E3 2021: Digital Edition, TGA's 2021 & other 2021 events

[Ronnie]

18 minutes ago, Julius said:

And then there's the fact that other than showing new gameplay, I don't feel like they'd have an update on something like the date here, just given the prospective timeline for the game? So the idea of having an awesome trailer and then it still saying "2022" at the end as opposed to a particular month or quarter would just ring kind of flat, like Little Devil Inside not having a release date update in the most recent State of Play. I think the wiser thing for them to do would be to wait until E3 2022 and then crush everything around it with an update on the release date (which could easily be "Sorry, we meant 2023!"), a great meaty trailer to sink your teeth into, and plenty of Treehouse footage. 

Yeah I think that's most likely to happen, but they've done a couple of gameplay segments too and kept the proper trailers for E3. The first was Aonuma and Miyamoto playing the game (off screen) then there was another one a few months before BOTW released.

But yeah, I'm not expecting it or much from Nintendo, apart from maybe another Bayo 3 look or something.

[Dcubed]

I wouldn’t expect anything from Nintendo this year.

[Julius]

Nominees for The Game Awards coming this Tuesday.

Think this might be the first time in the last few years I don't have a horse in this race, think the only 2021 game I've played is It Takes Two, which I still need to sit down with my brother again to finish 

For those who have played 2021 games, are there any particular games you're backing to win a certain award at the TGA's next month? 

[Aperson]

METROID DREAD! METROID DREAD!

 

Actually, I think Dread is the only new game from this year that I've played unless you count NieR Replicant Ver. whatever because that is an enhanced remaster with gameplay changes and additional content. Otherwise I've been picking up games that came out from previous years. There are a bunch of games that have come out this year that I'm interested in at some point but Dread was top priority in terms of interest and it didn't disappoint, even without having played much of any other contenders I can confidently say Dread is a GOTY contender.

[Ganepark32]

Its probably one of the most open years for GOTY awards, at TGA or otherwise, that I can remember. There isn't a lone game that I can see running away with it like The Last of Us Part 2 or Read Dead Redemption 2 or Breath of the Wild. Rather, there's several spread out across genres that look to be key games that could easily snatch the top award as well as many of the smaller ones.

With regards to TGAs and specifically the GOTY award, I'd say there's probably at least 3 games that are sure fire locks for being nominated: It Takes Two, Deathloop and Psychonauts 2. Those 3 are the ones I'd say for sure will be nominated for the big award, with It Takes Two being the "indie" representative (despite being published by EA). There's usually 6 nominees for that award so that leaves 3 open spots and there's certainly a lot of contenders for them, in my eyes at least: RE Village, Returnal, Forza Horizon 5, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Death's Door, Chicory: A Colorful Tale, Tales of Arise, Guardians of the Galaxy, The Forgotten City, Overboard!, Hitman 3, Metroid Dread and Shin Megami Tensei V. There's probably a few others that could be valid choices on top of these.

Looking at those games, its really hard to choose. I'd love to see Chicory, The Forgotten City, Death's Door and Hitman 3 up for the top award but I just don't see it happening, likewise for Forza Horizon 5 (its never been nominated for the top award at TGAs and I don't think 5 will buck the trend despite being the best reviewed new released this year). The 3 indie games I mentioned will fall behind It Takes Two as that garnered more word of mouth despite all 3 of these games being phenomenal in their own ways (seriously, play them all but especially The Forgotten City because its incredibly well written). Hitman 3 will likely be forgotten because it released in January which is criminal as its my favourite game of this year so far.

I'd probably say that Returnal, Ratchet and Clank and RE Village will be the nominees alongside the ones I mentioned above. Dont think Metroid Dread will grab a nod, though recency bias (not saying its a good game but rather it'll be fresher in people's minds) might have it replace RE Village.

Of those, I'd really like to see Psychonaut 2 and Double Fine get the win as the game was everything you could want from a sequel and more and its one of the most creative games this year. Plus, Tim Schafer and the team deserves the win without a doubt.

Beyond that, I just hope The Forgotten City gets nominated for Best Narrative. It won't but it should and it should win because its so good (did i say everyone should play it, because you should!)

I've played quite a lot of the bigger games of the year that should be up for consideration and I just can't believe people think this has been a week year for games. Sure, AAA delays have been heavy but there's been a strong lineup of AA and smaller budget AAA and indie titles to make up for it and the creativity and breadth of the releases this year had meant something for everyone. Though I will say, having just finished Deathloop last night that I would personally give Hitman 3 the nod over it (and that until I play Returnal, The Forgotten City is the best time loop game of the year that isn't the Outer Wilds DLC).

