Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Zell]

1 hour ago, Goron_3 said:

Seeing some rumours of a big PS5 event in the coming weeks. Fingers crossed it's true.

I do think Sony are going into next gen with a tonne of momentum compared to Microsoft. They've just announced sales figure for the past quarter and quite frankly they are extraordinary. At the moment, PS4 is tracking above PS2 sales, which says a lot given that home gaming in Japan is non-existent. One thing that I never thought about until just know is that more than ever, gamers don't want to switch ecosystems as they'll lose their digital software. Sony are selling huge amounts of software at the moment and I've got no doubt it will stop people switching over to Xbox Series X.

I don't think I've ever been this excited by a next gen console to be honest. With PS4/ XBO, we saw big jumps in GPU power and RAM but fairly modest CPU gains. With PS5, we're seeing a 8x increase in CPU performance, 20x performance in speed (from HDD to SSD) and even then, the GPU's are better in 2020 than the PS4 GPU was in 2013.

I've just completed RDR2 on XBX and whilst the game was utterly gorgeous, you could tell it was really pushing the limits of what game design could be like on a current console. I can't wait to see what the future holds

I agree that Mircosoft have all the work to do to get gamers to switch to Xbox from Playstation, whereas Sony simply have to not fuck up PS3-style in order to get their user base to migrate to PS5.

If in regular consumer eyes the PS5 and Xbox Series X are essentially the same box in terms of graphics, price point, functionality and 3rd party games, then people will generally just stick to the same brand (same console as their friends, likely already have a subscription, ease of moving across digital games etc). At the moment I don't see Microsoft doing enough to win people over (and at the same time, Sony are making all the right noises).

The digital software library point is probably overblown though, since you don't lose access to your digital games by switching console brands unless you actually sell your old console. Over the course of the last few generations, I've gone from Gamecube to Xbox 360 to PS4 as my primary console. On my Xbox 360 I had accumulated a modest collection of digital games and while Xbox One would have been great for the backwards compatibility and my digital content, ultimately the PS4 was the no-brainer choice for me this gen. So my digital library is spread, but I also have digital games spread across my Wii, Wii U, 3DS, Switch, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4, Vita, Steam, Epic Games and god knows what else.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Zell

[Sheikah]

5 minutes ago, Zell said:

The digital software library point is probably overblown though, since you don't lose access to your digital games by switching console brands unless you actually sell your old console. Over the course of the last few generations, I've gone from Gamecube to Xbox 360 to PS4 as my primary console. On my Xbox 360 I had accumulated a modest collection of digital games and while Xbox One would have been great for the backwards compatibility and my digital content, ultimately the PS4 was the no-brainer choice for me this gen. So my digital library is spread, but I also have digital games spread across my Wii, Wii U, 3DS, Switch, Xbox 360, PS3, PS4, Vita, Steam, Epic Games and god knows what else.

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't Microsoft add most of the 360 game support to the X1 later on? I do think it's very important to have this backwards compatibility support right away as it eases the transition. If I can go out and buy a PS5 at launch and immediately play Overwatch (with boosted performance) for instance, that's a big deal. I can pack away my PS4 right away.

Give it a year or two after the launch of PS5 and backwards compatibility becomes less of a big deal.

Another point on this is that we've now probably accumulated much bigger game libraries due to games included with Plus and also because digital (and digital game sales) is much bigger now.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Sheikah

[Zell]

1 minute ago, Sheikah said:

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't Microsoft add most of the 360 game support to the X1 later on? I do think it's very important to have this backwards compatibility support right away as it eases the transition. If I can go out and buy a PS5 at launch and immediately play Overwatch (with boosted performance) for instance, that's a big deal. I can pack away my PS4 right away.

Give it a year or two after the launch of PS5 and backwards compatibility becomes less of a big deal.

Yeah I agree that there's more incentives to continue with the same brand to have that seamless transition. As previously said, if the consoles are essentially very similar then it makes complete sense to stick rather than switch.

