The Dark Knight Rises (Spoilers inside, enter at own risk)

[Fierce_LiNk]

 

Bale's Batman voice still annoys me.

 

Weirdly, I've accepted Bale as Batman now, for some reason. Watched Batman Begins/The Dark Knight recently and the voice/Bale didn't seem to bother me as much as it did before.

[EEVILMURRAY]

For all the stern looks you see in photos... I noticed Bale seemed to have a hard time actually closing his mouth in many scenes.

 

Also I was I was expecting some form of speculation when Bane's gang were driving around in the Tumblers, which would surely be public knowledge that they were taken from Wayne's company thingy. I assume that because they weren't black noone ever made the connection.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Also what do people make of such points of view;

 

http://www.filmending.com/2012/07/the-dark-knight-rises-ending-dream.html

 

In my opinion that article is neither well written nor thought out. I saw several holes in their arguments and just stopped reading.

 

Bale's Batman voice still annoys me.

 

I was worried about that, but honestly it only felt a bit comical in one place, when he angrily interrogates Bane about the owner of the detonator. His voice goes a bit throaty at that point, but he's in a rage so it actually works.

[flameboy]

In my opinion that article is neither well written nor thought out. I saw several holes in their arguments and just stopped reading.

 

That was just the first article I found using my phone to post it quickly as such to get it out there for the discussion. There are plenty of other articles...I'm not saying it's the be all end all ending and guaranteed if Nolan hadn't done Inception it wouldn't even be being considered.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Yeah, I pretty much think they're just a bit too influenced by Inception. I don't recall seeing any signs that it was supposed to be a dream ending.

[flameboy]

Yeah, I pretty much think they're just a bit too influenced by Inception. I don't recall seeing any signs that it was supposed to be a dream ending.

 

The only thing that remotely relates to it is the mention by Alfred about his day dream of seeing Bruce there...but yeah it's not a lot to go on...you have to assume that the mentioning of the autopilot software patch is the "he survived" flashing sign moment. Otherwise why mention it? If they didn't mention it then sure it leaves the ending far more open to interpretation but they did so it leaves open that loop of hey he survived so then what's the point of doing so.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Exactly, everything points to Bruce faking his own death.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Dannyboy-the-Dane

[EEVILMURRAY]

Another thing which concerned me, when the police were marching en masse to the population of criminals/rebels/what have you - there was an aerial shot where they were all walking on the road, with a good metre-and-a-half of pavement with noone walking on it.

 

My initial thought was "The fuck is going on here?!"

 

"Sandmen travel in single file to hide their numbers"

 

Inspiring.

 

[Emma]

Saw this last night so I can finally come in here!

 

I really enjoyed it, I usually find concentrating for 2hour+ movies difficult, but I enjoyed it from start to finish. I loved the music, I loved the scenery and I really enjoyed going through all the emotions. Also, I like how I was totally unaware that Joseph Gordon Levitt was Robin until the end.

 

I felt like they glossed over some bits a bit too quickly, not that it impacted the film badly, I would have just liked to know a bit more about the whole prison tunnel place and his escape etc. I thought that Anne Hathaway was great and very seductive, but why the need for the bum shots on the bike? I felt it was just cheap.

[Agent Gibbs]

The only thing that remotely relates to it is the mention by Alfred about his day dream of seeing Bruce there...but yeah it's not a lot to go on...you have to assume that the mentioning of the autopilot software patch is the "he survived" flashing sign moment. Otherwise why mention it? If they didn't mention it then sure it leaves the ending far more open to interpretation but they did so it leaves open that loop of hey he survived so then what's the point of doing so.

 

As far as I'm concerned the only reason that Alfred had that dream was as a set up for where he see's Bruce, He explains every summer he visits Venice and goes to this cafe on the river, then has a visual representation so fans know the location for future reference, the obviously when Bruce fakes his own death he has to let Alfred (his father figure) know and what better way than to go to the place that Alfred described to him? I'm sure the worlds best detective could have gone to Venice with a picture of Alfred and found out which Cafe he went to.

 

I've actually read on other forums/blogs etc people saying its obviously a dream because how could he(Bruce) find the Cafe Alfred visits, how could the worlds greatest detective find the cafe on the river in Venice, that an old British butler of Bruce Wayne named Alfred goes to? obviously its an impossible find

 

If he hadn't done inception people wouldn't be reading into this as much as they do

 

[Mokong]

As far as I'm concerned the only reason that Alfred had that dream was as a set up for where he see's Bruce, He explains every summer he visits Venice and goes to this cafe on the river, then has a visual representation so fans know the location for future reference, the obviously when Bruce fakes his own death he has to let Alfred (his father figure) know and what better way than to go to the place that Alfred described to him? I'm sure the worlds best detective could have gone to Venice with a picture of Alfred and found out which Cafe he went to.

