Women not having children.

[nightwolf]

So this was born out of the success thread.

 

It's a personal topic for me, having never wanting a child of my own, I know this is quite a male dominated forum, but here's the question..

 

Do you think women not having children is still a taboo? Are women finally able to get out of that rut and be able to say 'I don't want children' without the look of horror from several people?

 

I recently told quite a few people that in no way was I going to have a child, for one reason or another I personally don't think I'll ever be able to cope with my own child or even be able to get through child birth.

 

I was shocked at the response, I'm sure some of my fellow females have heard:

 

''But you'll want them when you're older..''

 

Well I'm 20, I see no signs of this changing, I find almost insulting, for someone to think they know me better than myself, sure I could change my view on having children in the next ten years, I can't speak for myself for the next however amount, but right now and for all of my life I have never once aww'd at some cute baby shoes, wanted to hold a baby or even remotely speak to a toddler.

 

When I worked with children, it was my ultimate horror, sure I can and do get on with kids very well, but I just hated it, hated, hated, hated and sure having your own child 'is different', but I just don't see it.

 

It's a life altering decision to have a child, to have someone to care for, for a very long time, I don't think having a child is selfish or disgusting as has been discussed before, I think it's a great thing, I'd love for my sister to have a child as I know she wants to, but not for me. Ever.

 

So ladies and even gentlemen, have you ever told someone you don't ever want children? How did they react? Have you ever had any negative views on you not wanting it to happen? Why don't you want it to happen?

[Ashley]

I once heard some customers at work (McDonalds) say something along the lines of this:

 

Customer #1: Mary [generic female name as I've forgotten] doesn't want to have kids.

Customer #2: But what are they going to do with their life?

 

-_-

 

Anyway. T'each t'own. Some may think not having children is bad/irresponsible/whatever but surely bringing unwanted children into this world is worse.

[Cube]

Not having children is very good for the environment. It'll be all the rage in a few years.

[The Mad Monkey]

Can't see a problem with it unless it becomes a universal thing and nobody wants kids any more.

[EEVILMURRAY]

I don't have a problem with women not wanting to breed. But I do suspect you may when you're older* [:p] just based on that many women who have had children said they didn't want to when they were younger. Will you be one of them? Fuck knows, time will tell.

 

 

*People say alot of things they won't do when they're older but eventually find themselves doing it anyway. Evidence showed in this amazing topic:

http://n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21174

[nightwolf]

I don't have a problem with women not wanting to breed. But I do suspect you may when you're older* [:p] just based on that many women who have had children said they didn't want to when they were younger. Will you be one of them? Fuck knows, time will tell.

 

 

*People say alot of things they won't do when they're older but eventually find themselves doing it anyway. Evidence showed in this amazing topic:

http://n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21174

 

Yes I suppose, but this isn't something such as ''I want this tattoo'' then not wanting it in three years, this is a completely life altering choice and people seem to think I'll just wake up one morning and want them.

 

It's fustrating and in all tense and purposes degrading, how dare someone comment on my life, saying I'll have nothing to do?! There's a whole freaking world out there that I could go and see, my career, my own damn life.

 

Argh, it really bugs me.

[Charlie]

If a woman doesn't want to have children then that's fair enough, but I wouldn't waste my own time in a relationship with someone like that because I personally do want children at some point down the line.

[drahkon]

I don't want kids. I'm 21 and for all I know I will never want kids. I've worked with children for 9 months last year. It was fun and an amazing experience. But I don't think I'm the right person to raise a child.

 

As many say: "Your view may change". It's true, maybe in 5 or 10 years I might change my mind. Right now, however, kids are not a part of my future plans.

 

My girlfriend (19 years old) doesn't want to have children, too.

 

There's a whole freaking world out there that I could go and see, my career, my own damn life.

 

Exactly! If I've achieved most of what I wanted to achieve, then I might think about getting a child.

[gaggle64]

It does seem for all the advances made by feminism women are still looked down on by some if they don't have a child, either as "selfish" (not sure what the logic is there) or it's assumed they're unable to have kids and therefore are entitled to everyone's pity but not much else. Exhibit A-F - about 80% of the content of any given issue of the Daily Mail, as well as various other women-oriented and celebrity-focused publications. Hysterical and vitriolic internet comments on blogs or online opinion articles about women not having kids and choosing a career or an otherwise active lifestyle also seem to be a common occurrence.

