Does anyone else think this generation is poor?

[dwarf]

Defining genres matters for nothing when it comes to quality. How you became a staff member I don't know.

[Sheikah]

A game only defines a genre if it's fantastic. The N64 had far more than average of these games, thus it's definitely (for me) the best genre.

 

You're all blind if you think FPS games that will use reasonably the same formula until the end of time (but in HD!) mean that the current generation is the best ever. If that's the case, the most recent generation will always be better than any previous ones. Ya know, because it has 'improved'.

 

Think about it - how many times can you play reasonably similar games and then still claim that the next one you play is the best of its kind ever made? If you played Super Mario 9 for the Wii 6, would you still claim it to be the best platformer ever created? Even if it's using the same Mario formula?

 

Defining genres matters for nothing when it comes to quality. How you became a staff member I don't know.

 

For a start, I'm not a raging fanboy. =D

Edited July 28, 2009 by Sheikah

[Daft]

A game only defines a genre if it's fantastic.

 

But a game doesn't have to define a genre to be fantastic. The general standard of games now is as high as it has ever been.

[dwarf]

You're missing the point, obviously as generations go on improving the graphics doesn't lead to an increase in quality over the last generation, but as far as genres go there has been quite a vast improvement in the standards they set.

Goldeneye gave a great indication as to what shooters could be but it has very few features that you'd expect of todays games.

 

Online gaming is such a massive leap, and there are still plenty of new things coming out. Now we're seeing the current systems adopting new periphals to allow for more ideas.

 

There will always be a breakthrough for a genre and the 64 had a few of them, so what? They make for good memories but believe me games are advancing, otherwise you would've lost interest in them altogether.

 

And to that fanboy comment - No

Edited July 28, 2009 by dwarf

[Ganepark32]

In some ways, this generation has been fruitless but in others it hasn't. Reliability for consoles has gone out of the way leaving many to question what is the point if you're going to have to replace the damned thing a couple of months down the line. It's poor manufacturing and quality control that has let the consoles hit the market as they are and granted that every single console cannot be tested extensively, the component parts are supposed to be tested thoroughly before being placed into a machine. This has and still is the biggest reason why this generation has been rather poor.

 

Another is the continued saturation of the first person shooter market, with very little in the way having come to push the genre forward. Yes, online standards have been set and pushed in the genre harder than any other but when the core game is the exact same as 20 others on the market, what is the point. Developers have managed to make gamers think that with a new scenario, sometimes only slightly different, some different weapons and a robust online mode, that is now becoming standardised, that is an essential piece of software. The genre has pushed the online capabilities of consoles as well as on the graphical front but there are only so many shades of brown and grey you can handle before you've seen it all before.

 

That being said, this generation has brought in some fantastic titles. While it is an FPS, Bioshock changed things up by not only offering a change of location but also the way in which you played and the foreboding atmosphere that it presented. Bioshock stands as a perfect example of the originality that has come about this generation and in a genre where there is little. Titles like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect have shown a substantial leap in the way in which a gamer can become immersed in a media which many thought it'd never be possible. Having to make decisions that fall to life or death in these games is a powerful way to move consoles and gaming forward and towards that fabled 'Citizen Kane of gaming'. There are many more titles that have defined why this generation has been good, across all platforms so agruments of there being no quality titles on any of the consoles is dumb-founded.

 

Obviously, the movement into digital distribution has probably given rise to some of the best games this generation. While I can't really speak much for what is available on the PSN as I haven't been able to download anything yet, what is current available on the XBLA and the WiiWare/VC service has become a wake up call for lazy developers the world over where small, independent developers, with sometimes only 2 or 3 people developing, have managed to make some truly fantastic titles that even the biggest developers should take note of.

 

Finally, while the home consoles have provided ample entertainment, it is the handhelds that have really shown their hands as the forerunners of quality. Again, I can't speak much for the PSP as I don't own one but you can clearly see from the up and coming line-up to coincide with the release of the PSP Go that there is a significant amount of quality titles coming this year, more so than on the home consoles. The DS has probably done more for gaming than any other console this generation, pushing into the casual market and bringing in new gamers and some interesting takes on the term 'game'. It's also been an RPG powerhouse giving us a new Dragon Quest, as well as housing many an FF title along with one of the best modern RPGs in the form of The World Ends With You.

