Grazza Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 I've been replaying Wind Waker recently, and I also had a run around Twilight Princess last night and I was thinking what things I'd like kept in the next game. I don't mind what the story is or whether it's cel-shaded or realistic, it's mainly technical things I'm thinking about here (but also some non-technical). By the way, I'm generally categorising them by the 3D game I first remembered them being implemented in, but my memory's not perfect! Also, I've left off the really, really obvious things like arrows, bombs and boomerang. Link to the Past Automatic Armour Upgrades - I would like to get back to the idea of having upgraded armour that was comprehensively better than Link's green outfit and had no drawbacks (unlike the fire-weak Zora outfit in TP). This would be automatic, like LttP and unlike OoT. Link could go from traditional green outfit, then to blue and eventually to a light chainmail. Ocarina of Time (and earlier games) Power Bracelet - One of the appealing things about this item is that it has more recently been an automatic upgrade rather than something you have to equip. Throwing huge rocks out of the way is one of the highlights of Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker for me! It's satisfying to feel Link is stronger than he was at the beginning, and is even more so a great way of allowing you access to previously restricted places. Fire, Ice and Light Arrows - I'm a fan of the items that upgrade Link (like the Power Bracelet), rather than "sidestep" items. Much fun can be having experimenting with the physics these items provide, burning curtains and freezing Wizzrobes! Mirror Shield - I really enjoy the progression of going from Wooden, Hylian and then to the Mirror Shield. The multi-mirror puzzle in Wind Waker has to be one of the best. I believe MotionPlus could allow us this item back, because it'll be like having a 2nd analogue stick again. Majora's Mask Full 3D Towns - I loved the towns in this game (and Wind Waker). Zooming the camera out into a near-overhead view just ruins the immersion. Tingle - He just sets the right tone! Wind Waker 1st-Person View Any Time - In Wind Waker, you can flip into 1st-person perspective any time you like, whichever building you're in, whatever you want to examine. Full 3D Environments - Wind Waker is still the most technically amazing Zelda, I feel. When you're in many of the buildings, you can see the 3D world calculated outside as you look out the windows. Camera Control - OK, this one's a long shot, but with MotionPlus, I feel a button could be held down and the remote could enter "2nd analogue stick emulation mode". Using Enemies' Weapons - It was so much fun to pick up an enemy's sword or staff and throw it back at them or use it to cut down down a doorway or column. Like the fire and ice arrows, this just gives a sense of physics-based "play". It felt like real progression. Automatic Sword and Shield Upgrades - The Mirror Shield and Master Sword are comprehensively better than the previous models, so why would we need the option to equip the older ones? Deku Leaf - A brilliant way to get to secret areas. It's a thrill when you see somewhere you might be able to glide to and then you actually can! Moblins - Perfected in Wind Waker. Wizzrobes - Introduced in Majora's Mask, perfected in Wind Waker. Darknuts - These were good in all the games, but Wind Waker's are probably my favourites. I would like the axe ones from Ocarina too. Twilight Princess Bomb-Arrows - This should be one of five types of arrow, in my opinion. Great fun to blast rocks out of the way. Aquatic Bombs - Simply very useful. Clawshot - Simple and a brilliant evolution. Beast Riding - In the next game, I'd like Link to be able to climb onto whatever creature is around, whether that's Epona, a boar, a dragon or an eagle. Shield Bashing - When playing Wind Waker recently, I really miss being able to bash the enemy with my shield! No bad comment on Wind Waker, of course, but it shows it was a good addition. Swordfighting Moves - Helm Splitter, Back Slice and all the others, especially the Finishing Move. That's the other thing I really want to do in Wind Waker now. Phantom Hourglass Infinite Wallet - Because we really, really don't need the two "rupee" problems of Twilight Princess back! Anyway, I'll call it a day for now! I really think a technically-brilliant game will make for a most satisfying experience.
