Election 2010 - Con/Lib Government

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Debates have often lead to "hostile negotiations" ...

 

Edited April 18, 2010 by Dannyboy-the-Dane

[Pestneb]

Well what a sound economic argument.

 

Thanks, but could you find me the part where I said it was an economic argument?

My reasons against the euro aren't economic, but cultural, I feel the euro has wiped out a little bit of charm from the countries that adopted it.

 

Economically

1)I have only heard largely negative discussions regarding the euro - I accept this isn't likely to be balanced, but it is my experience, and arguments put forth against it have been convincing

2)Non of the parties have convinced me that the euro is a good or bad thing economically

 

as such, economically I currently view the euro as a gamble, and taking into consideration my personal dislike of the currency I am against the euro.

If the Lib dems come out with an awesome reason why the euro makes sense, and it's accurate and correct, then I would accept its adoption, although I would still dislike it from a cultural point of view.

[ipaul]

Thanks, but could you find me the part where I said it was an economic argument?

My reasons against the euro aren't economic, but cultural, I feel the euro has wiped out a little bit of charm from the countries that adopted it.

 

Economically

1)I have only heard largely negative discussions regarding the euro - I accept this isn't likely to be balanced, but it is my experience, and arguments put forth against it have been convincing

2)Non of the parties have convinced me that the euro is a good or bad thing economically

 

as such, economically I currently view the euro as a gamble, and taking into consideration my personal dislike of the currency I am against the euro.

If the Lib dems come out with an awesome reason why the euro makes sense, and it's accurate and correct, then I would accept its adoption, although I would still dislike it from a cultural point of view.

 

I just think any adoption or non adoption of the Euro should be based in economics. I see your point about culture, but the argument is still tinged with that sort of short sighted nationalism for me. On a side note, could we not have a sort of Britain specific euro? Like the same currency, just with the Queen or whatever on it, to keep people like yourself happy. Rather like how Scottish notes are different to English ones, yet they are both pounds.

 

I'm not necessarily for or against the Euro, but chances are if the Lib Dems are saying it, it's the economically sound thing to do

[Pestneb]

I just think any adoption or non adoption of the Euro should be based in economics. I see your point about culture, but the argument is still tinged with that sort of short sighted nationalism for me. On a side note, could we not have a sort of Britain specific euro? Like the same currency, just with the Queen or whatever on it, to keep people like yourself happy. Rather like how Scottish notes are different to English ones, yet they are both pounds.

 

I'm not necessarily for or against the Euro, but chances are if the Lib Dems are saying it, it's the economically sound thing to do

 

lol.

It's not just the pound, it's all the ones that have already gone. I like Europe, but feel politicians are putting more power into the central European government so that there is a higher rung on their career ladder. Looking at luxembourg, they are one of the best countries in the EU, looking at raw numbers, yet they are also tiny. I think Government works best for people when it is smaller.

I think the lib dems have a policy where the curriculum would be controlled by the local authorities for example. Within reason (and I believe lib dems on this issue may be) I agree with that. Having local power means local people are best served so I really like that policy.

also, just a minor point, Clegg got the size of the current national curriculum wrong, and apparently the swedish curriculum is very similar in size to the British one.

 

As for the English Euro you suggested, they do do that already, but it doesn't work imo. It's hard to explain, but the shape, sizing and weighting of francs certainly (I'll use those as I have most experience with them) reflected the culture, where as on the Euro it feels very much a token measure.

 

I wouldn't call my argument nationalistic, although I happily admit it is more emotional than logical. As I believe I said earlier (but cba to check) I would accept the Euro in the UK, but only if I am convinced it has clear benefits.

 

As far as the lib dems go, the trident policy makes them absolutely unelectable for me. Though I get the impression is N-E was a constituency it would be a safe lib dem seat.

it may have been interesting to have had polls before and immediately after each of the debates, track and see how the debates influenced opinion...

[Fierce_LiNk]

I just think any adoption or non adoption of the Euro should be based in economics. I see your point about culture, but the argument is still tinged with that sort of short sighted nationalism for me. On a side note, could we not have a sort of Britain specific euro? Like the same currency, just with the Queen or whatever on it, to keep people like yourself happy. Rather like how Scottish notes are different to English ones, yet they are both pounds.

