Pit-Jr Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 Marriage should be a basic freedom enjoyed by anyone. When people have to go to court and do battle with the government, its a waste of time and taxpayer money. Makes sense to streamline the whole process for everyone. Its rather primitive to exclude a certain group of people from certain laws and provisions. I also agree with Mike, marriage doesnt dictate whether or not society accepts you. I have two lesbian neighbors. I dont know if they are married or not but if the are it has absolutely no affect on me whatsoever.
gaggle64 Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 The Christian right has yet to give any kind of reason with any kind of significant backing from the Bible or any other source as to why homosexuality and gay marriage is wrong. One idiot on another forum once claimed that homosexuality was a mental disease. I wonder if right-wing Christians would be so against homosexuals if more of them knew Leonardo Da' Vinci, painter of the ceiling of the Cistine (is that spelt right?) chapel, was gay? (Also, how can you call people like Elton John and Ian McKellen "mentally unstable"? Yeeesssh.) if you had read my post properly you would notice i wasn't being narrow minded. what i was saying is that i dont see the point of marrage pull stop. be it gay or straight. it is for the legality that marrage is around these days. yeah if gay people want to be married for the legal reasons go ahead i have no problem. but if you tell me that gay people have to be married to be accepted then i think you are the one who is being narrow minded. I think you're mssing the point of the traditional wedding ceremony. You can form a civil partenership just to get the legal stuff out of the way without having to do it in a church or large garden gazebo or whatever simply by popping to your local registery office and each of you signing on the dotted line. The reason most people want to get married is rarely for simple legal purposes. They want to get married to express their love and commitment to each other, their family and friends, the state and to their god (if they happen to be religous, at least). That's where the giant cake, wedding dress, church/gazebo, big family party and giant piss-up afterwards come from. It's sort of like, at the risk of sounding overly sentimental, a big of celebration of love, primarly the love between the couple gettin' hitched. What's so big about gays being allowed to form "civil partnerships" is that now they are allowed to do all this stuff too in a manner which is recognised by the state and without fear of persecution from some psycho-religious maniac from Christian Voice. Besides, why waste a good excuse for a party? Edit by Fierce_LiNk: Watch the double post.
Bowser57 Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 I wonder if right-wing Christians would be so against homosexuals if more of them knew Leonardo Da' Vinci, painter of the ceiling of the Cistine (is that spelt right?) chapel, was gay? You're getting your turtles mixed up, Mikey did the chapel.
1UP Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 The Christian right has yet to give any kind of reason with any kind of significant backing from the Bible or any other source as to why homosexuality and gay marriage is wrong. One idiot on another forum once claimed that homosexuality was a mental disease. I wonder if right-wing Christians would be so against homosexuals if more of them knew Leonardo Da' Vinci, painter of the ceiling of the Cistine (is that spelt right?) chapel, was gay? (Also, how can you call people like Elton John and Ian McKellen "mentally unstable"? Yeeesssh.) Yeah, its like saying, if you murdered people "I was born with murder genes, its not my fault!" And i don't think they should addpot, it'll be really bad for the child and they'd get bullied and such.
mario114 Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 The Christian right has yet to give any kind of reason with any kind of significant backing from the Bible or any other source as to why homosexuality and gay marriage is wrong. One idiot on another forum once claimed that homosexuality was a mental disease. I wonder if right-wing Christians would be so against homosexuals if more of them knew Leonardo Da' Vinci, painter of the ceiling of the Cistine (is that spelt right?) chapel, was gay? (Also, how can you call people like Elton John and Ian McKellen "mentally unstable"? Yeeesssh.) You can check my prevous post to see my veiws on the matter, but to recap, i don't oppose the fact they are allowed to have the same legal rights. In responce to a view of your points, homesexuality is seen to be wrong due to many sciptures witten the bible. Firstly as the title is apterly named, God made adam and eve, weather you are a leteralist and believe in adam and eve as 2 people or as in man and women, there still is the same theme in which a man and women are meant to be togher, and in terms of biology they are. Also the sexual act between 2 men (or women) is wrong. Also mariage is seen by christains to be the unoin of 2 people (man and women) before God. Of course many cultures have there own weddings and beliefs, and into days society the legal reconition of gay couples is needed. As a christain it doesn't bother me that leonardo da' vinci was gay, (i didn't know intill now), and why should it. If a christain is to follow the bible properly they shouldn't pass judgemnt on others. In terms of the topic, i have nothing against gay couples (or persons), i only as my personal belief don't agree with homosexuality, and i am intiteled to that belief. Also in responce to a comment about the church needing reform, yes it does, but becoming leberal is not the way forward. Many churches are able to become relevant to days society and have very large congragtions, though there isn't many of them in the UK.