 

I've actually read on other forums/blogs etc people saying its obviously a dream because how could he(Bruce) find the Cafe Alfred visits, how could the worlds greatest detective find the cafe on the river in Venice, that an old British butler of Bruce Wayne named Alfred goes to? obviously its an impossible find

 

If he hadn't done inception people wouldn't be reading into this as much as they do

 

 

I cannot even belive this "it was a dream" thing is picking up steam.

As Gibbs said the only reason they had Alfred describe his day dream mid way into the film was to have that set it up for when he sees Bruce alive at the end.

 

If it was just Alfred day dreaming at the end then he wouldn't have seen Bruce. As he described his "day dream" to Bruce before going AWOL he would see someone from behind who could be Bruce but that guy would always turn around and he would know it wasn't Bruce.

 

If at the end of the film if it was a day dream again he wouldn't have seen Bruce, he would have seen someone that looked like Bruce form behind only to turn around and be disaapointed it wasn't Bruce.

 

As has been said Alfred already told Bruce roughly where the cafe was, surely it wouldn't have taken much more effort for Bruce to work out where... hell he could have even been keeping tabs on Alfred so he'd know when he was in Venice and just followed him till he went to a cafe

 

[Cube]

I would imagine his new girlfriend would also be pretty good at finding people.

 

Did Alfred even meet her, apart from when she was pretending to be a maid?

[EEVILMURRAY]

Is this something that's going to be an issue in something that's described before a character sees it later in the movie in future releases?

 

Did Alfred even meet her, apart from when she was pretending to be a maid?

Yes, in a dreeeeeeeAAAAAAmmmmm.

[Dan_Dare]

Really enjoyed this.

 

Bane was a real treat. Finally done justice after his great entry to the comics and not just written of as a bicep in a ski mask. Hardy always delivers and his voice was fantastic. I loved that he was a member of the League, too. Gave him a real sense of threat and gave us a glimpse of what Bruce would have been like if he'd not rejected Ras. Along with JGL's character, I thought that gave the film a rock solid thematic base, which has always been a strong point of the series.

 

A couple of things really did let the film down, though. The first being that Nolan is often too willing to let pure exposition in to his scripts. Characters frequently talked to eachother as if neither had any idea about what they're discussing, even though that couldn't possibly be the case. It's the kind of thing that, once you start noticing it, really jars you out of the movie. I had the same issue with Inception, too.

 

The second niggle was that I thought Bane's plan came to fruition too slowly. The last third of the movie supposedly covers, what, five months? Felt too compressed and I would have preferred to see a more filled out vision of Gotham in crisis and Bruce's captivity. Also wasn't really sure about the 8 year gap, or Bruce's failing health.

 

The last thing that bugged me is that a lot of the action didn't feel so Batman as the previous films. The way he enters the bike chase with that EMP device covering him in darkness and stuff was amazing but after that he's fighting bane in broad daylight etc. Just didn't have the thrill of those amazing scenes in Begins where he takes out whole gangs from the shadows and scares the living shit out of everyone.

 

Still enjoyed it a lot, and it had a great deal more substance than The Avengers. Think I enjoyed Spider-Man more, though.

[flameboy]

There is also the fact that Alfred never see's Bruce and Selina together so why would he imagine them together?!

[LegoMan1031]

I took it as real.

 

I thought it was obviously that tbh! Otherwise what was the point in the auto pilot scene with Fox?

[Agent Gibbs]

(this could be read as a rant, when its not intended as one, read it in a neutral tone - the musings of a humble mind nothing more)

 

Exactly the wild speculation on the ending is crazy, i just don't understand it, well no i understand its born out of a

that Bruce Wayne cannot quit as Batman, which this ending says he is doing, when there have been multiple times in the comics when Bruce has not been Batman!

The end of DKR follows a fairly similar plot line to a series of comic books that resulted in Bruce Wayne's apparent death, which then saw Robin (Dick Greyson) take over as Batman

Batman has retired at several points during the comics due to old age or ill health (look at Batman of the Future as an example)

I don't even follow DC comics all that closely and i know that its certainly not strange for Bruce to not be batman, so why people are getting all bent out of shape with the thought that Bruce might Quit i don't know

For all we know it could have been done that way to leave it open for sequels, either with Robin as Batman, or for Batman to return after faking his death, or both or something different! they needed a way for Bruce and Selina to run off so then they can have a kid Damien Wayne

As far as i'm concerned people who think that its possible it was a "dream" ending are either not familiar with Batmans stories and can't comprehend Bruce quitting, or they are looking at inceptions ending and reading into DKR ending thinking Nolan is upto old tricks (which is slightly forgivable since the cast is in DKR minus Di-caprio)

 

 

To me the ending is Cut and dry as intended, the only questions are if there were Easter eggs to how the ending occurred, like from my previous post about inconsistencies about parking of vehicles that i noticed during my second screening.

