Pokémon Sword & Pokémon Shield (2019, Switch)

[Hero-of-Time]

1 minute ago, Dcubed said:

And how much will it affect the development of a proper Pokemon game for Switch? Probably a lot.  Just speaking practically, Game Freak would've had to have been working on three games simultaneously (US/UM, Let's Go, Gen 8) if it is indeed coming out next year.  Something has to give here; and I reckon it'll be Gen 8 that gives.

Wasn't US/UM handled by a younger team? Dunno how true it is but apparently the 2019 game has been in development for a while now, so it's probably have a lot of time in the oven before it gets released. Although, given how rough the newer games have been in terms of performance, they'll still probably need more time than has been allocated to them.  

[MindFreak]

2 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Game Freak have basically thrown me a middle finger with this game and said that they're more interested in chasing the genwunner PoGo audience.

Why? We all knew they wouldn't be able to make a brand new Pokémon game (welll, a gen 8 at least) in the time from SM to now, buy by having this, they get money for making the next game. Furthermore, since Pokémon Gen 8 is releasing in a bit more than a year, they won't have time to completely revamp the game based on the success of LGPE.

[Glen-i]

3 minutes ago, MindFreak said:

Why? We all knew they wouldn't be able to make a brand new Pokémon game (welll, a gen 8 at least) in the time from SM to now, buy by having this, they get money for making the next game. Furthermore, since Pokémon Gen 8 is releasing in a bit more than a year, they won't have time to completely revamp the game based on the success of LGPE.

Yes, but that means for the past year, resources have been taken away from Gen 8.

And I'm more worried about Gen 9 getting influenced by GO.

[Julius]

9 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Yes, but that means for the past year, resources have been taken away from Gen 8.

And I'm more worried about Gen 9 getting influenced by GO.

While I’m sure that some resources were taken away from Gen VIII to make these games, I have my doubts that it was anything to the point of detriment. 

These games look like 3DS ports, or even, as @Dcubed has suggested before, mobile games. I won’t place any bets, but just looking at it, do you know when I think this game - with it being a RBGY reimagining, only having the original 151, etc. - was intended for?

2016. The 20th Anniversary.

I have the genuine feeling that this is a shelved product, which has been worked on longer than we thought. I think the plan might have originally been to remake the original games for 3DS using the new engine (or, at the very least, as an in-house tech demo), but I think they shelved that to see how the world reacted to GO first - after all, that originally only catered to the original 151 too - and, more likely, also probably figured out that it would save them a lot of time and money to just put the old games out on Virtual Console. The Pokémon following you, the GO additions, etc., all seem like Pokémon GO pandering, and that’s exactly what it is - GO was a huge success, and so they’ve probably retrofitted a shelved game to make profit from that, or “phase new players to the franchise into the core series”, as I’m sure any PR team would spin it. 

USUM were made by the younger dev team because the older team probably had so much on their hands, juggling both the Gen VIII games and supposedly working with Niantic and some other devs (it wouldn’t surprise me if Nintendo’s first party teams got in to help on this, at all) on the game. 

I can understand the hot takes. And I can appreciate the genuine confusion about what this means for the future of the franchise. But do we really think that Game Freak are going to let the future of “real” core series games be inspired by the successes of GO? After they’ve so stubbornly stuck to the original formula for 22 years? I honestly doubt it.

I think there’s reason for concern with this game, and whether or not this spin-off series becomes a mainstay for the franchise, but I’m not concerned at all by Gen VIII, and I don’t think that you should be, either. At the very least, just because the same leakers who were so right about LGPE were also adamant that these games would have a mixed/divisive reaction, and that the game/s really worth being excited about are coming next year, in 2019. 

Chin up, @Glen-i and co. who are worried about the future of the franchise. I think next year’s World Championships will shine a light on whether these really are to be considered core series titles or not. 