 

I'm not necessarily for or against the Euro, but chances are if the Lib Dems are saying it, it's the economically sound thing to do

 

I didn't used to think much about the Euro. Didn't have an opinion which was here nor there. But, I travel quite a lot to Belgium nowadays, and it is a bit of a pain in the arse transfering from one currency and then to the next. I think I'm getting a bit fond of the euro. Like you say, we could have a British Specific Euro. I'm pretty sure that Ine/Eenuh has shown me a variety of different Euros from different countries she's been to, with different designs on them relating to the country.

 

If the system was a bit complicated where you had something like 60 euro cents to a Euro, then I can see why we wouldn't like it. But...is it all that different to what we use in Britain? There's 100 cents to a Euro, and even the denominations are the same to what we have over here. From what I know, there are 1, 2, 5, 10, 20 and 50 cent coins and a one euro and two euro coin. Then you have banknotes. I personally just think the majority don't want to go with it because they feel they're losing some kind of British Identity by ditching the pound.

[Zell]

Although it's the next constituency along from me, I find the situation in Buckingham quite troubling. John Bercow is running to be re-elected as Speaker and as such, is running unopposed by the ''main parties''. A convention I really don't understand. He is being opposed by Nigel Farage, former leader of the UKIP party. But I can't see him as a real alternative, from what I've seen, he's an incompetent waste of space.

 

Hilarious. But still, tragic.

 

So in Buckingham you can vote for the house-flipping John Bercow, Numpty Nigel Farage, the BNP or some unknown independents. Democracy?

 

I live in Buckingham and I'm voting for Bercow (earlier post by me).

 

The Speaker is impartial and renounces his affiliation with his previous party when he becomes Speaker, and so is seen as being above party politics. So when he is running in an election, he has no policies or manifesto to support his "campaign". If the Speaker were to be unseated at constituency level, they would have to elect another Speaker. Imagine this scenario. Every general election the Speaker loses his seat, then another one is elected, who in turn loses his seat at the next election. No-one would want to become Speaker!

 

Of course the problem is that we can no longer vote for the major parties. I guess the argument is that for parliament to have a Speaker, it's only one out of 650 constituencies that has to suffer. In my opinion, once an MP has become the Speaker, that MP would then no longer represent that constituency and a by-election would be held.

 

I'm voting for Bercow for three reasons. Firstly, in my mind, a vote for the Speaker is a vote for parliament, which is what the Speaker represents. Secondly, he has been an outstanding servant to this constituency. Lastly, the only other choices are UKIP and BNP, and the only really reason they are standing against the Speaker is for publicity.

 

Speaking of UKIP, you cannot fault Nigel Farage for his effort. When I came back from uni a month ago and went into town, I noticed that UKIP had set up shop on our high street. Nigel Farage has been there every time I've walked past, while at the same time making appearances on HIGNFY, Question Time and Newsnight. My brothers went down the local pub last night, and they told me that Nigel was outside having a fag and chit chatting with the regulars.

 

Anyway... I can't see Bercow losing. He is liked a lot in Buckingham, and has a massive majority.

[Pestneb]

it is a bit of a pain in the arse transfering from one currency and then to the next.

 

they're losing some kind of British Identity by ditching the pound.

 

my big negative for the euro is it replaces national identity with a european identity.

At the moment a British person is British european, the Euro represents to me a move to make people think of themselves as European british.

 

I have no problem with my european or global identity, but my personal belief is that large governments are more self beneficial, whereas smaller governments serve their constituents better.

 

On the other hand, I am going into the continent later this week (hopefully) and I cannot deny that the euro is useful when travelling between euro countries

[Eenuh]

my big negative for the euro is it replaces national identity with a european identity.

At the moment a British person is British european, the Euro represents to me a move to make people think of themselves as European british.