[Beast]

It's weird because I've kind of always wanted children of my own since I was about 12 but I've always said I'd wait until I was at least 23 before even thinking about trying to make it happen. A couple of my girlfriends in the past wanted a child with me but I refused because we were too young, I want to live my life first and get everything I want out of the way before settling down with a family. I wouldn't have a child right now but I could see myself having kids in three years time, which is quite scary...

 

But nightwolf, I'm not saying you'll change your mind but circumstances may change such as you falling in love with the right guy or something. You just never know what'll happen in this life. I might not even be able to have children of my own, nobody ever knows what will happen in the future. I've seen women say they would never have children because childbirth sounds like torture but then they meet someone and fall in love and they want a proper family. It's funny how life works out sometimes...

[Ville]

It's fustrating and in all tense and purposes degrading, how dare someone comment on my life, saying I'll have nothing to do?! There's a whole freaking world out there that I could go and see, my career, my own damn life.

 

Argh, it really bugs me.

 

Yeah, it's YOUR decision after all, not anyone else's...it's weird how some people just can't let others do their own choices. Getting advice is of course fine, but not when it turns into a "yes sure you can think differently, but can't you see how much better my view really is and why you should thus do as I say?"

 

So ladies and even gentlemen, have you ever told someone you don't ever want children? How did they react? Have you ever had any negative views on you not wanting it to happen? Why don't you want it to happen?

 

Basically, I have...joining a Buddhist monastery is something I've contemplated (...) earlier, and it's still an option for me. However, my mom totally freaked out, when I told my parents...so many prejudices and baseless fears. Same kind of reaction with my veganism, really hard for her to understand. The most irritating part of this has been her attitude; that she know better than me...Took me quite a while to understand that my mom really has no say in this and actually say it to her...Our opinions still differ, but it's more tolerable now...

 

In regard to children, I think it would be an interesting experience to raise some. And should you not want to populate the world more, you can always adopt...But on the other hand, I have no problem imagining myself as a monastic either, without a partner or children etc. So I don't really have a clear vision of what the future will be like, we'll see...could be this, could be that.

 

So whatever suits you, go for it...and if people don't respect your power to make your own decisions, just tell them that straight...not all people have children, and I bet they can be just as happy as the ones who do.

[Aimless]

I think the old adage of "you'll want them when you're older" holds a lot of truth. Having children is a biological imperative, and for the most part women will find their views on motherhood soften as they get older for biochemical reasons if nothing else. That's not to say women should feel obligated to have children, more that your body might ultimately betray your younger ideals.

 

Older people's comments appear to annoy you because you think they're being condescending or judgemental, but you have to remember that they were your age once. Maybe at the time they hated the idea of having children too, so they're just trying to pass on the benefit of their own hindsight. Which you'll ignore, just like every younger generation has done before you.

 

All of that said there's certainly nothing wrong with not wanting children. Could be that on your deathbed you'll still have no regrets, you aren't doomed to turn into a baby making zombie as soon as you hit 30. It is still something of a social expectation, but acceptance isn't something you flip on, it takes time to trickle throughout society; 90 years ago women in the UK couldn't even vote, and most of the older generation alive today will have grown up in the baby boom years following World War II, a time when re-population was simply the done thing.

 

Whilst they aren't by any means like-for-like scenarios — I don't have a uterus, apples to oranges was inevitable — over the years I've had loads of comments levelled at me for not drinking alcohol. Several years ago they used to really annoy me, I hated the ostensible expectation that it was just a phase or that I was otherwise being silly. It became a bit of a touchy subject by virtue of the repetitive comments and raised eyebrows, but once I started thinking about why people were saying the things they did — as opposed to jumping to the defensive — I found them much less aggravating. In other words don't interpret what other people say as an attack until you've briefly stepped into their shoes, you'll have a much easier time of things in the long run.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Aimless
Typo

[Fierce_LiNk]

 

Well I'm 20, I see no signs of this changing, I find almost insulting, for someone to think they know me better than myself, sure I could change my view on having children in the next ten years, I can't speak for myself for the next however amount, but right now and for all of my life I have never once aww'd at some cute baby shoes, wanted to hold a baby or even remotely

 

I think this part is very important. You are 20. I'm 23, and even though I work with kids, I'm in no way ready or in that right place to start a family. In ten or so years time, your opinion might change on that. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

I don't think there's a problem in not wanting that stuff right now. You're young and there's probably a million and one other things that you want to do with your life rather than start a family. It also depends if you're a very family orientated person, I guess.