[Shorty]

2 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

To people who continue to play and enjoy Pokemon Go ( @Shorty, @Daft, @BowserBasher, @MindFreak ) has this announcement got you interested in picking up the game?

I just watched the trailer and I'm pretty sure I would've picked up this game despite my ongoing interest in PoGo. Sofa co-op Pokemon adventure? Count me in.

[Goron_3]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

Sure yeah. Reasonable thinking.

But what if they do?

Back when GO came out and became a huge mega hit. I was genuinely concerned that it's mechanics might bleed into a proper Pokémon game. And now here we are.

Now what if this sells way more than next year's game? What's to stop Game Freak from thinking, "Oh well, no-one wants actual battling of wild Pokémon then. Let's ditch it"

It's at risk of snowballing and it's frightening.

The more mainstream, family friendly Mario titles such as NSMB (DS, Wii and Wii U) didn't stop the existence of games like Mario Odyssey. Whilst I understand your concerns, I think it's clear that in the era of the Switch, Nintendo firmly understands the need to have 'system sellers' as well as the more 'broad' titles.

[Dcubed]

1 hour ago, Julius Caesar said:

While I’m sure that some resources were taken away from Gen VIII to make these games, I have my doubts that it was anything to the point of detriment. 

These games look like 3DS ports, or even, as @Dcubed has suggested before, mobile games. I won’t place any bets, but just looking at it, do you know when I think this game - with it being a RBGY reimagining, only having the original 151, etc. - was intended for?

2016. The 20th Anniversary.

I have the genuine feeling that this is a shelved product, which has been worked on longer than we thought. I think the plan might have originally been to remake the original games for 3DS using the new engine (or, at the very least, as an in-house tech demo), but I think they shelved that to see how the world reacted to GO first - after all, that originally only catered to the original 151 too - and, more likely, also probably figured out that it would save them a lot of time and money to just put the old games out on Virtual Console. The Pokémon following you, the GO additions, etc., all seem like Pokémon GO pandering, and that’s exactly what it is - GO was a huge success, and so they’ve probably retrofitted a shelved game to make profit from that, or “phase new players to the franchise into the core series”, as I’m sure any PR team would spin it. 

USUM were made by the younger dev team because the older team probably had so much on their hands, juggling both the Gen VIII games and supposedly working with Niantic and some other devs (it wouldn’t surprise me if Nintendo’s first party teams got in to help on this, at all) on the game. 

I can understand the hot takes. And I can appreciate the genuine confusion about what this means for the future of the franchise. But do we really think that Game Freak are going to let the future of “real” core series games be inspired by the successes of GO? After they’ve so stubbornly stuck to the original formula for 22 years? I honestly doubt it.

I think there’s reason for concern with this game, and whether or not this spin-off series becomes a mainstay for the franchise, but I’m not concerned at all by Gen VIII, and I don’t think that you should be, either. At the very least, just because the same leakers who were so right about LGPE were also adamant that these games would have a mixed/divisive reaction, and that the game/s really worth being excited about are coming next year, in 2019. 

Chin up, @Glen-i and co. who are worried about the future of the franchise. I think next year’s World Championships will shine a light on whether these really are to be considered core series titles or not. 

Hmm... Never considered that its development might have pre-dated Sun/Moon... This being a 20th anniversary game for 3DS would make sense.

 

After all, we all know that Pokemon Z got cancelled for 3DS (and its mechanics shoved into Sun/Moon).  Maybe they were originally meant to release alongside one another and Sun/Moon was supposed to release in 2017? Would explain why US/UM released so quickly and why the original Sun/Moon felt so unfinished...

 

And then the remake concept was revived as a PoGo tie-in mainline game for mobile... only to itself be shelved in favour of a Switch version.

 

This timeline at least makes some sense.  Though Game Freak’s resources would’ve been tapped up until releasing US/UM (they have only been able to work on 2 big 3DS games at a time, ignoring small garage projects like Tembo and Giga Crusher), so 2019 would still be cutting development time very short for a new Gen 8... I have very little faith in it turning out decent in any case; not just because of the influence of PoGo/mobile, but because of the ridiculously short dev time.

