bob Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Would you rather you won all your remaining games (or whatever) and qualified, and Trap stayed, or don't qualify and they fire him?
Mokong Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Would you rather you won all your remaining games (or whatever) and qualified, and Trap stayed, or don't qualify and they fire him? I would prefer if we could win all our remaining games of course. But I really don't think that is acheiveable with Trap in charge. After the mess that happened at Euro2012 and his tactics and team selections were exposed for their short comings he promised come the World Cup Qualification games he would make changes to improve the way we play and teh team that plays. So far the only changes he's made have been cause of some players retiring and recently due to injuries. When players like Given and Duff said they would retire from Internationals Trap actually tried to change their minds and get them to come back. If he had a fully fit team and no retirements he'd still be playing the same team that did so poorly in Euro2012. He also doesn't fully scout players. He does not go to England and actually watch games that his players are or go to look at new prospects. When Ireland have no games he goes to his home in Italy and stays there till the next game. He sends people to go watch games for him, that's not right for an international manager to never or very rarely actually go and watch players live. He doesn't pick players based on their current form and how they are playing now, he picks them based on the ones whose names he is familiar with. That is the only explaination I can think of for how the likes of Darren O'Dea from Toronto FC can get into the starting line up over someone like Ciaran Clark from Aston Villa. It is quite clear Robbie Keane is past his high point in his career, he's no longer the player he once was, sure he's doing ok in LA Galaxy but the quality of players he plays and scores against there isn't great. But Keane starts and the likes of Shane Long sits on the bench when he is playing regular Premiership games. And even if Keane is injured does Long get a look in then? No Trap gives the start to Simon Cox playing in the championship. Even go back to the Euro2012 squad he calls in Paul Green a guy who at the time had NO club and wasn't playing for anyone and leaves other more quailfied defenders who play were playing for Prem teams at home. His handling of players and communication is sub par also. And somehow keeps falling out with players, particularly the younger players that he should be encouraging me. Like in one of our friendlies few months back (think the Oman one) he dropped Shane Long from teh squad said Long was injured. Long himself afterwards that he wasn't injured. Trap then called Long an "idiot" to the press and said he knew Long was injured. I think teh player himself knows if he's hurting or not and even then you don't publicly call your players idiots. (That's only one example) IF, and it's a big if, he does make the changes needed to qualify I'll will say sorry but I don't think he will. If he somehow manages to qualify still playing the players and tactics he does I can imagine Brazil 2014 going the same as Euro2012
bob Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Fair enough. I only asked because you said: Can only hope in our next 2 games which are Friendlies with Greece and Poland before our next qualifier with Sweden in March go so badly the FAI see they made a mistake. Made it sounds like you wanted them to lose! Thought that didn't sound like you! Then i realised you said you wanted the friendlies to go wrong and not the Sweden game. My mistake.
dazzybee Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 But there's a difference between wanting to lose in friendlies to make the necessary changes to win the competitive games, than losing the competitive games to get him out.
bob Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Well yes, losing the competitive games would help rid them of Trap sooner probably, but they wouldn't qualify, which is why i asked which X-C would prefer. Either way, Trap seems pretty clueless.
