not wasting my time with it, I learned my lesson from the 3DS version.

Pokémon Quest, Mario Kart Tour and the like are all games that use this format, Mario Kart Tour in particular is a real sour spot for me, because I genuinely tthink the time spent making that game would have been better off just making a new DLC pack for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe instead. I would have bought that, and given it's one of the Switch's biggest titles, lots of others would have as well. Some of the tracks bought back for the mobile game would have been nice to have on the Switch version.

42 minutes ago, MindFreak said:

But haven't we said this for like, 15 years? And there are still great games released alongside those AAAAAAA games. The industry needs the big sellers to make a profit so they can make what they want. 

It's a bit of a different scenario, but have you ever noticed how the traditional consoles pretty much never get Pokémon spin-off games anymore?

The only ones that Switch has currently is a port of a mobile game, Pokkén (Enhanced WiiU port) and the upcoming Detective Pikachu 3DS port. It's a far cry from the DS days where we got a smorgasbord of Pokémon spin-offs that took the IP and did something different with it (Strategy RPG, Plot-focused Roguelike, Drawing action adventure, Ordance Survey Racing, Puzzle Game and even a Typing Game)

It's precisely because The Pokémon Company have been chasing microtransactions ever since Pokémon GO. They're making crazy money from the Pokémon IP but they're not using it to fund these games you refer to. Why bother when you can make mediocre, yet addictive games that attempt to get people to pay for these microtransactions.

[Glen-i]

16 minutes ago, Goafer said:

People forget the shit games from previous generations and only remember the great games, making them think it was all amazing back then, when actually there were just as many shit games and churned out sequels/ripoffs. For every Sonic/Mario, there were plenty of Bubsies, Wayne's Worlds, Awesome Possums and Ristars.

@Dcubed! Get in here and help me lynch this guy!

[Hero-of-Time]

Did you just lump Ristar in with Wayne's World? 

Oh, I agree, software has always had its good and its bad. When I say glory days I mean it in the sense of when things were simpler. Like when you put a game in and have it working without updates. A game that's actually finished and was fully on the disc/cart. When console games were created with the intention of players enjoying it rather than it being made in an attempt to get more money out of you. Basically before the whole home console business became about more about the money and less about the actual games.

Yes, obviously companies are in the business of making money but it was never as pushy or blatant as it is now.

[Goafer]

7 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

@Dcubed! Get in here and help me lynch this guy!

I thought that one might be controversial!

[Ronnie]

Sticking an advert online on Instagram or a Wiki guide is a little different from actively promoting it. This was your big release in October, from one of your own studios, talk about it! It would have benefited from a game-specific State of Play (we all know those are coming eventually).

I'm still annoyed they screwed Tearaway (twice), which consigned Media Molecule to spending 7+ years making another game that won't sell, Dreams.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Ronnie

[Goafer]

2 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Basically before the whole home console business became about more about the money and less about the actual games.

Yes, obviously companies are in the business of making money but it was never as pushy or blatant as it is now.

I'd say it was always about money, we were just too young to realise. Games like Mario. Sonic and Final Fantasy had annual releases (even more if you include spinoffs), no different to the way certain series do nowadays. Film spinoff games often had bugger all to do with the actual films and were just a cynical cash grab. Even McDonalds cashed in on the gaming market (actually a pretty good game AFAIK).

[Goafer]

7 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Sticking an advert online on Instagram or a Wiki guide is a little different from actively promoting it. This was your big release in October, from one of your own studios, talk about it! It would have benefited from a game-specific State of Play (we all know those are coming eventually).

I wouldn't say it was different at all. Paid social media marketing is one of the best ways to reach your audience.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Goafer

[Hero-of-Time]

1 minute ago, Goafer said:

I'd say it was always about money, we were just too young to realise. Games like Mario. Sonic and Final Fantasy had annual releases (even more if you include spinoffs), no different to the way certain series do nowadays. Film spinoff games often had bugger all to do with the actual films and were just a cynical cash grab. Even McDonalds cashed in on the gaming market (actually a pretty good game AFAIK).

The games you mentioned that had fast releases were actually good though. Final Fantasy VII, VIII and IX were all released close together and we're all great games. Here we are now with FFXV, a game that had to have insane amount of patches just to get the game running and fix all the problems it had. 