Fierce_LiNk Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Cool thread, dude. I'm going to base my opinions on the last Zelda game, Twilight Princess, and maybe go further back a bit later. Dude, you should be shot for not mentioning either the spinner or the ball and chain! Twilight Princess really had some great ideas, and I'd like to see these explored further in the next game. Ideally, I'd also like more swords, weapons and shields besides the regular Master Sword and Hylian Shield. Whilst they are good, I think we need additional items, just to spice things up. Something like the Biggoron's Sword/Giant's Knife, the Mirror Shield..these are great examples. Maybe they could be prizes as part of the sidequests, so not main weapons?
Guest Captain Falcon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Just thought I'd say that the Dark nut with an axe from Ocarina is in fact an Iron Knuckle and if you were going to mention any light/mirror based puzzles, you should use the excellent ones from MM's Stone Tower Temple. I think a lot of the things you've listed would have been a given if the next Zelda was going to be in the vein of the older games but I just wonder how it's going to turn out. I think certain things will be downplayed in order to make it simpler to grasp for the masses - though I'm sure it will still be a triple A title. I do disagree with some of the things you've asked for though. Auto upgrade armour - if it's a substantial change to his appearance, I don't want it. I want to be able to wander around in clothes as green as the plains Link explores. The suits in OOT weren't armour upgrades as such, they were functionality upgrades like the Zora armour in TP and to a lesser extent, the Magic Armour. Fire Ice and Light arrows - I'm glad they got a break in TP. They added nothing to OOT and little to WW. MM made a better use of the ice arrow by making it create frozen platforms in water, but not much else. Automatic Sword and Shield Upgrades - the swords I have no problem since I would never use anything other than the Mastersword if given a choice and I'm assuming that to be the most powerful sword. If it isn't, some one a Nintendo needs to be fired - don't give me any Golden Sword Rubbish, it's still the Mastersword under the additional magic and smithy work. As for the mirro shield though, I take it you never noticed the different functionality beyond reflecting light. The mirror shield in OOT would cause any projectile that hit it to break, whereas the Hylian shield would reflect it. To me, this made the Hylian shield more useful as certain enemies attacks (I'm looking at you Octorok) can be used against them.
Emasher Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 The enemy system of Wind Waker. The enemies in Wind Waker just seemed very organized and it felt like they all had their place in ganon's army. I'd like to see it expanded on though. Perhaps you can keep their weapons with you after you kill them, but they break after so many hits or something. Being able to access lots of areas early on in the game, from OoT. When I first played OoT, I really liked how you could go to places like lake hyilia ect, before you actually could do much in there, but you could explore them and ponder what would happen there latter on.
Patch Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Dude, you should be shot for not mentioning either the spinner or the ball and chain! Twilight Princess really had some great ideas, and I'd like to see these explored further in the next game. Yes! Those items were amazing and totally unexpected. I would like to see them used more. Link to the Past I would love to see the dash boots (whatever they were called) that let you run on the spot for a sec, then charge forward, sword in front. In 3D that would be pretty hilarious! Majora's Mask The realtime mechanism was great - people following set paths and all that. Perhaps some time-travel related item would let you revisit scenes from different perspectives somehow.
