drahkon Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 42 minutes ago, bob said: Is this just because more fouls are being caught due to VAR? Is it a coincidence? There's definitely a correlation. I hope we'll see a statistic of the VAR after the tournament is over. How many times has he intervened, how many times was he right/wrong, number of cards/penalties/goals given/taken away? Have to say the VAR has been good most of the time, so far.
Julius Posted June 26, 2018 Author Posted June 26, 2018 50 minutes ago, bob said: Is this just because more fouls are being caught due to VAR? Is it a coincidence? It definitely seems to be the former; if it continues at the current rate, the previous record will almost be doubled, and that’s not much of a coincidence. What makes it even more interesting is that some of the penalties awarded seem dubious when compared to other, clearer claims for a penalty. At the beginning of the tournament teams went 11 games without a red card, the longest red card drought at a World Cup since 1986. We’ve only seen 3 red cards awarded so far in 36 games, which is 1 every 12 games, so if that continues at the current rate, we could hypothetically only see 6 red cards this World Cup. If that were to happen, this would be the cleanest World Cup (in terms of red cards) since 1982! There have been some strange decisions so far, but considering that this is the first major tournament to play host to VAR, I think that it’s being utilised in an efficient manner. In my opinion, the main thing that they have to do going forward is to find a way to streamline its use, so that we don’t end up with more games ending in the same manner that Spain v. Morocco did last night, as it devolved into chaos.
bob Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 There's definitely a correlation. I hope we'll see a statistic of the VAR after the tournament is over. How many times has he intervened, how many times was he right/wrong, number of cards/penalties/goals given/taken away? Have to say the VAR has been good most of the time, so far.Yeah I assumed it was because of VAR. I can't think of any VAR decisions that have been wrong though, other than the penalties they haven't called (wrestling in the box). It will be interesting to see how the game changes moving forward. Maybe we'll just have more penalties and more goals. Maybe defenders will adapt. Maybe it will help stamp out diving (we wish).
drahkon Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 Holy shit, Denmark - France is boring...both seem to be content with the draw, especially with Peru leading against Australia. But still...Denmark could nick first place in the group
Hero-of-Time Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, drahkon said: Holy shit, Denmark - France is boring...both seem to be content with the draw, especially with Peru leading against Australia. But still...Denmark could nick first place in the group Yup. Only caught the second half but it's sleep inducing.
Hero-of-Time Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, drahkon said: Maradona flipping the bird. What a cunt. Yup. Stupid SOB. The World Cup is falling apart for me. All the big teams have started to perform or get extremely lucky.
drahkon Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 Just now, Hero-of-Time said: The World Cup is falling apart for me. All the big teams have started to perform or get extremely lucky. I'm fine with the big teams finally performing well but the amount of luck some of them had...annoying as hell.
Hero-of-Time Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 Just now, drahkon said: I'm fine with the big teams finally performing well but the amount of luck some of them had...annoying as hell. Its a shame because both Iceland and Nigeria have had chances to bury these games but they didn't have the quality with the final kick. 1
Hero-of-Time Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 Bah! Looks like I'm supporting France on Saturday. To hell with Argentina, Messi and the fat mess that is Maradona.
drahkon Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 Tomorrow it's time for us to step up again, but this time for the full 90 minutes...please. And you know what else I wanna see? Brazil getting knocked out. I don't want to see Neymar's crying face anymore in this tournament.
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 I'm torn. I really don't like Argentina and fucking despise Maradona...but they're one of my sweepstake picks. As Peru and Iran have both gone out, I need Argentina to do well to save face, at least until the Summer holidays start! What the hell was Rojo doing up there in that position?! Gutted for Nigeria as I thought that they could have had the win tonight. Thought Iceland played really well, too. Croatia are deserved group winners and this has been a very entertaining group. Also, booooo to France and Denmark for the first 0-0. Let's kick both of them out for that!
Emerald Emblem Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Germany are OUT! Injury time goal for South Korea. What a huge VAR call and the right one too. EDIT: IS THAT 2-0 SOUTH KOREA!? IT IS! Neuer playing as an outfield player gives the ball away, long ball to Son to tap it into the empty net. Bottom of the group after that second goal. Edited June 27, 2018 by Emerald Emblem
Eenuh Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Oh wow, what an end to those two games. Can't believe Germany are out!