 

edit: apologises for the length. I got carried away.

[Cube]

But a game doesn't have to define a genre to be fantastic. The general standard of games now is as high as it has ever been.

 

It's also much harder to make a "defining" game when there are many more great games around. Newer games will borrow elements from various different games, thus it's harder to pinpoint the main inspiration.

 

And as much as I think it's an average game, most modern FPS games owe more to Halo than GoldenEye. As for platformers - Mario Galaxy and Ninjabread Man are the only Mario 64-inspired platformers I can think of this generation. Platforming is more an element that other games use than it is it's own genre.

 

The only thing that the N64 era is better at is split-screen multiplayer.

[Sheikah]

But a game doesn't have to define a genre to be fantastic. The general standard of games now is as high as it has ever been.

That post brilliantly points out the fatal flaw of video games currently. They have to adhere to a standard. This means that they have to include certain previously repeated elements in order to be accepted by fans of those particular genres.

 

Games these days just recycle gameplay. Obviously there are exceptions, but as I said, I prefer the N64 era for having far more inspired games than average. If you're able to embrace every new game as if it's something groundbreaking, then I applaud your ability to forget previous games!

 

Put it like this - If you gave a person who had never played a video game before a copy of Goldeneye 64 and a copy of, say, Resistance 2, it's no doubt they'd see Resistance 2 as the better game. But what you're doing there is comparing the games entirely at face value; which is completely wrong. If this was what game review websites did, they would constantly readjust their scores of video games each week - Ocarina of Time would probably be around 6/10 now due to its 'outdated visuals, small game map', etc.

 

It's incredibly shallow to toss aside classics simply because a company has had the audacity to rip away the heart of a few games, include a new story and bettered graphics, then call it a different game. If I've played a FPS these days, I feel like I've played them all. That's why new games should be rated on 'freshness'. For that reason, GTA3 would be seen as pretty awesome (which it rightly is), while consecutive sequels would be marked down for being essentially the same.

 

And to that fanboy comment - No

I'd say you're probably second to Choze in terms of PlayStation products. But probably right up at the top in terms of trying to provoke arguments. Edited July 28, 2009 by Sheikah

[Cube]

GoldenEye also borrowed a lot of elements from previous FPS games.

[Sheikah]

GoldenEye also borrowed a lot of elements from previous FPS games.

 

It also introduced far more to the FPS genre than it borrowed, and undoubtedly shaped the FPS genre as a whole.

[Daft]

I'd say you're probably second to Choze in terms of PlayStation products. But probably right up at the top in terms of trying to provoke arguments.

 

Oi! I've got more Playstation products than dwarf! Hell, I might even buy a PSP Go.

 

dwarf ain't got shit on me. He's a banned user. He got banned from PSN for abusing Home. I don't abuse Home because Sony made Home for me. Microsoft smell. PS3 4 EVA!!! I didn't include Wii because it is some shitty toy that only women and gays play.

 

PS3 is the only option. Peace out Xbots!

Sorry, I wrote the first line and just got carried away. We should seriously have a thread where everyone tries to be as fanoyish as possible. It is damn fun.

[dwarf]

I just don't like Sheikah, he obviously hasn't read enough of my posts to judge me and he blatantly uses moisturiser on his cock, so right now I couldn't care what he says.

 

Adhering to a standard - I don't know what you are expecting, for someone to make a game where you use the face buttons as a camera and the analogues to sing? Copying good ideas is the obvious thing to do because they work efficiently and they work well - for fun times. Then if you shape that idea and put enough uniqueness into it then you get a great product.

 

As for Resistance 2, okay it isn't that remarkable, but the game just ticked my boxes for what I wanted out of an online FPS.

 

And we should make the thread Daft suggested.