Grazza Posted March 16, 2009 Author Posted March 16, 2009 Cool thread, dude. Ah, thanks! I actually created it because you said you appreciated people making threads! Dude, you should be shot for not mentioning either the spinner or the ball and chain! Twilight Princess really had some great ideas, and I'd like to see these explored further in the next game. The Spinner is great fun. I wouldn't mind it kept in Twilight Princess though, as it's very environment-dependent and not really an upgrade to Link. Still great though. The Ball & Chain was intentionally unwieldy, so whilst I didn't mind it, I could do without it. It did add a certain panic though, as you had to find the balance between building up momentum and releasing it before those ice creatures froze you! Ideally, I'd also like more swords, weapons and shields besides the regular Master Sword and Hylian Shield. Whilst they are good, I think we need additional items, just to spice things up. Something like the Biggoron's Sword/Giant's Knife, the Mirror Shield..these are great examples. Maybe they could be prizes as part of the sidequests, so not main weapons? I definitely like three swords and three shields. The two-handed swords are indeed great fun. I think a lot of the things you've listed would have been a given if the next Zelda was going to be in the vein of the older games but I just wonder how it's going to turn out. I think certain things will be downplayed in order to make it simpler to grasp for the masses - though I'm sure it will still be a triple A title. I think you are right. I keep thinking "Dragon's Lair" - not necessarily in a negative way, but I think a lot of emphasis is going to be put on the presentation. We already have a hint that they want people to be able to watch it like a cartoon or film. Automatic Sword and Shield Upgrades - the swords I have no problem since I would never use anything other than the Mastersword if given a choice and I'm assuming that to be the most powerful sword. If it isn't, some one a Nintendo needs to be fired - don't give me any Golden Sword Rubbish, it's still the Mastersword under the additional magic and smithy work. I always see the Master Sword as not necessarily the strongest, but the only one that can seal away evil. I see the Biggoron's Sword etc as stronger but more unwieldy, like the Megaton Hammer, and I think that adds a little something to the tactics of the game. As for the mirro shield though, I take it you never noticed the different functionality beyond reflecting light. The mirror shield in OOT would cause any projectile that hit it to break, whereas the Hylian shield would reflect it. To me, this made the Hylian shield more useful as certain enemies attacks (I'm looking at you Octorok) can be used against them. Ah, well I never. Thanks for the info about the Iron Knuckle too. I remember the first time it started walking towards me in OoT. It's way too strong to attack directly, but you have enough time to try out different tactics. Sheer brilliance! The enemy system of Wind Waker. The enemies in Wind Waker just seemed very organized and it felt like they all had their place in ganon's army. I'd like to see it expanded on though. Perhaps you can keep their weapons with you after you kill them, but they break after so many hits or something. Very good point. You have the strong, brutish Moblins. Then you have the weaker but more common Bokoblins. Then the even weaker Miniblins, but who only ever attack in packs. Above them, you have the Darknuts and Wizzrobes, who are like a personal guard to Ganon.
Guest Captain Falcon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 One thing I definitely want to see, and I know it's from the 2D games but what the heck, is Roc's Feather. Roc's Cape would also be nice as an upgrade, but as long as we get the feather at least, I don't care.
The-chosen-one Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 i want the ocarina back a blacksmith where you can buy weapons masks from Majoras mask ( especially ) Fierce deity Link i want the bosses to be more tougher allottttttttt more minigames Voice acting for the everyone ( except link ) Maybe the Growing up from ocarina of time something like that i want the Farores wind Dins Fire and nayrus love back in the game the gountlents from ocarina of time that you can lift extreme big rocks that made link look really powerfull Epona has to be in the game The sages i liked them in Ocarina of time with their own personality each had their own story i liked that the music i want it to be originall again and the dessert stage from ocarina of time