[Glen-i]

I don't know. I think Metroid Dread being a 2D perspective kind of game will scupper it's chances...

[Aperson]

1 minute ago, Glen-i said:

I don't know. I think Metroid Dread being a 2D perspective kind of game will scupper it's chances...

From a mainstream industry perspective I think you might be right

 

Some games don't necessarily get the appreciation they deserve...

[Glen-i]

I also think Shin Megami Tensei is coming out far too late to be considered.

[Ronnie]

Forza Horizon 5 will definitely be nominated, same with Deathloop. Maybe Psychonauts 2 and Metroid Dread?

Ratchet and Clank has no business being nominated for GOTY. Flashy for sure but not much substance there.

[killthenet]

Dread is nailed on to get a nomination, I don't necessarily think it'll end up winning the top award but it will absolutely be nominated for Game of the Year. 

Of the 2021 releases I've played, I would like to see Life Is Strange: True Colors get some nominations but I would be very surprised to see it get a nod for GOTY. Similarly I really liked Little Nightmares II but don't expect it to get any major nominations, though it might get recognition for art direction. 

What are the chances of Monster Hunter Rise getting a GOTY nomination? It seemed to earn plenty of acclaim when it came out but the buzz seems to have dropped off a lot more sharply than it did with World. Besides Dread, Rise is the only 'big hitter' I've played this year.

Personally I don't have much stake in the nominations but I would love to see Lost Words: Beyond The Page get nominated for the 'Games For Impact' award.

[Dcubed]

On 13/11/2021 at 10:09 PM, Glen-i said:

I don't know. I think Metroid Dread being a 2D perspective kind of game will scupper it's chances...

Agreed.  2D games have a glass ceiling on how well they can be critically received by the media.  Same goes for lots of different genres, like Party games (No matter how good a Mario Party game is for instance, it simply cannot score highly by the media because their staff/reviewers are simply not interested in that genre as a whole).

Unless you’re a AAA “Oscar Bait” story-driven 3D action game; you simply cannot win GOTY awards from the mainstream media outlets.  Has been that way for a very long time, and I don’t see that ever changing.

Deathloop will likely be the big winner with this year’s TGAs.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Dcubed

[Ronnie]

Things have improved a lot recently with Celeste and Hades getting so much buzz and being nominated and even winning a few GOTYs themselves.

[Julius]

59 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Agreed.  2D games have a glass ceiling on how well they can be critically received by the media.  Same goes for lots of different genres, like Party games (No matter how good a Mario Party game is for instance, it simply cannot score highly by the media because their staff/reviewers are simply not interested in that genre as a whole).

While I do think that's it tougher for a 2D game to be recognised, I do think it's simply part and parcel with where the industry has gone. Indie games have revived 2D efforts in a way the AAA industry by and large has very little interest in,  but the problem is that the indie market these days is completely oversaturated with said 2D efforts. Like @Ronnie said, Hades and Celeste have been recognised through nominations, and I have no doubt that Hollow Knight would have been if it didn't launch first on PC. 

Like others here, I fully expect Dread to be nominated based on what I've seen read and heard about it. Now will it win? That's a whole other question. 

59 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Unless you’re a AAA “Oscar Bait” story-driven 3D action game; you simply cannot win GOTY awards from the mainstream media outlets.  Has been that way for a very long time, and I don’t see that ever changing.

The Game Awards GOTY winners from 2014 to 2020 have been: 

2014 - Dragon Age: Inquisition 

2015 - The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

2016 - Overwatch

2017 - The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

2018 - God of War

2019 - Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

2020 - The Last of Us Part II

So I'd say that's 2 out of the 7 that fit your description, being God of War and The Last of Us Part II. 

59 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Deathloop will likely be the big winner with this year’s TGAs.

Haven't played it, so I can't speak to its quality, but I can speak to what I read and hear: Deathloop came and went in an instant. Not saying that's deserved, might be a product of the year being so packed with competitive releases, but I've heard/read next to nothing about it since the week it launched, especially when compared to say Metroid Dread or It Takes Two. 

As @Ganepark32 said, it hasn't been a year with an outright runaway hit that's a clear favourite (do find it a bit funny that he mentioned Red Dead 2 though, seeing as it lost at the TGA's to God of War  I do get his point about that type of game). I've seen it lovingly be referred to as "The Year of 9's", which honestly isn't a bad thing, it's just not going to be remembered in the same way that 2017 and 2018 were, and potentially 2022 with how it's lining up. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Julius

[Julius]

Nominees for The Game Awards are about to be announced, you can follow along here:

You can places your votes here. 

