jayseven Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I don't really know what I'm trying to say. Most of the time, anyway. When someone interrogates me with their personal issues, I try to believe that I know the right answers, that they'll be summoned in time, even though I tend to just sit there and wait for my mind to catch up with the processes and tell me what it finds once it's thought through the reasoning and is done with its recesses, ready to unwind the truth, the logic, the words that I need to use to convince my friend that everything is ok, that everything is alright. On TV you see the quick dialogue; someone says "my husband died because of me" and the other person goes "he didn't die because of you, he died for you," and the first person is all smiles and thankful of the right words at the right time. It is such a rarity to ever really connect with another person. I'm not trying to big myself up when I say I've met a lot of people, but I would say that I have only ever truly connected with maybe ten people. Those moments when you feel as if you're practically inside their head - when you know you're saying not only the truth but what they want to hear. When you encounter someone on the verge of a breakdown, or in dire need of help... The few select lines that you utter can change their lives, and you both hope it will be for the better. The first time that i can remember was... well it was probably a long-ish story. My best friend who we'll call Guy was, at the time, going out with the girl we'll call Charlotte. Now, her best friend, we'll call Stephanie, was having a house party. We must've been about 16, if even that. Alcohol and music somehow led to the fact that Guy was going to sleep in Stephanie's bed, and Charlotte was clearly upset, but everyone let it happen. The next day I go downstairs to find Charlotte playing blink 182 on a stereo, all by herself, crying. Eventually Stephanie called me into her room (where I slept, while she slept in the attic with Guy) and she told me that the Guy had basically raped her, and that, of course, she was scared not only that she'd lose her best friend but also that she'd break up her relationship with Guy. To cut a long thread short... How do you deal with other people's problems? Do you give them quick, socially acceptable advice? Do you sacrifice your own life, in any way, in order to ease theirs? Can you really ever know if you're doing the right thing? I mean, it is a rarity to see your friends truly crying. Just you and them. You've somehow stumbled into a private moment, so how do you deal with it? In reflection, several of the other moments in my life where a similar thing happened have been almost haunting to me; the memories almost scar me. Some of them have left me in shock. One time a friend told me that her mother wasn't just dead, but was murdered. How do you deal with that sort of information? How can you really be in any sort of position to give any sort of advice? ... I don't really know where this thread is going, even if it is going anywhere, but there are just ghouls in my vision that are distracting me from my own life sometimes, and one of them is precisely this matter; my own life distorted in the aid of another's healing. If you have any... any connatative thoughts, please share them. It'll help, me at least!
Dyson Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I read the entire post and considered it for a few minutes before replying. It's strange; as I know exactly what you mean here as I tend to be the goto guy for my friends when something goes wrong, and it always seemed so serious. Friendship squabbles, petty relationship arguments etcetera. I was great at telling people what they wanted to hear and being on everyone's side, and that's what felt like the right thing to do. That was until girl X, we'll call her Mary, told me about her past and the different ways in which she dealt with things, and how I helped her with them. In the past she'd been raped and abused as a child and has since self harmed and had several suicide attempts. I found myself at one of the very rare points in time when I was speechless and didn't know what to say, and the worst part was knowing that she wanted me to say something that'd make it all better and I was unable to produce. And it's been happening more and more frequently for me lately. Another girl who we'll call Amy has come to me with several problems and revelations that I didn't expect/work out and given our current friendship status it hurts that I'm unable to give her the advice she wants to hear or indeed advice that helps in any great way. In truth I don't have much life experience at all and yet people still come to me in the hopes that I can make things better for them, and when I can't, I always feel bad about it, which I don't suppose is too fair on me really but I still offer people the help they so want. This post didn't really answer any of your questions j7 but it helped me work things out a little bit and consider some inner workings. I appreciate it. Hope it helps you in some way, perhaps.
