Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Dcubed]

The truth is that you don't need a good launch lineup to have a successful console.

Sony have always had crap launch lineups, and it has never stopped them from having successful consoles.

By contrast, more consoles have had good launch lineups and have craterered, than the opposite.

Sony and Microsoft could launch their next consoles with literally no exclusive games whatsoever; not even "next-gen" exclusive games (and this is actually looking very likely at this point), and they will still have successful consoles.

While a good launch is important, the actual launch lineup rarely matters in the long-haul.  What is important is a good price, an attractive hook, a consistent cascade of titles post-launch (Nintendo's usual No1 screw up) and just not fucking up something tremendously.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Dcubed

[drahkon]

28 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Sony's approach is a steady one, but they support the console right up until the end of its life.

Sad PSVita noises

Sad drahkon noises

[Ronnie]

32 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

That's what is happening now with Switch

It's almost as if NSMBUDX, Yoshi's Crafted World, Super Mario Maker 2, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Daemon X Machina, Tetris 99, Astral Chain, Luigi's Mansion 3, Link's Awakening Remake and Pokemon and Animal Crossing didn't just happen in the past 16 months. 

35 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

And my point about you being unhappy was that you complain if they don't announce games early and then complain when they do.

Don't be obtuse. There is an alternative to 1) revealing games three years in advance and 2) not revealing anything for three years. Magic answer number 3) Reveal games and keep your fans engaged steadily throughout the life of a console, with a healthy reveal > release window of 6 months 1 or 2 years. Show new stuff at E3 each year and don't cancel your PSX fan show because you've already showed your big guns.

It's just an observation 

[Julius]

45 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the case. History has shown that Sony tend to have weak console launches in terms of killer games. It's also shown that it's not really needed. Pretty much all of their home consoles have had weak launch games and all of them went on to sell very well despite this. Even the PS3.

I'm trying to think of who could actually have a game ready for them. No way a God of War sequel is ready, Sucker Punch are launching GoT on PS4, Naughty Dog have TLOU2 (although there are rumours of a second studio working on something else), Bend just released Days Gone last year and I think it's too soon for Spider-Man 2 or Horizon 2. The rumored Demons Souls Remastered and Ratchet and Clank (this could be a game that pushes me to buy day 1) are probably the best shouts.

If the MS showing is anything to go by, it looks like it will be 3rd party cross generation games that will be making up the numbers when both new consoles launch. 

Yeah, I know we normally have relatively weak launch lineups, but I don't think that having one or two killer games this time around is necessarily out of the question because of that. Both companies, for better or worse, seem to have made a habit of bucking a lot of trends over the last couple of years.

I'm by no means suggesting that having killer games at launch are necessary for a console's success, just that I think with first party and exclusive titles being arguably the sell for most gamers to pick up a PlayStation over Xbox for a good while now, that it seems likely, to me at least, that we'd see or two big exclusive titles which draw people to PS5 over XSX. And a strong lineup over the course of the first year in this regard. 

Plus, with us likely having a potentially longer transition window between generations this time around thanks to Smart Delivery and whatever PlayStation are going to call their beefed up backwards compatibility tech, I also think it's important to take into account the current list of planned games for PS4. There's nothing first party or exclusive currently scheduled for them beyond Ghost of Tsushima in July, at least that I can remember, and they're clearly holding back on titles which, sure, will probably be cross-gen, but they're waiting to push them when they start pushing the PS5. 

Honestly, I think the games you suggested are a somewhat realistic expectation for launch, and would do a great job of countering each other from a marketing perspective for the general gaming audience. But again, like I said, speaking more broadly in terms of the first year of PS5, I am expecting a stronger lineup, in terms of first party and console exclusives from other developers, than we saw with the PS4 for it's launch year.

I don't think that a potential Horizon sequel is out of the question by November of next year, considering that Zero Dawn will be four years old next February (I know they helped out a bit with Death Stranding, but I never got the impression that Guerrilla dropped everything to do that). Likewise, considering just how successful Spider-Man was, turning around a sequel in three years by the end of next year doesn't seem too crazy for me, especially after Sony picked them up. Definitely agree that the God of War sequel is going to take a bit more time (out of all of the exclusives, I think this probably will be the furthest away).

