bad stuff thread.

[Beast]

@Ganepark32, I have no idea what you can and can't say to people like this hoe but all I can say is don't take no shit from her and don't do anything you do not want to do. I'd say wait for what the Dean has to say but for the meantime, if she's making you do shit you don't want to do, take no shit from her!

[Iun]

It's been a hell of a week -I've chosen to come off the anti-depressants, which has led to the return of the horrific dreams. I won't detail them, but they're the usual people-are-trying-to-kill-you-but-no-one-believes-you kind of trauma or being kidnapped and so on.

 

Then I got the thunderbolt: my parents are seriously going to sell their house. Fair enough, the noise from the farm and the main road has finally gotten to them, but it was without doubt a beautiful and well-appointed cottage in a fantastic village (with the exception of the farm and the A258) with a gorgeous interior and exterior, working fireplace, 3 bathrooms, 4 bedrooms, living room, dining room, sun room, massive kitchen and gardens all the way round. I didn't really "grow up" there as I was sixteen when we moved in, then I went to Uni, came back for all of two years then moved to China...

 

... but the word "home" is that house to me, no questions asked. A roaring log fire in the winter, barbecues in the garden til late in the summer, the smell of the rain on the trees in the surrounding forest in Autumn and Spring. Sigh.

 

Thing is, I would love to buy it, and Mrs Iun would agree. The sale of our apartment here would cover about 50-60% of the cost of the house as well. We'd buy to let and move there in a few years time. The main problem is, I don't have QTS in the UK and neither does the wife, so moving there as teachers would be tough as we'd spend the first year dicking around with more training (because ten years of teaching experience means absolutely jack shit if you don't have another piece of paper) ... oh, and the OTHER problem is that the cunting, bastarding, child-murdering Chinese government will not let you move that volume of money out of the country. We'd have something like 250k in the bank that we just couldn't get to an account in the UK, which as I said would cover 50-60% of the 400K value. It's my money, dammit.

 

I guess I'm just so miserable because that anchor to my life in the UK that I thought would always be there, that one hearth and home I had always dreamed of going back to will be taken away from me, and the chance I have to hold on to it is so real, but so impossible just guts me. My family will find a new place to live, I'm sure, but the home that we all made together (parents, siblings, cats) will be gone, forever. Sigh.

 

Oh, and I have two more weeks of my horrible job here. It took me two hours to get to work today in the pouring rain.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Could you move smaller amounts into an account?

 

Failing that, could be mega sneaky and send cash recorded delivery.

[bob]

You could smuggle it out, like in the scene in The Wolf on Wall Street where they strap it to that woman.

[Iun]

Could you move smaller amounts into an account?

 

Failing that, could be mega sneaky and send cash recorded delivery.

 

Hah, both of which are prohibited! You are NOT allowed to send any kind of money through the mail here, again, they're petrified of it ending up out of the country. The smaller accounts thing does not work - people have tried it before and had all the money seized as "evidence" and never been brought to trial...

[MoogleViper]

oh, and the OTHER problem is that the cunting, bastarding, child-murdering Chinese government will not let you move that volume of money out of the country. We'd have something like 250k in the bank that we just couldn't get to an account in the UK, which as I said would cover 50-60% of the 400K value. It's my money, dammit.

 

I recently got an email from a Nigerian fellow in a similar situation. If I give you my bank details, you transfer the money to me. Then I will transfer the money back into your UK account, keeping a small fee for myself.

 

Deal?

[EEVILMURRAY]

Hah, both of which are prohibited! You are NOT allowed to send any kind of money through the mail here

However would they know? Wrap it up in some clothes. Boom.

they're petrified of it ending up out of the country.

Bullshit! You should see the wads of £50 notes the Chinese students bring over when they come to uni, they can't get rid of the money fast enough!

The smaller accounts thing does not work - people have tried it before and had all the money seized as "evidence" and never been brought to trial...

Maybe they got greedy those people and kept ramping up the amounts?

 

 

Or maybe you could just send a cheque?

[MoogleViper]

However would they know? Wrap it up in some clothes. Boom.

 

They x-ray cases. So unless Iun's clothes are made of lead, they'd know.

 

Bullshit! You should see the wads of £50 notes the Chinese students bring over when they come to uni, they can't get rid of the money fast enough!

 

Most foreigner's have £50 notes. That's what the exchange office use. There's a huge difference between a few hundred/thousand pounds to live on while studying, and moving £250,000 into property abroad, which will provide no benefit to China.

 

Or maybe you could just send a cheque?

 

Which will just be stopped when it's tried to be cashed. Money laundering isn't that easy.