Microsoft need to give a reason for people to switch from PS4 to Xbox Series X, to counter the above arguments. What would that take? If it turned out that Series X was say £200 cheaper? They produced some killer app akin to the original Halo? One can dream. Maybe heavily invest in Game Pass and start giving them away.

One thing I mentioned was playing with friends who all own the same console, hopefully crossplay will become standard very soon so this shit won't matter.

  

[Will]

For me I really don’t care about my digital library, I’ll probably never play the games again once I upgrade and even if I went to another ecosystem I’d keep my old console just in case.

What I do care about is my digital identity, my friends lists, achievements etc. I think in real terms that’s a bigger reason to stick with the same console over time, especially as they’ve become more central to the experience over the last generation.

[Mandalore]

41 minutes ago, will' said:

What I do care about is my digital identity

I think all console manufacturers have got a long way to go with digital identities before I'd feel very invested in their ecosystems. Personalisation is still extremely limited and I feel a complete disparity between my sense of accomplishment and what my achievement/trophy list says.

[Julius]

Continued rumours about an upcoming PS5 announcement from Bloomberg. 

I would just like to know the price and maybe have a bit of a teardown by the time that Gamescom rolls around at the end of the month. Anything else would be a bonus, especially anything relating to upcoming games. Hope they plan to turn up at Tokyo Game Show next month too. 

And the Kaz account just keeps on giving 

 

[Goron_3]

I also want to just point out how mixed Microsoft's messaging has been. Sony have made it very clear that they believe in this idea that a new console generation should create experiences that couldn't be possible on older technology, hence why they've invested not just into great CPUs and GPU's but a groundbreaking SSD.

The Halo Infinite reveal was just so disappointing to me. I watched a reaction to it from The Cherno (who is a game developer) and whilst it's just one game, it does very much suggest that Microsoft's approach to next gen is better resolution and framerates, not new game design possibilities. The Rachet and Clank trailer meanwhile very deliberately showed how quickly the SSD can load new worlds and how the SSD can change games. Again, it's a small sample size but I think both examples show a lot.

If I have realised one thing about next gen though it's that I need a bigger and better TV.

[Ronnie]

2 minutes ago, Goron_3 said:

The Halo Infinite reveal was just so disappointing to me. I watched a reaction to it from The Cherno (who is a game developer) and whilst it's just one game, it does very much suggest that Microsoft's approach to next gen is better resolution and framerates, not new game design possibilities. The Rachet and Clank trailer meanwhile very deliberately showed how quickly the SSD can load new worlds and how the SSD can change games. Again, it's a small sample size but I think both examples show a lot.

I don't think you can look at one example as evidence that one console manufacturer looks at new game design possibilities and the other doesn't, especially as Sony's first demonstration of the SSD was all about faster fast travel in Spider-Man. I'm also not sure the whole dimension swapping thing in Ratchet looks particularly fun, to me at least?

Has Microsoft's messaging been mixed? They've been very clear as far as I can tell, especially thing like backwards compatibility and how all their games on Game Pass etc.

[Will]

52 minutes ago, Mandalore said:

I think all console manufacturers have got a long way to go with digital identities before I'd feel very invested in their ecosystems. Personalisation is still extremely limited and I feel a complete disparity between my sense of accomplishment and what my achievement/trophy list says.

I think that’s fair, and I agree there is a long way to go before they are ideal. But they will improve, and get used for more and more things. Over time they become a bigger barrier to switching. I guess it does include the games you own and have dropped money into. It’s the whole online connection to the ecosystem.

20 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Has Microsoft's messaging been mixed? They've been very clear as far as I can tell, especially thing like backwards compatibility and how all their games on Game Pass etc.