 

I expect them to reuse the Let’s Go engine for Gen 8.  Only way I can see them pulling off a sub 2 year dev time for it.

 

Edit: Or! Maybe they’re re-using the Gen 7 engine? Perhaps that’s where the Pokemon Stars rumours about it being on Switch came from? (From the porting tests, using existing Gen 7 assets to test how the engine porting process could work).  Perhaps wires got crossed between Gen 8 and US/UM that way? If so, then that explains the discrepancy in that rumour which was otherwise spot on!

 

Might also explain why Gen 7 went in so deep with the genwunner pandering (to make up for the loss of Let’s Go in 2016); Though I think it’s more likely that regional variants were always planned anyway, perhaps the decision to make them Kanto Pokemon only stemmed from Let’s Go’s original cancellation?

 

What do you reckon @Julius Caesar? @Glen-i?

Edited May 30, 2018 by Dcubed

[Glen-i]

7 minutes ago, Goron_3 said:

The more mainstream, family friendly Mario titles such as NSMB (DS, Wii and Wii U) didn't stop the existence of games like Mario Odyssey. Whilst I understand your concerns, I think it's clear that in the era of the Switch, Nintendo firmly understands the need to have 'system sellers' as well as the more 'broad' titles.

I know you mean well, but Mario Odyssey is not a game I enjoyed all that much. It was OK at best.

I'd rather play NSMB Wii.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, MindFreak said:

Honestly, I don't see why some are so furious about this. A real game is coming, this is just a step into the series for newcomers. It was always dubious how Game Freak would be able to make a totally new Pokémon game in such a short time since (U)S(U)M but this proves to be a good middle ground. It doesn't (necessarily) make the core series bad - they don't have to adopt every mechanic from LGPE and thus, we still now nothing about the next entries.

 

2 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

If the new Switch games sell stupidly well there's no doubt in my mind they will influence the next games.

I dunno why people are up in arms over stuff like this. Not every game has to be made for you and it's important to remember that there are other gamers who enjoy things that you don't. This is about introducing a different audience to the Pokemon games or trying to get others who have been away from the series for a long time to come back and try this.

 

Well said gents. I can't quite believe the negative reactions I'm reading. TPC gave fans the best of both worlds. A soft reboot to cater to Go players and casuals (like me) and a core game in 12-18 months. TPC know full well this isn't the type of game the hardcore fans want, but they clearly need more time to get it right.

It's ok that something isn't for you. It really is. Plenty other games to play and this will have zero impact on the next Gen game.

Spoiler

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Ronnie

[Daft]

3 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I love the look of this. Yeah, it's not a Pokemon game in the traditional sense ( apparently these are still being counted as part of the mainline games ) but it certainly looks a step in the right direction in terms of catering to the Pokemon Go audience and moving them over to playing on a console. The Pokeball accessory looks pretty neat and while I will never use this, being able to play local co-op is another addition.

I can see why many are up in arms over these games but with the success of Go the Pokemon Company would be foolish not to draw inspiration from it. Just look at the effect it has had on Nintendo's stock overnight . 

To people who continue to play and enjoy Pokemon Go ( @Shorty, @Daft, @BowserBasher, @MindFreak ) has this announcement got you interested in picking up the game?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I am all over this. I was a bit meh at first but with a proper game coming next year, a streamlined Gen 1 game with PoGo integration is great.

As far as I see it, this could be a series that gets sequels alongside PoGo as that game develops. And that's exciting. 

I really enjoyed Sun and Moon, but it's not an easy game to play when you're busy. Not battling wild Pokemon is a great idea for this (as long as it's kept in the main game because I agree it is important) because with EXP Share in S/M I never grinded in the wild. So to me, EXP Share was casual mode and this game is basically all casual and I think it's dope. And I am also excited for a full blown Pokemon game next year.

