The 'Other' Wii U Thread

[ReZourceman]

I had no idea Xenoblade was Nintendo, just thought it was Nintendo exclusive. Also, Nintendo Land is all well and good, but it doesn't exactly scream franchise, or....well its just not what I mean when I say new Ninty franchise.

[Dcubed]

TBH, I think that when people are asking for a "new IP" or a "new franchise", that's not what their literally asking for (since there have been loads of new IPs this generation). Instead they're, consciously or otherwise, asking for a new series starring new characters and not only that, they refuse to accept any new characters from any team other than EAD.

 

While I believe it to be unfair to dismiss everything else that comes out of Nintendo, it's only when you are that specific that the arguments for Nintendo lacking new IPs makes any real sense (the whole, "Pikmin was the last original Nintendo game" argument).

 

For me, I don't need to cling onto a new character in order to accept a new idea/concept from EAD (because there are plenty of games in long running EAD made series that could just as easily be all new IPs, starring all new characters. In fact, that's how they work! They make original concepts and slap on the characters that fit the game - if none fit, they make an original character)

 

I can understand how others may feel differently on the matter though, even if they're not putting their point across succinctly. I do wish that the guys at EAD would get a chance to work on completely original concepts a bit more often (inside of outside an existing series) and that thy weren't so reliant on Mario to sell these concepts, but I don't just ignore all the new forms of gameplay that their sequels offer and everything that comes out of their non EAD studios.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Dcubed

[Captain Falcon]

Don't forget the next game in the Wii Sports series.

 

To the casual gamer, that is bigger than all 4 of the above unfortunately.

 

Except there is no way in the world a casual gamer who owns a couple of games per system max is going to drop a minimum of £250 for a console and another £50 on top for a game - it doesn't matter what game it is. Plus, they may already be happy with the version they have. Nintendogs on the cheap DS was one of the best selling games over a year after it came out - the 3DS version on the expensive machine had no where close to the same level of success because the device was too expensive for casuals to buy it for one game.

 

They were happy to pay £180 for a console AND a game when the times were good but now the country has gone to the dogs, there are just so many things that outrank it's significance on the list of things to buy. Even inflation adjusted, it's still just £210 which is a lot easier to swallow than £300+.

 

It would have to be a pack in at £250 to stand a chance and even then it might not be enough.

[Ramar]

TBH, I think that when people are asking for a "new IP" or a "new franchise", that's not what their literally asking for (since there have been loads of new IPs this generation). Instead they're, consciously or otherwise, asking for a new series starring new characters and not only that, they refuse to accept any new characters from any team other than EAD.

 

While I believe it to be unfair to dismiss everything else that comes out of Nintendo, it's only when you are that specific that the arguments for Nintendo lacking new IPs makes any real sense (the whole, "Pikmin was the last original Nintendo game" argument).

 

For me, I don't need to cling onto a new character in order to accept a new idea/concept from EAD (because there are plenty of games in long running EAD made series that could just as easily be all new IPs, starring all new characters. In fact, that's how they work! They make original concepts and slap on the characters that fit the game - if none fit, they make an original character)

 

I can understand how others may feel differently on the matter though, even if they're not putting their point across succinctly. I do wish that the guys at EAD would get a chance to work on completely original concepts a bit more often (inside of outside an existing series) and that thy weren't so reliant on Mario to sell these concepts, but I don't just ignore all the new forms of gameplay that their sequels offer and everything that comes out of their non EAD studios.

 

Genuine question, are you not tired of the Super Mario format? I'm not talking Galaxy, I'm talking NSMB. Even the previous two Zelda games haven't really taken the series forward. I loved Skyward Sword, but apart from finally getting the motions controls right, it still followed a format set by OoT, which says enough.

[Mr-Paul]

Great idea for creating this thread, hopefully there'll be much less Serebii and other blind fanboys spamming in it.

 

Agreed on this being a good idea for a thread. Some of the opinions being banded around in the actual Wii U Thread by certain members (I don't need to name the main culprit as we all know who it is) as fact are beginning to grate with me, especially as some seem incapable of producing an objective opinion about Nintendo as a whole, never mind the Wii U.