Game of the Year 2021 nominees:

• Deathloop
• It Takes Two
• Metroid Dread
• Psychonauts 2
• Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
• Resident Evil Village

Edited November 16, 2021 by Julius

[Ronnie]

Ratchet and Clank for Game Direction and Game of the Year... Lol.

Amazed Forza Horizon 5 didn't make much of a splash, 92 on Metacritic. Must be the genre, as discussed above.

[Ganepark32]

I've more to say that I'll post later but as soon as I saw the Sports/Racing category I knew Forza Horizon 5 wouldn't get a GOTY nomination. I'd love to see the ballots as its the highest rated game of the year and doesn't get a GOTY nomination, that just seems odd to me. There's clear bias when it comes to sports/racing games but still, its got the review scores for a reason.

Hitman 3 pretty much snubbed as well. Gutted for IO Interactive as that is my favourite game of the year so far. The curse of releasing in January. Likewise Little Nightmares 2 which should have been nominated for Best Art Direction. The Forgotten City should have been nominated for Best Narrative.

An expected set of nominations though. As I say, will maybe post more thoughts later.

[Julius]

I couldn't help but chuckle at Geoff wanting to show off the theatre  good for him, must be great fun and feel very accomplishing to head a massive production like this! 

I genuinely got chills when he reeled off the nominees for Most Anticipated Games: Elden Ring, God of War: Ragnarök, Horizon Forbidden West, The Sequel to The Legends of Zelda: Breath of the Wild  and Starfield). Next year is so stupidly stacked with potential it's insane! One game a piece from the GOTY winners for 2017, 2018, and 2019, a massive Bethesda RPG, and Guerrilla Games getting their second crack at a gorgeous looking RPG too. Sure, a few of those could get delayed out of the year (GoW, Zelda, and Starfield), but if most of those release next year, I think there's a lot to be excited about. 

I think it would be really smart for Bethesda to turn up with some gameplay of Starfield here. Less than a year out from their planned launch, their first tentpole release since Xbox picked them up, I think it's time. 

9 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Ratchet and Clank for Game Direction and Game of the Year... Lol.

Amazed Forza Horizon 5 didn't make much of a splash, 92 on Metacritic. Must be the genre, as discussed above.

More than maybe even in the Oscars voting process, I have a very hard time thinking that the average gamer has any clue what good game direction actually entails. It's a massively different task from one game to the next, which is why I fully expect it to reflect whatever takes GOTY home/is the most popular. Now there's great stuff to Rift Apart and I had good fun with it, but yeah, maybe Game Direction ain't it. 

As for Horizon 5, I know the cut-off technically isn't until this Friday, but I wonder if it released too late to be in with a good shout for a GOTY nomination from the press. Based on what I've heard/seen/read of the game and it's reviews, it definitely looks deserving, but racing in particular is such a hard one. In all seriousness, when was the last time there was an objectively bad Gran Turismo or Forza? Even beyond that, I can't really recall many flops in the genre over the last few years (there aren't exactly a ton of racing games coming out in the first place, to be honest). I don't think it's a good excuse, but I think it's much more difficult to not only compare racing games to other games where you control a character with a more clear overarching goal, but even more so to be very noticeable as a racing game. 

It's a tough one, but yeah, like @Ganepark32 said, once the Sports/Racing category came up you just didn't feel like it'd be in with a shout, which I think is a shame.

I'm actually pretty surprised that Resident Evil Village got nominated, as even though it reviewed very well, it went fairly quiet very quickly, and definitely hasn't had the same buzz around it as say Resident Evil VII or Resident Evil 2 in recent years. 

[killthenet]

Very surprised that Forza didn't get nominated for the top award, I thought it had enough buzz around it to break through the 'racing games don't deserve to be nominated' barrier. Even more surprised that Returnal didn't get a nomination for GOTY, I haven't played it myself but it seemed as if the consensus was that it would be one of the top contenders to actually win so to not even be in the running is a bit nuts.

Edited November 16, 2021 by killthenet

[Dcubed]

Nice to see Metroid Dread get a nomination, even if it’s just a token gesture.

Anyway, like I said before.  Deathloop will likely take the award, only Psychonauts 2 really has a shot at beating it; but the media always favour AAA “Oscar Bait” 3D action game productions, so Deathloop it is.

Deathloop will also likely clean up everywhere else outside of the TGAs as well.  Not much other viable competition this year (almost everything else is in the wrong genre).

Edit: @killthenet Yeah, sadly both Forza and Returnal are in the wrong genres, so they won’t be in the running for GOTY from anywhere.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Dcubed

[Cube]

Some great games in the game of the year nominations, like It Takes Two and Psychonauts 2.