jayseven Posted June 13, 2009 Author Posted June 13, 2009 It did. What you say about them 'wanting to hear something but being unable to respond' is precisely what I was thinking when making the post. Recently I met this girl, who I'll never meet again, who acted like a complete slut; she had big boobs and was pretty, and she knew how to get her way with guys. Well, we were at a party and I basically ignored her for the entire night because I didn't want her to think that her sexual wiles were working on me! Eventually she literally trapped me in the kitchen, and tried to make me swoon -- and I admit, I found her exceedingly attractive - but instead of letting her play with me, I said to her "I know what you do, I know how you do it, and it won't fool me." She was taken aback; shocked that a red-blooded male wasn't just staring at her boob canyon. To sum it up; we ended up talking for over an hour. People kept appearing behind her (she still had her hand on counters either side of me so I couldn't escape) feigning sexual whatevers... But I got to know this complete stranger more than her own best friends. I found out she was sexually assaulted as a child, she was clinically mental, she had attempted suicide a couple of times... All sorts of crazy shit that you don't expect to hear at a random party with friends... And I unleashed unto her a bunch of my own problems and we really connected and understood one another. We both knew we couldn't help each other, but it was one of those moments where you know you're truly communicating on such a truthful level. While she flirted with the other guys, and got pretty much all of their numbers, I felt (somewhat egotistically) that I was the only one that really connected with her. Yes, it made me feel a better person for not just seeing her as eye-candy, not jumping her like all the other dudes were, but besides this was the fact that we properly communicated on a personal level about deep, intense issues in a way that, I hope, made a difference to both of us. These instances are so damn rare, and so damn weird. Suddenly you realise "oh shit, this is one of those talks" and you just know that the moment will be carved into your mind, forever. Moments of connection like these are moments I will forever remember. They are what make me feel human, they make me feel brittle, like the skin and bone that I am. A mortal shape that is no different to a pig -- except for the mind that shares in communion its painful scores, with the odd strangers and passing bleats of beings that other people just really are. Again - I don't think this post adds anything to yours, dyson, but this thread is more about just adding a spore to the hive of feelings that most of us have waltzed through in our lives. And yes, I am drunk, but I don't care. I think, really, I just wish that RIGHT NOW I had such an odd stranger walk into my life so we could exchange weaknesses and find strength in our own advice.
Dyson Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 It did. What you say about them 'wanting to hear something but being unable to respond' is precisely what I was thinking when making the post. Recently I met this girl, who I'll never meet again, who acted like a complete slut; she had big boobs and was pretty, and she knew how to get her way with guys. Well, we were at a party and I basically ignored her for the entire night because I didn't want her to think that her sexual wiles were working on me! Eventually she literally trapped me in the kitchen, and tried to make me swoon -- and I admit, I found her exceedingly attractive - but instead of letting her play with me, I said to her "I know what you do, I know how you do it, and it won't fool me." She was taken aback; shocked that a red-blooded male wasn't just staring at her boob canyon. To sum it up; we ended up talking for over an hour. People kept appearing behind her (she still had her hand on counters either side of me so I couldn't escape) feigning sexual whatevers... But I got to know this complete stranger more than her own best friends. I found out she was sexually assaulted as a child, she was clinically mental, she had attempted suicide a couple of times... All sorts of crazy shit that you don't expect to hear at a random party with friends... And I unleashed unto her a bunch of my own problems and we really connected and understood one another. We both knew we couldn't help each other, but it was one of those moments where you know you're truly communicating on such a truthful level. While she flirted with the other guys, and got pretty much all of their numbers, I felt (somewhat egotistically) that I was the only one that really connected with her. This reminds me heavily of someone I once met and ended up hooked on. I talked to you about her several times as I'm sure you'll remember, couldn't get her out of my head. In fact she was one of the two mentioned above, and we had something very similar. We met briefly one night through her brother and established our communications with each other through Facebook and then MSN. We got talking and we got to trusting each other so much that we felt like we could tell each other absolutely anything. Why? I know I don't know and I'm sure she doesn't either but I could take a stab in the dark at it; when you confide in a stranger you have nothing to lose. This person isn't going to affect you if they drop out of your life and on the other hand you have everything to gain, you might meet someone who really can help you or has been through similar situations. In this case we connected on an extreme level. She had problems and no matter what I was able to say the right thing, offer her true advice and the bond between us grew. It was at this point, after several months of mutual advice giving that we decided that we had to meet up, this level of trust couldn't be shared between pure strangers, there had to be something there, surely. Ultimately, we met up, had a great night out and ended up having sex, and from the moment we started kissing that night I knew