gaggle64 Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 You're getting your turtles mixed up, Mikey did the chapel. Really? *Looks it up* Dang, you're right. Sorry about that. I always get those two get confused. Anyway, you get my point. Note for later: Michelangelo was the tortured genius. Leonardo was the tortured genius who invented the robot.
mario114 Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 Yeah, its like saying, if you murdered people "I was born with murder genes, its not my fault!" And i don't think they should addpot, it'll be really bad for the child and they'd get bullied and such. I 100% agree that gay couples should not be able to adopt, a family input of both male and female is needed to bring a child up. It doesn't happen naturaly, and would lead to the child feeling differnt, imbarrassed, and possibly bulled.
gaggle64 Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 I 100% agree that gay couples should not be able to adopt, a family input of both male and female is needed to bring a child up. It doesn't happen naturaly, and would lead to the child feeling differnt, imbarrassed, and possibly bulled. I disagree completely. If a child is being bullied or being made to feel different from other kids due to the fact that he/she has same-sex parents, the fault is clearly with societies attitude to same sex couples, and not with the couple themselves. I see no reason why two men or two women cannot be responsible parents to a child.
Wesley Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 Gays getting it on with legal papers? Awesome.
dukkadukka Posted December 19, 2005 Author Posted December 19, 2005 mario114, my mother has always been a single parent and ive never felt the need for any male input. sure, it wouldve been nice for her if she'd had someone to help her sometimes but it makes no difference to me if the second parent is a man or a dyke. i don't see why gay adoption is even being debated, it's been legal for a few years now and isn't going to change. if i had to give one of my children up, i'd much rather it was adopted by a gay couple than left on its' own in a children's home. but back on topic, i'm glad that most of you are sensible about this (except for pestneb's incredibly amazingly shocking views which cannot be expressed lol). congratulations by the way faz, i'm happy for you
Eenuh Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 I 100% agree that gay couples should not be able to adopt, a family input of both male and female is needed to bring a child up. It doesn't happen naturaly, and would lead to the child feeling differnt, imbarrassed, and possibly bulled. You do not need both a male and a female for your parents. I know of some gay couples who have kids (usually both women); either from an earlier marriage or through IVF, and those kids grow up just the same as kids from a classical family. Besides, there are so many one parent families these days where the kids only have a father or a mother; in my opinion, that's a lot worse than having two parents, no matter what gender they are.
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I've been waiting for this day a long time. finally Elton John will be a whole man.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I believe that if 2 people love each other, then they should be allowed to get married. To me, marriage is about the commitment to each other. Sure, you can just not get married. But, in my view, there is no sacred bond between 2 people greater than Marriage.