[Ronnie]

Really pleased with not battling wild Pokemon. That was my biggest annoyance in X, the random encounters really dragged the experience down after a while so speeding that aspect up is great news for me.

[BowserBasher]

4 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

To people who continue to play and enjoy Pokemon Go ( @Shorty, @Daft, @BowserBasher, @MindFreak ) has this announcement got you interested in picking up the game?

It certainly caught my interest, that I can say. I think I will hold off until more info is released on what, if any story there is. I love Go cause I can get outside and meet other players, if this is just Go on the switch then maybe I’ll pass. It seems it’ll be the original games with Go mechanics though. 

[Julius]

@Dcubed, yeah, I definitely think that this is reusing the engine of Gen VII. At this point, judging from the Gen VI-like Chibi character designs, to the camera angle in the overworld, and to the walking animations that were in Sun and Moon, I definitely think it’s a project which has been stop-start and in the works for quite some time, and there are even some jagged edges to the Pokémon and character models on show. Like I said before, maybe it wasn’t always intended as purely a GO-meets-core series game, but perhaps as a fully fledged one for the 20th Anniversary. 

I’m genuinely not worried about Gen VIII at this point, because I’m already seeing a handful of things with these games that I want to see carried over to the new games. Pokémon in the overworld is something that I’ve been harping on about for a while, and, assuming that this game was in production prior to next year’s title/s, I think we could see it evolved further with the main series titles. The much more vibrant colour palette that I feel went missing after Gen V in favour of a washed out watercolour shaders is also on show in what we’ve seen with these games, so I hope those carry over too. Throw in a controllable camera and some of the stuff that we always want to see in a core series Pokémon game in next year’s title/s (a half decent narrative, some smart evolutions in gameplay and game design features added in previous game - looking at you, Totem Pokémon) and I won’t have much, if anything, to complain about come next year.

I’ll remain optimistic until I have a genuine reason to become pessimistic, but as someone who was born at the peak of Pokémania, I’m just glad we might get some more people on-board for the next year’s games. I don’t think these games were an absolutely necessary stepping stone to draw people in, and I understand the distaste it might leave some fans with, but it’s Pokémon; I’m sure I’ll find some level of enjoyment in it, as I always have done.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Julius Caesar

[Glen-i]

@Dcubed, I think you're on to something with that "cancelled 20th anniversary game" I can definitely see the signs.

I will give this game credit for ditching the washed out colour palette of the 3DS games. It does look much nicer in that regard.

4 hours ago, Ronnie said:

It's ok that something isn't for you. It really is. Plenty other games to play and this will have zero impact on the next Gen game.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

No, don't even try that "It will have zero impact on the next game" rubbish. Because that's flat out insulting.

People tried to tell me the same thing when I aired my greivances about Pokémon GO. Trying to claim that because it's just a spin-off not made by Game Freak, it won't change what they do with their games.

And now here we are, a mainline game with heavy GO emphasis, I feel like an idiot for eventually believing what people told me about GO. Well, not this time.

If this game sells amazingly well (and with the double whammy of Switch's success and lowest common denominator pandering, I'm 95% sure it will), I'm petrified to think of how dumbed down future games will become. Probably not next year's game, too late to change that massively. But the game after that. What then?

I'm a massive Pokémon fan, I dedicate months to playing the games. And I'm not just gonna ignore this worrying turn the series is at risk of taking.

I like the random encounters. I like the incredible depth the series has. I like that there's over 800 of the buggers to discover. That you never have to worry about the underlying mechanics if you just want to play through the game. That no matter how much Pokémon from the 90's are shoved down your throat, you always have the option of just going with the ones you like.

So don't go trying to dismiss my opinion with "It's fine if it's not for you" and humourous comics. Because that's just aggravating. I love Pokémon games way too much to just be fine with this.