Sonic is a fair example though. Granted, I didn't know until years later that Sonic 3 was cut in half but it still felt like a finished product to me. It's my favorite Sonic game. Whether that speaks about its quality or my stupidity I'll let you decide.  

Some film spin off games may have been cash grabs (some of them were pretty good....although that may just be the younger me talking) but at least they were complete experiences.

[Ronnie]

4 minutes ago, Goafer said:

I wouldn't say it was different at all. Paid social media marketing is one of the best ways to reach your audience.

34th place in one of Playstation's strongest markets for an SIE game doesn't suggest it's worked particularly well.

It's one part of an advertising campaign, sure, but it's hardly pushing your game or getting the word out effectively. That would have been promoting it in a State of Play, and really diving into it. Most of the thread ResetEra didn't even know it had already released or was anywhere close to release.

[Hero-of-Time]

4 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

34th place in one of Playstation's strongest markets for an SIE game doesn't suggest it's worked particularly well.

It's one part of an advertising campaign, sure, but it's hardly pushing your game or getting the word out effectively. That would have been promoting it in a State of Play, and really diving into it. Most of the thread ResetEra didn't even know it had already released or was anywhere close to release.

PushSquare (PS equivalent of NintendoLife) posted an article about the whole thing. Worth a read.

HERE

[Goafer]

1 minute ago, Ronnie said:

34th place in one of Playstation's strongest markets for an SIE game doesn't suggest it's worked particularly well.

It's one part of an advertising campaign, sure, but it's hardly pushing your game or getting the word out effectively. That would have been promoting it in a State of Play, and really diving into it. Most of the thread ResetEra didn't even know it had already released or was anywhere close to release.

Could it not just be that it's not the sort of game Playstation owners want to play anymore? It looks more like an original Xbox/PS2 game to me (in terms of style), in a similar vein to Psychonauts or Beyond Good and Evil. These games just aren't popular nowadays, at least not with Sony/Microsoft's target audience. I don't think any amount of marketing will change that.

I'm certain that it would have done well on the Switch, but I don't think it has anything to with marketing. It's just a different userbase that wants different things. You want AAA blockbuster games? Buy a PS4 or XBone. You want more niche, but varied games? Buy a Switch. All companies are doing well, so it's clearly working for them.

I personally think it's great that we have this choice and to me, both choices are equally valid. Each side of the coin has great games and can more accurately target their intended demographic. I wouldn't want either side to become a jack of all trades. 

[Dcubed]

I think there’s a couple of things we have to remember here.

 

Firstly, today’s generation of kids are growing up on Minecraft, YouTube and F2P mobile games.  Almost every single kid in the developed world has a smartphone; be it a hand-me-down or a brand new one, and they have been conditioned to believe that video games are something that you get for free.

 

Secondly, kids by and large do not play consoles anymore.  Even Nintendo is currently failing to capture younger audiences as kids now almost exclusively play mobile F2P games & Minecraft and watch Let’s Play live-streams...

 

This is scarily accurate

 

Nintendo are going into mobile precisely because they know that that’s where the kids are playing right now.  Today’s kids are growing up not even knowing what Super Mario and Pokemon even are.  Their Gods are the likes of Pewdiepie and all of the other alt-right white supremicists who dominate YouTube and Silicon Valley (the future is pretty frightening isn’t it?).

 

And the mobile market has spoken.  They want to be scammed with skinner boxes and actively reject anything else.  While Apple Arcade at least offers some hope, subscription-based services come with their own list of problems...

 

... traditional full-priced sales are probably doomed to die at some point (probably within the next 10 years) as subscription services fully take over.  At least it’s still gonna be better than F2P taking over I suppose 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

I see Ubisoft have stated that both The Division 2 and Ghost Recon Breakpoint have failed to meet expectations/sold poorly.

A blind man on a galloping horse could have seen this coming. Releasing two live service games on top of the ones you still have going was a recipe for disaster. Not to mention Ghost Recon looked to be a rushed, buggy mess and a shadow of what Wildlands was. I see that it has already recieved a hefty price cut at Tescos.

Jim Sterling and others (guys on Sacred Symbols & some of the EZA guys) have said for ages now that the market can't sustain all of these GaaS/live service games at the same time and it looks like it's finally starting to show. People only have so much free time and some of these games were just gonna have to give.