[Sheikah]

I just don't like Sheikah, he obviously hasn't read enough of my posts to judge me and he blatantly uses moisturiser on his cock, so right now I couldn't care what he says.

 

To be honest, I don't really care what someone so immature thinks of me. I can only assume that your over-reliance on petty, foul-mouthed insults is down to an inherent inability to express yourself in a meaningful manner. In the past few months you've deliberately posted to troll and cause offense; often in topics that I've posted in.

 

If you have a problem with other people's opinions, just put them on your ignore list.

[dwarf]

I only have an issue with ridiculous comments. And no, I usually argue my point with more than acceptable english but throw in an extra remark for people that think they're above everyone else. The remarks are usually jokey but in this case definitely not.

[Pit-Jr]

Let me just say that im disappointed that i now think of Nintendo as 'just another dev/publisher' instead of 'THE dev/publisher to beat' . They arent complete scumbags though. The IR pointer is a godsend for certain game functions, and the fact that they basically relaunched the incredible SNES era via Virtual Console cannot be overlooked.

 

Let me also renounce my past hatred of Sony for making PS3 my favorite home console ever (based on my own personal criteria), adding free and fluid online multiplayer, and maintaining a strong, steady release of solid and sometimes amazing games

 

And since i have both, there is ALWAYS something great to play any day of the year, making this hands-down the best generation ever

[Diageo]

he blatantly uses moisturiser on his cock

That is the weirdest insult i've ever seen. It doesn't even make a lick of sense.

[Dan_Dare]

Ity does, however, probably make nice enough lube.

 

and just because the n64 /ps1 gen did alot of things first, it doesn't mean they're still the best.

[Tellyn]

I just don't like Sheikah, he obviously hasn't read enough of my posts to judge me and he blatantly uses moisturiser on his cock, so right now I couldn't care what he says.

 

I really don't know how you get away with posting so much shit and insults. Moisturiser on his cock?

[Sheikah]

and just because the n64 /ps1 gen did alot of things first, it doesn't mean they're still the best.

 

Well this is just me, but games that aren't fresh - no matter how good the game's graphics and content is, will never be as good as the originals when it was all new to us. You could argue that you could use gaming newcomers to judge; but we're certainly not in that category, and we're judging here.

 

Examples! Pokemon (Red and Blue were amazing, then every game was pretty much the same since) 3D Zelda games (mostly very similar), Halo - yes they have a good online mode for 3, but the game is EXTREMELY similar to the point of disbelief across the three games. Then the golden example - GTA! Since the first proper 3D game on PS2, the map style, gameplay and concept is EXACTLY the same! Once you've played GTA3, no matter how good the newly added motorbikes/ability to own property/ride helicopter perks, the same core gameplay; what you will spend most of your time doing, is almost identical! That's why while at face value the current gen games can be seen as superficially 'superior', but they fail at a pivotal area of judgement - how fun they are to play by veterans of the series!

 

The same is true for so many FPS games today. Trawl through dungeons, usually starting with a shitty pistol/assault rifle. Go through the game to find (among slight variations):

- Some generic sniper rifle

- Brute force weapon - RPG or grenade launcher

- Melee/sword type weapon

- Shotgun

- Magnum

- Flamethrower

- Different grenade types

- A few random weapons

 

Usually you'll clear out enemies to progress through the stage, and break crates/look around for ammo. Often the whole thing will be arranged into acts/worlds, each with 3 or 4 stages, culminating in a boss.

 

So come on, let's be serious. You can't all really be saying that these games are the best ever made. If they're the best games ever made then I must have missed a trick, because finding that sniper rifle and Master Sword for the tenth time in better graphics with 40 hours more of sidequests isn't quite doing it for me anymore.

 

 

When something different does come along it is genuinely a pleasure to play...probably why I love Wii Sports so much!

Edited July 29, 2009 by Sheikah

[Caris]

This guy understands me.

[Cookyman]

Bloody hell it's all kicking off in here!

 

I've been a gamer for a long time (I remember playing pong in black and white with no sound in the 70's also had an Atari VCS gota love consoles with a wood effect finish).