[DriftKaiser]

Guess we got another year of both legitimate and fake leaks about this 2019 games. I have no idea what they will do with Gen 8 but I'll love it if they brought the Rotomdex, pokemon follows you and Pokerides back for Gen 8. Also maybe they could introduce the portable PC box based on Pokeride Pager that allows you to swap pokemon outside the PokeCenter. I know I can't expect GameFreak to make the graphics look like other Nintendo games such as BOTW since they lacks that skills but maybe they could improve the post-game using the DLCs. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by DriftKaiser

[Ronnie]

19 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

@Dcubed, I think you're on to something with that "cancelled 20th anniversary game" I can definitely see the signs.

I will give this game credit for ditching the washed out colour palette of the 3DS games. It does look much nicer in that regard.

No, don't even try that "It will have zero impact on the next game" rubbish. Because that's flat out insulting.

People tried to tell me the same thing when I aired my greivances about Pokémon GO. Trying to claim that because it's just a spin-off not made by Game Freak, it won't change what they do with their games.

And now here we are, a mainline game with heavy GO emphasis, I feel like an idiot for eventually believing what people told me about GO. Well, not this time.

If this game sells amazingly well (and with the double whammy of Switch's success and lowest common denominator pandering, I'm 95% sure it will), I'm petrified to think of how dumbed down future games will become. Probably not next year's game, too late to change that massively. But the game after that. What then?

I'm a massive Pokémon fan, I dedicate months to playing the games. And I'm not just gonna ignore this worrying turn the series is at risk of taking.

I like the random encounters. I like the incredible depth the series has. I like that there's over 800 of the buggers to discover. That you never have to worry about the underlying mechanics if you just want to play through the game. That no matter how much Pokémon from the 90's are shoved down your throat, you always have the option of just going with the ones you like.

So don't go trying to dismiss my opinion with "It's fine if it's not for you" and humourous comics. Because that's just aggravating. I love Pokémon games way too much to just be fine with this.

No, what's insulting is being likened to "the lowest common denominator".

Contrary to what you may believe, other people are allowed to enjoy Pokemon in a way that works for them. I wasn't dismissing "your" opinion. Enough with the self-importance and bigging up your own opinions as the only one that matters, please. Just because it isn't some ultra hardcore game doesn't mean it's worthless. I wouldn't have touched another samey Sun/Moon type game, but this one I will absolutely be buying.

Pokemon are putting out the best of both worlds, a game that capitalises on Go's enormous popularity and a traditional adventure game they spoke about last year with another year of development under its belt.

If these new style games happen to sell crazy well (a good thing surely), the worst you can expect is for them to alternate between New Gen and Let's Go each year. Better than fleecing their fans with slightly altered "Ultra" versions instead.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Ronnie

[Glen-i]

1 minute ago, Ronnie said:

No, what's insulting is being likened to "the lowest common denominator".

Contrary to what you may believe, other people are allowed to enjoy Pokemon in a way that works for them. I wasn't dismissing "your" opinion. Enough with the self-importance and bigging up your own opinions as the only one that matters, please. Just because it isn't some convoluted hardcore game doesn't mean it's worthless. I wouldn't have touched another samey Sun/Moon type game, but this one I will absolutely be buying.

Pokemon are putting out the best of both worlds, a game that capitalises on Go's enormous popularity and a traditional adventure game they spoke about last year with another year of development under its belt.

IF these two games happen to sell crazy well (a good thing surely), the worst you can expect is for them to alternate between new gen/Let's Go each year. Better than fleecing their fans with slightly altered "Ultra" versions.

When did I say that people can't enjoy this? Don't put words in my mouth. I also never said my opinion is the only one that matters. Stop trying to depict me as some kind of irrational selfish person.

I stand by my "Lowest Common Denominator" remark, not as some way to insult you, but to remark on the focus of this game. Spin it any way you like, this game is absolutely aimed at the people who think Pokémon is too complicated and that there's too many of them, as well as those who stubbornly refuse to acknowledge any Pokémon that didn't exist in the 90's.