I think they’ve been pretty clear, but they haven’t come out (as far as I know) and explicitly laid down a mark in the sand like Sony have. As other have mentioned Sony have been very clear that generational leaps are important and there should be a very defined difference between what is possible on PS5 vs. PS4, to the extent that games are not possible on the older hardware. Microsoft are going for the opposite approach where games are playable on whatever hardware you have, just to differing levels, but obviously they can’t say you don’t really need to buy the new console so it comes across as less explicit.

In terms of approach I think you can easily make a case for both of them being the right way to do things. But Sony sure make their approach sound more exciting for people looking to get a new console.

[Goron_3]

24 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I don't think you can look at one example as evidence that one console manufacturer looks at new game design possibilities and the other doesn't, especially as Sony's first demonstration of the SSD was all about faster fast travel in Spider-Man. I'm also not sure the whole dimension swapping thing in Ratchet looks particularly fun, to me at least?

Has Microsoft's messaging been mixed? They've been very clear as far as I can tell, especially thing like backwards compatibility and how all their games on Game Pass etc.

It's not just one example though is it? Cerny made it clear during the tech talk that the SSD has been designed create new game design possibilities that go beyond what developers are forced to do. That, combined with what they've said and shown about Spiderman, Horizon and Rachet make it clear that they believe that PS5 games would not be possible on current gen.

Regarding Microsoft - they are putting out what is on paper the most powerful console ever made. They've then said that software will be cross generation, which is part of the reason why Infinite looked so disappointing. Since the negative response to last week's showcase they've begun removing references to software being played on current gen consoles (including the One S, the weakest of the lot) but if you've already designed your next gen software to be playable on current gen machines then surely it's a bit too late? It just seems...odd. The perception I'm getting is that Sony developers are the ones trying to design games that could not be possible before, whereas Microsoft want software that's scalable across hardware, with the Series X delivering higher fidelity graphics and frame rate.

 

[Sheikah]

50 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I don't think you can look at one example as evidence that one console manufacturer looks at new game design possibilities and the other doesn't, especially as Sony's first demonstration of the SSD was all about faster fast travel in Spider-Man. I'm also not sure the whole dimension swapping thing in Ratchet looks particularly fun, to me at least?

Has Microsoft's messaging been mixed? They've been very clear as far as I can tell, especially thing like backwards compatibility and how all their games on Game Pass etc.

I think Microsoft's messaging has been fairly muddled.

For example, Microsoft said that their new first party games would support Xbox One for the next 2 years. But as others have noticed, there's a good chance that this isn't the case after all. Either games are too far away (thus making this a bit of an empty boast), or games won't come out on Xbox One after all.

You've also got the fact that they're touting having the most powerful console, then showing a demo for a game with bad pop in (which therefore looks like it's not taking advantage of the SSD) that looks like a slightly spruced up Xbox One game, and certainly not making the case for buying the new system. Then just yesterday they're removing the "optimised for Xbox Series X" stickers from games, which, while they were ugly, this now means that you don't know which games are optimised at a glance.

Add to this that it wasn't clear at all if any games they recently showed were actually running on Xbox Series X (some were in fact shown on PC) and it's easy to be left confused as to why you'd want to buy a Series X within the first few years at least.

If we contrast this with Sony, they have made it very clear that it's a new generation and they're not holding back the potential of new games by making them compatible with older systems. And we can see evidence with that with Ratchet and Clank with its dimension shifting. There was a good article on the Series X recently by Oli Welsh at Eurogamer.

To quote him:

Quote

"It is hard to believe that, as a new console generation approaches, Microsoft is once again fluffing its lines. The hardware reveal went well - unsurprisingly, since it had been so carefully rehearsed with Xbox One X a couple of years previously. But we have yet to see anything that shows those impressive stats in action, and corporate strategy seems once again to be getting in the way of what players want to see and hear."