I wouldn't be surprised if Japan Studio happen to have something cooking up for the first year though, if Bluepoint are busy with a Demons Souls Remastered, and I know that they haven't done much with Sony on an exclusive basis recently, but Ready at Dawn have been assisting with future PC and console development, and I don't think it would be out of the question for them to have some sort of shorter showpiece game available for the first year either. Then there are a bunch of third parties who still love some level of exclusivity with PlayStation. 

Maybe "stacked" was my excitement speaking, but I don't think that one or two big games at launch and a strong helping of exclusive titles (first party or otherwise) was out of the question at launch. 

And I say "was" because of everything going on at the moment in the world. Game development will be lengthened with people working from home; considering that we could very likely be in a global recession come this autumn, less people will be able to buy new consoles than they otherwise would, let alone taking into account potential impact on the production scale of said consoles, and so I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sony are changing their plans in line with that either. 

Totally agree that most of what we're going to see this year are third party offerings across both generations, and like you guys, I'll be really surprised if there's anything that's necessarily exclusive to the next gen consoles. I think the only way that isn't the case is if someone puts out a really short experience, something like P.T. perhaps, capable of showcasing next gen in its prime? 

It'll be really interesting to see how it all shapes up 

29 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

The truth is that you don't need a good launch lineup to have a successful console.

Sony have always had crap launch lineups, and it has never stopped them from having successful consoles.

By contrast, more consoles have had good launch lineups and have craterered, than the opposite.

Sony and Microsoft could launch their next consoles with literally no exclusive games whatsoever; not even "next-gen" exclusive games (and this is actually looking very likely at this point), and they will still have successful consoles.

While a good launch is important, the actual launch lineup rarely matters in the long-haul.  What is important is a good price, an attractive hook and just not fucking up something tremendously.

Yeah, if we're talking launch day lineups, I'm with you and H-o-T, one or two PlayStation exclusive games they're bullish about and fans are excited about would be great, and I guess I'm just optimistic at this point. It might end up being misplaced, but honestly, I've got so many games to play as it is that I don't mind if I end up being way off the mark! 

If we're talking launch year though, then yeah, I'm expecting a strong lineup of PlayStation first party and third party exclusive games. Again, could be optimism getting to my head, but 3 or 4 first party titles and around the same amount (maybe a few more) from third parties in that first year seems pretty realistic to me at this point. I think we're going to see a much stronger sense of continuity transitioning from this generation to the next than we have before because of both consoles being backwards compatible on day one. 

I guess time will tell, but hey, I'm going to be somewhat optimistic about it all until the PS5 event lets me down 

[Hero-of-Time]

47 minutes ago, Julius said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Japan Studio happen to have something cooking up for the first year though, if Bluepoint are busy with a Demons Souls Remastered, and I know that they haven't done much with Sony on an exclusive basis recently, but Ready at Dawn have been assisting with future PC and console development, and I don't think it would be out of the question for them to have some sort of shorter showpiece game available for the first year either. Then there are a bunch of third parties who still love some level of exclusivity with PlayStation. 

The rumour that won't go away is that Japan Studio are helping out with a Silent Hill reboot which will obviously be exclusive to the PS5. I'm hoping that they are also working on a sequel to Astro Bot. The first game is EASILY one of the best games I have played this generation and the fact that both reviewers and gamers raved about it, they would be stupid not to make a sequel.

I'd love for Ready at Dawn to return to The Order franchise. That game was really undeservedly hammered by the gaming press. I thought the world and characters that they built up in the game had a lot of potential. 

[Sheikah]

4 hours ago, Ronnie said:

It's almost as if NSMBUDX, Yoshi's Crafted World, Super Mario Maker 2, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Daemon X Machina, Tetris 99, Astral Chain, Luigi's Mansion 3, Link's Awakening Remake and Pokemon and Animal Crossing didn't just happen in the past 16 months. 