The "Best of both worlds" angle is perfectly fine in theory. But Pokémon has always been a series that builds off of previous games. If this sells gangbusters while Gen 8 sells more around Black/White numbers, then what's stopping them from ditching the more nuanced mechanics in order to chase that casual crowd?

And don't say that won't happen, because it's precisely what happened with Black/White. Almost all of the features introduced in that game are nowhere to be seen these days.

[Julius]

5 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

@Dcubed, I think you're on to something with that "cancelled 20th anniversary game" I can definitely see the signs.

I think that might have been me  

Quote

If this game sells amazingly well (and with the double whammy of Switch's success and lowest common denominator pandering, I'm 95% sure it will), I'm petrified to think of how dumbed down future games will become. Probably not next year's game, too late to change that massively. But the game after that. What then?

I'm a massive Pokémon fan, I dedicate months to playing the games. And I'm not just gonna ignore this worrying turn the series is at risk of taking.

I like the random encounters. I like the incredible depth the series has. I like that there's over 800 of the buggers to discover. That you never have to worry about the underlying mechanics if you just want to play through the game. That no matter how much Pokémon from the 90's are shoved down your throat, you always have the option of just going with the ones you like.

I’m not worried about next year’s game at all (I think things are actually shaping up for them to potentially hit it out of the park), but I’m worth you in being worried about what comes beyond that.

Now, if Let’s Go becomes a spin-off series and we get one every other year between the traditional core series games, I’m fine with that: so long as I’m kept busy with high quality spin-off Pokémon titles worked on by third parties, like in the heyday of the DS, with series like Conquest, Pokémon Ranger and Mystery Dungeon potentially making a return, alongside complete new and original series. These were great because they still felt immersed in the Pokémon world, and gave another look at the world from the perspective of people who aren’t trainers. 

What I’m not fine with is potentially remaking every single core series Pokémon game as a Let’s Go title, especially if it means that we don’t see a return to Sinnoh in the traditional remake sense that we saw with FRLG, HGSS and ORAS, and instead end up with Let’s Go Riolu! and Let’s Go Bidoof!. Also, what happens when Let’s Go inevitably takes a sales knock, like every other remake compared to main series titles, or GO slowly starts to fade away? Do Game Freak just drop years of groundwork? 

I’m happy that they’re taking risks - though, compared to what many have been begging for with Gen VIII, this seems a relatively safe one, at least on the business side of things - but I am worried that they’ll spread themselves to thin. Last I checked, Game Freak had ~170 employees, which isn’t enough to sustain a title a year for a prolonged period of time by any stretch of our imaginations. While it’s certainly possible that this isn’t too much of a stressor for the team, and that they’re getting some help from Niantic and Nintendo proper, and considering that it’s “only” a remake, the fact that Masuda-san is directing these games is kind of worrisome to me because of the lack of directors around Game Freak to swap in and out for the traditional core series games (and, selfishly, that he’s made my favourite Pokémon entries and I’d rather he be spearheading the traditional core series games). As much as I enjoyed SM and ORAS, the Lovecraftian/sci-fi undertones that Ohmori-san is going for in his games is going to take a while to get used to, at least for me. Morimoto-san and Unno-san have other roles at Game Freak too, I’m sure, but they could certainly be in a position to spearhead some games too. 

As someone who mainly plays for the main story, Pokédex completion and the post-game content, this new direction doesn’t bother me too much, as I only spend ~50 hours with a given core series title these days. But I can understand your concern, @Glen-i, and that of others who have hundreds (if not thousands!) of hours invested in the competitive scene; I’m relatively confident that things will return to normal with Gen VIII next year, and not change too drastically as a result of Let’s Go, but I can appreciate how one with so much time invested in the series would be worried about this new direction, given how it leads to questions about whether your time investment - and, more importantly, enjoyment of the series up to this point - could become watered down or invalidated. 