Edited August 4, 2020 by Sheikah

[Ashley]

I've not been paying too much attention to next gen stuff, just checking in on places like this primarily and granted I did watch that Sony thing from a few weeks ago but I can tell you Sony has a new console coming out and Microsoft has...4? There's so many labels/names for their products and they're all similar it does create a struggle to make it clear to someone not paying attention (like me) what is going on. I'm aware some of those names may just be branding things (like the "lighting cable") rather than SKUs. 

Sony's naming convention may be uninspired but it makes things clearer!

Just checked and obviously I didn't actually think there were 4 SKUs coming out but what I mean is the console is called Xbox Series X, which includes Xbox Series X Smart Delivery games from Xbox Game Studios (amongst others) and Xbox Game Pass. I think adding that to the fact it had a codename (which obviously is common but I think they forked in my head) and there was rumours about another or something? It's just a lot of phrases that sound the same. Maybe even the "series" part is making me think there's more, like there's going to be one for every letter! 

Curious if they end up with another Wii U situation where the name is similar enough to what is before that it causes confusion as to whether it's a new console or an add on. Doesn't help their history is Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One and they're going for a "no generations" approach.

Or I'm just dumb I don't know. 

[Ronnie]

11 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Just checked and obviously I didn't actually think there were 4 SKUs coming out but what I mean is the console is called Xbox Series X, which includes Xbox Series X Smart Delivery games from Xbox Game Studios (amongst others) and Xbox Game Pass. I think adding that to the fact it had a codename (which obviously is common but I think they forked in my head) and there was rumours about another or something? It's just a lot of phrases that sound the same. Maybe even the "series" part is making me think there's more, like there's going to be one for every letter! 

There's the Xbox Series X. One of the many features is Smart Delivery, and their in-house game devs are under the 'Xbox Game Studios' name (similar to 'Playstation Studios').

It's one SKU of console. There are reports that they will also be releasing a second, digital version for cheaper (similar to the second PS5 disk-less SKU, no idea what that's called), but that will also be a streaming box. Could be a big deal, we'll see.

Regardless, Xbox are selling an ecosystem, Playstation are selling a console.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Ronnie

[Will]

Microsoft’s naming for the Xbox consoles has definitely been one of the stupidest things in gaming over the last few generations. 

[Goafer]

24 minutes ago, will' said:

Microsoft’s naming for the Xbox consoles has definitely been one of the stupidest things in gaming over the last few generations. 

Yup. I wonder if it will have a similar issue to the WiiU, where the more casual audience will think it's a peripheral or at least not realise it's a whole new generation.

[Will]

4 hours ago, Goafer said:

Yup. I wonder if it will have a similar issue to the WiiU, where the more casual audience will think it's a peripheral or at least not realise it's a whole new generation.

I think for more casual people it absolutely will. As someone not particularly interested in Xbox it was only recently that I managed to work out which was the current generation and which is the new one. I’m still not entirely sure of all the derivatives and what each one does. With PlayStation just adding numbers it’s very easy to understand which is best. When you talk about Xbox 1 vs Xbox Series X there is nothing to suggest which one is which just from the name.

[Ashley]

7 hours ago, Ronnie said:

There's the Xbox Series X. One of the many features is Smart Delivery, and their in-house game devs are under the 'Xbox Game Studios' name (similar to 'Playstation Studios').

It's one SKU of console. There are reports that they will also be releasing a second, digital version for cheaper (similar to the second PS5 disk-less SKU, no idea what that's called), but that will also be a streaming box. Could be a big deal, we'll see.

Regardless, Xbox are selling an ecosystem, Playstation are selling a console.

Yeah once I looked it up I understood what those things were, but it was more just having heard those terms floating around in a contextless way before it muddied the water. 

The digital edition of the PlayStation 5 is called PlayStation 5 Digital Edition. 

[drahkon]

Some information (and lovely images) on PS5's accessories:

Check a look

Still annoyed that the DualSense doesn't have back buttons...if my Nacon Revolution Pro controller gets updated to work with the new console, I'll never use the DualSense. Back buttons are a game changer.