that there was no going back - that was it. Our friendship was no more. And why? How? To this day I don't know. All I know is that the moment we started to really know each other and become a part of each others' lives my ability to help her with any of her problems disappeared. I ended up very emotional for the following two weeks at the loss of not only a friend, but someone I knew I could trust and tell anything to. And everything was going perfectly until we knew each other. Not in the sense of thinking we were different people on the internet compared to real life - we were very much the same in that respect. But the moment we physically and realistically were able to affect each other is the moment everything changed. Plenty more happened after this, learning things I wish I'd known beforehand, for example, her sexual history and how she used it as one of her tools to de-stress - but even if I did I don't think it would have changed. And yet I look back on that situation now and I don't regret a thing. Initially I was distraguht, but I was able to move on, regardless of the fact that there's now someone out there who knows my deepest darkest secrets - someone else will come along who I can place my trust in. And I think someone has. I don't see the relationship with her being that of an ultimately sexual nature, as if that was the final goal of both of us communicating, much like you talked about connecting and communicating, it was just a natural step for the friendship to take. And yes, I am drunk, but I don't care. I think, really, I just wish that RIGHT NOW I had such an odd stranger walk into my life so we could exchange weaknesses and find strength in our own advice. It could happen when you least expect it, and I'm sure you know that just as well as any of us. For me it happened when I went in to the flat next door at uni to borrow their vaccuum cleaner, they were having a gathering and I popped my head round the door. Couple of months down the line I was spending £50+ of my own money to go and see the girl I met in such a way.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Whoa, deep stuff, guys. I'm afraid I won't be of much help, as I really don't know know how to handle such situations. While I've never experienced it to the same degree as you, I am also the type of guy who tries to help my friends in any way that I can. Often it's not too serious, and thus it's not too hard to give some advice, but I do remember a few times where I've thought: "Damn, this is actually quite serious," and that made me it more difficult because I knew more was at stake. So yeah, I'm afraid I really don't know what else to say.
Ganepark32 Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 It's remarkable when you think about it. How many people have you truly connected with? I've only ever truly connected with one person in my entire 20 years of 'living' and its strange because you know, you meet all these people throughout your life, many of whom will be your friends while some will just be an insignificant blot on a piece of paper, and yet, as you guys have said, it's incredibly rare you'll ever connect with them in any meaningful way. Like Dyson, I was sort of a go-to guy for help and stuff with friends but with friends, there's this thing that prevents you from ever truly unveiling yourself so the help or what have you is superficial because you're basically giving them what they want to hear yet not knowing on a real level whether it's the right thing or not. There's this veil that we all put on; a coat of armour to hide or cover up our feelings and problems and no matter how close we are to friends, we'll never fully remove it. For me, even with people who I've know for many years and have been friends since the day we met, I certainly couldn't sit down and pour my heart out to them, asking for advice because it doesn't feel right as it can affect a relationship. Think that's the main thing behind it really. The only person I've ever connected to in a similar way that you two have was with this girl at college. I say girl but she's a considerable amount older than me. It was the first day after our two classes had been joined together due to people dropping out and was lunchtime and we were the only two people sitting in the classroom. We had never spoken before that moment, and we didn't even know each others names but suddenly, we just sparked up this meaningful conversation about our lives that went on for an hour. It was so invigorating to be able to open up to someone, learn something about someone else's experiences and see the parallels between your lives. She told me about her problems and the tough times she went through and I did the same and we connected on this level that you rarely do and it was like... wow. Just so strange that two people who are completely different in age and lifestyle, who had never met can suddenly, in an instant, be connected on the highest level and I think she was grateful for having me there to open up to because I wasn't like the other people on the course who only thought of one thing, two if you counted football, and I think that's one of the reasons we got that connection. But like Dyson's case, the more we saw of each other it sort of ruined this friendship we had created in that instant and by the end of college, we never spoke to each other any more. Before, we could talk and I was able to help but the more we were around each other, I just couldn't manage it. Yeah, very strange when you think about it all. Glad I read this as it's allowed me to remember my instance of connection with someone.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I disagree. I open up most and easiest when around friends, and I know I can tell them about my deepest feelings. Our friendships are based on truly being ourselves, and so I have a hard time imagining our friendships being ruined should we one day need to pour our hearts out. Sure, we may be startled, disturbed, get angry or sad, but in the end I think we'd emerge stronger than before.