I still err on the side of optimism for the future of the series, and I’m happy for those who like what they see in these new titles, I genuinely am. But I do think that those whom currently lean towards worry or pessimism have every right to do so at this stage, both with regards to this pair of games and to the future of the franchise. I do think that there’s been a lot left unsaid, which puts some unnecessary pressure on next year’s title/s.

[Ronnie]

6 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

I stand by my "Lowest Common Denominator" remark, not as some way to insult you, but to remark on the focus of this game. Spin it any way you like, this game is absolutely aimed at the people who think Pokémon is too complicated and that there's too many of them, as well as those who stubbornly refuse to acknowledge any Pokémon that didn't exist in the 90's.

My point is, what exactly is wrong with that? If it makes some people happy, that's a good thing no?

If they're abandoning the usual hardcore mechanics or even just taking more casual aspects from it and implementing them into the next Gens, then absolutely get mad, but there's no indication of that happening at this stage. When have the Pokemon Company ever talked about their core Switch game so far in advance? The very fact that they mentioned it today should be reassuring. They know their hardcore fans are out there and aren't about to ditch them.

[Glen-i]

14 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

My point is, what exactly is wrong with that? If it makes some people happy, that's a good thing no?

If they're abandoning the usual hardcore mechanics or even just taking more casual aspects from it and implementing them into the next Gens, then absolutely get mad, but there's no indication of that happening at this stage. When have the Pokemon Company ever talked about their core Switch game so far in advance? The very fact that they mentioned it today should be reassuring. They know their hardcore fans are out there and aren't about to ditch them.

No, not yet. That's the point. I'm worried about the game after that. There's absolutely precedence for this kind of thing happening before. The Triple and Rotation Battle formats from Black and White are nowhere to be seen these days, the post-game variety of battle facilities have been whittled to the most basic minimal version and the people whose favourite Pokémon originated from the DS games are mostly ignored for the same bunch of Pokemon we see all the time.

Sure, this means nothing to players like you who have very little history with the games, but there are plenty of people out there just like me who value these things in a Pokémon game.

I'm not gonna claim that Game Freak will do what I fear, but no-one can prove they won't in 3 years or so. It's a possibility, and that's scary.

[Ronnie]

1 minute ago, Glen-i said:

No, not yet. That's the point. I'm worried about the game after that. There's absolutely precedence for this kind of thing happening before. The Triple and Rotation Battle formats from Black and White are nowhere to be seen these days, the post-game variety of battle facilities have been whittled to the most basic minimal version and the people whose favourite Pokémon originated from the DS games are mostly ignored for the same bunch of Pokemon we see all the time.

Sure, this means nothing to players like you who have very little history with the games, but there are plenty of people out there just like me who value these things in a Pokémon game.

I'm not gonna claim that Game Freak will do what I fear, but no-one can prove they won't in 3 years or so. It's a possibility, and that's scary.

All franchise games evolve for whatever the devs or publishers think is best. Of course it's a possibility that the series becomes more casual. It's also a possibility that Zelda ditches combat and becomes a walking simulator or Battle Royale game. Just not a very likely one.

They're releasing a new type of game that has a lot of people excited. No sense getting furious about it until there's actual evidence of Go functionality negatively interfering with future Gen games. IMO.

[Glen-i]

1 minute ago, Ronnie said:

They're releasing a new type of game that has a lot of people excited. No sense getting furious about it until there's actual evidence of Go functionality negatively interfering with future Gen games. IMO.

I stopped being furious about 5 hours ago. Now I'm just stating my opinion and worries that I have with a game from my favourite series taking this road.

[DriftKaiser]

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Really pleased with not battling wild Pokemon. That was my biggest annoyance in X, the random encounters really dragged the experience down after a while so speeding that aspect up is great news for me.