 

I can say I still feel very much like a Belgian living in Europe. My nationality never changed with the introduction of the Euro, and I don't think anyone here feels like they lost part of their nationality with the loss of Belgian Francs. In my opinion, it's a bit silly to tie your nationality to a currency. It's just money. =P

[Fierce_LiNk]

my big negative for the euro is it replaces national identity with a european identity.

At the moment a British person is British european, the Euro represents to me a move to make people think of themselves as European british.

 

I have no problem with my european or global identity, but my personal belief is that large governments are more self beneficial, whereas smaller governments serve their constituents better.

 

On the other hand, I am going into the continent later this week (hopefully) and I cannot deny that the euro is useful when travelling between euro countries

 

Surely some sort of compromise can be met. Where you can regard yourself as British and European without favouring one over the other. It's the same within Britain. You can be both British and English, for example. You don't and shouldn't have to favour one over the other.

 

I do agree with your point about smaller governments.

[Pestneb]

I can say I still feel very much like a Belgian living in Europe. My nationality never changed with the introduction of the Euro, and I don't think anyone here feels like they lost part of their nationality with the loss of Belgian Francs. In my opinion, it's a bit silly to tie your nationality to a currency. It's just money. =P

 

reading over what I put I can now see that I did overstate my point.Iif the euro came in I wouldn't all of the sudden think "oh, I've lost my nationality". I just feel that there is more national identity expressed in national coinage.

I personally believe that our national identities are strengthened by what we share, and coinage is something that every economically active citizen is likely to come into contact with. Its a small point of commonality.

 

Having said that my argument, from a cultural point of view the argument stands against credit/debit cards as much as the euro and I'm not arguing against using those so :P

 

my main argument is I see it as a step towards big government. The cultural point is just sadness really, but realistically currencies were going to dissappear anyway.

[Sheikah]

I can say I still feel very much like a Belgian living in Europe. My nationality never changed with the introduction of the Euro, and I don't think anyone here feels like they lost part of their nationality with the loss of Belgian Francs. In my opinion, it's a bit silly to tie your nationality to a currency. It's just money. =P

Maybe your currency just sucked. :p

[Raining_again]

Well we have a Northern Ireland specific Sterling. It's a good idea in theory, getting english/scottish shops to accept it is a different matter. It's like dirty money to them! (especially our plastic fiver)

 

this:

 

 

Edited April 18, 2010 by Raining_again

[Ashley]

It looks like something from some anime set in the future.

 

But yeah, I personally feel no national pride while holding the queen in my hand. Mostly because I pay for most things on card.

[Eenuh]

Maybe your currency just sucked. :p

 

Haha noooo it looked quite awesome! Belgian_franc#Banknotes

 

 

They used Belgian artists etc. for the banknotes (at least the last set), with some of their work on the other side. This 200 BEF one is of Adolphe Sax, inventor of the saxophone. =)

[Sheikah]

Haha noooo it looked quite awesome! Belgian_franc#Banknotes

 

 

They used Belgian artists etc. for the banknotes (at least the last set), with some of their work on the other side. This 200 BEF one is of Adolphe Sax, inventor of the saxophone. =)

 

 

lol, what is Roger Moore doing there? :p

[Eenuh]

That's our king, Albert II. Looks nothing like Roger Moore I think. =P

 

[Ashley]

This 200 BEF one is of Adolphe Sax, inventor of the saxophone. =)

 

 

The Japanese 1000 Yen is quite cool, or at least the guy's haircut is.

 

Anyway umm election?

 

Got my polling cards recently and its at some place which I always thought was long abandoned. It looks empty/vandalised. But at least its on my route home after work.

[Nicktendo]

The Lib Dems don't support specifically joining the Euro, they support greater European integration.

[Debug Mode]

Although it's the next constituency along from me, I find the situation in Buckingham quite troubling. John Bercow is running to be re-elected as Speaker and as such, is running unopposed by the ''main parties''. A convention I really don't understand. He is being opposed by Nigel Farage, former leader of the UKIP party. But I can't see him as a real alternative, from what I've seen, he's an incompetent waste of space.

 

Hilarious. But still, tragic.