Jonnas Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Fire, Ice and Light Arrows - I'm a fan of the items that upgrade Link (like the Power Bracelet), rather than "sidestep" items. Much fun can be having experimenting with the physics these items provide, burning curtains and freezing Wizzrobes! Tingle - He just sets the right tone! Using Enemies' Weapons - It was so much fun to pick up an enemy's sword or staff and throw it back at them or use it to cut down down a doorway or column. Like the fire and ice arrows, this just gives a sense of physics-based "play". It felt like real progression. Deku Leaf - A brilliant way to get to secret areas. It's a thrill when you see somewhere you might be able to glide to and then you actually can! Bomb-Arrows - This should be one of five types of arrow, in my opinion. Great fun to blast rocks out of the way. Aquatic Bombs - Simply very useful. Clawshot - Simple and a brilliant evolution. Beast Riding - In the next game, I'd like Link to be able to climb onto whatever creature is around, whether that's Epona, a boar, a dragon or an eagle. Shield Bashing - When playing Wind Waker recently, I really miss being able to bash the enemy with my shield! No bad comment on Wind Waker, of course, but it shows it was a good addition. Swordfighting Moves - Helm Splitter, Back Slice and all the others, especially the Finishing Move. That's the other thing I really want to do in Wind Waker now. Infinite Wallet - Because we really, really don't need the two "rupee" problems of Twilight Princess back! Dude, you should be shot for not mentioning either the spinner or the ball and chain! Twilight Princess really had some great ideas, and I'd like to see these explored further in the next game. I like all of the above. Although I don't want them added in the next one just for the hell of it. Let it fit the game. The Spinner is great fun. I wouldn't mind it kept in Twilight Princess though, as it's very environment-dependent and not really an upgrade to Link. Still great though. Thanks for the info about the Iron Knuckle too. I remember the first time it started walking towards me in OoT. It's way too strong to attack directly, but you have enough time to try out different tactics. Sheer brilliance! 1. I think the spinner could be developed a little. The idea is good, it just needs to grow. 2. I still remember the first time I tried using the hookshot on the Iron Knuckle... One thing I definitely want to see, and I know it's from the 2D games but what the heck, is Roc's Feather. Roc's Cape would also be nice as an upgrade, but as long as we get the feather at least, I don't care. Roc's Feather/Cape is something I'd love to see in 3D. And for those of you who didn't play the Oracle games, these two items could work wonders in 3D: Magnetic Glove - Not only it made for interesting puzzles, it also served as a battle item, when a metal ball was in the room. I can see it having the same uses as a hookshot, but with other versatile uses as well. Using the wiimote to control it is feasible, and has great potential. Switch Hook - For action/platforming goodness. Can you imagine crossing a huge chasm by using this several times? This kind of stuff ain't possible in 2D, you know. Plus, it's good for puzzles.
mcj metroid Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Bunny ears I love my games fast and furious.. I don't even care if they look silly when they are running.So this item was fantastic for me. IN majora's mask you see time was very important and although you could half time and slow it down you still found you ran out of time quite a bit. I had never got round to playing twilight princess for some reason So i;m not sure if it was included.. I don't even mind if they replaced it with fast shows etc but THIS and early in the game. Goron mask easily the best powerup in majora's.. Another one for pure speed.. Was a joy to control. Every so often I like to play the game again to roll around termina it was THAT fun. beam coming out of master sword My memory is foggy with this one but I believe when you get the master sword in lttp when you used it a beam would come out of it.. this was fantastic and added THAT sense of power. more dungeons but perhaps some a bit smaller IN occorina and majoras some of the dungeons were MASSIVE and got confusing to nagative..see the water temple.. It was clear wind waker was supposed to have been a bigger game but for the dungeons it got things right it i feel.
Guest Captain Falcon Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Bunny earsI love my games fast and furious.. I don't even care if they look silly when they are running.So this item was fantastic for me. IN majora's mask you see time was very important and although you could half time and slow it down you still found you ran out of time quite a bit. I had never got round to playing twilight princess for some reason So i;m not sure if it was included.. I don't even mind if they replaced it with fast shows etc but THIS and early in the game. The bunny hood worked as an idea because of it's appearance in OOT - I'd much prefer to have the Pegasus Boots, like Patch said, as it is effectively the same item (also the original speedy item) and it would probably look less out of place, especially if done in the visual style of TP. beam coming out of master sword My memory is foggy with this one but I believe when you get the master sword in lttp when you used it a beam would come out of it.. this was fantastic and added THAT sense of power. Well, the White Sword and Magic Sword of the first Zelda did that too. Only MM has seen an energy firing sword in 3D thanks to the FD mask and that consumed magic and didn't require gull health. Whilst I like the idea of the energy beam, I question it's use in 3D since most combat is close range, you have less of a need for it. And with all the other ranged attack items you get, it doesn't serve much use. Also, the beam tends to be quite weak and useless against the enemies you'd really like to use it on. If they do include it though, they better use the spinning energy swipe from ALTTP rather than the sword blade look from all the other games - they pale in comparison, as does MM's saw blade looking thing.
