Josh64 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I was late to the HD game, finally getting a 360 in 2010. As a huge SEGA fan, OutRun Online Arcade was on my 'to buy' list from the store but with nearly 5 years worth of games to catch up on, it'd take me a while to get to that. When I finally went to buy it (a few years ago now) it was no longer available on the store. Due to the licence for Ferrari running out, it got pulled. With no physical copy in Europe I was kinda screwed and I never experienced this title. With the sudden downfall of Wii and DS online services, one of my favourite past times, BOOM STREET, was no longer an online affair and it seems there will never be a way for me to get that title back online. I love Sonic Runners for iOS atm, but it requires you to be online to play and often requires you to download new data for courses. Titles such as this will be completely unplayable in the future. As the Wii is now over 9 years old it got me thinking, just how safe are a lot of WiiWare titles? With some of them releasing at the early stages of console downloads, a lot of the developers are no longer around and some titles are even exclusive to WiiWare - these games could all become completely un-obtainable if the service was to go down soon. With more and more games being soley multiplayer experiences, such as Splatoon, in the years to come, how playable will these games be? We can replay Metroid, Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot today in the same way we could back then but in 20 years time, will we be able to say the same for a lot of current titles and will we even be able to get hold of them? I'd like to think there's some easy way to hold onto these but I'm not sure there is and as modern times have proved, you can't always rely on developers re-releasing old titles either due to licencing or weird hardware (Goldeneye, Donkey Kong 64). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekunando Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 It's funny you should mention Outrun as I too was interested in downloading it on PS3 relatively recently only to discover that it was no longer available The internet has been hugely beneficial for games since it started becoming mainstream but, like you, I worry about games that focus too heavily on this feature. Splatoon, for example, is a superb title and the single player mode is fun while it lasts but the online multiplayer is certainly the main draw of the game. As I've mentioned before, I can't even play it online since the August update as my connection doesn't appear to be strong enough. If I move house in the future and finally have better broadband, it's unlikely that the online aspect will still be supported by then or, if it is, will there still be many people playing? If there was decent 4-Player offline component, I wouldn't mind quite as much but I'm missing out on quite a lot right now I'm also still reluctant to download games these days if there is a physical copy available as at least I will always have it. I have, for example, Killer is Dead downloaded and paid for on PS3. It's not a great game, by any means, but if my PS3 stopped working and I lost all my data or had to buy a new system, who is to say I will be able to retrieve Killer is Dead or any of my other downloaded titles in 20 years time? The PlayStation Network may no longer exist, for whatever reason, so what happens to everything I purchased on there? The Wii is one system that probably concerns me the most as I have loads of great N64, SNES, Mega Drive and WiiWare games, amongst others, on the console but if anything ever happens to my Wii then they could all be gone forever. It's a little scary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 The whole thing is a big issue and something various different groups have somewhat different opinions on right now. It`s really quite a balancing act and I don`t really think we`ve come to a solid conclusion on how best to run these things. On the OutRun style scenario, from a Publishers point of view, it`s no different to how things were in the past. There comes a time when licenses expire and you can no longer legally sell the game and you`re forced to remove it from sale. In the old days you`d still have stock in shops, pre-owned versions, friends, ebay etc. as ways to get hold of it, now we flick a switch and that`s it no-one new can get hold of it. It`s certainly annoying but unfortunately there isn`t really anything we can do to solve that one. On the side of servers being turned off it`s a really tricky one. A Publisher doesn`t want to be forced to run a game operating at a loss, but it`s also not fair to consumers who have spent money to no longer provide the expected services they`ve paid for. If a game doesn`t seem to be performing as required then a sensible wind-down of operations is something that needs to be pushed forward, and hopefully you end up with a service that satisfies your smaller user-base while not costing too much money to run. Unfortunately it`s often the case that it`s all or nothing - and that`s where things really get tricky. From a personal point of view I`d much rather download everything and not buy any physical games at all. But I don`t trust all markets equally. I don`t mind spending money on the iPhone App Store as over every generation of hardware my purchases have carried over and are still safe in my account. I know if I upgrade my phone the things I`ve paid for will come along with me. I also don`t mind buying films on Amazon. They offer the service across multiple devices and I trust they