Daft Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Scientists have discovered a drug that could erase fearful memories in humans. The method, using existing blood pressure pills, could be useful for weakening or erasing bad memories in people with post-traumatic stress disorder, the researchers say. Unfortunately, other research has shown, bad memories stick better than good ones. Studies in animal models have shown that fearful memories sometimes change when recalled, a process known as reconsolidation, and that this reconsolidation stage is vulnerable to the blood pressure drugs, called beta-adrenergic receptor blockers. In the new study on humans, by Merel Kindt and colleagues at University of Amsterdam in The Netherlands, 60 subjects were taught to associate pictures of spiders with a mild shock, creating a fearful memory. Later, they were given either a beta-blocker called propranolol or a placebo. The group given propranolol had a greatly decreased fear response to the spider pictures 24 hours later, according to a synopsis of the work from the journal Nature Neuroscience. And the fear response did not return, suggesting that their fear memory was completely erased. Some ethicists see problems, question whether such treatments begin to alter what it means to be human. "An interesting complexity is the possibility that victims, say of violence, might wish to erase the painful memory and with it their ability to give evidence against assailants," said professor John Harris, an expert in biological ethics at the University of Manchester, in an article in the Daily Mail. "Similarly criminals and witnesses to crime may, under the guise of erasing a painful memory, render themselves unable to give evidence." Meantime, scientists are zeroing in on how fear grips the mind. In 2005, researchers found a fear-factor gene that helps distinguish between people who have no fear and those who are afraid of everything. And last fall, scientists discovered the glue that keeps fearful memories stuck in the brain, a protein called beta-catenin that helps long-term memories solidify. There's apparently a natural way to rid yourself of bad memories, too. A 2007 study involving brain scans found that test subjects had the ability to suppress specific memories at a particular moment in time through repeated practice. It's all a bit Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. So if you could erase bad memories would you? Does this change what it means to be human? Is it ethical?
Mundi Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I don´t really like it, it´s the whole "What does not kill you only makes you stronger" for me. Also living your life without ever remembering anything bad is just living in ignorance But if people wanna use it I´m not gonna stop them.
Happenstance Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Wouldnt want to erase any memories personally, you could wake up a whole different person when losing a specific memory that really affected your life.
Cube Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 If you erase bad memories then how can you learn from your mistakes? Also, aren't most bad memories usually linked with good ones? Also, surely it'll make things ten times worse when you find out again (you can't tell everyone the person knows to never, ever mention the stuff to them). I would probably go mental about the lost memories - it's bad enough when I can barely remember after a night out. Also, I've just realised that I say "also" too much.
Beast Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 If you erase bad memories then how can you learn from your mistakes? Also, aren't most bad memories usually linked with good ones. Also, surely it'll make things ten times worse when you find out again (you can't tell everyone the person knows to never, ever mention the stuff to them). I would probably go mental about the lost memories - it's bad enough when I can barely remember after a night out. That can depend how bad the memory is. If a memory is so bad, you're most likely not to remember the good one, right? - Anyways, for me, I'd probably say no because all the things that have happened in the past, I believe, make you who you are today and I like who I am, lmao. So, no.
Dan_Dare Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I don´t really like it, it´s the whole "What does not kill you only makes you stronger" for me. Also living your life without ever remembering anything bad is just living in ignorance But if people wanna use it I´m not gonna stop them. Unless what didn't kill you was seeing an infant have their arms blown off by an IED in Afghanistan of course... Interesting idea. Some people can be broken by their experiences and it'd be amazing to see them healed. I think 'erasing' memories is hyperbole, surely? This is something that would be introduced to traditional psych treatment etc.
Mundi Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Unless what didn't kill you was seeing an infant have their arms blown off by an IED in Afghanistan of course... I meant it metaphorically. As in, if you manage to overcome the event you may want to do something about it or just continue your life and accepting that bad shit happens. Taking a pill and forgetting is just another way of doing nothing about it and ignoring it. I think it should be used as a last resort only if nothing else helps the victim to get over it.
EEVILMURRAY Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I don´t really like it, it´s the whole "What does not kill you only makes you stronger" for me. But people would be "stronger" but they wouldn't know why... But I agree with what you're sayings.
Pookiablo Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 They had a court case about this in Boston Legal, exciting stuff! I'm anti-pill, you need to deal with the bad things in life and move on from them. You'll be a better person for it.