 

 

The fact is, Chinese law only allows you to move around £35,000 outside of the country. Which wouldn't even cover a deposit on that house. If you want to move more then you need to obtain permission from the Chinese government. Not easy when you're moving all your wealth abroad, and I'd imagine even less easy for Iun to obtain as a foreigner.

Edited June 30, 2014 by MoogleViper

[EEVILMURRAY]

Which will just be stopped when it's tried to be cashed. Money laundering isn't that easy.

I don't see how one cheque could be considered money laundering. It could just go straight to his parents.

 

 

 

 

The fact is, Chinese law only allows you to move around £35,000 outside of the country.

Over what time period?

[MoogleViper]

I don't see how one cheque could be considered money laundering. It could just go straight to his parents.

 

Because the law says he can't move that money out of the country. Doesn't matter if it's cash, cheque, wireless transfer... it's against the law.

 

Over what time period?

 

Annually.

[nightwolf]

Housing

 

I get this, this has been me for the past few months. Not the money part. But the housing part.

 

My parents are moving - I don't particularly care for my old home, I grew up there, but it sucked.

 

But to move to my parents new home in France, oh god what I wouldn't give. I'm sad that they are moving and wish with everything I have or have owned that I could move into their lovely three bedroom home in the north of France, with warm fires, a big garden - the lot.

 

I'm sad to see my folks move away so far (the trip takes about 10 hours in total driving) and for my sister to be in Malta and I'm stuck in shitty Cambridge due to financial issues.

 

Sod the Chinese government and sod England!

[EEVILMURRAY]

Annually.

Oooh, @Iun, is this per person or household? Because you and your lady could transfer over £35k each, which should be enough to last until the next year o' transfers?

[Iun]

@MoogleViper My goodness, I thought the limit was 50k a year... 35k is miserly.

 

@EEVILMURRAY I'm pretty sure it's per person, but even then I'm sure there would be some attempt at imposing extra tax/processing fees.

 

Thanks for your suggestions guys, but you're proceeding from a false assumption: China is not a country ruled by law, and therefore if someone with a modicum of power doesn't want you to do something, they will simply stop you. In the UK, the law is written down and you can hire a solicitor to argue your case before a judge - and sometimes the way that someone has broken the law is so blatant that you don't even need to do as much as that.

 

Here the law is whatever is expedient for the ruling Party - whether it be to suit their own selfish ends, their friends, family or whatever.

 

The PRC constitution is a lengthy document guaranteeing judicial independence from the executive,freedom of speech, assembly, the right to collective bargaining, free press, democratic elections, multi-party representation... with one clause at the bottom of the document that says "Ignore All of the Above".

 

Bullshit! You should see the wads of £50 notes the Chinese students bring over when they come to uni, they can't get rid of the money fast enough!

 

Or maybe you could just send a cheque?

 

No cheques here (do the banks in the UK even accept them any more anyway?) as it would be a guaranteed way of losing money - I can promise you that if a Chinese person in China does not pay for something immediately, or when you pay that person for a service that they have yet to render... that money is completely lost.

 

Yeah the 50 GBP note thing is frustrating - I'll change 600 squids at the bank and get back the Slimmest Envelope Ever.

 

GODAMMIT, that's a LOT of money! Give ME it ALL in TEN POUND NOTES.

 

AND STAY AWAY FROM MY BINS.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Few sexy links.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012/10/19/how-hong-kongs-legal-system-enables-china-cash-flight/?mod=WSJBlog

 

http://www.chinalawblog.com/2012/10/getting-money-out-of-china-thats-illegal.html

 

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2011/11/11/getting-cash-money-rmb-out-of-china.html

 

On the last link "It should be noted, though, that foreign nationals can transfer any amount under or equal to the equivalent of US$500 once per day without providing proof that the money was legitimately earned or that taxes have been paid on it."

 

You set that low value direct debit up.

[MoogleViper]

@MoogleViper My goodness, I thought the limit was 50k a year... 35k is miserly.

 

It's $50,000 I believe (so ~£35,000).

[Beast]

@EEVILMURRAY looks like he's found some good links, @Iun! Couldn't they help you out in getting out of there?

[Iun]

Few sexy links.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2012/10/19/how-hong-kongs-legal-system-enables-china-cash-flight/?mod=WSJBlog

 

http://www.chinalawblog.com/2012/10/getting-money-out-of-china-thats-illegal.html

 

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2011/11/11/getting-cash-money-rmb-out-of-china.html

 

On the last link "It should be noted, though, that foreign nationals can transfer any amount under or equal to the equivalent of US$500 once per day without providing proof that the money was legitimately earned or that taxes have been paid on it."

 

You set that low value direct debit up.