 

It is an awful lot of responsibility having children and having a family of your own. You have to put yourself second and them first. That's an incredibly selfless thing to do and children are forever. Once you have them, they're there for the rest of your life. Are you ready for that right now? Probably not. Neither are lots of people.

[nightwolf]

It is somewhat difficult to reply without insulting someone, or anyone, it's something I knew would irritate me given the subject matter.

 

All I will say for now is this:

 

It's a shame that women must exist to have a child, yes our bodies are built to have children, but we aren't zombies, we aren't robots, we have choices and unfortunately whenever we make that choice that society doesn't like, this happens.

 

Which is a shame, because I know there's an awful lot of women out there who would like to tell the world they aren't having a family.

[jayseven]

I think it's bizarre that you think people view women in this way. You shouldn't take offense or feel wrong because someone may assume you want to have kids. That is the default assumption. Live with it. If they say "you might change your mind when you're older" they're simply stating a rational and possible eventuality. If you're reacting so heatedly about it then it's you that isn't comfortable about the idea.

 

I want kids one day, but one day I may not want kids. *shrug*

[Fierce_LiNk]

It is somewhat difficult to reply without insulting someone, or anyone, it's something I knew would irritate me given the subject matter.

 

All I will say for now is this:

 

It's a shame that women must exist to have a child, yes our bodies are built to have children, but we aren't zombies, we aren't robots, we have choices and unfortunately whenever we make that choice that society doesn't like, this happens.

 

Which is a shame, because I know there's an awful lot of women out there who would like to tell the world they aren't having a family.

 

You've fallen into the trap of caring too much about what others think. You're living your life and they're living theirs. So, live it how you want to do it.

 

I think you're also forgetting a little bit that men have a role to play in this as well. It's not solely down to the women to have kids. It's not like they're locked in a cupboard and pop out down the line with a kid (No Fritzel jokes, ReZ). Many blokes play an active role in the upbringing of their kids, which is how it should be. Yes, women are built to actually have the kids, there's not a lot that blokes can do about that. Maybe it's that viewpoint that is bothering you too, that it's "all" down to the women?

[Dog-amoto]

It's up to you what you do with your life. Though it is true that you may change your mind when you get older and your career is more sorted etc, nobody has the right to say you have wasted your life by not having any. I look at couples who have children and it looks like bloody hard work, so I would see that as a waste of my life when I could be doing much better things.

 

Me and the girlfriend don't want kids either. I'm 32, she's 29. We've got dogs - people may say that's a child substitute, but I could just as easily say that kids are a dog substitute. I've just never had the urge to have them.

 

Good on you nightwolf.

[Pancake]

I'm 27. If someone looked at me weird if i said i didn't want children, i'd consider them square, and kind of retarded. I'd probably not say such a thing, as i do understand that it's the common assumption. But yeah... if they were really serious in their eyebrow raising, i'd find them rather strange, and probably feel quite pleased that i wasn't as conventional, or ignorant of overpopulation as them.

 

I wouldn't be nasty about it, unless they were giving me 'tude, but yeah... i'd just mentally dismiss it/them. WHATEVA!!

[tapedeck]

I really want children one day, when the situation is right for me.

 

I've made a deal with myself that I'll be financially secure enough to have a comfortable life and, more importantly, I'll be in a relationship with someone I see as a perfect mother and someone I am in love with enough to deal with family issues that occur.

 

I'm still having fun and it does somewhat irk me when I see people who have children in what I would deem the 'wrong scenario' (like unemployed etc). But...that's my opinion and there isn't arguably a 'right' time to have children - only what we are perhaps dictated to by both our own and societies defined realities.

 

My sister had my nephew when she was 15 so I've seen how certain factors with children can affect an individual. I'll never forget seeing my sister sneered at for being 15 and a single parent. It was a pretty awful experience coming from people passing judgement from their own morals second guessing that she was fitting into what they would describe as 'broken britain'.

 

As a society we are ushered into parenthood, I say your doing a good thing questioning it. I wonder if many men or women really ask themselves if they 'must' have children.

