Fierce_LiNk Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I know we have a general news thread thing, but I wasn't entirely sure if eveeeery single piece of news is meant to go in there, or just small-time news. So, I thought this deserved it's own thread, because it is quite interesting, and there may be some good stuff to talk about in here. ~ ~ ~ Train robber Biggs wins freedom Great Train Robber Ronnie Biggs has been granted release from his prison sentence on compassionate grounds, Justice Secretary Jack Straw has said. Biggs, 79, is severely ill in hospital with pneumonia and doctors have said there is "not much hope" for him. Mr Straw said the decision had been based on medical evidence that Biggs's condition had deteriorated and he was not expected to recover. Biggs's son Michael told the BBC he was "absolutely delighted" by the news. Biggs was given a 30-year sentence, but after 15 months he escaped from Wandsworth prison in south west London by climbing a 30ft wall and fleeing in a furniture van. He was on the run for more than 30 years, living in Australia and Brazil, before returning to the UK voluntarily in 2001 in search of medical treatment. He was sent to Belmarsh high-security prison on his return before being moved to a specialist medical unit at Norwich prison. A Ministry of Justice spokesman says Biggs's licence conditions had to be officially signed-off before he is officially "released". That is expected to happen some time on Friday morning. Source: BBC - The Full Article is here, and it's worth reading, so do eet. ~ ~ ~ So, he's being released from Prison, and I guess he now has his "freedom." However, I guess there is split opinion over this decision to release him. He was ordered to serve a 30 year prison sentence, but subsequently escaped and has been living as a fugitive and a "celebrity" in Brazil. He has only served a fraction of this sentence. What do you think? I think there are quite a few interesting talking points here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soag Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think its about time to be fair, he is no harm to anyone and its not liked he killed anyone, just robbed a train (i dont think anyone was killed anyway). Im happy that he is getting released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 He'll be living the rest of his life in the hospital from the sounds of it. I wouldn't really consider him to be "free" at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaggis Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Unless he actually killed anyone whilst robbing this train, then I really don't see the harm considering his age and health status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 He'll be living the rest of his life in the hospital from the sounds of it. I wouldn't really consider him to be "free" at this point. Agreed, I'd be abit miffed possibly if say he was released after serving some of his sententce and then having a nice cushy house etc, but he's literally being freed because he's dying. I do think its a harsh punishment though, people murder people now and don't even get that...what happened?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I do think its a harsh punishment though, people murder people now and don't even get that...what happened?! Lawyers discovered all the cracks in the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) He stole a train containing £2.6m. No deaths were noted. He wasn't the only one involved http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Train_Robbery_(1963) Edited August 7, 2009 by Serebii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I agree with the general opinion here. I still don't get why economical crimes, no matter how big, can score you a much harsher punishment than personal crimes like rape or murder. What the heck is wrong with the system? So yeah, he's dying, he didn't kill anyone, and it's not like he's exactly free in the hospital. I see no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think the driver never recovered from the injurys he sustained during the robbery. Im split over this. Part of me thinks hes a sick old man who is going to die soon and should be allowed to be free. The other part of me thinks it takes the piss out of the system. Why shoudnt anyone else who has commited crimes escape (and in doing so breaking more laws) go on the run. Until they come to a point in there life where they need are ill and need the help of the NHS. Then come back get the help they need then only serve a short time before having to be released due to health reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellmeister Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well you are right on saying the law is undeniably screwed with sentencing, but going into more detail there is a bit of logic. Today's law has changed compared to back then. Long sentences would have been given for murder as well. On this subject I do agree whole-heartedly that the Biggsanator should be released since he is no longer a risk and when you bring up the boring yet important debate about tax-payers expense and over crowded prisons he should have been put up for parole a while ago I guess. Doesn't look like he's going to be parading around on the streets etc anyway considering he is living out of a tube. So we can all sleep safe at night knowing our trains containing millions are not under threat once again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 The other part of me thinks it takes the piss out of the system. Why shoudnt anyone else who has commited crimes escape (and in doing so breaking more laws) go on the run. Until they come to a point in there life where they need are ill and need the help of the NHS. Then come back get the help they need then only serve a short time before having to be released due to health reasons. I follow your logic, but if he was simply kept in prison without being given treatment etc., it's borderline inhumane. I don't believe as much in "punishment" as I believe in "rehabilitation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 You just don't get criminals like you used to, a nice and fairly clean crime, so I'm not too fussed he's getting out, who really got hurt as a result of what happened(I know some were hurt in the robbery, so don't be silly and tell me that). For that I'd say he's served the adaquate time you'd be required to these days anyway. Let the old man die in peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuwii Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 How did he get 30 years original sentence for robbery when murder normally gets 15. Put it