I'm guessing you went back 16 months instead of 12 since you didn't have a very convincing list. Whichever way you look at it, Switch has been out far less time than PS4 but already feels like the best has already been, and there are often clusters of months where there are no quality big titles releasing.

You've also got to remember that PS4 gets big third party games whereas Nintendo have to release more themselves to fill in the blanks.

Quote

Don't be obtuse. There is an alternative to 1) revealing games three years in advance and 2) not revealing anything for three years. Magic answer number 3) Reveal games and keep your fans engaged steadily throughout the life of a console, with a healthy reveal > release window of 6 months 1 or 2 years. Show new stuff at E3 each year and don't cancel your PSX fan show because you've already showed your big guns.

It's just an observation 

Why don't we consider that Sony might actually know what they're doing with these announcements? I feel they have earned the benefit of the doubt this generation.

Like so far, we have seen Microsoft reveal too much information and too often, going as far as revealing third party games on Thursday that actually made a bad first impression for the console. Sony are clearly opting to keep their cards close to their chest and it seems to be working. Keeping quiet for so long, look how much buzz they generated when they actually did reveal something - the PS5 controller.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

29 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I'm guessing you went back 16 months instead of 12 since you didn't have a very convincing list.

Ok, the last 12 months:

NSMBUDX, Yoshi's Crafted World, Super Mario Maker 2, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Daemon X Machina, Tetris 99, Astral Chain, Luigi's Mansion 3, Link's Awakening Remake and Pokemon and Animal Crossing

Oops, I'd forgotten Labo VR and Ring Fit Adventure, so add those in instead.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

Ok, the last 12 months:NSMBUDX, Yoshi's Crafted World, Super Mario Maker 2, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Daemon X Machina, Tetris 99, Astral Chain, Luigi's Mansion 3, Link's Awakening Remake and Pokemon and Animal Crossing Oops, I'd forgotten Labo VR and Ring Fit Adventure, so add those in instead.

Yes, please do add Labo VR. Your list is very strong now.

 

So Ronnie, if there are no gaps, what's coming out in the next 12 months? You've focused on the past but I can easily make the argument that there are gaps by looking at what's coming out in the next year.

[Ronnie]

Feel free to give Sony the benefit of the doubt (but not Nintendo obv). From what I've seen the last few years, arrogant Sony seems to be rearing its head again, I hope not cause I'm looking forward to getting a PS5. 

31 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Like so far, we have seen Microsoft reveal too much information and too often, going as far as revealing third party games on Thursday that actually made a bad first impression for the co

"Too much information, too often"? Is that just a personal opinion you made up because you refuse to give Xbox any credit whatsoever? Their last showing apart, people seem to have enjoyed how Xbox has been rolling out information so far. 

Meanwhile Cerny's presentation was by most accounts, a blunder. Their new controller was divisive but at least got buzz going sure, but the only reason they showed that early was to stop it leaking when sending it out to all their devs.

Very interesting generation coming up. All I was saying was that Sony haven't revealed a big game in the last three years, and I thought that was pretty ridiculous and worthy of note. Hopefully they'll go with a shorter reveal > release time scale this gen.

[Sheikah]

Feel free to give Sony the benefit of the doubt (but not Nintendo obv). From what I've seen the last few years, arrogant Sony seems to be rearing its head again, I hope not cause I'm looking forward to getting a PS5.

Damn right I will give them the benefit of the doubt here, they make, release and market games for a living, and have done it very successfully these past 5 years. I don't see a reason to think they've suddenly lost their minds and don't know know their strategy all of a sudden. I personally think they are saving their announcements for when they will have more impact.

"Too much information, too often"? Is that just a personal opinion you made up because you refuse to give Xbox any credit whatsoever? Their last showing apart, people seem to have enjoyed how Xbox has been rolling out information so far. 