Forza Horizon 5 really should be on next year's nominations, not this (well, more that The Game Awards should be late Jan/Early Feb). It's literally not even possible to see all of what the game has to offer, due to the seasons being locked to particular weeks (still stupid concept). 

The indie game selection including Twelve Minutes is a massive insult to so many amazing indie games. It's an absolutely atrocious game. The debut indie games is a bit better, with The Forgotten City, which is a million times better than Twelve Minutes.

[Jonnas]

Generally speaking, the Game Awards show prioritises whichever games are most popular and/or talked about. It's not exactly about the Oscar-bait, it's just that Oscar-bait tends to provoke a lot of discussion from the gaming community to begin with. With that in mind, Metroid Dread should have an advantage over Deathloop. In fact, I'd argue It Takes Two is the favourite to win it all.

I mean, when the principal Meme about Deathloop is "Boy, that game came and went quick, huh?", that puts it at a major disadvantage. Meanwhile, Metroid Dread brought a lot to the table, including "single-handedly revived the series" and "provoked debate over whether 2D games can be worth 60$". Of course, Psychonauts 2 has similar advantages on that front. Finally, It Takes Two trumps them all by providing strong themes on relationships and marriage in palatable, publicized, AAA form. It's the winner with the best look, so to speak.

3 hours ago, Julius said:

Game of the Year 2021 nominees:

• Deathloop
• It Takes Two
• Metroid Dread
• Psychonauts 2
• Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart
• Resident Evil Village

I didn't post my predictions here (so you're gonna have to take my word for it), but I definitely predicted these bolded 4 to be among the nominated. I thought the remaining two would be Tales of Arise and Forza Horizon 5. I thought Ratchet and Clank would be too long of a shot for the nomination (with It Takes Two and Psychonauts already filling the stylish vibe, family-friendly platformer slots. I'm actually happy Ratchet made it despite that), whereas Resi VIII... I just literally forgot it existed

My only wish for the show itself will be for them to actually focus on the awards for once. I know they won't, but I wish they would. Besides that... just announce something more interesting than Fast&Furious.

Now where's the Huniepop 2 nomination, you hacks!?

[Ganepark32]

2 hours ago, Cube said:

The indie game selection including Twelve Minutes is a massive insult to so many amazing indie games. It's an absolutely atrocious game. The debut indie games is a bit better, with The Forgotten City, which is a million times better than Twelve Minutes.

This is one that bothers me the most. Sure, there seems to be quite a few critics that loved 12 Minutes but there does seem to be a general consensus that it wasn't too great. And having played it, it really wasn't. The story was god awful (that reveal at the ending was just awful, really awful to the point it almost made me angry that thats where they went with it), the gameplay was so rigid about how it wanted you to approach each loop and I thought the time loop element was only really used in the most basic of sense. Compared to The Forgotten City, like you mention, and it just doesn't compare.

There's a reason that The Forgotten City won an award for its writing. Its well researched, its cleverly designed from a gameplay and narrative point of view with some genuinely interesting themes running throughout, a well conceived time loop mechanic that doesn't make you retread old parts over and over (god bless Galerius for being your lackey) and the narrative is genuinely well written and interesting.

I don't get how 12 Minutes was nominated for Best Indie over it but that category looks like its stacked for Kena: Bridge of Spirits to win (even though Death's Door and Inscryption are be miles ahead) likewise best Debut Indie even though The Forgotten City should win that 

[Glen-i]

I haven't even played it yet, but I'd easily choose Psychonauts 2 out of that list. Just watching a little gameplay of it, and it just clowns all over Mario Odyssey!

Metroid Dread is legit making me miserable playing it, I think I'm gonna have to give up on it. So I can't in good conscience pick it.

[Julius]

Woah woah woah, hold up. Did anyone else's mind just completely blank out the fact that Cyberpunk got a nomination for Best RPG?

I can't speak to the quality of the game as it crashed on me enough to stop playing, but from what I've read recently, it's still not in a great state? Not that anything in particular comes to mind to take its place, but that just seems like a bizarre nomination. 

[Happenstance]

4 minutes ago, Julius said:

Woah woah woah, hold up. Did anyone else's mind just completely blank out the fact that Cyberpunk got a nomination for Best RPG?

I can't speak to the quality of the game as it crashed on me enough to stop playing, but from what I've read recently, it's still not in a great state? Not that anything in particular comes to mind to take its place, but that just seems like a bizarre nomination. 

I guess the question is how do you judge the category. Would enjoying the story and RPG-aspects of the game make it a good RPG even if it did launch broken?