darkjak Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) Ocarina of Time: Reusing items: Items are used beyond the dungeon they're found in. 'Nuff said! Dialogue: OoT conained LOTS more dialogue than TP. You could also do a lot more to affect your conversations, like using masks. Different Swords: In Ocarina of Time you had four different swords. Kokiri Sword, Master Sword, Giant's Sword and Biggoron Sword. The game should allow you to choose from a bunch of different swords. Maybe the double swords that the Gerudo's use and a few others, just for the fun of it. Stalfos/Lizalfos/Gerudos: These creatures also using swords and shields were a tough nut to crack, and it's too bad they were used so sparingly. It's fun if Link faces an even match once in a while. Magic: Give us back a chargable spin attack, the magic arrows and the magic spells, and magic objects. Gorgeous surroundings: Somehow, Hyrule Field feels a lot more beutiful in OoT than in TP. My guess is that it's because of the OoT field was one large area, rather than several smaller ones connected by tight passages. Give us an open world that feels real, credible, open and beutiful. Twilight Princess: Horseback combat: Although the feature was over hyped for TP, it's a natural evolution. Link should however be able to use both the Sword AND bow from horseback. Graphical style: I never EVER want to get another Celda instead of a propper Zelda. E3 2000 demo: Swordfight vs Gannondorf Sure, it aint actually a game, but during E3 2000 Nintendo were on to something. I still have a large poster on my wall, which I got with Nintendo Official Magazine when OoT was just out, where Link and Ganondorf are in the middle of a sword duel. Overall I'd like to see Link face more enemies capable of doing the same as himself. Edited March 17, 2009 by darkjak
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 LOOOOOOOOOVELY THREAD :* More Sheikah Representation/Backstory: Sheikah really are an important race but have really been undercut to a more secretive level - which is understandable as the 'shadow folk', but a backstory would be nice. We've had the chance to play as a Sheikah twice in Smash bros, so I am very interested in seeing their culture represented in a game. Lon Lon/ Romani Ranch: You know, a lovely laid back country area. Make it worth going there, the race in OOT was good but it was only one limited attraction. Add a few more, maybe even give Epona skills earned from training... Like any extra 'carrot' of speed maybe. Buy Maps: This was nicely implemented in MM but was cut in TP (IIRC), a perfect example of an additional item and actually gives you a sense of adventure. Gerudos!: It was disgusting the way they were left out of TP... They add spice to Zelda and I love that whole ancient Egyptian vibe they give off. Target Archery on Horseback: Remember that place at gerudo Fortress? Would really work well with the wii remote. Generally, add more intialtive to perform such actions from horseback. Goron, Zora, (shadow?) Tunics: Basically, like the Zora Armour, useful pieces of change of clothing. This gave OOT a simple yet noteworthy feel of self customization. Didn't want the green tunic, wear blue. I admire the Zora armour, so I would love the other tunics to be designed in the same vein. Man, I could go on (and will at a later point)... <3
Sheikah Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Man, put all these things in and you'll have practically the same game! Give us something fresh, Nintendo. I'm thinking Link in black leather with a uzi and rebelling without cause. Smashing moblin drug rings and conquering the cocaine warlord Ganondorf. Nah, just kidding. Keep remaking the same game and we'll play them until we die, Nintendo.
DuD Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Thank you Grazza, this thread is sooo full of WIN Just a few Zelda gems: Brilliant Stories All the different races of people populating different areas in OoT & WW Song of Storms (all the songs from OoT, but specifically song of storms ) Immersive dungeons (Spirit temple, Earth temple just to name 2) Deku leaf flying in WW Rewards for exploring rather than just playing start to finish (Big Goron's Sword) The big thing that has to be there is the story, no other games can capture the magic of or draw you in like an epic Zelda story. Just keep the magic alive Nintendo. btw....Do they have Majora's Mask on the virtual console because i never got to play it.
darksnowman Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Some great ideas listed already! - Pegasus boots - Ball and chain - Using enemies weapons (I'd forgot about this one!) My own ideas: - Roc's feather - Aliens! Also, they have to keep the Marin and Tarin, Malon and Talon, Malo and Talo theme going.
