Yooka-Laylee

[Dcubed]

Of course Ronnie is allowed to share his opinion (even if I feel he's being unreasonable regarding the game's visuals). It's a shame that he can't seem to see the positives with this game though, because he'd probably love it if he gave it a fair shake (speaking as someone who's played the Toybox + and who loves the original BK/BT games).

 

Edit: Oh! BTW, the option to switch your Kickstarter copy from Wii U to Switch is now available on Backerkit. Just did mine.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Dcubed

[Serebii]

Of course Ronnie is allowed to share his opinion (even if I feel he's being unreasonable regarding the game's visuals). It's a shame that he can't seem to see the positives with this game though, because he'd probably love it if he gave it a fair shake (speaking as someone who's played the Toybox + and who loves the original BK/BT games).

 

Edit: Oh! BTW, the option to switch your Kickstarter copy from Wii U to Switch is now available on Backerkit. Just did mine.

Same

 

I'm not expecting this to be the best game ever, or to look like the most amazing game ever.

 

It's strange though, the casino level actually reminded me of a couple of levels from Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts

[Ronnie]

You're comparing it to games made by Nintendo, with multimillion dollar budgets and teams of anywhere from 75-150 people large.

 

No. I was responding to someone who compared it to games made by Nintendo in the first place. Easier to have a go at me though I guess.

 

Have you actually read his posts? His argument is poor, centering around a cherry-picked screenshot.

 

I could have picked any screenshot from that demo. The first one was literally the first place I clicked.

 

People are allowed to slag off Nintendo, let people love them too!

 

It's incredible isn't it. A couple of posts criticising a non-Nintendo game and all of a sudden there's uproar like

 

Ok, so this is turning into a "shit on Yooka-Laylee" situation and destroys any kind of possible discussion people may have.

 

[Glen-i]

Easier to have a go at me though I guess.

 

Comments like that make it very hard for me to be sympathetic.

 

I could have picked any screenshot from that demo. The first one was literally the first place I clicked.

 

Well, maybe you should have made sure the image was actually representative of the proper resolution if you were looking to make a point about the visuals then.

[Ronnie]

Well, maybe you should have made sure the image was actually representative of the proper resolution if you were looking to make a point about the visuals then.

 

I was commenting on the lighting, colours and shadows, those don't need resolution to be critical, but ok. Apologies for not putting a 1080p screenshot up. The quality of that video is very poor at times though.

 

[Kav]

The problem is, the criticisms you level against this game are criticisms you shout back at when people level them at Nintendo.

 

Anyway, I've changed from PS4 to Switch version... the portability of Switch is what swayed me. I'd like this game on the go.

[Shorty]

^ what's actually wrong with that screenshot anyway? I mean, ignoring the fact it's low res and been stretched up to 1920x1080. It's hard to even tell what's going on, there's bloom, transparency and particle effects happening and bouncing towards the screen, the character is mid-animation, the characters seem to have an intentionally blocky/square design presumably relative to their position in the game, and the squares etc are likely to look a lot better when animated.

 

Feels like a frame has been taken way out of context and judged really pointlessly. It's like if you were to take this frame:

 

 

And then claim that the art for Aladdin looks terrible

[Ronnie]

The problem is, the criticisms you level against this game are criticisms you shout back at when people level them at Nintendo.

 

What?

 

I think the casino level in this game looks ugly. If someone wants to suggest Nintendo games are ugly, feel free. This is a discussion board and I'm sharing my fears about this game and the reason why I may cancel my pre-order.

 

The real point is, criticism of Nintendo is fine, dozens of posts every day complaining about them, but when someone dares to question anything non-Nintendo all hell breaks loose.

 

^ what's actually wrong with that screenshot anyway?

 

I think it's ugly as fuck. The colours, the (lack of) lighting, everything about it. Your Aladdin screenshot is a completely different case. The colours are lovely, the drawing is nice, it's not ugly, just poorly timed.

[Glen-i]

^ what's actually wrong with that screenshot anyway? I mean, ignoring the fact it's low res and been stretched up to 1920x1080. It's hard to even tell what's going on, there's bloom, transparency and particle effects happening and bouncing towards the screen, the character is mid-animation, the characters seem to have an intentionally blocky/square design presumably relative to their position in the game, and the squares etc are likely to look a lot better when animated.

 

Feels like a frame has been taken way out of context and judged really pointlessly. It's like if you were to take this frame:

 

 

And then claim that the art for Aladdin looks terrible

 

I always love those mid-action animation stills. Pretty much all of them are funny when not in motion.

 

I believe @Ronnie is trying to say that that shot (and by extension) the Casino level isn't visually appealing. And it's making him concerned.

 

On the other hand, this has been confirmed by Playtonic that this was the wrong footage they sent to IGN which suggests that it might be from an earlier build. Not to mention, all the other worlds look gorgeous.

 

I'm not worried by this, and I don't think anyone else should be.

 

Even when I was playing the Toybox (Which is a very early build), I was thinking, this looks just lovely.

[Kav]

Bollocks @Ronnie, people had criticised Nintendo's art style before and have been hit with the whole "its better than brown or grey" lark so many times on here!

 

I've criticised Nintendo's lack of online and been met with "stop moaning" a shed load. That is in no way a discussion!

Others here have said that if you look at other shots and other vids it looks good and that the picture you posted isn't necessarily indicative of what the game actually looks like... that IS discussion!

 

But you don't ever actually discuss! You just shout your point to try drown out others.

 

Why not talk about it?

[Glen-i]

Bollocks @Ronnie, people had criticised Nintendo's art style before and have been hit with the whole "its better than brown or grey" lark so many times on here!

 

I've criticised Nintendo's lack of online and been met with "stop moaning" a shed load. That is in no way a discussion!

Others here have said that if you look at other shots and other vids it looks good and that the picture you posted isn't necessarily indicative of what the game actually looks like... that IS discussion!

 

But you don't ever actually discuss! You just shout your point to try drown out others.

 

Why not talk about it?

 

I get the point you're trying to make, but do you really think starting your point with testicles is going to help?

[Kav]

I get the point you're trying to make, but do you really think starting your point with testicles is going to help?

 

Haha, true. My bad, I apologise if I offended @Ronnie or anyone else.

[Ronnie]

Bollocks @Ronnie, people had criticised Nintendo's art style before and have been hit with the whole "its better than brown or grey" lark so many times on here!

 

If someone wants to criticise a Nintendo games visuals, feel free. The point you're referring to was criticism at them using the same style over and over. Not the visuals themselves. If people actively dislike the visuals of a game, that's their prerogative.

 

I've criticised Nintendo's lack of online and been met with "stop moaning" a shed load. That is in no way a discussion!

 

I criticised Yooka-Laylee's visuals once and was told to stop shitting on the game. That is in no way a discussion!

 

and that the picture you posted isn't necessarily indicative of what the game actually looks like...

 

It's indicative of the casino level though which was the subject of discussion at the time, given the level had just been revealed for the first time.

 

Why not talk about it?

 

You mean like this...?

 

I completely agree with you. I've never seen the appeal throughout development and it's the reason why I'll probably ask for a refund. The collect-a-thon gameplay just seems so dated and I think basing your entire game on nostalgia and out of date mechanics is a bad move. 3D Mario this is not.

 

and then got this nonsense as a reply

 

I like Yooka-Laylee's look much better than anything I've ever seen in a Nintendo game...

 

"LOL, you haven't seen much then." - Yes, I have.

"What the fuck? You have no taste." - I have a different taste.

"Your taste sucks." - Great comment. Superb foundation for a discussion.

"Look how awesome [insert Nintendo game] looks." - Looks good, I like Yooka-Laylee's look better.

"What the fuck? You hav..." - Yeah, we've been there.

And for me Ratched and Clank as a whole is miles ahead of any 3D Mario.

 

"OH MY GOD, ridiculous." - Ok.

"Mario is the pinnacle of gaming." - Not to me.

"Ratched and Clank is boring". - Not to me.

Different strokes.

[Naar]

Why spend [waste] time talking about a game you dont like [based on visuals, which is complete bullshit offcourse]? This forum has more threads than just this one.

[Glen-i]

Why spend [waste] time talking about a game you dont like [based on visuals, which is complete bullshit offcourse]? This forum has more threads than just this one.

 

@Ronnie did contribute to the Kickstarter. He's put more money towards it than the majority of gamers. It's OK to be worried by things you don't like the look of.

 

That said, in most games, visuals are the least important aspect of a game.

Granted, a truly 'ugly' game can be detrimental to some one's enjoyment.

 

Ugly is a strong word in this case though. I have seen many games that look way worse than the screenshot in question.

[Ronnie]

Why spend [waste] time talking about a game you dont like [based on visuals, which is complete bullshit offcourse]? This forum has more threads than just this one.

 

The same reason you spent [wasted] time talking about an online service you don't like, because that's what people do on a discussion board.

 

@Ronnie did contribute to the Kickstarter. He's put more money towards it than the majority of gamers. It's OK to be worried by things you don't like the look of.

 

That said, in most games, visuals are the least important aspect of a game.

Granted, a truly 'ugly' game can be detrimental to some one's enjoyment.

 

Ugly is a strong word in this case though. I have seen many games that look way worse than the screenshot in question.

 

Visuals are really important to me, not in the sense that look how technically amazing Horizon looks but whether a game is good looking or not (eg: Captain Toad or Zelda BOTW). Just to point out though, my main problem with how this game is shaping up is that I think the gameplay seems very dull, which was the original point I made yesterday, before we got onto the visuals.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Ronnie

[Shorty]

I feel like you might appreciate the visuals and gameplay more when you have it in your hands. If it does it right, and captures how BK etc felt, you'll come to appreciate it. Iirc you did not play BK, which had similar cartoony, blocky graphics which in a way were simplistic, and to observe someone playing it, it looked very basic. But when you were actually in those sprawling worlds, making use of tight controls and exacting some creative problem solving, it all came together and created a wonderful, vibrant cartoony world that was very well designed, funny, atmospheric, well thought out and a joy to play.

 

Of course, there's no guarantee that it'll recapture that old magic, it's been a long time and a lot has changed. We'll have to wait and see.

[drahkon]

I will definitely use the victim card more often from now on.

[Cube]

In terms of the lighting and shadows: other parts of the game (as well as the Toybox) shows that Yooka-Laylee has good lighting and shadows (including the important "fake shadow always below character when jumping").

[Ashley]

What did I accidentally start...?

 

Anyway, I was talking about 3D World specifically, not 3D Marios in general.

 

And for what it's worth it's more than just flagpoles as suggested; flagpoles (2D Marios), the four characters and their abilities (SMB2), the promotional art style (SMB2), the costumes (SMB3), the Mario Kart stage (take a guess) and the music remixes/samples (various) off the top of my head. And again, this isn't bad. Nintendo's whole schtick is "hey remember the 80s/90s?" and they do it very well, but to criticise another game for relying on nostalgia when Nintendo has re-released the same old games about half a dozen times in the last decade (Wii, Wii U, 3DS, New 3DS, Mini NES) is a bit lopsided.

 

We may well find out Nintendo do it a lot better than Playtonic, but I think the success and the buzz around the Kickstarter shows there is an appetite for this type of game. Just need to find out how well its been baked.

[Sheikah]

^ what's actually wrong with that screenshot anyway? I mean, ignoring the fact it's low res and been stretched up to 1920x1080. It's hard to even tell what's going on, there's bloom, transparency and particle effects happening and bouncing towards the screen, the character is mid-animation, the characters seem to have an intentionally blocky/square design presumably relative to their position in the game, and the squares etc are likely to look a lot better when animated.

 

Feels like a frame has been taken way out of context and judged really pointlessly. It's like if you were to take this frame:

 

And then claim that the art for Aladdin looks terrible

 

He also keeps mentioning that the game has poor shadow effects. The characters in that screenshot are all stood on a lit floor.

 

For reference to reality:

[Ronnie]

And for what it's worth it's more than just flagpoles as suggested; flagpoles (2D Marios), the four characters and their abilities (SMB2), the promotional art style (SMB2), the costumes (SMB3), the Mario Kart stage (take a guess) and the music remixes/samples (various) off the top of my head. And again, this isn't bad. Nintendo's whole schtick is "hey remember the 80s/90s?" and they do it very well, but to criticise another game for relying on nostalgia when Nintendo has re-released the same old games about half a dozen times in the last decade (Wii, Wii U, 3DS, New 3DS, Mini NES) is a bit lopsided.

 

Sure but my point was, strip away all the nostalgic touches from 3D World and you're left with a great game. Strip away the nostalgic touches from Yooka-Laylee and I worry you're left with a "My First Unity Project".

 

We'll see, I hope I'm wrong. It just feels like this game panders to nostalgia without modernising, like they took the good AND bad from the N64 era. Another nostalgia-fuelled experience, Shovel Knight, borrowed from the past but threw away things that didn't work, as our hero Mark Brown talks about in one of his recent videos.

 

Sure the annoying sound effects remind people of Banjo, but is that actually a good thing?

 

He also keeps mentioning that the game has poor shadow effects. The characters in that screenshot are all stood on a lit floor.

 

[Ashley]

Fair points, but I don't necessarily agree with them all for various reasons. 3D World was solid, but (to me) bland because it was the latest in a long line of non-open world Marios. This has the advantage of not being the same as a lot of recent games, but yes it may turn out bad. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. You say it looks like "my first Unity project", but the people responsible have decades of experience and I don't think that's going to be for nothing.

 

And the sounds are a nice little signature style, like the eyes. It's a nod to the past. Mario hasn't learned more than five words in thirty years and it's only now the Zelda universe has a voice. It's their style.

[Sheikah]

No idea what you're trying to say there Ronnie. They're indoors and you can't see the light source (you're not going to get proper shadows if the lighting is uniformly distributed).

 

As for outdoors:

 

Still think it's a good idea to base so much on a couple of screenshots?

[Kav]

It looks nowhere near as bad as Ronnie has made out...