 

Anyway heres is my 2 cents - The current generation of consoles deffo satisfies my gaming needs - My Wii sadly has been relegated since buying a PS3 but I firmly believe we've never had it so good when it comes to quality titles on our hardware of choice be that console or PC.

 

The arguement about the same type of games coming out is true e.g FPs's but they are now a genre of games in their own right and are slowly evolving and being refined. Movies are the same way e.g vampire movies - they have certainly evolved since Nosferatu in 1922 (mind you probably a bad example as Bram Strokers Dracula was a steamiing turd).

 

Christ I'm babbling - anyway in my humble opinion I am enjoying gaming this generation as much as I did in the past.

 

PS - use KY jelly on your cock - far better than moisturiser

Edited July 29, 2009 by Cookyman

[Ren of Heavens]

I think games like GTA IV and Halo 3 pretty much sums up this generation so far: Prettier graphics, questionable framerate, solid online, DLC and achievements, but the gameplay is essentially the same as back in 2001.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Ren of Heavens

[Nicktendo]

I have to agree 100% with Sheikah. This generation really hasn't done it for me and I hark back to the days where the N64 consumed my life (although as Dyson pointed out, it had a lot to do with growing up with the machine).

 

I think Sheikah raises plenty of interesting points that I would have to agree with. Mario 64 (or Banjo-Kazooie - which ever you played first :P) will always be the definition of platform gaming. It offered something comletely new to gaming and revolutionised how games were both made and played. To this day 3D platformers are loosly based on the framework set out by Mario 64. Mario Galaxy innovated with spherical planets etc. but essentially, it followed exactly the same design as the plumber's first 3D outing. Central-hub world (which sucked), individual themed worlds, complete task in each to unlock more, repeat, boss battle. The main draw of the game was messing around with gravity and engaging in the 'space' atomosphere.

 

Indeed, Galaxy however was much more linear than Mario 64, more simplified and was heavily reliant on nostalgia. Had they both been released under the same circumstances on the N64 though, and Galaxy would be most people's choice, including mine. Do I think it's the better game though? No. Strictly in the context of playing Mario 64 in 1997 and Mario Galaxy in 2007, 64 did so much more in terms of innovation and 'freshness' which ultimatly led to, for me, a more fun experience. It could be argued that too much of Mario Galaxy feels like re-tracing the same old tired steps (despite it's obvious elements of innovation) depending on how much time you've spent playing the genre since 1997.

 

The same could be said of Goldeneye. As someone who had never experience PC games (along with probably the majority of N64 owners) never before had I played a product similar to this game. It. Blew. My. 12. Year. Old. Mind. This game was the shit, I re-played every level countless times with cheats on and off, just because it was absolutely pure CLASS. Then what happened? Rare essentially made a Goldeneye Fan Service game set in the future with cooler weapons, REAL TIME LIGHTING!? (I couldn't believe how awesome it was to shoot out lights) and a ranking based single player / multi-player mode. Everything was Goldeneye 2.0, exactly how to do a sequal. Goldeneye laid the groundwork and Perfect Dark bulit New York f'n City on top of it. And why was it so good? If anyone remembers N64 Magazine used to run a feature where readers could ask for things to be made in the game and Rare did their level best to include it.

 

So why is it that the Genre has come to such a standstill? In my opinion it's because Perfect Dark was perfect. There were no flaws (in 1999) with that game. Everything since has had better tech and still hasn't surpassed it because nothing has innnovated (strictly in FPS, not necessarily FPA) in the way the double-punch combo of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark has, nothing has brought the sheer amount of freshness and innovation to the genre that those 2 games did. Timesplitters copied the formula exactly, and while it was fun, it was the second time round and still felt a bit lacking. Red Faction was the next great challeneger introducing the Geo-Mod physics which never truly took off but damn it was fun blowing up walls. This gen has focused so heavily on Online Multiplayer that a boring, linear, archaicly structured 5-hour single player snooze-fests is all we get now. That or a shit load of World War 2 bollocks.