Mokong Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Of course I don't want him to lose the competitive games as a means to get him out, that would mean not just getting rid of him but also not qualifying. But I fear we will lose them and more likely to lose them with Trap. I also do not want them to lose the friendlies either, I hate seeing Ireland lose whatever the match but at least losing the friendlies won't effect the qualification standings. I would have prefered if they had sacked him now as that would give a nice amount of time to find a new manager who would do the job properly and prepare for the next set of qualifiers starting in March....keeping him on now will lead to one of 2 things, 1: we end up having a very poor remainder of qualifiying games and don't qualify or 2: we somehow scrap into 2nd place and maybe win the play-off and then get made total shows of in Brazil like we were in Poland. Trap seems to think Qualifying is all he has to do, it was evident from what happened at Euro2012 that he doesn't have any ambition beyond just qualifying. And the same would happen if he somehow got us to Brazil. I don't want to just see Ireland qualify I want to see them get AND do well. Granted at Euro2012 it was a tough as nails group, even with the players I consider better than those Trap picks playing, maybe we still wouldn't have made it out of the group. But we would have at least put in better performances and given Croatia, Spain and Italy some work to do. When he selected the team to go to the Euros he left out a lot of good young players who were getting regular games at their club. His excuse was he wanted to bring the players that played during qualification cause they were the ones that got them there. Fair enough but he ignored the fact that some of those players forms had dipped on the way to the club season finishing and other new players were showing they might be worth more than the ones he put so much stock in....players who were playing in the Championship (or MLS) or not regular starters at their clubs (and as mentioned one with no club at all) In qualifying for Euro2012 fans were near on begging him to give James McClean from Sunderland a go as he was doing very well at his club. Trap ignored him. Finally he did eventually name him in the Euro2012 squad only to later say at a presser in Poland "I have no plans to play McClean because he doesn't have enough experience at this level" (not exact words but words to that effect). Well A: If he didn't have enough experience there's only one person to blame for that, Trap himself, who never gave James the expereince or chances and B: A manager should never say things like that publicly. It's basically saying to McClean "I only brought you to get the press off my back, I don;t actually want you here at all" That is not the sign of a professional manager. Go back to teh Germany game, afterwards he said "we can never hope to compete with the likes of Germany, they will win the group we will fight for 2nd place" Again that is a backwards thing for a manager to say. Pretty saying he didn't care about the german game and pretty much planned to lose it (albiet likely not as bad as we did). I'm not saying I think Ireland are better than Germany, of course Germany are a far better team but I at least expect Ireland to give them a good game and to try to win the game. Especially as that game was in Dublin. Football is a funny game and sometimes on the day the lower ranked team can cause an upset. His statement also shows he expects Germany to have a 100% record, he said he wants to compete with Sweden and Austria for 2nd place. Well Germany are now 4 games in and don't have a 100% win record, Sweden took points off them and they are very much in contention for fighting for 1st place never mind 2nd. Sweden should a great never give up spirit and fight back when 4-0 down to Germany. Ireland used to show that same fighting spirit, Trap has taken it away, he was content to let Germany walk all over us. Is a possible fight with Germany for 2nd place in his plans? Or if that happened would he be happy to let Germany take 2nd say we can't compete and should be happy with 3rd or 4th? His tactics too are disgracefull. He keeps making them play the long ball, get the ball and hoof it towards the goal and hope it falls right. 9 times out of 10 the defenders of teh other team win the ball and then start passing and moving it up the field. You can see it in the players, they rarely actually look for the ball. If there's a free kick in our half they leave the ball there and walk away waiting for someone to just kick it forward. No hint of just taking a short free, pass the ball around a bit and make the opposition work to try get it back. They actually did do a bit of possesion play in the 2nd half against the Faroes and it look good and great to see. When asked about this after the match Trap said, it is ok to play like this when you are winning and against a team like Faroe Islands? What does that even mean? It things like this that shows to me that he himself has no real confidence in the team and players and again that is not a quality a manager should have. Lol, didn't mean to go into another long rant, but yeah you prolly expect that from me anyway, haha Premiership is back the weekend, lets enjoy that Edited October 18, 2012 by Mokong
bob Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 To be fair, he does have Statistics, and History on his side regarding the Germany issue. Did you know that Germany have only lost TWO games in qualifying for World Cups........ever?! TWO?!?! TWO!
Mokong Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Still a draw would have been a great result for us. I'd rather they try play for a win and get a draw then just show up expecting to lose, which is what they seemed to do. I like to be an optimist and hope for a win no matter the odds, as I said football can bring some odd looking results sometimes but I don't think a draw would have been that far beyond us... had the management done its job. Hell I would have been happy with a 1-0 or 2-0 loss and a good performance against Germany, so long as they actually tried to go for it instead of rolling over and giving up once Germany got 1 goal like they did. Edited October 18, 2012 by Mokong
bob Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Agreed, i just thought then was a good time to bring up the Germany fact, which is pretty incredible.