Aimless Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 It's like any drug: used responsibly it could give people back their lives, used irresponsibly it could be very dangerous. GPs seem to hand out anti-depressants like lollipops these days, but there are some people out there — probably less than 10% of the patients that actually get prescribed the damn things — who would be unable to live anything resembling a normal life without them. Similarly 'erasing' memories could drastically improve the well-being of rape victims or other people suffering from extreme post-traumatic stress, but if anyone can pop down to Boots and walk away with a packet of mental detergent tablets then they will dilute lives, not enrich them.
dwarf Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 They had a court case about this in Boston Legal, exciting stuff! I'm anti-pill, you need to deal with the bad things in life and move on from them. You'll be a better person for it. But this is for people with post-traumatic stress. I can see what you're saying but if you had this problem then you'd want to have that pill.
Pookiablo Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 But this is for people with post-traumatic stress. I can see what you're saying but if you had this problem then you'd want to have that pill. I just don't think you should rely on drugs to just make everything better. Sure, I imagine people in these sorts of situations would want pills like this but something to me just doesn't seem right about taking a pill and erasing all the memories. It's not natural. But you're right, if I had the problem I'd probably end up changing my mind over this, lol.
Jonnas Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 As much as this could help traumatized people (and I'm talking about events on par with those where your brain blocks out what you've seen), I can also see this getting out of control. I'm against it, as memories shouldn't be tampered with (aside from a select very few cases)
Daft Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 It's like any drug: used responsibly it could give people back their lives, used irresponsibly it could be very dangerous. GPs seem to hand out anti-depressants like lollipops these days, but there are some people out there — probably less than 10% of the patients that actually get prescribed the damn things — who would be unable to live anything resembling a normal life without them. Similarly 'erasing' memories could drastically improve the well-being of rape victims or other people suffering from extreme post-traumatic stress, but if anyone can pop down to Boots and walk away with a packet of mental detergent tablets then they will dilute lives, not enrich them. This is spot on with my thoughts. Would anyone choose to forget a bad relationship? How much do you think it would change you if you forgot your bad memories? Surely you would still act, to an certain extent, the same way you had up until you had your memories got rid of?
Raining_again Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind! What a film. Removing memories... meh think it could only ever end up in tears. What if you ended up repeating history and going back to square 1, then you would go round and round and round in circles of regret forever. Before you know it you are 40 and have NO memories. Would suck.
Jimbob Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Well thats my life gone, 1/2 bad memories all linked to the good ones. I wouldn't take such a pill if it became available. Sounds all Eternal Sunshine to me. And if it goes anything like the movie, you should be able to record the bad memories onto tape for records and have to bring in items that remind you of such bad memories. And if it goes all bad like in the movie, memories shall be returned so such treatment shall be 100% successful.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I agree with most people in here. Memories, be they good or bad, are what shapes our personalities. We're supposed to learn from our mistakes and other bad events. The only time I would say this is appropriate is when we're talking about traumas and the like.
Cube Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 I still see a huge problem with trauma victims. Before something like this can be decided, the victim will likely have to go through a ton of counselling or whatever. Unless you create massive gaps in the person's memory (and informed everyone who they spoke to never to mention it to them), then the person will probably remember talking to someone about his trauma.
Raining_again Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 If its something like being raped or attacked maybe its worth it. Lets say you get this treatment after being in a war, get your leg ripped off.. You'll have no leg, and not have a clue why. Its hard to know really, think its all based on the fact that every single person and situation would be different.
Guest Maase Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 That is very useful to guys who are thinking of commiting suicide or of guys who are traumatized of something because of what they saw in a movie, or something. However, it would be fucking insane to have it as a normal product in the Pharmacy, we would have everyone with amnesia every fucking time, and I bet that the teenagers would be the most affected with this, as they get hummiliated at every single thing. Oh my fucking god, can you imagine the madness it would be to have to remind someone of something that happened?
Jon Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 For some reason I read this thread title as 'Phil Collins Equals Bad Memories'.
Dan_Dare Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 oddly enough, I read that at a glance too.
EEVILMURRAY Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 We've got 2 Arnie films here. Eraser and Total Recall.
Kirkatronics Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 Its goo for people who have deep seeded psychologicaly damaging memories which prevents them living their lives to the fullest. There would have to be strict guide lines, though. Like if you ran a child over due to speeding, and it effected you emotionally, should you be allowed to do it then?
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted February 21, 2009 Posted February 21, 2009 I'm wondering about the consequences of having memories erased, especially memories that have affected your personality and psychology. How will your brain react when those memories are suddenly gone? Will it change again? Or will the experiences have been so deeply rooted that you actually can't forget about them? Obviously some memories are stored way, way deeper than others, and that's exactly the type of memories that have had a deep psychological impact on a person's personality, e.g. traumas etc.
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