Ren of Heavens Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 No more claustrophobic dungeons. I want more open, varied envionments. I want a pretty short main story, but with loads of side-quest and different endings instead. In terms of graphics I think a mix between the artistic style seen in Wind Waker and the more realistic style in TP would be cool. Maybe something like the latest Prince of Persia.
killer kirby Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Man, put all these things in and you'll have practically the same game! Give us something fresh. This. I feel like this is the same thread all those years ago during the Windwaker time when everyone wanted OOT2, and look how people reacted to TP
Hero-of-Time Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Some great ideas listed already! - Pegasus boots - Ball and chain - Using enemies weapons (I'd forgot about this one!) THIS! I loved those little boots in Link to the Past, such a joy to use as you ran around Hyrule Majora's Mask The sheer amount of sidequests made available in MM was staggering and its a feature I would like to see used in future Zelda titles. These weren't just collect item A and then take to person B tasks either. In MM you actually had to take an interest in the NPCs personal lives so you could figure out what you had to do, this made the game all the more charming and memorable IMO. Wind Waker I would love to see a return to the whole Celda look. For me WW just oozed charm and the colourful world made the game a real joy to behold and play. Sure TP looked great in a dark and gritty fashion but WW just had more character to it.
DuD Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Wind Waker I would love to see a return to the whole Celda look. For me WW just oozed charm and the colourful world made the game a real joy to behold and play. Sure TP looked great in a dark and gritty fashion but WW just had more character to it. I ablosutely loved the Wind Waker. I can remember a mate of mine just keep bashing it, that is untill he actually played it, after which point he then couldn't put it down It is such a charming game.
Pookiablo Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Majora's Mask The sheer amount of sidequests made available in MM was staggering and its a feature I would like to see used in future Zelda titles. These weren't just collect item A and then take to person B tasks either. In MM you actually had to take an interest in the NPCs personal lives so you could figure out what you had to do, this made the game all the more charming and memorable IMO. I too would like to see a similar thing in the next Zelda game - some of those sidequests were breathtaking - like the Kofi/Kafi whatever his name was one, I think that was the first time I truly sensed some real emotion in a game! This isn't a returning thing but on a sidenote, it would be cool to have the odd NPC help you fight your way through certain areas or something. E.g., Imagine Sheik helping you fight your way into a Gerudo hideout or something!
Jamba Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Minish Cap - Items with more that one use TP was almost entirely runined for me by the relatively poor design for the weapons. Sure they were varied in their shapes, size and nature but very few of them could be used in more than one way. This lead to quite a dull play mechanic. Now in MC the Wind Jar was legendary. There were loads of things that you could use this with and you didn't get told straight away, you had to investigate and experiment. Must admit that there's a long list of things that I don't want to see in the next Zelda but I'll hush up about that.
Pit-Jr Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Old people in random caves The red candle to burn stuff down Magic powder from LttP Health-replenishing hookers from AoL (Come inside! Let me help you!) Aquamentus (the dragon boss from Loz)
Tellyn Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Cel-Shading I think that Wind Waker is the pinnacle of the Zelda series, with the drop-dead gorgeous cel-shaded visuals being one of the main reasons for this. They brought even more charm, character and vibrance to the world of Hyrule than ever before, and gave the game an overall epic feeling, like the world was as big as our own. Don't listen to the anti-Celda fanboys, Nintendo, after Twilight Princess it's clear that nothing will ever satisfy them again! Vaati Loved Vaati as a villain in the Minish Cap, his look oozed both evil and style. I'd like to see him wreaking magical havoc in 3D as a change of pace in terms of villains, but of course Ganondorf will again be behind everything once we reach the end of the game...
Fused King Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 Ganondorf, Vaati, Majora's Mask, General Onox, Veran the Sorceress, Zant & Dark Link An all-star cast of bad-guys teaming up on Link, because of their endless humiliation by the boy with the green sock on his head XD All of them in the O So GORGEOUS cel-shaded style. Let's just say that Ganondorf finds a way to resurrect all these villians, who are lost in darkness.
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