Use repeals. 😶 From what I saw in the trailer, it look like you still have the "encounters" with the wild pokemon when you getting too close to one of them in the grasses

Edited May 30, 2018 by DriftKaiser

[Julius]

1 minute ago, Glen-i said:

There's absolutely precedence for this kind of thing happening before. The Triple and Rotation Battle formats from Black and White are nowhere to be seen these days, the post-game variety of battle facilities have been whittled to the most basic minimal version and the people whose favourite Pokémon originated from the DS games are mostly ignored for the same bunch of Pokemon we see all the time.

Honestly, at this point, I think that the post-game itself has been whittled down to what they see as an obligatory checklist more so than anything else. I hate to say that, but the quality and quantity of what we’ve had to do in the post-game has been on a rapid decline since the DS games.

I mean, XY’s had three legendaries (if I recall correctly, with virtually no context) - a roaming legendary bird, Mewtwo, Zygarde - and the Battle Maison. ORAS’ had the Delta Episode, which is relatively short; a ridiculous amount of legendary Pokémon coming out of floating dimensional hoops, but, again, with zero context; and the return of the Battle Maison. SM had a couple of routes and the Battle Tree. I can’t comment on USUM’s, as I haven’t played those games. 

As someone who isn’t that interested in the competitive side of things - not for the want of trying, but, rather, for the lack of time to invest - I really do feel like the DS titles spoiled me and anyone like me who doesn’t dive into the competitive side of things. Before, the time that I did invest outside of Battle Facilities still seemed worthwhile, because I was still rewarded with the levelling up of my Pokémon, but most games seem to run out of challenging trainers to throw the player’s way come the mid-Lv. 60s. 

Diamond and Pearl had a lot of legendaries with contextual relevance to the game, which continues the sense of exploration; an entire island to explore; the Battle Tower; and Wi-Fi mythical events which didn’t just hand you legendary Pokémon on a silver platter, but actually had some context. Platinum added four more Battle Facilities and Gym Leader rematches. Many argue that GSC/HGSS doesn’t have much of a post-game, as they don’t consider Kanto to be post-game but a continuation of the story, and I can’t exactly disagree with them, but those games are filled with enough content as it is. Black and White had a whole new part of the region to explore, and Black and White 2 added some more new areas; the Pokémon World Tournament; a truckload of legendary Pokémon; and a whole lot of rematches. 

I think they really struggled with post-game content when the transition was made to 3D, because of the focus on technology that such a drastic visual change entails. I just hope that they can deliver a meaningful post-game which caters to their entire audience with next year’s title/s, especially when one considers the hike-up in RRP that we’re likely to see from the 3DS games to the Switch games. 

[Goron_3]

23 hours ago, Glen-i said:

I know you mean well, but Mario Odyssey is not a game I enjoyed all that much. It was OK at best.

I'd rather play NSMB Wii.

Fair enough. Likewise, there will be people, like my other half, who have zero interest in a mainline Pokemon game but are really excited to play this.

Regarding the potential dumbing down of the mainline games, I actually think the opposite will happen. I played Sun & Moon last year and it was clear that, much like with X and Y, the developers were already really holding the players hand at every opportunity. Exploration in S&M was pretty much non-existent and the opening 3-5 hours just constantly interrupted you to stop the player getting lost. Pokemon has always been accessible to children but with the 3DS games you can tell they literally had to go a bit overboard in game design. Nintendo games in general were like this in the Wii/Wii U era.

Things are different now. With the failure of the Wii U, I think it's clear that Nintendo want to give their developers a lot more freedom with it comes to game design. Look at the complexity of ARMS, Splatoon or the sheer difficulty of BOTW. Heck, even Mario Tennis looks to have a tonne of gameplay depth, a far cry from the Wii U game where rallies went on for ages as the developers didn't want casual players to get beaten easily.

I know Pokemon isn't made in house at Nintendo, but I definitely expect Pokemon to go the same way. 'Let's Go' is the perfect game to fit the 'Gotta Catch Em All' mantra whilst focusing on more casual players. The next gen games can focus on creating great adventures, safe in the knowledge that a more casual experience exists.