 

Sorry to bring this up, as there's some really really good discussion going on, but can we please try not to make this an "us" and "them" situation? Just because people haven't posted in this thread doesn't make it ok to go calling them fanboys/have invalid opinions/whatever. If this sort of thing continues, things won't get better, and there would always be this kind of culture, which shouldn't really be needed!

 

Sorry to interrupt guys, please continue!

[Captain Falcon]

Sorry to bring this up, as there's some really really good discussion going on, but can we please try not to make this an "us" and "them" situation? Just because people haven't posted in this thread doesn't make it ok to go calling them fanboys/have invalid opinions/whatever. If this sort of thing continues, things won't get better, and there would always be this kind of culture, which shouldn't really be needed!

 

Sorry to interrupt guys, please continue!

 

To be fair, the "us" and "them" was already in effect in the other thread where it was attracting a level of hostility and that's what those posts where highlighting. People aren't turning it into anything it isn't already - they were just expressing a dissatisfaction that it has come to this whilst being happy that they have a new outlet. You're right that it doesn't necessarily help matters though so indeed we all need to move on from it.

 

Still, there is a reason I avoid posting in that thread unless I know I'm talking to an open minded individual regardless of whether they are pro or anti Wii U.

[Jimbob]

The problem with the next gen of Xbox and Sony, graphically i don't see how they could be better. We've got 1080p HD at the moment, so if anything the characters in-game will be a bit smoother. Yes there will be more power, but as it's been said a new gen of consoles from these two isn't needed for a while.

 

Ninty needed the WiiU and can now compete with the others.

[Captain Falcon]

The problem with the next gen of Xbox and Sony, graphically i don't see how they could be better. We've got 1080p HD at the moment, so if anything the characters in-game will be a bit smoother. Yes there will be more power, but as it's been said a new gen of consoles from these two isn't needed for a while.

 

Ninty needed the WiiU and can now compete with the others.

 

Well, not really. You get 720p, if you're lucky, at an attempted 30fps (which inevitbaly dips or suffers massive screen tearing) and it gets upscaled to 1080p.

 

The Xbox and PS3 are creaking under the weight of recent games and something has to give. I personally believe new machines are needed, more so for the Xbox. It has a fair share of momentum even know but it's with people late to the machine who aren't the core game buying public. It's people wanting all the on demand stuff and a few Kinnect games. First party exclusives are starting to dry up and the PS3 has it beat hands down this year so it's more important for MS to get something new and unique out to get the people who are willing to spend a great deal of cash to spend it on xbox stuff. The PS3 should last until 2014 but beyond that looks doubtful.

 

At an absolute minimum, you could be seeing todays games at native 1080p60 with a good deal of AA and that will provide a nice starting point. Games will come out matching their medium/high PC settings and the industry can go on another charge. New IPs will get released, as they do at the start of machine's lives, and in the immediate future, developers won't have to spend so much time and money optimising the crap out of their game just to get it playable on the current consoles. Development will further emulate PC and everyone will be happier for it. Budgets don't have to go through the roof unless they want them too.

[Grazza]

Maybe I shouldn't post in here because I am primarily a Nintendo gamer, but a lot of people don't like negative posts and I don't like upsetting people, so here are my thoughts.

 

Like others, I strongly disliked the Wii (although I love the 3DS), but when first shown, Wii U seemed to fix everything. It had all the sticks and buttons you'd need, plus we didn't know at the time the L & R triggers weren't analogue. It also seemed plenty powerful enough (which perhaps it is). Furthermore, the Zelda demo was just fantastic, proving at least some within Nintendo still had all the right instincts.

 

Fast-forward to E3 2012... I know I can't speak for everyone, but I think it's fair to say many were expecting a much better show than it was. If they had managed a Zelda demo that good a year before, they would at least have something similarly exciting, right? Well no, unfortunately. Almost everyone agreed it was disappointing, and yet Reggie called the demands of gamers "insatiable". Rather than be offended, it made me wonder if Nintendo just don't "get" it.

 

See, I wonder if Nintendo as a company is too calm and rational nowadays. It may sound a funny thing to say, but I think they're basing their strategy on past successes, which does sound sensible but the Wii was a one-off. It seems to me like they've thought to themselves "Motion control sold well so let's come up with something - anything - as long as it's another innovation"; "Wii Sports was a phenomenon so let's make another Mii game like it"; and "New Super Mario Bros is a guaranteed success - that's the most important thing to have at launch". Like I say, all that might sound logical, but did they ask themselves if any of that was genuinely exciting?