Well....yeah. I suppose if we can conveniently say they didn't just do what they did, and pretend they did something else, then we can say people love what they are doing. [emoji14]

I think it was pretty clear when Sony revealed their controller that their tactic paid off. The enthusiasm for just their controller, as measured by social media reaction, was considerably greater than the much meatier announcements Microsoft had been making. People are hungry for PS5 and Sony know it

Meanwhile Cerny's presentation was by most accounts, a blunder. Their new controller was divisive but at least got buzz going sure, but the only reason they showed that early was to stop it leaking when sending it out to all their devs.

Except that's not true, is it? Cerny's video has a 3:1 upvote to downvote ratio, which actually confirms the complete opposite of what you're saying.  Contrast this to Microsoft's video from 2 days ago, which has more downvotes than upvotes.

[Goafer]

16 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Feel free to give Sony the benefit of the doubt (but not Nintendo obv). 

Pretty ironic that if you switch the companies around, you have your general outlook.

Remember: When Sony does something bad, it's awful. When Nintendo does, it's internet hyperbole.

[S.C.G]

No company deserves blind loyalty.

When it comes to Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, each company has their positive aspects along with a myriad of faults.

I used to prefer Nintendo over the other two, going so far as to not even properly bother with buying any Playstation or Xbox console until much later on.

Looking back at some old posts I made about Sony and Microsoft, I can see that my perceived 'loyalty' to Nintendo prevented me from giving some great games a good chance.

I've been a multiplatform gamer for many generations now with access to probably more games than I'll ever reasonably play.

The thought of next generation consoles is always interesting but also, I quite like where things are now with the Switch, PS4 and Xbox One.

If I were to consider buying any new console however, it would most likely be a PS5 even though I'll do everything I can to not want one due to the expense.

Looking at where we are now with the Xbox One Series X and the PS5, they are both consoles, which will likely come out next year, there will be some games at launch.

That's all we really know at this point, aside from the fact that both machines will be using new ways to deliver games to us faster and make them run better.

Has anyone actually seen a genuinely exclusive game announced for either platform which makes them want to buy into either system on day one?

Or is it still too early to tell either way?

I keep thinking that I won't join in with the speculation on either machine until we know a little bit more but... I cant deny that it is interesting, to a point.  

[drahkon]

3 hours ago, S.C.G said:

Looking at where we are now with the Xbox One Series X and the PS5

3 hours ago, S.C.G said:

they are both consoles,

3 hours ago, S.C.G said:

which will likely come out next year

3 hours ago, S.C.G said:

there will be some games at launch.

Look at S.C.G., the psychic

[S.C.G]

31 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Look at S.C.G., the psychic

Haha, it's true though... there isn't much which is certain at the moment about these console launches except maybe the basics.

For the launch of the PS5, I can see... superior versions of existing PS4 titles such as Ghost of Tsushima or The Last of Us Part II and probably a launch title from Housemarque.

You'll have the usual 'next-gen' versions of Cod etc and any free to play games you care to mention and maybe one or two high-profile surprises from third-parties.

I wouldn't put it past Sega to reboot Sonic the Hedgehog in true '06 style... but hopefully nothing like that game for the 30th anniversary next year.

Imagine if Sonic was suddenly a system seller again, launch title for both platforms and somehow a miraculous Switch port just because...

As for a true exclusive, the PS5 could get a new God of War game but it might be too soon, definitely not too soon for an upgraded version though.

[Goron_3]

On 09/05/2020 at 2:21 PM, Ronnie said:

Just read that Sony haven't revealed a big first party game since 2017 

It's baffling.  

I don't get why this is an issue? You've got to remember that forums like this or Resetera aren't representative of the gaming community. The team over at Playstation aren't worried about having new announcements all the time to appeal to people on a forum who get off to announcements. The mass market doesn't care. Announcing their titles back in 2017 makes a lot of sense if you think about it; it's basically a 'we're going to keep investing, even though we're the dominant console' message.

If they saved announcements like TLoU or GoT for the following year, would that really make you, or anyone else, feel better? 

Regarding PS5 launch year games. If a Demon Souls remake is legit happening then I'm jumping on the PS5 day one. It wouldn't surprise me if we also saw a Gran Turismo given that they've already got 4K assets (I believe). Then in 2021 we'll see a Spiderman or Horizon sequel.