 

Zelda and Majora's Mask gave us essentially the same situation. MM to a much lesser extent than Perfect Dark but it copied the basic premise of Ocarina of Time and took it to the next level and still innovated massively. Never has a video game presented a story as deep, dark and heart-felt as MM. Never has a game connected the gamer with a virtual world in such a symbolic and memorable way (through a simple diary none-the-less).

 

All of gaming's crowning moments of the past 10 years take us back to that very first time we did it. They also explain why games are lacking today. The innovation is not there, most developers seem content to push an element of a genre but not explore new, uncharted ground. Pokemon Red/Blue - Ocarina of Time - Mario 64 - GTA 3 -Goldeneye - these are the games that have innovated like no others before them. They are the reason the Fable's and Halo's of this world come under such heavy criticism because they don't do ENOUGH new and borrow too heavily from already existing genres, titles and ideas.

 

A final word before I go, my most played/favourite game on the Wii: Wii Sports. The first moment I hit that tennis ball I was in awe. My most played/favourite game on the Gamecube: Animal Crossing. Me and my ex-girlfriend played that game solidly for 2 whole years and still talk about all the crazy and funny stuff that happened in the town of Woody. My favourite game on the N64: Tie between Zelda 64 (reasons above) and Banjo-Kazooie. I played and finished it before I played Mario 64. All of those games offered something I'd never experienced before and that is why I love them so.

 

Sure I can appreciate when a game does something well and I can go back and play great games from the past few generations, especially the 16-bit era. But at the end of the day when a game does something new, it shifts the expectations so much higher and I'm yet to see that from the 360, the PS3 or the Wii (except Wii Sports ).

[dwarf]

I understand it when people say that playing those revolutionary games for the first time is a great experience, but you're comparing those games which were the cream of the crop in their hay-day with the large quantity of rubbish software out there currently on shelves when you should be comparing them with the big hitters from this gen.

 

There's always the mention of Zelda and Mario in their first 3D forms but really options are being limited from then onwards, it's not like the best developers of today aren't trying to push somewhere new - there's only so much you can change with the same controller - we've recently had some seriously memorable games from consoles that have only been out a few years.

 

There have been stand-out games for every generation and it's easy to look back and remember those few amazing innovators but incredible game experiences are rife whichever era you look at.

 

So why is it that the Genre has come to such a standstill? In my opinion it's because Perfect Dark was perfect.

You can't have much experience with FPS, and even if you are a believer in the genre coming to a standstill (OK its getting a bit worn as years come and go) because of Perfect Dark, well... Laughable really.

 

 

And believe me I've played pretty much what are called the classics, and I'd rate games from this gen as well or even better experiences than those. There's so many worthy purchases that I'm spoilt for choice, and in multiple genres to may I add.

I don't think I've said 'genre' this many times in a 5 hour period.

Edited July 29, 2009 by dwarf

[Shino]

I can't be bothered to put "Thanks" under every Sheikah's post. But although I agree with almost every point he made, I'm not disappointed with this gen, because even though I value what he says above what we have now, I think current games have still been as entertaining as before. But then again, I only have Wii/PC.

[Dante]

Caris, I agree 100%. I spend all my gaming time playing GameCube, PS2 and DS, and even with the latter, I feel the sub-N64 graphics seriously harm the games!

 

What!?!!

To end on a positive note, the PS3 and Xbox 360 are both fantastic pieces of hardware and once they have "settled down" (price cut and slim version for the PS3 and the "Valhalla" or better for the Xbox 360) and attracted the big games like Dragon Quest back, I can see this generation eventually becoming as good as the last.

 

Bad example to use Dragon Quest series as attraction of big games, Dragon Quest series is known to go onto the hardware that has the most sales of the gen of time ie Snes, PS1, PS2, DS and Wii.

 

The reason this gen is poor Caris is because the consoles started on many mistakes and the gaming market is now forced on DLC, FPS, Action Horror,peripherals, graphics > gameplay, achievement/trophys, non local multi player,realism,3D, SKUs and mandatory installs.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Dante