MadDog Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 He's got an unreal cv. 7 Italian league titles, German title, Portuguese title, European cups. I thought it was a great achievement he got ireland to the euro's at all. Another thing mokong. You bring up that he should pick players on form, and not on name, yet you argue that one of the reasons Clark should start is because he plays for Villa (who are awful atm). I think you should be more realistic and understanding. Ireland aren't blessed with tons of talent, and a change of manager might change the philosophy and how you play, but will ultimately not change results hardly.
Mokong Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 (edited) Another thing mokong. You bring up that he should pick players on form, and not on name, yet you argue that one of the reasons Clark should start is because he plays for Villa (who are awful atm). I was using Clark as an example as he was sitting on the bench the last two games. And is a straight positional swap for O'Dea at Centre Back. I could have said Stephen Kelly from Fulham but he's more a Right Back, I don't know if he's ever played/can play Centre Back. (Trap also has a habit of playing players out of the their regular positions which can be very unconfortable for some players not used to switch positions) But yeah I would consider Clark to be more "on form" than O'Dea. True Villa aren't the best of form at the moment, generally they tend to be mid tabel at best anyway. But my point was I'd give a higher rating to a player who is regularly playing Premiership football even if they were fighting relegation over a player who is playing at the bottom of the MLS a league that I would rate bout somewhere between League One and Championship football. Put it this way, and taking names out of it, imagine this was the England team and for whatever reasons say you had only two choices for a centre back to take the 2nd CB spot in the starting line up. One player who is on a team 19th out of 19 in the MLS and another who is on a team 15th out of 20 in the Premiership. Which player would think is more "match fit" and qualified to get that starting place for an international? Lets face it the only reason European players go there (MLS) is to get an extra fat pay cheque before ending their career. Go back to Robbie Keane, he's a perfect example of a player Trap will pick on name alone no matter what form he is in. Don't get me wrong I have a great deal of respect for Robbie and what he was done and achieved in a green shirt in the past but there comes a time sad as it may be for every player when you just have to say your best days are behind you. Robbie didn't play in the German game cause he was injured. But Trap played him in the Faroes game cause he was under pressure after the German game and Keane was his "go to guy"...but you could see Keane wasn't 100% fit, I was worried he'd end up injuring himself further. He did the same with Richard Dunne at Euro 2012, wasn't 100% fit but still used him cause Trap doesn't seem to like changing the line up if he can help it. What happened, Dunne aggrivated his injury and still hasn't played a game yet this season. Yet other players like the Shane Long example I mentioned previously if Trap thinks he's injured but the player says he's not Trap just calls him an idiot and leaves him out. I know we don't have a lot of massively talented players to call on. But I (and the rest of the fans) just want to see the better ones be first choice. That plus a change in tactics to get players more comfortable and capable of passing rather than long balls. I'm not expecting miracles and saying this would mean we'd be 100% gonna win everything, but it would certainly give us a better chance. EDIT: At the end of the day I would actually like to be wrong on my views of Trap, I'd love for him to prove me wrong because I do still hope we can qualify for Brazil 2014 (and hopefully be able to actually compete at it too) But as I said I find it har to see that without some real change and Trap doesn't appear to be a man who likes to change. Edited October 18, 2012 by Mokong
Fierce_LiNk Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Some of the scenes from the Leeds game yesterday was unreal. If they don't receive some sort of hefty punishment, then there is no hope for the sport. Poor security, too. Also, have to lol at Chelsea saying that they'll keep John Terry on as captain. They've given him a heavy fine and say that's enough. The Spurs/Chelsea game is crazy at the moment. Could finish 6-6.
jayseven Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Video of the incident (ignore the commentary) Rather shocking that it happened at all. Clearly the crowd were out of control - you can se a steward wander into view in that video, and he simply doesn't know what to do. Mad. I'm sure they'll be allowed a lot less seats for teh same fixture next season.