[bob]

Perhaps this will result in them focusing more resources into fewer GaS games and thus giving us better versions?

Nah.

[Hero-of-Time]

Wow. I'm very surprised by this weeks charts. MediEvil not only made it into the top 10 but entered in at number 5. 

Call of Duty dominated, as expected. However, I am happy that this one has sold more than the last entry. It sends the message that a single player campaign is important and should be part of the whole package when releasing a mainline game.

Quote

It's a good week for Activision as Call of Duty: Modern Warfare delivers a very strong first week at UK games retail.

For physical sales alone, the game has sold 39% more units than its predecessor managed (Call of Duty: Black Ops 4) during its launch week. The sales are not as high as 2017's Call of Duty: WWII, but GamesIndustry.biz understands that with digital included, the sales are a lot closer. We won't know the full extent of its digital performance until the GSD charts arrive later in the week.

62% of the game's sales are on PS4, which has the bigger install base and access to the Spec Ops survival mode. 38% of sales are on Xbox One.

 

[Happenstance]

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more to do with the Modern Warfare reboot rather than a single player campaign.

[Hero-of-Time]

4 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more to do with the Modern Warfare reboot rather than a single player campaign.

Shhhhh. Let me live hope. 

[Kav]

PS4 has now outsold the Wii.

Impressive!

[Helmsly]

 

Edit - Wrong thread lol

Edited November 23, 2019 by Helmsly

[Nicktendo]

Congrats to Game Freak. Saw this on Twitter the other day. Excellent meming. 

[Hero-of-Time]

The first point means that there was a time where people thought that digital and physical could kind of live side by side, with digital games being bought by a different set of gamers. This has now completely shifted and the market can longer grow and is in fact shrinking rapidly when it comes to physical releases and purchasing.Digital will continue to rise and physical fall as the next generation approaches.

I can't say i'm surprised by this at all. Digital games have become the norm and they go on sale all of the time, often being cheaper than their physical counter parts. You then have brick and mortar stores being shut left and right. Furthermore, we have things like Game Pass massively effect the sales of physical games, as seen by the Gears 5 numbers.

There are many Switch/PS4 games that just release only on their digital stores and you need to jump through hoops and follow different companies just to get a physical version. Even then, is it worth it? Especially when games need to be patched. You are having to pay sometimes around £40-50 for a game that is being sold digitally for around £10-20.

 

[Ike]

On 24/01/2020 at 10:38 AM, Hero-of-Time said:

There are many Switch/PS4 games that just release only on their digital stores and you need to jump through hoops and follow different companies just to get a physical version. Even then, is it worth it? Especially when games need to be patched. You are having to pay sometimes around £40-50 for a game that is being sold digitally for around £10-20.

I've considered this a few times with my Switch collection. I've got the Japanese Mega Man Zero collection on preorder, but I wonder if it's worth it and I should just get the digital one, not that I expect a game like that to need updates I think previous collections got some fixes. I want to get Animal Crossing digital but part of me still wants to get the physical just to get the box and the game on a cart.

It's a bit annoying that Fire Emblem Three Houses doesn't have the higher difficulties and the new route on the cart. Nintendo doesn't tend to release "GOTY" versions on the same console, but release them on the next hardware cycle as "Definitive Edition" etc.

Splatoon 2 got a number of DLC updates, and the game lives or dies with it's online mode so buying a physical copy was kind of a mistake, once the servers go down then the game has no value.

I'm not really expecting Animal Crossing to get many DLC updates, though you never know.

It's a bit weird that physical releases are becoming something that gets celebrated.

[Hero-of-Time]

It's something that I have been thinking about since the end of last year. I love having my games on disc/cart but it's getting harder to justify spending the money and jumping through the hoops just to have a physical copy of a game, especially when it's not really a complete version of it. Very few games ship as a finished or working product now.

The Switch has been terrible for not having physical games, mainly because publishers don't want to spend the money on the carts. What we end up with is games that are half download and half cart or in Capcoms case, they just ditch a physical release altogether. 

It will be interesting to see how physical games fare next generation. With digital purchases eating into its market at a rapid pace it doesn't look good for those who enjoy physical copies of games. Maybe it's time to just except what's happening and join these box less heathens?  