EEVILMURRAY Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 you're basically giving them what they want to hear yet not knowing on a real level whether it's the right thing or not. I like to check. My advice comes with a follow-up session. Just in case anything has changed.
Gizmo Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I don't think I've ever had such a connection. Perhaps this is why I am generally on the outskirts of any social group I become involved in. Just unable to actually become close in that way. I see people around me developing relationships, and I don't know how it came about; just two people I know who suddenly become much closer friends than I thought. Yet this never happens with me.
Raining_again Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I don't think I've ever had such a connection. Perhaps this is why I am generally on the outskirts of any social group I become involved in. Just unable to actually become close in that way. I see people around me developing relationships, and I don't know how it came about; just two people I know who suddenly become much closer friends than I thought. Yet this never happens with me. I pretty much feel the same way. I haven't got the courage to be myself I suppose.
EEVILMURRAY Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I pretty much feel the same way. I haven't got the courage to be myself I suppose. We've had a dynamite connection! At least... so I thought
jayseven Posted June 13, 2009 Author Posted June 13, 2009 I met one of my closest friends at a party, where everyone was in one room and he was in another, by himself, looking at books on a bookshelf. I ended up sitting and talking with him for at least 2 hours, about all sorts of crazy shit. The quiet ones are the ones who are most likely to surprise you.
Rummy Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I get this thread so much right now, it's unbelievable how freaky your timing is jay, but in this moment I just can't contribute, I'll maybe be back later.
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I think I've definitely been in this role at various points in my life, although I'm not sure if I'm in it right now or not. Generally, I think people do tell me a lot of stuff, quite a bit of stuff that we only keep to ourselves, so it must mean that they feel safe talking to me or something. It's never a bad thing, to have that sort of connection. It's part of being a good friend I think, being a good listener. Sometimes people never expect you to say anything back, or anything that will instantly solve their problems, but just being there can help I think.
Dan_Dare Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I don't think I've ever been one for people confiding in me. But then, I keep myself to myself most of the time too. Maybe I've just not got the kind of friends that do that stuff.
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I don't think I've ever been one for people confiding in me. But then, I keep myself to myself most of the time too. Maybe I've just not got the kind of friends that do that stuff. To put it bluntly, it's because yoooou suuuck. You ain' gettin' to no choppa.
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 Haha, good comeback. The funny thing about being "the one people confide in" is that it might seem like a rubbish place to be when you're younger. But, as soon as you get older, it's a more attractive quality, in my opinion. It's as if people just don't have much time for others once they get past the age of 21, so to have the ability to talk to someone and share things, it seems that bit more special. I dunno, maybe the opposite is true?
MoogleViper Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I think I've only got one friend that I actually connect with properly. And I don't think she truly understands me. (not trying to sound emo-ish here, will post more when I haven't got a party to go to.)