 

Nintendo have been at their best when they knew they had a great idea - a 3-day time travel experience or a vast ocean to sail. The trouble with stuff like Mii games and NSMB is that they depend on trends and don't arouse passion. Neither were going to make many people want a £300 console at launch.

 

Despite all this, I genuinely believe the Wii U could be a brilliant console! It could be as good as the GameCube. Who knows? It's all potential. Whilst I do believe Nintendo are making better machines than they were five years ago, I probably have less faith in their software than ever. Sorry, but Skyward Sword just didn't seem right to me.

 

As others have said, Sony and Microsoft will probably unveil their consoles at E3 next year, so Nintendo will need all their best games to counter that. Some may expect to see Metroid, Zelda and a 3D Mario (if the latter is still as exciting as it once was?) Personally, I wouldn't be too surprised if it turns out to be another disappointment...

Edited December 17, 2012 by Grazza

[Cube]

Instead they're, consciously or otherwise, asking for a new series starring new characters and not only that, they refuse to accept any new characters from any team other than EAD.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone would accept a new franchise from Retro.

[are1981]

It is sad that it even was a demand for such a thread like this. But since it was, it is good if people can be more open and less hostile here.

[ReZourceman]

(Which new franchises from Nintendo have there been since Pikmin?)

[Mr-Paul]

(Which new franchises from Nintendo have there been since Pikmin?)

 

(Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc. Nintendogs, Brain Training, Prof Layton.)

 

(Don't know why we're using brackets. Or if we count Xenoblade etc. They're not really franchises.)

[Dcubed]

Genuine question, are you not tired of the Super Mario format? I'm not talking Galaxy, I'm talking NSMB. Even the previous two Zelda games haven't really taken the series forward. I loved Skyward Sword, but apart from finally getting the motions controls right, it still followed a format set by OoT, which says enough.

 

Well to start off with, you've already ignored the existence of two Zelda games (which were radically different in terms of controls and game structure/level design and puzzle design)

 

Secondly, the "OoT format" (which is actually the ALTTP format to be nit picky), has only actually been used by 3 games in the series (namely ALTTP, OoT and Twilight Princess - you can also sort of count Wind Waker, but it abandons the structure after the first 3 dungeons)

 

In addition to 1-1 motion controls, Skyward Sword abandoned the open world design and level design format that has defined the series ever since the first ever Zelda game. Dungeons and overworld are no longer seperate, enemies are now puzzles in unto themselves and the level designs are designed with multiple uses in mind, backtracking or otherwise (hell you don't even necessarily use the dungeon's specific item to kill the boss anymore!) It was absolutely original. I can't see how anyone can look at Skyward Sword and say that it's just another OoT clone

 

I'm pretty sure everyone would accept a new franchise from Retro.

 

Nah, you still have people going around believing that Retro is separate from Nintendo. Same applies to Monolith (hell you can see it in this very thread, on this page even - and that's regarding an actual completely original new IP to boot!)

[Jonnas]

Skyward Sword [...] followed a format set by OoT.

 

I know I've always said that Skyward Sword resembles OoT a lot, but I'll have to disagree with this. OoT is a rather open world that lets you explore at your own pace, Skyward Sword is much more linear and segmented than that (if anything, it's a format started by Twilight Princess, which was the first Zelda to embrace this kind of design).

 

That said, maybe I'm splitting hairs. The "dungeon" system is still there, after all. That format was set by the original and Link to the Past, and needs shaking up. Majora's Mask came the closest.

 

EDIT: Ninja'd. Of course.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Jonnas

[Cube]

(Which new franchises from Nintendo have there been since Pikmin?)

 

2001

 

Geist

Odama

Wii Series

Endless Ocean

Disaster: Day of Crisis

Captain Rainbow

FlingSmash

Fluidity/Hydrophobia

WarioWare

Polarium

Meteos

Another Code

Nintendogs

Electroplankton

Training Series

Actionloop

Big Brain Academy

Elite Beat Agents

Hotel Dusk

Trauma Center

Art Academy

Various DSiWare Puzzle games

Steel Diver

Spirit Camera

Freakyforms

Pullblox

 

 

 

Although I don't think all of them are completely owned by Nintendo, I think the majority are.