 

[Will]

What does a back button do that cross or circle don’t?

[Ronnie]

The PS5 controller looks so much more comfortable than the DS4. Really glad they went the Switch Pro/Xbox shape.

A bit weird that they would introduce a back button peripheral that clips on, and then not include that feature built into the Dual Sense.

[drahkon]

26 minutes ago, will' said:

What does a back button do that cross or circle don’t?

It's easier to press without taking the right thumb away from the analogue stick. It is a game changer for shooters

[Will]

1 hour ago, drahkon said:

It's easier to press without taking the right thumb away from the analogue stick. It is a game changer for shooters

Ah! I mis-read that as a back button, as in back and forward buttons.

Ignore me, I totally agree. It is weird they haven’t included it as standard with the Dual Sense.

[Happenstance]

19 minutes ago, will' said:

Ah! I mis-read that as a back button, as in back and forward buttons.

Ignore me, I totally agree. It is weird they haven’t included it as standard with the Dual Sense.

I wonder if it's to avoid putting off more casual users. I've definitely had family members look at regular controllers and complain there are too many buttons so this way they can offer "pro" controllers or add ons again.

[Will]

I’d say that’s a pretty good shout. Hardcore gamers will definitely shell out more money to have the best.

[Julius]

Following his recent mentions of big multiplatform games having deals with PlayStation which would include different levels of exclusivity, Imran Khan has posted this on ResetEra:

Quote

I don't like to come into threads where I am the subject because people are usually not polite and any appearance leads to 30 notifications asking "Where's the details, tho?"

But yes. Echoing what Matt said. There isn't a major third party out there Sony failed to approach asking what kind of deals they could work out. Some had content, some had games, some had content and games. It is not like Microsoft was not willing to offer, they just didn't want to pay the asking price, because Sony approached with pretty high numbers in the first place.

That "PlayStation Advantage" branding and "Console Exclusive" wording are both going to get a lot of use in the next few years.

Interesting times ahead, can't help but wonder what kind of deals PlayStation has lined up, and with whom, especially if they have reached out to all of the big players. Xbox would have been in trouble without this, but with? I appreciate that their strategy is different this time around, but if PlayStation do have exclusives from first and third parties - and/or exclusive events and characters locked onto the PlayStation versions of third party games - lined up to the extent that we're getting something exclusive or which objectively has more content than versions on other systems every month or so, Xbox Series X is going to be dead on arrival, and potentially much worse off than the One moving forwards. If it's true it reads less like PlayStation trying to not just compete, and more like trying to push Xbox out of console manufacturing altogether. It's a very aggressive strategy. 

Again, I think that's if this is true, and of course assuming that these big publishers have actually agreed to varying degrees of exclusivity with PlayStation. I doubt we'll be waiting much longer to find out more. 

For anyone wondering about PlayStation Advantage, it's the branding which has been used in the recent marketing blast for Avengers: 

Curious times ahead. We already know about Deathloop and Ghostwire, and in a few years I'm sure Final Fantasy VII Remake Pt. 2, but what else might join this list I wonder? The rumoured Resident Evil 4 Remake, Street Fighter VI, a Monster Hunter World sequel, Final Fantasy XVI, Persona 6 (which definitely wouldn't be surprising, but I'm sure PlayStation would want to lock it in n)? It's weird to me that they'd want to get timed exclusivity or similar deals for something like Final Fantasy XVI when clearly the numbers are historically in PlayStation's favour in sales relative to Xbox's for the franchise, and I imagine it's a similar situation for the others I've mentioned, so that's why I think a deal like that reads less like trying to bring new more users in, and more like trying to just stop Xbox in their tracks as they try to grow their audience of Japanese software. But then I'm sure there will be deals with games like FIFA, Call of Duty and GTA VI like there has been this generation, it's just difficult to imagine them going any further with that on the western developer side of things. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Julius