 

So in Buckingham you can vote for the house-flipping John Bercow, Numpty Nigel Farage, the BNP or some unknown independents. Democracy?

 

Nigel Farage for the fucking win. We are having our blood slowly sucked by fuckers from other countries, our taxes increase because of them, our laws are constantly in conflict with European law, its a total mess of a situation.

 

I couldn't give a toss any more about the politics of this country, so for his stance on our withdrawal from Europe alone, I will be voting for UKIP. It'l cut my taxes down, it'l give a big fuck you to the big three who wont offer a referendum because they know the majority of us are going to vote no (oh democracy), so fuck the entire situation.

 

And for those who care, the unedited version of the video Molly posted is below. I can't really fault Molly's version was posted as it is the top result on Youtube regarding the topic, but is a clearly censored piece from some bullshit online European Affairs video channel, unsurprisingly, based in Brussels.

 

[Pestneb]

Nigel Farage for the fucking win. We are having our blood slowly sucked by fuckers from other countries, our taxes increase because of them, our laws are constantly in conflict with European law, its a total mess of a situation.

 

I couldn't give a toss any more about the politics of this country, so for his stance on our withdrawal from Europe alone, I will be voting for UKIP. It'l cut my taxes down, it'l give a big fuck you to the big three who wont offer a referendum because they know the majority of us are going to vote no (oh democracy), so fuck the entire situation.

 

And for those who care, the unedited version of the video Molly posted is below. I can't really fault Molly's version was posted as it is the top result on Youtube regarding the topic, but is a clearly censored piece from some bullshit online European Affairs video channel, unsurprisingly, based in Brussels.

 

 

I do think farrage made some good points, but the way he made them was out of order. Having said that, if he had made his points in a more measured way he wouldn't have had the exposure he got. so perhaps it was just to get exposure that he was so rude. But he is right on many points, and if only for the european mistake I want Labour out (would conservatives have given us a referendum)

And debug, a referendum would have been useless, if we'd said no they'd just have kept asking us till we said yes (look at Ireland).

[Charlie]

Well we have a Northern Ireland specific Sterling. It's a good idea in theory, getting english/scottish shops to accept it is a different matter. It's like dirty money to them! (especially our plastic fiver)

 

this:

 

 

We have Scottish notes as well which lots of English people like not to accept, taxi drivers are particularly bad.

 

Although, my dad swears that once when he was in a restaurant in London he went to pay for his meal with a Scottish £20 note and the waitress said it was actually worth £21 because it was Scottish and gave him the change accordingly.

[Raining_again]

We have Scottish notes as well which lots of English people like not to accept, taxi drivers are particularly bad.

 

Although, my dad swears that once when he was in a restaurant in London he went to pay for his meal with a Scottish £20 note and the waitress said it was actually worth £21 because it was Scottish and gave him the change accordingly.

 

Yeah I remember the same from living in scotland as well, but people tend to be a little more accepting of Scottish notes than Irish.

 

I think the reason behind it is that most people think the whole of ireland uses the euro, when it's half euro half sterling! Two currencies in one country, god only knows what they were thinking!

[The fish]

Latest figures put the Lib Dems top. I really should have placed a bet one that a week ago, because, let's be honest, who'd have thought it?

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2613

[ipaul]

Latest figures put the Lib Dems top. I really should have placed a bet one that a week ago, because, let's be honest, who'd have thought it?

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/2613

 

I really hope this Lib Dem effect continues to snowball and doesn't disappear anytime soon. I'm so pleased to see in that poll how badly the tories are now doing. For so long this election looked like it would be an inevitable tory win, but now....maybe they can be kept out for a forth term

[BlueStar]

How is a UKIP vote going to cut your taxes when they're planning on spending an absolute fuckload more than even their own inflated figure of how much leaving the EU would save the country? Their manifesto is all populist stuff like increase the defense budget 40% which no actual indication of how they're going to pay for it.

 

As for the Lib Dem standing in the polls, even if those were the numbers in the election (33% Lib Dem, 32% Tory, 28% Labour or whatever the latest one was)they'd still have the least seats of the 3 main parties.

Edited April 19, 2010 by BlueStar