[Julius]

On 24/01/2020 at 10:38 AM, Hero-of-Time said:

The first point means that there was a time where people thought that digital and physical could kind of live side by side, with digital games being bought by a different set of gamers. This has now completely shifted and the market can longer grow and is in fact shrinking rapidly when it comes to physical releases and purchasing. Digital will continue to rise and physical fall as the next generation approaches.

I can't say i'm surprised by this at all. Digital games have become the norm and they go on sale all of the time, often being cheaper than their physical counter parts. You then have brick and mortar stores being shut left and right. Furthermore, we have things like Game Pass massively effect the sales of physical games, as seen by the Gears 5 numbers.

There are many Switch/PS4 games that just release only on their digital stores and you need to jump through hoops and follow different companies just to get a physical version. Even then, is it worth it? Especially when games need to be patched. You are having to pay sometimes around £40-50 for a game that is being sold digitally for around £10-20.

Quote

It will be interesting to see how physical games fare next generation. With digital purchases eating into its market at a rapid pace it doesn't look good for those who enjoy physical copies of games. Maybe it's time to just except what's happening and join these box less heathens?

Yeah, it's a weird one.

Funnily enough, I've actually been giving it some thought over the last few months as to whether or not I'll continue to get physical copies over their digital counterparts once the PS5 releases.

On the one hand, like many of you, I love having these games on my shelf; they're generally cheaper at launch to buy physically, and if pre-ordered online from certain retailers, often turn up a few days early; and it offers you the chance to own the game, and not just a license which can be rescinded at any given point.

On the other hand, my shelves are almost filled up these days anyways: I love films and have a sizeable Blu-Ray collection, and there are all of the games which I own physically from my childhood, too. And then there are my books, which I tried to transition away from by getting a Kindle, but not much luck making the transition quite yet. 

Then there's the matter of delivery of online orders. Using Final Fantasy VII Remake as a bit of an extreme example, which releases on 10th April, being Good Friday and the start of the four day Easter weekend, it could potentially be a bit of a mess. As the game is releasing on a bank holiday Friday, it will most likely be dispatched early, and so I imagine arrive for most people much earlier in the week, which gives us a great chance to install it and have everything ready to go for the long weekend. However, there's nothing to say that it's not dispatched until a day or two before, and it being a bank holiday on the 10th, the Royal Mail and many postal services will likely be running a reduce service, if they're running at all. It being the Easter weekend, and with the following Monday also being a bank holiday, if you ordered a physical copy and it hasn't arrived on Saturday (which I imagine will be even busier than usual because of the load it's having to carry from Friday), there's a fair chance that you won't get the game until the following Tuesday, as most brick-and-mortar stores would likely only be open on that Saturday.

If you were to pre-order the game digitally, however, you'll be able to pre-install it and have it ready to go when you wake up on Good Friday. Like I said, an extreme example with how the timing of it shakes out, but nonetheless buying the game digitally would negate that possibility of being let down and not being able to play on launch day. 

One of the biggest reasons brick-and-mortar stores are still required by console manufacturers is for the sale of their consoles and accessories, but I would love to know if these guys have stats on the in-store vs online retailer sales of their consoles. One of the reasons cited that we can't have digital stores match the lower physical prices on the release date of a game is because there is likely an agreement for the digital storefront to not undercut the physical one, but as H-o-T mentioned, more and more brick-and-mortar stores are closing. If they have the stats for console and accessory sales and they support just selling them online or at select retailers, I wonder if we could see consoles pull out of physical storefronts entirely, and then see a fixed price of £60 across the board for AAA offerings, or them undercutting their software prices. Probably too early a thought to consider for PS5/XSX, but I imagine things will be drastically different by the time the following generation makes its way around, and I'm having a tough time thinking that they'll keep a hold of physical media from then on (though I oddly still see Nintendo sticking with it regardless). Also wonder if we could even see physical copies move to online orders moving forwards. On a personal note, I can't remember the last time I stepped into GAME or any other physical software retailer, let alone to actually purchase something, besides CeX - and that's only because I was dragged along by some of the guys from work.  

Should be interesting to see how the split changes moving to next gen if the thought of transitioning from physical to digital is clearly on the mind of so many who love to have those physical collections. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Julius