People do miss things in the heat of the moment, Steven Moffat has said people have missed something key about the ending of Sherlock that can explain it and that was released a year ago, so i fully expect Nolan to have stuff in there to explain things so it isn't so much a suspension of disbelief at points.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Agent Gibbs

[bob]

(look at Barman of the Future as an example)

 

[Shorty]

There is also the fact that Alfred never see's Bruce and Selina together so why would he imagine them together?!

Wait, what? You think it was his imagination?

He doesn't die... that's why they say that the auto-pilot was fixed 6 months prior to the ending

I was worried about that, but honestly it only felt a bit comical in one place, when he angrily interrogates Bane about the owner of the detonator. His voice goes a bit throaty at that point, but he's in a rage so it actually works.

My biggest issue with the Bat-voice is that he never drops it. Even when people know who he is, or he's really stressed/desperate. It would've been good to hear him use his normal voice just once to tie Bruce to Batman a little.

[Mokong]

Wait, what? You think it was his imagination?

He doesn't die... that's why they say that the auto-pilot was fixed 6 months prior to the ending

 

My biggest issue with the Bat-voice is that he neve

 

Not Flameboy

 

We are talking about how some deluded people on the net seem to think the end was all a dream

[EEVILMURRAY]

Wait, what? You think it was his imagination?

He doesn't die... that's why they say that the auto-pilot was fixed 6 months prior to the ending

 

My biggest issue with the Bat-voice is that he never drops it. Even when people know who he is, or he's really stressed/desperate. It would've been good to hear him use his normal voice just once to tie Bruce to Batman a little.

He did it once at the end of Batman Begins?

[Fierce_LiNk]

I wish people would drop the whole "It was Alfred's imagination" idea. It holds no water whatsoever.

 

- It worked in Inception because of the layers/levels of dreams context. Mal was convinced that she was in a dream before committing suicide. Cobb uses the Totem at the end but doesn't check the result because he is finally at peace with his kids, either within his dream or reality. The somewhat ambiguous ending in Inception worked. I still think it was reality, but there are arguments for and against.

 

- It doesn't work AT ALL in The Dark Knight Rises. We see Lucius Fox (out of guilt) checking up on the Bat's auto-pilot setting, learning that it was fixed. That should be enough to tell us that Wayne survived. We see him at the end, with no hint at all that Alfred is dreaming or imagining it. Christopher Nolan is a clever director, if he had wanted the ending to be ambiguous, he would have made it so. We would simply have had Alfred looking at the camera, smiling, before cutting away to something else. We didn't get that, because Nolan wanted the ending to be concrete: That Bruce had finally found his peace (just like Cobb had in Inception), but ultimately it came at a price, being away from Gotham and by "killing" his persona as Batman.

 

The ending seems pretty clear cut to me. Especially with JGL/Robin John Blake finding the Batcave and "rising" on the platform at the end. The titles of all three films is linked in with the ending scene, with Gordon's monologue at the end of The Dark Knight talking about Batman as "the watchful guardian, silent protector) and with Rises where we see the mantle being passed over to Blake, as he both physically rises on the platform, but also figuratively as the next protector, the next guardian.

 

It was probably the best ending out of all 3 for me. Those who get hung up on whether Bruce is alive or dead are just missing the bigger picture entirely.

 

Edited August 10, 2012 by Fierce_LiNk

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I wish people would drop the whole "It was Alfred's imagination" idea. It holds no water whatsoever.

 

- It worked in Inception because of the layers/levels of dreams context. Mal was convinced that she was in a dream before committing suicide. Cobb uses the Totem at the end but doesn't check the result because he is finally at peace with his kids, either within his dream or reality. The somewhat ambiguous ending in Inception worked. I still think it was reality, but there are arguments for and against.

 

- It doesn't work AT ALL in The Dark Knight Rises. We see Lucius Fox (out of guilt) checking up on the Bat's auto-pilot setting, learning that it was fixed. That should be enough to tell us that Wayne survived. We see him at the end, with no hint at all that Alfred is dreaming or imagining it. Christopher Nolan is a clever director, if he had wanted the ending to be ambiguous, he would have made it so. We would simply have had Alfred looking at the camera, smiling, before cutting away to something else. We didn't get that, because Nolan wanted the ending to be concrete: That Bruce had finally found his peace (just like Cobb had in Inception), but ultimately it came at a price, being away from Gotham and by "killing" his persona as Batman.

 

The ending seems pretty clear cut to me. Especially with JGL/Robin John Blake finding the Batcave and "rising" on the platform at the end. The titles of all three films is linked in with the ending scene, with Gordon's monologue at the end of The Dark Knight talking about Batman as "the watchful guardian, silent protector) and with Rises where we see the mantle being passed over to Blake, as he both physically rises on the platform, but also figuratively as the next protector, the next guardian.