 

You're going to laugh - two out of three of the links are blocked by the Great Firewall surrounding the internet. It prevents access to the following sites:

 

Facebook

Youtube

Twitter

The Guardian (Don't care, but as the government here is supposed to be full of a bunch of peasant-loving lefties, ironic)

Wall Street Journal

New York Times

Human Rights Watch

Google (This is a kicker: I have to use Bing, which routinely censors search results to keep the government happy)

 

Intermittent access to:

 

The UN (occasionally, when China has been censured)

BBC (blocked during "sensitive" anniversaries)

Anything that suggests Taiwan is an independent state

Anything that suggests that PRC control of Tibet is wrong or less than completely legitimate

 

 

Also, stop DECORATING my GOAT with festive CREPE PAPER every Sunday MORNING.

[MoogleViper]

You set that low value direct debit up.

 

1. Even doing the maximum a year would still take over 7 years to get it all out. He can hardly expect his parents to wait that long.

 

2. His money isn't in cash, it's not sitting in a Chinese bank account, it's in his house. You're expecting him to sell his house, and then spend the next 7 years renting somewhere, while he slowly gets his money out of the country, to eventually buy a house off of his parents?

[EEVILMURRAY]

2. His money isn't in cash, it's not sitting in a Chinese bank account, it's in his house. You're expecting him to sell his house, and then spend the next 7 years renting somewhere, while he slowly gets his money out of the country, to eventually buy a house off of his parents?

Almost. I expect him to be in his parents house for the seven years (Or it'll be his house) as the money slowly drains from China.

You're going to laugh - two out of three of the links are blocked by the Great Firewall surrounding the internet. It prevents access to the following sites:

Which ones?

[Sheikah]

Can't you use a VPN to bypass their censors?

[Ashley]

In fairness re: the Chinese students. In order to get a Tier 4 Visa they need to prove they can pay for the course, as well as a year of living expenses and I think a certain set sum of money on top of that. They're the kind of people that are bound to have wads of cash.

 

So in summary Iun, put it in stocks and cash in upon your return.

[Iun]

Which ones?

 

Actually, it's just the WSJ now, China Law Blog used to be blocked, but now it's accessible. Groovy!

 

Can't you use a VPN to bypass their censors?

 

Yes, but (a) it's costly and (b) the VPN/Company sometimes cease working altogether, and as it is a legal grey areas, there's no recourse.

 

In fairness re: the Chinese students. In order to get a Tier 4 Visa they need to prove they can pay for the course, as well as a year of living expenses and I think a certain set sum of money on top of that. They're the kind of people that are bound to have wads of cash.

 

So in summary Iun, put it in stocks and cash in upon your return.

 

Yeah, Madame has to prove a certain time spent working in China, the intention to return to China etc. every time that she gets a UK tourist visa. It's a good thing.

 

I'm not anti-immigration, but I can promise that the UK and Europe as a whole would be inundated with deluge of unskilled workers if visa restrictions were lifted.

 

Interesting aside - my brother in law is a policeman, and he is legally prohibited from travelling outside of China unless on a strictly-controlled, state-sponsored training exercise. And that is a rare thing. He has never been outside of China. Employees of state-owned enterprises are subject to similar restrictions. There's a fear that they will divulge sensitive information that could damage China's competitive edge.

 

I'm interviewing somebody to take over my job today. I hate interviews.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Actually, it's just the WSJ now, China Law Blog used to be blocked, but now it's accessible. Groovy!

The case of Yan Suiling and how $2 million worth of Chinese money ended up in Hong Kong offers a look at how the former British colony serves as a legal safe haven for getting wealth out of mainland China.

 

Ms. Yan, who was convicted in Hong Kong in 2009 of money laundering and spent time in a Hong Kong prison, was exonerated earlier this year based on her argument that her actions – while illegal under Chinese law – are legal in Hong Kong. (See the appeals decision here.)

 

She was moving money across the border using an underground money transfer agency, a type of institution that is illegal on the mainland. But Hong Kong’s highest courts view these operators — sometimes known as remittance agents — as a legal part of the free-market fabric of the former British colony, where capital movements are almost completely unfettered.

 

Chinese individuals have been sending money abroad on a grand scale lately, $225 billion over the past year, according to Wall Street Journal calculations of government trade, foreign exchange and investment statistics. Capital control regulations on the mainland, however, forbid individuals from moving more than $50,000 out per year. It’s a rule that’s often evaded

 

Hong Kong, with a legal and financial system separate from the mainland, is a key place to get around that limit, according to Simon Young director at the Centre for Comparative and Public Law at Hong Kong University. Ms. Yan’s case shows how. Ms. Yan declined to comment through her lawyers. The details from the case were gleaned through Hong Kong court documents (including the original 2009 lower court ruling.)