Julius Posted June 27, 2018 Author Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Well done to South Korea, Germany genuinely didn’t deserve to go through. Werner by far was their best player to start all three games; Neuer was very good after a long time out; However, at least from my understanding of the game and offside rules, I don’t think that that first Korean goal (which changed the complexity of the final few minutes entirely) should have stood, and I think that the linesman got it right. Everyone’s making a really big fuss about it coming off Kroos before falling into the path of that Korean player in the six yard box, but that doesn’t matter at all. The Korean player who scored was offside at the time of the last Korean touch — there is very clearly a touch from a Korean player just before it goes through Kroos’ legs — meaning that he was offside, regardless of Kroos’ touch, and the goal shouldn’t have stood. Why on earth the commentators seemed to think that it mattered that the last player to have touched the ball before him was Kroos, I don’t know. The VAR team didn’t help at allby just replaying it going through Kroos’ legs and his awkward touch that sent it towards the scoring player; the incident in question happened before that. It doesn’t matter that the last touch was from a defending player; what matters is that the attacking player was offside when another attacking player last touched the ball. In this case, the Korean player should be considered actively offside until the point at which the ball is next touched by a Korean player and he is an onside position. EDIT: discarded my poor example of offside. Edited June 27, 2018 by Julius Caesar
Eddage Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Julius Caesar said: Well done to South Korea, Germany genuinely didn’t deserve to go through. Werner by far was their best player to start all three games; Neuer was very good after a long time out; However, at least from my understanding of the game and offside rules, I don’t think that that first Korean goal (which changed the complexity of the final few minutes entirely) should have stood, and I think that the linesman got it right. Everyone’s making a really big fuss about it coming off Kroos before falling into the path of that Korean player in the six yard box, but that doesn’t matter at all. The Korean player who scored was offside at the time of the last Korean touch — there is very clearly a touch from a Korean player just before it goes through Kroos’ legs — meaning that he was offside, regardless of Kroos’ touch, and the goal shouldn’t have stood. Why on earth the commentators seemed to think that it mattered that the last player to have touched the ball before him was Kroos, I don’t know. The VAR team didn’t help at allby just replaying it going through Kroos’ legs and his awkward touch that sent it towards the scoring player; the incident in question happened before that. Here’s an extreme example of what I’m talking about, scaled up so as to not be too confusing. Imagine this: a goalkeeper is in goal, with his nearest defending player standing on the halfway line, with an attacking player stood clearly between the goalkeeper and his nearest defending player. With the players in this position, another attacking player kicks the ball, with the outfield defending player gathering the ball, before sending the ball back towards the goalkeeper. The attacking player who was previously in an offside position intercepts this pass and then scores. For all intents and purposes, the laws of the game, at least as recently as I last checked them (a few years ago) consider this to be offside, and the goal would not stand. It doesn’t matter that the last touch was from a defending player; what matters is that the attacking player was offside when another attacking player last touched the ball. In this case, the Korean player should be considered actively offside until the point at which the ball is next touched by a Korean player and he is an onside position. I don't think the player is offside in your example. If the defender makes a deliberate attempt to play (not block) the ball and it then falls into the path of an attacker then he will be onside as it is effectively the defender that has passed the ball to the attacker. As far as I'm aware anything that happens leading up to the defender playing the play is ignored. I remember something similar occurring in the premier league during the last season where there were debates about whether a goal should have been given or not but the touch from the defender was an attempted block that took a slight deflection into the path of the attacker. As it was an attempt to play the ball (e.g. pass it to another player) the goal was rightfully ruled offside. Admittedly I haven't seen the Germany highlights so can't comment on that specific example but from your description it sounds like it was a deflected attempted block in which case it would still be offside as far as my understanding goes. Edit: Just watched the highlights. Absolutely right that the goal stood. I thought from your description that the only German touch has when it went through the defenders legs, but it was Tony Kroos who clearly and deliberately played the ball through the other defenders legs. Edited June 27, 2018 by Eddage 1
bob Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 I don't think the player is offside in your example. If the defender makes a deliberate attempt to play (not block) the ball and it then falls into the path of an attacker then he will be onside as it is effectively the defender that has passed the ball to the attacker. As far as I'm aware anything that happens leading up to the defender playing the play is ignored. I remember something similar occurring in the premier league during the last season where there were debates about whether a goal should have been given or not but the touch from the defender was an attempted block that took a slight deflection into the path of the attacker. As it was an attempt to play the ball (e.g. pass it to another player) the goal was rightfully ruled offside. Admittedly I haven't seen the Germany highlights so can't comment on that specific example but from your description it sounds like it was a deflected attempted block in which case it would still be offside as far as my understanding goes.This was my understanding too.
Julius Posted June 27, 2018 Author Posted June 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, Eddage said: I don't think the player is offside in your example. If the defender makes a deliberate attempt to play (not block) the ball and it then falls into the path of an attacker then he will be onside as it is effectively the defender that has passed the ball to the attacker. As far as I'm aware anything that happens leading up to the defender playing the play is ignored. I remember something similar occurring in the premier league during the last season where there were debates about whether a goal should have been given or not but the touch from the defender was an attempted block that took a slight deflection into the path of the attacker. As it was an attempt to play the ball (e.g. pass it to another player) the goal was rightfully ruled offside. Admittedly I haven't seen the Germany highlights so can't comment on that specific example but from your description it sounds like it was a deflected attempted block in which case it would still be offside as far as my understanding goes. Yeah, I think I tried to oversimplify my example and messed it up a bit, my bad. But yeah, to the main point of conversation: I highly doubt that a player like Kroos deliberately passes the ball to a Korean player/to his goalkeeper in that situation
Eddage Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 Just now, Julius Caesar said: Yeah, I think I tried to oversimplify my example and messed it up a bit, my bad. But yeah, to the main point of conversation: I highly doubt that a player like Kroos deliberately passes the ball to a Korean player/to his goalkeeper in that situation Well no, I'm sure he meant to kick it elsewhere but that's irrelevant, he still deliberately attempted to play the ball.
Julius Posted June 27, 2018 Author Posted June 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eddage said: Well no, I'm sure he meant to kick it elsewhere but that's irrelevant, he still deliberately attempted to play the ball. Okay.
Jonnas Posted June 27, 2018 Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) I'm not gonna lie: Germany disappointed me. I was looking forward to that promised Brazil/Germany rematch, and instead they fizzle out. Tsk. Imagine Brazil's morale if Germany fizzled out against them! Well, at least there's finally a chance of seeing a Portugal/Argentina match at the World Cup. It's either that, or we're going to have to deal with France without Éder on our side But first things first, we got an Uruguayan shark to slay. Edited June 27, 2018 by Jonnas
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