[Jonnas]

(Don't know why we're using brackets. Or if we count Xenoblade etc. They're not really franchises.)

(It's a ReZ thing)

 

(Xenoblade definitely counts. If Golden Sun and Fire Emblem count, so does that)

[Dcubed]

2001

 

Geist

Odama

Wii Series

Endless Ocean

Disaster: Day of Crisis

Captain Rainbow

FlingSmash

Fluidity/Hydrophobia

WarioWare

Polarium

Meteos

Another Code

Nintendogs

Electroplankton

Training Series

Actionloop

Big Brain Academy

Elite Beat Agents

Hotel Dusk

Trauma Center

Art Academy

Various DSiWare Puzzle games

Steel Diver

Spirit Camera

Freakyforms

Pullblox

 

 

 

Although I don't think all of them are completely owned by Nintendo, I think the majority are.

 

That list is far from complete even! In fact, there were 9 new IPs released in the last year in Europe alone!

 

Nov 2011-Dec 2012

 

Freakyforms

Pullblox

Hana Samurai

Dillon's Rolling Western

Nintendo Land

Pandora's Tower

The Last Story

Potzol's Puzzle

The Denpa Men

 

 

For 2013, we already have Harmo Knight, The Wonderful 101 and Sing Party coming to Europe in the first few months (but of course, they "don't count" because they're not coming from EAD...

Edited December 18, 2012 by Dcubed

[Mr-Paul]

(It's a ReZ thing)

 

(Xenoblade definitely counts. If Golden Sun and Fire Emblem count, so does that)

 

(I was counting franchise as a series, having had more than one game released.)

 

(But still, they're all good games that Nintendo need.)

 

(I don't really know that, never played Xenoblade, but you get my point. More different games with effort put into them = win.)

[Captain Falcon]

(It's a ReZ thing)

 

(Xenoblade definitely counts. If Golden Sun and Fire Emblem count, so does that)

 

I think the doubt centers around the matter of whether one game constitues a franchise or just a standalone game. It doesn't seem likely that it would ever be returned to. Plus, the game was in development before the Wii was even released and then Nintendo bought Monolift Soft acquiring the IP in the process - it wasn't born in house, regardless of which internal team it may be.

 

And whilst Golden Sun was the idea of the Takahashi brothers, it was a Nintendo IP's from the get go under the publishing agreement which falls into a murky area of whether you want to attribute the IP to Nintendo when talking about creation.

 

Fire Emblem is all Nintendo though - no doubts there.

[Dcubed]

I think the doubt centers around the matter of whether one game constitues a franchise or just a standalone game. It doesn't seem likely that it would ever be returned to. Plus, the game was in development before the Wii was even released and then Nintendo bought Monolift Soft acquiring the IP in the process - it wasn't born in house, regardless of which internal team it may be.

 

And whilst Golden Sun was the idea of the Takahashi brothers, it was a Nintendo IP's from the get go under the publishing agreement which falls into a murky area of whether you want to attribute the IP to Nintendo when talking about creation.

 

Fire Emblem is all Nintendo though - no doubts there.

 

You're thinking of Disaster Day of Crisis, not Xenoblade (and it was always a Monolith/SPD co-production anyway, so either way it was always a Nintendo owned and co-developed IP, just like Golden Sun)

 

As for people only being interested in a game if it has a sequel (I.e, the "it's not a franchise" excuse), I don't think it holds water. The likes of Rhythm Heaven, Denpa Men, Pullblox and Chibi Robo aren't counted by these people, despite having numerous sequels in each respective series.

 

No, I think that to make these people happy, it has to meet four criteria or else it "doesn't count".

 

1: It must be a character driven game (and all characters in the game must be completely original) - So the different Wii____ series, Nintendogs, Big Brain Academy and Steel Diver don't count...

 

2: It must be released worldwide with a big marketing push - So Another Code, Disaster DOC and Tomodachi Collection don't count...

 

3: It must be released at retail (download games aren't "real" games supposedly...)

 

4: It must be developed by EAD/Miyamoto. Nobody else exists at Nintendo...

Edited December 18, 2012 by Dcubed

[Jonnas]

[rant incoming]

I just noticed: Cube's list is actually missing Golden Sun. Funny that.