Haden Posted June 13, 2009 Posted June 13, 2009 I have one friend that when we go out we connect cause we both have the same sense of humor and like to do the same things theres never an issue of any awkwardness its like we are brothers. But we dont chat about deep stuff hardly ever unless we are both drunk. But I like it that way I dont know I have never been one to chat to real life friends about my gfs for example.
EEVILMURRAY Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Only because I aint got time to bleed. Then Arnie [iE Everyone] can't kill you. Thus you have plenty of time to get to the choppa.
mariosmentor Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Spooky reading you're message. I too seem to be a "go to guy" for problems. Don't know if it's the same thing but I used to think kinda like that. My problem was always not that I didn't know the right thing to say, because in reality there isn't really a definitive right like the movies, but I didn't want to say the wrong thing and lose someone. I would focus so much on what to say when people were vulnerable and that when it came to a response it became little, weak or none at all. The fear of inadequacy in a friends desperate times would eat away at me through the whole discussion. Which is not a bad thing entirely, sometimes if people have problems they only want someone to listen and understand what they are going through. I guess seeing that vulnerability scared me in someway because it's not the person I know anymore and to watch someone close to you stoop to despair has to have some effect. It may be cheesy and no use to you but I've found that truly listening, caring for them more than myself and being honest in words and actions is good.(if your repulsed/angry/sad then show it more than likely they'll be happy to see an emotional reaction from you) Losing yourself in the persons problems helps, people have a tendency to listen to problems and focusing on the issues it creates for themselves. Just try to be natural man, being in that caring position just takes time getting used to but also that there is no wrong, only what you feel and accepting that "sh*t happens" is law of the universe if you do fail to comfort someone, you'll meet someone who is inconsolable. Just don't look at it as a failure on your part, you did your best. Hard to put into words man but I hope that was some help to ya.
Beast Posted June 14, 2009 Posted June 14, 2009 Weird reading this, I'm like that. Everyone comes to me whenever they have a problem, like I always have the answer no matter what. Most of my mates have told me their deepest darkest secrets and wanted my advice on what to do about them. One of my mates is a girl and she recently told me she was a lesbian and fancied another one of my lesbian mates even though she had a boyfriend. She said he was a 'cover' because he didn't want anyone to find out her true sexuality. The reason why she couldn't come out was because she was afraid that her mother would disown her and she asked what she should do. I just said 'just tell them gently, it's not fair on you, you shouldn't be going through this. You are yourself, you've not changed in any way.' and she told her mom and she wasn't upset about it. I've had loads more than that though. I'm what you call the 'go to' guy but I don't mind it to be honest. I always tell them it's what I would do and it's up to you whether you follow what I'd do or not. I hate it when people come back and blame me, I just say 'I didn't force you, I just told you what I would do' and then they agree, haha. I feel like Jeremy Kyle half the time, lmao.
nightwolf Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I believe I've connected with all of one person in my life, he is my best friend and knows everything I've been through, everything I'm doing and everything I hope to do. It is a strange thing to connect so deeply with somebody that you feel almost as if that person is you, I sometimes feel very lost if I don't see him for a long time, as though I may explode from all the thoughts in my head that I can only share with that person. In situations of people you don't know, it should just be a case of listening, alot of the time I find the person tells me because I'm not going to judge them or spread it to anybody else, I'm a stranger, therefore the secret is safe. Theres been a few people I've told my life too, stuff I would never reveal to friends or family. I don't have an answer, I don't feel there is one, every situation is different and each person deals with sharing differently, its just acting appropriately at the time and keeping your mouth closed.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted June 15, 2009 Posted June 15, 2009 I always tell them it's what I would do and it's up to you whether you follow what I'd do or not. I hate it when people come back and blame me, I just say 'I didn't force you, I just told you what I would do' and then they agree, haha. This sounds like the best idea, TBH. They come to you because they value your opinion, ergo they must think that whatever you would do is something worth trying out. Even if it fails.
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