will be around long enough for me to not worry about having my content library with them. Others I`m not so sure on, I don`t mind downloading PSN games but still tend to stick to buying the physical version on full games. When I finally buy a PS4 I want to download everything but I`m not sure it`s the best option. Nintendo consoles I`d tend to avoid downloads all together until they have themselves sorted out with online in general. It will be very interesting how things develop in this area both from the content creators side and legislation side over the next couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) Everything on Wii Ware and Virtual Console has been archived and is freely available on the internet via illicit means; so they're safe no matter what happens (not that I think that the Wii Shop Channel is going anywhere any time soon). DLC is a trickier matter, but worse still are the many updates and various versions of games that are available. While I'm sure these companies are archiving each version (I know that Nintendo do at least, they're released many different versions of games on the VC; Majora's Mask on the US VC was actually an earlier version with specific glitches like the Fierce Deity's Mask anywhere glitch being intact, while the UK VC version was a later one), they're unlikely to give out each and every single version when re-releasing them. So what if you want to roll back to an earlier version because it had a cool speed running glitch that you like? (I'm looking at you DKC, with your map warp glitch that was removed in Ver 1.2; the version that is on the Wii U VC), you can't! These companies should be making every version available and all the DLC available at every opportunity, but that's just not happening; let alone dealing with licensing issues... Again, we have to turn to pirates who keep this stuff all archived and that's not right! Edited January 15, 2016 by Dcubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 As the Wii is now over 9 years old it got me thinking, just how safe are a lot of WiiWare titles? With some of them releasing at the early stages of console downloads, a lot of the developers are no longer around and some titles are even exclusive to WiiWare - these games could all become completely un-obtainable if the service was to go down soon. With more and more games being soley multiplayer experiences, such as Splatoon, in the years to come, how playable will these games be? We can replay Metroid, Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot today in the same way we could back then but in 20 years time, will we be able to say the same for a lot of current titles and will we even be able to get hold of them? I'd like to think there's some easy way to hold onto these but I'm not sure there is and as modern times have proved, you can't always rely on developers re-releasing old titles either due to licencing or weird hardware (Goldeneye, Donkey Kong 64). Personally I'd like to hope than any platform holder would endeavour to try an ensure ongoing access to these titles regardless of the original devs/publishers. However I must admit I see that being something more likely to be done by MS and Sony than Nintendo at the moment. I do think agree with you over the concern of ongoing access/functionability for these items and titles, and that's why I've never really embraced the downloadable model for cheaper games except on PC/Steam - which has both a rich history of it, but also lesser barriers to doing so, and often when titles become abandonware they will re-appear elsewhere. Also the reduced price makes me feel like I'm losing less, if I do. Splatoon, and my latest favourite Destiny, however will pretty much be completely redundant. In Splatoon you can't even buy things from the shops without internet, and there's so many little online-ish aspects tucked in(such as your whole plaza etc) that you'd be stuck with basically just the single-player at some point. Destiny needs to be always on so that will be completely redundant whenever it's done. So my advice? If you're console gaming then don't buy digital. A physical product is much harder to lose access to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumo73 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Video games in general cost more and more to develop than they did in the past and companies need you to go out and buy the latest version and move away from the older versions so they can get a decent return on their investment. It makes little sense for a developer (or with a publisher breathing down their neck) to make a game that is really future proof. The single player campaign is moving towards becoming the training level (not all games) and the real game for some is online where developers can spend less time on making good A.I and get you to go out and buy extra DLC levels in order to get the most out of a game or being able to get 100% on all trophies/achievements. As far as the availability of WiiWare titles goes then I can see them being there for sometime (they are just titles on a server online rather than physical titles in a warehouse) especially as you don't need a Wii to play them on (ie Wii U) just as you can still download DSi titles on the 3DS. Whereas you can buy old Wii games second hand at a cheaper price, the price of WiiWare and other download titles generally keep their price and as long as Nintendo can make money on it, they will keep them available. The only thing I saw a while back was when Nintendo removed some old Hudson soft titles but they are back again now. Video games seem to be more temporary