Edit. Having spent some time thinking on the above, I'd honestly love it if companies just announced their software roadmap for the next 3-5 years. 'Here's the Switch 2 - here's what we're making.'

Edited May 11, 2020 by Goron_3

[Cookyman]

 

[Will]

Looks pretty damn impressive. Really looking forward to seeing some games designed to take advantage of the system.

[Julius]

Full interview with Epic for context:

The absolutely required viewing Digital Foundry breakdown is up:

It's kind of crazy that, at least from what I've seen everywhere, this tech demo has a much better reception than Xbox's game reveals last week.

Sony are absolutely in control of their messaging at this point, and are nailing it - what could you give more confidence than having the creator of the Unreal Engine, Tim Sweeney, say that "Sony's PS5 storage system is absolute world class. Best on any platform. Better than any high-end PC. It's a dream come true"? It inspires a sort of confidence in what Mark Cerny was talking about a couple of months ago being the right direction for platform architecture going into this next gen. 

Imagine that once the Ghost of Tsushima State of Play is out of the way tomorrow, we're going to finally see some more about PS5 and it's games in the next two or three weeks. Very excited. 

[S.C.G]

1 hour ago, Cookyman said:

 

That was a solid PS5 tech demo, my level of interest in the console has definitely increased.

Visually, it looks like we can expect much of what we've already seen on the PS4... but just more stable and of course... more triangles.

What they're doing with the sound is interesting, I was listening to it in surround, not even in the best sound mode and what I heard seemed comparable to something straight out of an Uncharted game, if not ever so slightly better perhaps? Which is high praise, as I remember all of the Uncharted games sounding incredible.

As for the actual game demo itself, I would be very surprised if they don't turn that into some kind of working title, or if indeed it already is a working title which might be ready for launch; because if that really is purely all made for this demo then... well played indeed.

[drahkon]

43 minutes ago, Julius said:

Sony's PS5 storage system is absolute world class. Best on any platform. Better than any high-end PC.

Sounds like a Trump-quote

Anyways, I'm impressed.

Sony knows exactly what they're doing with all these bits and bytes of information they've been throwing out there. They don't need to show much and the entire gaming world is glued to the screen.

High level competition going on between Microsoft and Sony right now. Can only be good for the next generation of gaming

[Ronnie]

Hopefully games games games! A big launch title and actual first party support in its first year please.

[Goron_3]

JUST GIVE ME DEMON SOULS! Or Bloodborne 2.

I definitely think Sony will show off at least one game that shows off the speed of their SSD. Spiderman 2 or Horizon 2 seem likely. If I recall, the latter was originally intended to have a flying mechanic but was scrapped.

[Sheikah]

28 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Hopefully games games games! A big launch title and actual first party support in its first year please.

Will be interesting to see, that's for sure. Out of interest, supposing they do have some game reveals (and games that are out before long), would you say it paid off for them to hold back announcing anything that last few years? I know you were excited when Paper Mario got announced the other day with only a short time until release.

[Ronnie]

8 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Will be interesting to see, that's for sure. Out of interest, supposing they do have some game reveals (and games that are out before long), would you say it paid off for them to hold back announcing anything that last few years? I know you were excited when Paper Mario got announced the other day with only a short time until release.

I don't think it'd made much of a difference. PS4 has had big first party games since 2017, every 6 months or so there's a big release, which is good. I just don't like how they announce things years in advance and then have nothing to reveal for the last three years of a console's life. It seems weird to me. Maybe it helped sell more consoles in the long run but in terms of engaging your fanbase it just seems a bit lacklustre. 

I much prefer Nintendo's short reveal > release window, with a few big tentpole title reveals sprinkled in that are far off like Zelda or MP4.

They'll (surely) have tons to announce now after three years of radio silence which should be exciting. Obviously third person action games are their thing, and I'm kind of craving one of those right now. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Ronnie

[Mandalore]

It'll be a big boost for Sony if they have 1st party PS5 exclusives to show off making use of the new hardware. As nice as cross platform is, it's not going to sell me on new consoles if I can just play it on my PS4.