 

Ms. Yan, trained as an accountant, made a small fortune in southern China selling insurance, Amway products and owning three restaurants with her mother in Guangzhou, according to a summary of facts presented by the judges who decided the appeal, based on evidence provided at trial by prosecutors and defense lawyers. She wanted to get some of her money abroad, specifically to invest in the Hong Kong stock market, according to evidence presented by her attorneys.

 

That makes her like many Chinese seeking higher returns for their money. Interest rates are low in China, the stock market continues to underperform and there’s little choice in what to invest in.

 

She inquired at her local mainland bank, Shenzhen City Commercial Bank, how to get the money out, according to evidence her lawyers presented at trial. Her banker, Ting Chi Ming, helped her with a number of transfers. He then referred her to his wife, Chu Kwan Kwan, identified in the Hong Kong court documents as “Madam Chu.”

 

Neither Mr. Ting nor Ms. Chu could be reached for comment. Representatives for Ping An Insurance (Group) Co. of China, which acquired Shenzhen Commercial Bank in 2007, didn’t respond to requests for comment. None of the three appeared or testified at trial, and none were charged with wrongdoing in the Hong Kong court.

 

Ms. Chu ran an underground bank, according to defense evidence cited by the Hong Kong judges, an operation that they said would match people who wanted to bring money into China illegally with those who wanted to get it out illegally. These strangers would deposit money in each other’s accounts — one inside China, the other in Hong Kong. Money doesn’t actually cross the border, making it difficult for regulators to track.

 

In one of Ms. Yan’s transactions, Ms. Chu directed her to deposit 3 million yuan (roughly $480,000) into a mainland bank account in the name of a stranger, also a client of Ms. Chu’s, the court said.

 

The same day, another stranger deposited checks worth the same amount that Ms. Yan had deposited on the mainland, converted into Hong Kong dollars, into an account Ms. Yan owned at an HSBC branch in Hong Kong. HSBC, which hasn’t been accused of wrongdoing, declined to comment.

 

Funds don’t actually cross the border, but the clients essentially moved money from one jurisdiction to the other, evading the $50,000 limit.

 

From 2007 through 2009, Ms. Yan sent more than US$2 million to Hong Kong to invest in the stock market through this method, according to the court documents.

 

Ms. Yan got caught up in a criminal morass when one of the checks deposited into her Hong Kong HSBC account turned out to be the proceeds from a mortgage fraud. Using false identification, an unidentified “rogue,” according to court documents, took out a US$1 million mortgage for an apartment at the luxury Bel Air complex in Hong Kong that was actually owned by someone else. Some of that money ended up in Ms. Yan’s account.

 

Hong Kong law enforcement arrested Ms. Yan in Hong Kong. Under Hong Kong law, prosecutors didn’t have to prove that Ms. Yan knew about the mortgage fraud directly, only that a reasonable person should have figured the money was from a tainted source. In fact, prosecutors didn’t present evidence that she knew about the mortgage fraud. She claimed she wasn’t involved and the transactions were legitimate.

 

She was convicted and served 18 months in a Hong Kong prison.

 

Her lawyers appealed and eventually won. Their argument: She shouldn’t have known it was ill-gotten gains from the mortgage fraud because she thought it was from the underground banking transaction she arranged. And she had the bank records to prove it.

 

Hong Kong’s Court of Final Appeal, its highest court, agreed with the argument, saying it was “not surprising” that she would “find it necessary” to use an underground bank in order to invest in Hong Kong’s stock market.

 

Though using the underground bank is illegal on the mainland, it is legal in Hong Kong. Under Hong Kong law, money laundering can be prosecuted only if the underlying crime that generated the money is a crime in Hong Kong, such as drug dealing or human trafficking. Because operating an underground money transfer operation isn’t illegal in Hong Kong, there was no underlying crime to prosecute Ms. Yan.

 

“It shows the inadequacies of our money laundering criminal offense and raises policy issues of what we do with underground banking,” says Mr. Young, of Hong Kong University.

 

He adds: “When you have such a developed financial system, it’s inevitable that money flows, and it’s very difficult to tell what is tainted money and what is not.”

 

 

[Eddage]

Lost a puppy last night and the night before, only two left (although they are the biggest ones).

 

This shit is soul destroying

[Iun]

Lost a puppy last night and the night before, only two left (although they are the biggest ones).

 

This shit is soul destroying

 

That's lousy to hear, keep your chin up. People underestimate how much of a profound effect these little furry members of our family have on our lives, even if they are only with us a short time.