than they used to be and less future proof, the lack of offline multiplayer, lack of A.I bots, smaller single player campaign, DLC which at times cost almost the same as the game, bigger reliance on online servers which may or not be free and can be terminated within xx days notice it's not great news. Don't get me wrong there are some great games out there but I don't like what some publishers are doing now with video games. When the PS3 and Xbox 360 servers go just wait for the complaints. It will be just like 2014 all over again. Edited January 24, 2016 by sumo73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Really interesting discussion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekunando Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 On the rare occasions where I'm in town and walk into HMV, it always saddens me a little that you see lots of DVDs of films from years ago or CDs that were originally released a long time ago but you can't walk down an aisle and see things like SNES, N64 or even GC games and the like. Wouldn't it be great if some of these older classics were somehow still produced in some official capacity? I'd love to walk into a store and be greeted by shelves filled with newly released N64 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Really interesting discussion... Finally got around to watching this. Great little discussion. Firstly, I loved listening to Jared and his opening was spot on. The way that an old book or an old game has that ability to send you back in time is a powerful thing and one that needs to be preserved. Also, his face when they mention playing Super Mario on an iPhone was hilarious. The emulator talk was an interesting one. While I adore the Virtual Console, it's not without issues. Playing N64 games is a bit of a wonky affair if you need to use the C- buttons. On the Wii U these are mapped to the right control stick and I often find myself hitting what should be the left C button but the stick may just be hitting the down or up region. It happened lots while playing Ocarina of time and trying to select a weapon and also when playing Donkey Kong 64. I find the movement of the left stick isn't as tight as the one on the N64 as well. These things come back to what the guys were saying that even if you can manage to get the games looking like they did, chances are they aren't going to feel the same due to the controllers used being different. It's sad that the only way to get a good looking output for older consoles is by hooking up a CRT. You just have to look at the various retro threads on Gaf ( they have one for each console ) to see many of them trying to mod their consoles to create a better looking output on HD screens. The point about MMOs is a good one, especially if you look at games today. Even single player games have to be connected to a server for some bizarre reason. What happens when these shut down? You're screwed. When it was mentioned about those MMO experiences being lost I instantly thought of Phantasy Star Online. Man, what I would give for a port/re-release/sequel to be released over here in the west. In terms of preserving older games and their history, I know Colin and Greg from Kinda Funny/PS I Love you have spoken about this before. Colin is especially passionate about it as he grew up with a NES pad in his hands and often says how games were much better back during the NES/SNES era. It saddens him, and also me, that generations of games are simply going to be lost unless you have your own personal collection. Even then there's always the danger that your console could break, especially ones with CD drives and moving parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 It's an interesting discussion. Every medium has had to deal with preservation one way or the other. It's hard to find 19th century Portuguese books with the actual spelling of the time, for example. Also, there are films that were designed first and foremost to be seen in a theatre (recent example: Avatar), and it's pretty difficult to turn an entire room into a full blown cinema experience (for people doing it as a hobby, I mean). And music has had vinyls, CDs and digital stores throughout the years. Videogames have had to deal with this aging process a tad quicker, which is why we've taken notice so early. Some things we just have to accept (for example, the old TVs, we kind of have to accept that these will be exclusive to museums and collectors), but it's also entirely possible to preserve the software (and pretty easily, too, you don't need tapes, or anything of the sort). The problem is, what exactly is being done? Props to the Virtual Console, PS+ and services like GOG and Steam, but I can't help but feel like it isn't enough: these old games need old controllers. I don't mean we need to keep the old consoles to do that, but it would be nice if old controllers were more readily available to plug into more modern devices. And another aspect where these services aren't enough: they aren't visible in the mainstream market. Like somebody said, you can find stuff like Casablanca, Snow White, Back to the Future and Fight Club all in the same HMV, but the same can't be said for videogames (all the old stuff is digital). All of that said, I still think people are in the right path when it comes to preserving old stuff, even if I think there's still plenty to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 It's hard to find 19th century Portuguese books with the actual spelling of the time, for example. Tell me about it! Story of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts