An Open Letter From Kurtle

[Ashley]

He sent me this Thursday morning but a combination of being busy and begrudging bringing up the past led to it not being posted today (although I did inform RA about what was said about her).

 

Anyway here it is.

 

An Open Letter of Apology to N-Europe Forums

 

First of all, I’d like to make it clear that I am not writing this in order to be de-banned or whatever, I am writing this because I know I acted stupidly and rashly, and because I regret how I acted; that’s not to say I wouldn’t appreciate being allowed back, but that’s not what this is about.

 

I would write a list of names of people I have directly offended and apologise individually, but I fear that it would become a jumbled mess.

 

There is one person who I would like to apologise to directly and publicly however, and that is Ashley; who I insulted unfairly and vulgarly merely over a verbal warning. I feel absolutely awful about how I reacted, and though I’m not trying to make excuses, I wasn’t myself after reading yet another “no-wonder no-one likes you” post. It’s easy to press a few keys and press enter, and I lashed out on Ashley unfairly, unjustly and without any thought whatsoever. I then went insane publicly with a “goodbye” thread.

 

I’d also like to apologise to Hannah (Raining) directly, if only because she used to like me and we seemed to get along well a few years ago.

 

Over the past week or so I seemed to have annoyed people more than usual; both justly annoyed, and seemingly people who’re just fed up with me, even to the extent of being accused of trolling, an act of which I have never taken part in during my time on the Forums. This is especially confusing to me concerning my “Mr Kipling comment”; a comment I would have made in everyday life under the same circumstances, and which may or may not have lead to a discussion on the quality of confectionary. Yet on the forums it was apparently taken as some trolling exercise, which it was never intended to be, but was pounced upon by multiple people. I have no idea what tone was assumed I intended.

 

Although I’m going off track from an apology, while I’m on the subject of being confused, or not understanding things I’d like to say I’ve felt rather attacked over such things. I also need to get some things off my chest.

 

It feels as though because I seemingly can’t always see things from another angle immediately that I’ve been treated and attacked as some sort of wilfully ignorant bigot. That’s not to say that over the past week especially I haven’t said stupid things, but there are people who have treated me as a person concerning some of those comments and attitudes (namely a certain Danish bloke), though in my opinion, more people who haven’t.

 

Despite what many may think, I can take criticism, but it has to be accurate, specific and most importantly, constructive – types I have welcomed and absorbed from people on the site. I don’t take kindly to straw-man arguments and certainly not to “No wonder you’re single” comments, which simply exacerbate my disapproving feelings towards me, and to those who posted them. When people have a problem I’d like them to talk to me about it properly, not start insulting me: I am a human being, I have feeling and emotions (which can often get the better of me), despite my often cut-throat attitudes.

 

I also don’t appreciate receiving a referral for insults, only to be insulted by the same mod/admin when I’m gone.

 

Despite what many seem to believe, I have taken into consideration all kind advice which has been given to me, and do appreciate all constructive input. I’ve only disagreed/seemed to brush advice aside because I’m me, not everyone is the same and a lot of suggestions just don’t fit when it comes to myself.

 

I woke up this morning with a MUCH fresher attitude than the one I went to bed with last night, or even all week: I woke up and immediately thought this letter was a requirement.

 

I do worry what people must think of me; I was out of line a lot of the time and I’m afraid that the line of right and wrong can often be a thin, wiggly and hard to see at times; and I often stand on top of it. I only began reposting on the forums because I believed I had mellowed; I disappeared a few years ago as I felt I was becoming someone I didn’t like (as well as my disagreement with censorship), and now it seems like the forums brought out the worst in me, and I wasn’t completely aware of it. I actually held my tongue more than would be realised when I felt offended by people’s posts though; especially those about me.

 

I hope this apology is recognised as sincere. I don’t do false apologies and often feel disappointed with people who seem to do so due to public pressure. I do hope that someday everyone can put this behind them; I just want a fresh start.

 

I started re-posting on the site in order to socialise outside of my usual circle and to be able to get into discussions. I didn’t want to get into flame wars, upset people or anything else; I certainly wasn’t there to troll. What I became was completely out of character and I’ve learned I need to keep more of an eye on my attitudes and how I treat people online.

 

I would appreciate being allowed back onto the forums, but would understand if I wasn’t. I feel quite ashamed and would be worried about “showing my face” around there for a while anyway. I just wanted to make friends and talk about things; I didn’t want things to get so out of hand.

 

My apologies to everyone,

Kurt(le)

 

He won't be unbanned. We never planned to ban him in the first place. I gave him an infraction on Wednesday morning for once again posting a response to someone that was simply a picture of someone sticking their fingers up. I then went out for the day only to return home to find the Nazi thread (seriously, why is it people on the Internet can't think of a different dictator?) and the fact he'd been spamming the main site too in spite of being told to email me.

 

He was banned (by someone else because I was away) for that, for his completely over the top reaction to getting an infraction, which at the end of the day is a rap (wrap?) on the knuckles, and for being so inflammatory in public on both the site and the forum after repeatedly being told the best avenue to discuss it.

 

I could respond to more of this but I won't. There's no point in drudging it all up again and frankly he's gone. Let the past be the past and move on.

 

Also I may very quickly lock this thread. We'll see how it goes but his word is out there like he requested.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Ashley

[Happenstance]

Glad to see he won't be back as that's just a nothing apology to me. He can try and justify his posting style all he likes but it was constantly negative and sometimes over the line. I wont miss him.

[nightwolf]

I suppose regardless, it's nice to see that this individual took on advice people have given and now feels better for it.

 

Which at the start was what we all had hoped to do!

 

It's a shame he won't be allowed back on the forums, but then he shouldn't have acted the way he did in the first place, we all know it's all too easy to get wound up by things on here and other sites, but it doesn't mean we all act the way that he did.

 

Good luck to him anyway.

[EEVILMURRAY]

"Pull your tongue out of my arse Kurtle. Dogs do that."

 

 

Sowwie.

 

 

I also don’t appreciate receiving a referral for insults, only to be insulted by the same mod/admin when I’m gone.

So he's been watching us since. Who is he talking about? :S

[Beast]

I've always liked Kurtle but I can't deny it and say that I didn't lose a little bit of respect for him because I had...just a bit. The thing that really bugged me was the fact that we were all helping him and weren't being funny or insulting and he took on that attitude. I can't stand people like that. What I said afterwards was not meant to be in a hurtful way but in a truthful way, nobody likes someone with a bad attitude.

 

While he has learned his lesson and he became the bigger man and admitted he was wrong and apologised, he still did it when there was no need to. It's just awfully sad when you try to help someone and you get nastiness back but at least he had the guts to apologise and admit he was wrong so for that, he's gained a little bit of that lost respect back.

 

I say good luck to you Kurtle and I hope someday you do find someone.

[Ashley]

So he's been watching us since. Who is he talking about? :S

 

I assume me but I can't say definitely. Whoever it is, as I've said, it's in the past.

[jayseven]

It feels as though because I seemingly can’t always see things from another angle immediately that I’ve been treated and attacked as some sort of wilfully ignorant bigot.

 

This.

 

I like to think I have a lot of patience, but surely if one is aware of their own ineptitude when it comes to seeing the full picture on a matter, they should at least try to acknowledge it when putting across their 'opinion,' especially when he claims that he welcomes constructive criticism.

 

Here's a tip if you're reading; if you wilfully post bigoted ignorance (which you did, repeatedly), you're going to get people calling you up on it. If you choose to ignore any of the replies, choose to not see the constructive element of the criticism you received and instead focus on the fact that you're being criticised, then you're never going to get on well with... well, you can finish that.

 

Shame Kurtle over-reacted, but his behaviour after the infraction (especially the main-site comments page nonsense) is too childish to even be bothered with.

[mcj metroid]

Wow.. people take the internet way too seriously..

 

[Jimbob]

Yeah, he lost it a bit to be honest. Wasn't around to see his "threads", and missed out on his final insult thread before the lock came into effect. He started out alright, then quickly turned into what i can only describe as a git. Hope he sorts out what is bothering him, finds someone to share his life with. Won't be missed by many though, serves him right to get banned.

 

Oh well,

[ipaul]

People are taking this far too seriously. He has been banned from an internet forum not sentenced to a public stoning...

 

Serious business indeed

[Ville]

Well, he surely did make some mistakes, but don't we all...he's just learning the hard way. Shooting from the hip is very good, but you just need to tone it down a bit...

 

I'm all for forgiveness. After all, if he can't behave, just kick him out again! Still, a time-out might be beneficial for him as well, who knows...Anyway, I think he's an ok guy, but just a bit frustrated. That's what you wanna work on Kurt, getting to the core of what really bothers you, in you and your own life. Then figure out what you really want from yourself and your life, and start going into that direction! Not lashing out at others, but doing something about your own problems!

 

Anyway, take care and start kicking that problem ass, man!

Edited August 7, 2011 by Ville

[Raining_again]

If you think its taken too seriously, why post? Just ignore the thread...? Kurtle asked for it to be posted and Ash was good enough to do it. If you havent got anything useful to say what's the point, eh?

 

*ahem*

 

I hope Kurtle finds happiness, t'was a shame the way it was left. I'm not taking back anything I said because I was only being honest.. we're here for a pitiful amount of time and there's no point being miserable... you take what you have and run with it, and try and be happy. And I can certainly testify as someone who doesn't always have it easy... or whatever... but I try my best to be happy.. Spending time with miserable people isn't good for anybody.

 

oh yeah, and it was very decent of you to respond in an adult manner, and I don't really hate you either.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Raining_again

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I applaud you, Kurtle. You have acknowledged your errors and will hopefully try to improve on them, something which is commendable and all too rarely seen, unfortunately.

 

You never struck me as a bad person; indeed, the behaviour which led to your ban seemed almost of character for you. What I did see in you was myself from not more than a year ago: a guy with crumbling self-esteem bordering on self-loathing. When you first started posting about your worries, I really wanted to help, and while it's naturally hard to change one's perception of the world and particularly oneself, I believe it was the seemingly outright dismissal of much of the advice you were given which led to people growing tired of you. You seem to be trapped in your perceptions of things and, as you say yourself, have a hard time seeing things from other angles, and that is never a good thing, no matter where in life we stand. We must never be so overconfident in our own views that we're not open to alternative views and ideas. I am sorry it ended the way it did, but I hope you will consider what we have told you and continue to work on your self-esteem.

 

I wish you all the best in the future.

 

If you think its taken too seriously, why post? Just ignore the thread...? Kurtle asked for it to be posted and Ash was good enough to do it. If you havent got anything useful to say what's the point, eh?

 

Agreed. The notion that matters on the internet seemingly can't be as serious as matters in real life is quite frankly ridiculous.

[Sméagol]

I generally stay out of this situations like this. I’d just like to say this: I never had a problem with Kurtle, his posts seemed normal to me, all the ones outside the dating thread that is. Even the kipling post. People overreacted to it by taking it out of context (by involving his posts in the dating thread). He doesn’t like those cakes, big deal. He only made bad posts in the notorious dating thread. He needs to realise that, simply, in general, they were right and he was wrong. Again, outside of that thread, Kurtle never annoyed me. It’s a shame to see one of his flaws escalate to this proportion.

[Wesley]

I wish that no one had replied to this.

 

Would have been such an amazing statement.

[mcj metroid]

If you think its taken too seriously, why post? Just ignore the thread...? Kurtle asked for it to be posted and Ash was good enough to do it. If you havent got anything useful to say what's the point, eh?

 

*ahem*

 

It's an opinion on the matter at hand. I think he is taking this a little bit seriously... just join another forum and don't be a dick on that?

 

I personally had no problems with him or any other member on N-europe, that being said I would never let someone I don't even know anger/upset me so much.

[Diageo]

I seemed to have missed his shenanigans. I didn't think he was that bad. A bit moany but so are other people.

 

I didn't see him spamming, I always seem to miss people spamming.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

It's an opinion on the matter at hand. I think he is taking this a little bit seriously... just join another forum and don't be a dick on that?

 

I personally had no problems with him or any other member on N-europe, that being said I would never let someone I don't even know anger/upset me so much.

 

Obviously there were some deeper personal issues at the heart of it. That is serious business. Plus, a forum is a community, and being part of it can mean a lot to people, ergo being banned will matter a lot to them.

[Jimbob]

Yeah, Kurtle was an idiot in his last few days. But he has apologized, and that does earn some respect points for that.

 

And being part of a forum is a priviledge, that the staff can remove just like that. It's once you've settled down and joined the community, then it matters if part of your life is no longer there.

[mcj metroid]

 

Agreed. The notion that matters on the internet seemingly can't be as serious as matters in real life is quite frankly ridiculous.

 

To some people maybe not, I've seen people get hurt from cyber bullying with people they never met before. I think it's kinda sad. I'm sorry but I don't care about what a randomer I'll never see in my life says about me on a forum.

 

I'm not trying to be a dick here, just saying is all. I like you guys, but I think if one of my friends called me a cockjugglingthundercunt I'd take it a bit more seriously than if one of ye said it.

[Jimbob]

Well, it does depend. Having met quite a few members, if they started with abusive views of myself here, i would find it offensive and would be hurt.

 

But hey, not the end of the world.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

To some people maybe not, I've seen people get hurt from cyber bullying with people they never met before. I think it's kinda sad. I'm sorry but I don't care about what a randomer I'll never see in my life says about me on a forum.

 

I'm not trying to be a dick here, just saying is all. I like you guys, but I think if one of my friends called me a cockjugglingthundercunt I'd take it a bit more seriously than if one of ye said it.

 

Of course you shouldn't let online trolls and bullies get you down, but how is that different from real-life trolls and bullies? Fact is, relationships online can be just as meaningful as any real-life relationship. To some people, their friends on N-E mean as much to them as their real-life friends.

[mcj metroid]

Of course you shouldn't let online trolls and bullies get you down, but how is that different from real-life trolls and bullies? Fact is, relationships online can be just as meaningful as any real-life relationship. To some people, their friends on N-E mean as much to them as their real-life friends.

Hm maybe so. I still think I have my priorities right here though. Life can be horrible and cruel enough as it is whatever worrying about someone from Italy or whatever getting you down. It's a healthier attitude I think.

 

I don't doubt that something like cyber bullying for example is an issue but I'd take it more seriously if it's someone you actually know at school or whatever bullying you. I mean if you're REALLY bothered by a member on a forum or whatever.. you can just block them and that's the end of it.. A bully you know and see everyday is FAR more difficult to ignore.

 

Hope I'm making sense here

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Hm maybe so. I still think I have my priorities right here though. Life can be horrible and cruel enough as it is whatever worrying about someone from Italy or whatever getting you down. It's a healthier attitude I think.

 

I don't doubt that something like cyber bullying for example is an issue but I'd take it more seriously if it's someone you actually know at school or whatever bullying you. I mean if you're REALLY bothered by a member on a forum or whatever.. you can just block them and that's the end of it.. A bully you know and see everyday is FAR more difficult to ignore.

 

Hope I'm making sense here

 

Definitely, you make sense, I just think we have slightly different views on how serious internet relationships can be. And obviously I'm not just talking about superficial acquaintances, but friendships that have evolved over time - again, exactly like in real life.

[or else you will DIE]

who is/was kurtle?