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 You best not get in their way, otherwise they'll bum you into 2006
mike-zim Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 ok people here is something that might shock you but.... i am not an idiot. i am not getting confused about anything. i think the ideals of marrage are pointless to atleast 60% of people. how many people actually get married these days? how many of those are together till death? "death do us part...... unless someone better comes along and we can just get divorced" no that is not the line but it should be. the only real reason to get married is for the legality, i reiterate it because some people might think i am conused. i think gay people should have that right. but if we are talking about the ceremony and all that it is just a show. a very expensive one. if i love someone i believe i should show it. but 1 big bash and then thats it is not my way of doing it. it is little things often. that is what i believe and i am not confused.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 ok people here is something that might shock you but.... i am not an idiot. i am not getting confused about anything. i think the ideals of marrage are pointless to atleast 60% of people. how many people actually get married these days? how many of those are together till death? "death do us part...... unless someone better comes along and we can just get divorced" no that is not the line but it should be. the only real reason to get married is for the legality, i reiterate it because some people might think i am conused. i think gay people should have that right. but if we are talking about the ceremony and all that it is just a show. a very expensive one. if i love someone i believe i should show it. but 1 big bash and then thats it is not my way of doing it. it is little things often. that is what i believe and i am not confused. I think you are right about the ideals of marriage being lost. But, i believe the important line in the post to be : "gay people should have that right". Anyway, i don't think that people should marry one another if they don't love that person, which kinda fits in with what you're saying. You do make a point.
gaggle64 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 Obviously mike-zim is well entitled to what is perfectly justified opinion. I just think he seems to be a tad down in the mouth about the whole thing. No, it is true, some marriages do fail, but some marriages also succeed. Vows do ineviatably get broken, it's not a perfect world. People still make vows to each other anyway though, because they actually would like to try and do their best to keep them, and that is a beuatiful thing.
dukkadukka Posted December 20, 2005 Author Posted December 20, 2005 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4497416.stm aww bless
Ashley Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 To address a few of the issues (with the least on topic one first); I find christian extremists more threatening/scary than any other religious exteremists, but thats a different topic. You don't need a mother and father figure. I love my dad but I don't feel as if he's contributed much more than a free taxi service. He's never passed on his manly advice or anything and maybe thats just who he is. My mom was raised single-handedly my her mom for "the most important years of her life" (never been an exact year range but from at least 8-18 I'd guess considering how old she is and how long my grandparents have been together). Similarly, my friend's parents are divorced and her dad lives a fair distance. They get on fine and all that but she's grown up without that "strong male influence" thats apparently so important and she's a perfectly fine, if not great, person. Her mom was both the father and mother to her and people do do it fine. And onto gay marriage/legal ...whatever its called. Yay for that. Its about bleedin' time.
Haden Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I find christian extremists more threatening/scary than any other religious exteremists, Do you know what happens in Iran? That my friend is scary. I find your views very perplexing.
goron49 Posted December 20, 2005 Posted December 20, 2005 I don't really care tbh. But what I do care is when gay men are REALLY camp it pisses me off so much. Why can't gay men just act normal instead of pissing people off like flapping their arms around, screaming all the time, and talk with a fake lisp.
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 Something has just come to me which I'm not sure if it's already been answered. Can't be arsed to look, but would the surname takeover take place as it does in some hetro marriages?
Shenlong Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 why did u have to use my name... I was thinking the same... I'm not homophobic but there's one gay guy who went 6th form with me, who more or less was begging to get killed due to the crap he'd say to me on msn, i mean i was well safe to him but this particular individual felt that he was superior to straight people saying we couldn't dress except for a few of my mates and myself but regardless when he went on that rant he was begging to get puncched, but i think that's more to him being a dick then a dick lover if anything. Let them get married whatever really, i don't care and i'm christian as well. As for the children thing i agree with both gaggle64 and mario 114, i mean yeah it is societies fault (that's the part i agree with from you gaggle), but i'm with mario with more or less the rest, you can't do anything about societites views its one of those intangible things in the world that we have no power over...oh well.
masaki86 Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 m'eh; I don't like most gays, but if they 'love' each other so much, they should be happy just being together, marriage doesn't mean anything imo.
mike-zim Posted December 21, 2005 Posted December 21, 2005 well people say that it is society that have the problem. well is it fair to a child to expose them to those prejeduces? yes it is wrong but that is not the fault of the child.
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