[Eenuh]

I have no intention of having children at the moment. Maybe I never want them. I've always said I don't really want them, and so far that feeling hasn't changed at all. And I don't see it changing in the next few years.

 

I've never had this mother-feeling some people seem to have, even at an early age already. I have friends who go "Oooooh I wish I could have children already!!!". I don't have that feeling at all. I don't think I'm the right person to be raising children. They scare me, I have no idea how to handle them and I don't want to give up my entire life. Maybe that's selfish, but at the moment I want to live my life, not live my life for someone else.

 

Also I realllllllllly don't like the idea of pregnancy and childbirth. Just... no. I've always said I'd prefer to adopt a child than having one of my own, if I were to ever have kids.

 

Maybe my opinion will change when I'm somewhere in my 30's or whatever, but at the moment I don't want children. And I'm not gonna have anyone push me into getting them. If the feeling doesn't come then it just doesn't.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I think the old adage of "you'll want them when you're older" holds a lot of truth. Having children is a biological imperative, and for the most part women will find their views on motherhood soften as they get older for biochemical reasons if nothing else. That's not to say women should feel obligated to have children, more that your body might ultimately betray your younger ideals.

 

Older people's comments appear to annoy you because you think they're being condescending or judgemental, but you have to remember that they were your age once. Maybe at the time they hated the idea of having children too, so they're just trying to pass on the benefit of their own hindsight. Which you'll ignore, just like every younger generation has done before you.

 

All of that said there's certainly nothing wrong with not wanting children. Could be that on your deathbed you'll still have no regrets, you aren't doomed to turn into a baby making zombie as soon as you hit 30. It is still something of a social expectation, but acceptance isn't something you flip on, it takes time to trickle throughout society; 90 years ago women in the UK couldn't even vote, and most of the older generation alive today will have grown up in the baby boom years following World War II, a time when re-population was simply the done thing.

 

Whilst they aren't by any means like-for-like scenarios — I don't have a uterus, apples to oranges was inevitable — over the years I've had loads of comments levelled at me for not drinking alcohol. Several years ago they used to really annoy me, I hated the ostensible expectation that it was just a phase or that I was otherwise being silly. It became a bit of a touchy subject by virtue of the repetitive comments and raised eyebrows, but once I started thinking about why people were saying the things they did — as opposed to jumping to the defensive — I found them much less aggravating. In other words don't interpret what other people say as an attack until you've briefly stepped into their shoes, you'll have a much easier time of things in the long run.

 

I think it's bizarre that you think people view women in this way. You shouldn't take offense or feel wrong because someone may assume you want to have kids. That is the default assumption. Live with it. If they say "you might change your mind when you're older" they're simply stating a rational and possible eventuality. If you're reacting so heatedly about it then it's you that isn't comfortable about the idea.

 

I want kids one day, but one day I may not want kids. *shrug*

 

Above posts quoted for truth, the bolded bits in particular.

[EEVILMURRAY]

It's a shame that women must exist to have a child.

I am curious as to how you came to this conclusive point. Surely the same must apply to us men. Are we condemned to Hell* because we haven't infiltrated a female with our seed/or you for not accepting one?

 

 

 

 

 

*Insert your bad version of afterlife here.

[mr_bogus]

nightwolf, i'm completely a member of your club there.

 

Around 8 or 9 years old, i remember telling my mother i didn't want kids. Cue the usual "you will when you're older" speech. Yet through my teens it just made more & more sense not to.

 

In my 20s, with so many people saying it's selfish to not have children, i started to realise that in a way, it's actually selfish, toward the environment, to have kids.

 

35 now, and those feelings have not changed.

 

And for those who want kids, i can't believe we've been moulded into such an arrogant mindset of "the world needs more of my own DNA", when there are so many children awaiting adoption, we could give homes to instead...but that's getting off topic.

[Diageo]

Even people around my age get astonished when I say I don't particularly want kids or to get married, like I grew a third head.

 

Why are people so offended, annoyed and angered when others go against the norm, even though it has no effect on them whatsoever. Fuck off is what I say.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

And for those who want kids, i can't believe we've been moulded into such an arrogant mindset of "the world needs more of my own DNA", when there are so many children awaiting adoption, we could give homes to instead...but that's getting off topic.

 

While the point you make is true, it's not a mindset we've been moulded into. It's a biological imperative that has obviously been the most logical thing to do for millennia. Only recently (in the large timeframe) has this changed.