this way would you rather someone kill your family or nick your car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I follow your logic, but if he was simply kept in prison without being given treatment etc., it's borderline inhumane. I don't believe as much in "punishment" as I believe in "rehabilitation". Im not saying he shoudnt get the treatment, that would be stupid. Im just not sure he should be getting out. I just not sure he paid for his crime. How did he get 30 years original sentence for robbery when murder normally gets 15. You dont get 15 years for murder. You get life qhich equates to 15 years with good behaviour. The rest of the train robbers only did 10 years. No one was actually saying he would have ever done 30 years,(well if he hadnt escaped he woudnt have) that was just the sentance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.C.G Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 So he robbed a train with 2.6m in it... big deal! our own government has stolen more than that recently by claiming it all as 'legitimate expenses' ok I get that 2.6m may have been a bigger deal back then but now, not so much... he didn't kill anyone in any case so meh, I just think thirty years for what he did was pretty harsh anyway he didn't serve it, he's been living allbeit on the run for most of it, it's good that they've now 'released' him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 So he robbed a train with 2.6m in it... big deal! our own government has stolen more than that recently by claiming it all as 'legitimate expenses' ok I get that 2.6m may have been a bigger deal back then but now, not so much... he didn't kill anyone in any case so meh, Wooo theft seems to be moraly ok now that the MPs have done it. Anyone know where i can find a veyron. I will go tooled up incase the owner gives me any jip, as apparently assault is ok as well. Well at least if its in the process of commiting theft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raining_again Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I don't think he's able to hurt any more people or steal anything, now that he's confirmed as being on his deathbed. I think its probably for the good of the family as well as the man himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.C.G Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Wooo theft seems to be moraly ok now that the MPs have done it. Anyone know where i can find a veyron. I will go tooled up incase the owner gives me any jip, as apparently assault is ok as well. Well at least if its in the process of commiting theft. Sheesh, I was just saying that by todays standards 2.6m isn't a lot when compared to how much our very own MP's have squandered... Of course theft is still a big crime but thirty years? when people who murder someone only get fifteen... it's hardly fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Lawyers discovered all the cracks in the law. I guessed, it was more a statement I suppose than a question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan_Dare Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 'Freedom' here is a matter of semantics- he's being moved to a state run prison hospital to a state run normal hospital- where he will almost certainly die. What is there to discuss? You can't ask that a dying man be made to serve more of a sentence when the sentence is totally meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I know we have a general news thread thing, but I wasn't entirely sure if eveeeery single piece of news is meant to go in there, or just small-time news. Just the stuff Dan thinks will make lose faith in humanity I think he said. Anyways I was reading about this when it started and I hoped he wouldn't "get out". "You do da crime, you do da time" I don't give a shit how sick he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 'Freedom' here is a matter of semantics- he's being moved to a state run prison hospital to a state run normal hospital- where he will almost certainly die. What is there to discuss? You can't ask that a dying man be made to serve more of a sentence when the sentence is totally meaningless. Precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Sheesh, I was just saying that by todays standards 2.6m isn't a lot when compared to how much our very own MP's have squandered... Of course theft is still a big crime but thirty years? when people who murder someone only get fifteen... it's hardly fair. You dont get 15 years for murder you get life which equates to 15 years. he would never have been expected to serve 15 years. The other robbers did 10. But he chose of his own free will to break out which im guessign would have meant he would have done at least the 30 years. But that was up to him. The MPs on the most part havent broke any laws. Im not saying they were right to do it (they clearly wernt) but they didnt break the law and mess some guys life up in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 7, 2009 Author Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think the driver never recovered from the injurys he sustained during the robbery. Im split over this. Part of me thinks hes a sick old man who is going to die soon and should be allowed to be free. The other part of me thinks it takes the piss out of the system. Why shoudnt anyone else who has commited crimes escape (and in doing so breaking more laws) go on the run. Until they come to a point in there life where they need are ill and need the help of the NHS. Then come back get the help they need then only serve a short time before having to be released due to health reasons. That's how I feel. I'm split in two just like you are. When he was living outside of the UK, he was treated as a minor celebrity, and I feel that he was doing his best to rub it in the faces of Scotland Yard or whoever that he had escaped their clutches. I'm not sure how accurate this is, but the Biggs article on Wikipedia also says that merchandise such as coffee mugs and t-shirts was sold with his face on in Rio. And, apparently, he has been back in England a few times, although under various disguises. Forgetting about whether his sentence was actually 10 or 30 years, or what the others had, he broke free from the prison, so he didn't do his time. But, at the same time, was his punishment too harsh in the first place? I don't know. Either way, what an extraordinary life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 ok I get that 2.6m may have been a bigger deal back then but now, not so much... It's about £38 million in today's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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