Coupled with ReZ asking specifically about Pikmin, it got me thinking that the All-Star Mode in Super Smash Bros. Brawl may partially be to blame for this perception that there have been no new IPs since Pikmin. Nevermind that plenty of new franchises appear elsewhere throughout the game (some of which were Assist Trophy due to popularity), Sakurai still had the gall to say Pikmin was the last in the official site. Funny that.

[/rant]

 

(I was counting franchise as a series, having had more than one game released.)

 

I think the doubt centers around the matter of whether one game constitues a franchise or just a standalone game. It doesn't seem likely that it would ever be returned to.

 

Well, the theme of the conversation was about new "IPs", and I was using "franchise" as a substitute for that term. If a franchise doesn't count as such with just the first entry, I don't see the point in asking for new IPs in the first place, so I think standalone games should definitely count.

[Hero-of-Time]

Despite all this, I genuinely believe the Wii U could be a brilliant console! It could be as good as the GameCube.

 

I was thinking the same but probably not in the way you mean though. I mentioned this to either Lost or Kav while playing CoD the other day that if Nintendo fail to capture the casual market then we could be looking at a Cube situation in terms of sales.

 

A lot of gamers have moved on to other consoles as have their friends. PSN and Live have communities built within them, with many people buying either a PS3 or Xbox for the sole reason of that their friends have one. I think that the days are gone where youth go around each others houses to play games. It may happen on occasion but for the majority of the time I think they just meet up via the internet. I know this is certainly the case with my nieces and nephews when playing with their friends who all game on their 360's.

 

Of course a kick up the backside to a company does wonders for the games that get created. I've always thought that when Nintendo are backed up against the wall they deliver some of their best gaming experiences. I've seen the same this generation with Sony, whose 1st party output has been great.

 

In terms of the Wii U i'm feeling very meh about it at the moment. I was always going to buy one because it has Monster Hunter on it, but the system itself just seems rushed.

 

The OS is slow by todays standards, the online is quite frankly a baby step away from what the Wii provided and then there are the freezing issues and loading times with games.

 

Online is a MASSIVE part of gaming now and there is simply no excuse for Nintendo to have their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. Not being able to chat to people while playing online is a joke ( Sega Racing ). No party chat feature is annoying, hell even the Vita has this! Not being able to access messages and see what people are playing while playing something like CoD. If you want to invite someone to play online with something like CoD then you can't unless they are actually playing the same game.

 

People will say that it's up to the 3rd parties to support these features, but I personally blame Nintendo. If their OS had these things implemented in the first place then the work has already been done for the 3rd parties. Nintendo has had 7+ years of watching the other consoles online systems evolve, yet outside of a twitter/facebook feature they have brought nothing to the table.

 

Before Nintendo launched the Wii U they claimed they wanted to get the core back, I assume they meant people who used to play Nintendo but now play on the rival consoles. To do this they need to embrace online gaming. Problem is at this point I think it's far too late and like I said earlier, people have moved on and built friendships on the other systems.

 

It's still VERY early days but I do think that the success of the Wii U hinges on whether or not the casual market picks it up.

[Cube]

I just noticed: Cube's list is actually missing Golden Sun. Funny that.

 

It came out a couple of months before Pikmin.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Well, the theme of the conversation was about new "IPs", and I was using "franchise" as a substitute for that term. If a franchise doesn't count as such with just the first entry, I don't see the point in asking for new IPs in the first place, so I think standalone games should definitely count.

 

I think it's very easy to understand what people are getting at/want:

 

A "proper" (no minigame/partygame collections) new singleplayer IP developed by Nintendo EAD. Unlike other companies, Nintendo games have a particular feel associated with them and that's what people click with. Xenoblade, Golden Sun or Fire Emblem aren't "Nintendo" games (Xenoblade feels exactly like Xenogears, Golden Sun feels like Chrono Trigger/Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest and Fire Emblem feels like Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre). Nintendo owns these games, yes, but they don't feel like Nintendo games. EAD, Retro and HAL are the subsidiaries that captures the feel of "Nintendo" games. And ever since launching Pikmin none of them has brought any major new (and COMPLETELY ORIGINAL) IPs to the table. So that's what's missing. That's what people want. That "Nintendo" feel, on something completely new. And NO, Steel Diver doesn't count.

 

Edit - Just realized I made this exact same post 2 months ago. Lol, am phail.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Oxigen_Waste