Emerald Emblem Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 The difference the international break makes. Only heard updates but to hear we only tested Ruddy from the 86th minute begs the question, what went wrong today? Were Norwich actually great defensively or was the Arsenal team just really poor?
Mr-Paul Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 No excuses, we were shit. City, Chelsea and United all won from losing positions, we couldn't. Poor performance. And I have no idea why the Arsenal squad flew from Luton to Norwich - 14 minute flight. Stupid. Waste of money.
Ramar Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Fucking abysmal. I've done 3 aways this season, yet to see a win. FML.
Ellmeister Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Touché We should have got the double against you last season bar yet more dodgy refereeing (need goal line tech), same with 5-1, dodgy decisions cost us and you picked us off brilliantly. We'll see. I'm happy to say I'm confident we'll beat you comfortably as long as we're both happy enough to be gloated to Sweet sweet victory. Suck it Dazzybee.
dazzybee Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Sweet sweet victory. Suck it Dazzybee. Fair enough. Bale having to leave just before kick off didn't help us - Dempesy and Sigg just aren't good enough yet. And our defence was shambolic. But you played some good football (Even though we had over twice as many chances). Still think we would have beaten you if Dembele and Bale were playing What's funny. If QPR beat Everton 3-0, then we'll move to 4th. We'll be higher in the league after losing 4-2 than when we started COME ON QPR!!!
ipaul Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 My immediate thoughts on the Tyne/Wear derby: JAMMY MACKEM C@£$!!!!!!!!! F@£$@$%£$^£^£$%^ =(
Fierce_LiNk Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Can't believe Sunderland got a point. From what I heard, they didn't do anything with the ball. I'm happy with yesterday's result, and particularly enjoyed how the front four of Valencia, Welbeck, Rooney and Van Persie all linked up. Defensively, we look so poor, especially on crosses. De Gea should have claimed the ball that led to the first goal. Gutted that City managed to score twice. Would have made it a better day!
Ellmeister Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Fair enough. Bale having to leave just before kick off didn't help us - Dempesy and Sigg just aren't good enough yet. And our defence was shambolic. But you played some good football (Even though we had over twice as many chances). Still think we would have beaten you if Dembele and Bale were playing What's funny. If QPR beat Everton 3-0, then we'll move to 4th. We'll be higher in the league after losing 4-2 than when we started COME ON QPR!!! I hate Bale for having turned into such a diver, but I was incredibly glad he didn't play yesterday. Hope all went well with his child!
Caris Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Mark Atkinson is a massive cunt, no way Tiote should have got sent off.
Nintendohnut Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 It was studs up, after the ball had gone, and if his foot had been planted it would've broken his leg. I think it was the right decision. And Alan Shearer just said the same on MOTD2, tbf.
Dog-amoto Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20022190 Not sure how I feel about this. It's a bit of a gamble going for someone so untested and inexperienced, but I suppose you never know. And I'm not sure I'd want an old, tired face like Mick McCarthy who has failed at so many other clubs. From another (very honest) standpoint though, I'm not sure why Freedman would be interested in us. It's more of a sideways move considering we have been punching way above our weight for the past 10 years under Allardyce. We did the same thing to Owen Coyle when he was at Burnley and look how that turned out for him.
Fierce_LiNk Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20022190 Not sure how I feel about this. It's a bit of a gamble going for someone so untested and inexperienced, but I suppose you never know. And I'm not sure I'd want an old, tired face like Mick McCarthy who has failed at so many other clubs. From another (very honest) standpoint though, I'm not sure why Freedman would be interested in us. It's more of a sideways move considering we have been punching way above our weight for the past 10 years under Allardyce. We did the same thing to Owen Coyle when he was at Burnley and look how that turned out for him. In situations like this, I'm always surprised when managers do move on. He's doing a good job where he is, and sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I'm not sure he'd be the right fit for Bolton. But then, I don't really know who would be. I was certain Owen Coyle would have done well there.
Recommended Posts