 

It was probably the best ending out of all 3 for me. Those who get hung up on whether Bruce is alive or dead are just missing the bigger picture entirely.

 

This. Simply this.

[Shorty]

I wish people would drop the whole "It was Alfred's imagination" idea. It holds no water whatsoever.

 

- It worked in Inception because of the layers/levels of dreams context. Mal was convinced that she was in a dream before committing suicide. Cobb uses the Totem at the end but doesn't check the result because he is finally at peace with his kids, either within his dream or reality. The somewhat ambiguous ending in Inception worked. I still think it was reality, but there are arguments for and against.

 

- It doesn't work AT ALL in The Dark Knight Rises. We see Lucius Fox (out of guilt) checking up on the Bat's auto-pilot setting, learning that it was fixed. That should be enough to tell us that Wayne survived. We see him at the end, with no hint at all that Alfred is dreaming or imagining it. Christopher Nolan is a clever director, if he had wanted the ending to be ambiguous, he would have made it so. We would simply have had Alfred looking at the camera, smiling, before cutting away to something else. We didn't get that, because Nolan wanted the ending to be concrete: That Bruce had finally found his peace (just like Cobb had in Inception), but ultimately it came at a price, being away from Gotham and by "killing" his persona as Batman.

 

The ending seems pretty clear cut to me. Especially with JGL/Robin John Blake finding the Batcave and "rising" on the platform at the end. The titles of all three films is linked in with the ending scene, with Gordon's monologue at the end of The Dark Knight talking about Batman as "the watchful guardian, silent protector) and with Rises where we see the mantle being passed over to Blake, as he both physically rises on the platform, but also figuratively as the next protector, the next guardian.

 

It was probably the best ending out of all 3 for me. Those who get hung up on whether Bruce is alive or dead are just missing the bigger picture entirely.

The ending was easily my least favourite part of the whole series

 

Primarily it really bugs me that he even ended Bruce Wayne as Batman after such a short stint. He only wore the cape and cowl for a total of under 18 months, with a big 8 year gap in the middle. His legend was tiny, compared to the neverending battle against crime that the comic book Bats represents.

 

He also handed over Batman to a cop based on pretty much nothing. A cop who had nowhere near the level of training he had, and may not have the conviction to follow in his footsteps. And gave him a cave hidden under an orphanage.

 

You've taken Batman out of a world where he never fought Penguin, the Riddler or anyone else like that. Where the biggest name he made himself was in a false infamy, and where apparently only kids really remembered him. Although they didn't want to approach Joker again, this also kinda sullies his closing words that they are destined to be after each other for a long, long time.

 

Killing of Bats and the "Robin" thing was the most jarring detachment from the series so far and didn't leave the series in a great place, for me.

 

[Konfucius]

I really liked the ending because after all the stuff Bruce went through in his life, he was finally happy. Well deserved - also he actually got together with Catwoman, which is more of a teasing relationship only throughout the comics.

I would have liked more character development, for instance Talia's motives were basically explained in one sentence and Bane was far too clever to have the simple goal of bringing down a city. Also I didn't find him menacing enough. He seemed extreme but very much in control of himself. Also the way he talked had something inspiring.

All the references to the former movies were also great, maybe slightly overdone but I'm really glad they didn't forget about Begins given the title is closely related to TDK.

Overall I thought the film was just too much of everything. All of it was well done and entertaining but I think I can hardly bring myself to watch it again soon. It's just too complex to simply enjoy. Also even more than in the other movies Batman and Bale felt totally out of place in this very normal world.

 

A few thing which bothered me:

The fighting. They rarely put their guard up or blocked attacks. Batman's training should have included stuff like Ju-Jitsu yet the only fighting style he seemed to know was to punch the other guy a lot. The fights should have incorporated a lot more martial arts, especially given their background in the Leage of Shadows.

Why does the bomb have a timer built in? If you use it as a generator you wouldn't put a timer on that thing.

Why didn't Batman dump the bomb in the ocean? It would have greatly reduced fallout.

Lewitts character felt a bit pointless until he was revealed to be Robin. I mean everything he does could have been done by Gordon as well. He just seemed a bit forced into the story.

 

Lastly the scene in Florence at the end. Just to bring some more evidence to the table (at least I assume it's new, I didn't read all the posts after all) that it wasn't a dream: he wouldn't even have to find the right Cafe right away. Alfred stayed in Florence for several days and had the same routine every evening, so he should find him eventually.

Furthermore even if the autopilot didn't work Batman could have gotten out as soon as the Aircraft could fly in a straight line. But the simplest proof would be, if there is no hint whatsoever that it should be a dream, then why should it be a dream? Especially when there is a hint (the autopilot), suggesting it is not a dream.