Hero-of-Time Posted February 11, 2014 Author Posted February 11, 2014 i have not read the article, but my personal opinion on the innovation debate is that Sony and Microsoft copy Nintendo. There can be little argument that Sony in particular have copied Nintendo, especially their controllers. Kinect is a direct result of trying to take motion gaming and forward it a step further. I may be wrong but I don't recall any instances where Nintendo have copied either Sony or Microsoft, in fact with Wii they seemed to intentionally go the opposite direction and yet what happened there... Sony and Microsoft jumped on the family/casual bandwagon and started churning out Wii esque games.But that's just my opinion before WW4 breaks out. There's no doubt the Nintendo innovate but so do others. Online gaming on consoles is as big as it is now thanks to Microsoft pushing it in the original Xbox. Games wise Sony have really shone this last generation with new and exciting software. Tearaway is a prime example of this and puts Nintendo to shame when it comes to innovating with their current control scheme. Tearaway used just about every aspect of the Vita yet none if it felt like a gimmick. There's also nothing wrong with copying competitors and it's something I would like Nintendo to remember. They seem to have the attitude that if they don't come up with it then they don't want anything to do with it.
Retro_Link Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Sounds very fanboyish.Yeah that's what I meant by them being the next High Voltage Software. They seem to be approaching the Wii U with the same attitude HVS took with The Conduit and all their tech demo's, showcases and promises for exclusive Wii games. Ultimately they couldn't deliver. But on the other side it's great to see passion for the Wii U and I'll look forward to seeing what they're working on.
Andyliini Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 So it's OK for some to delay, cancel and gimp their releases, therefore showing hate, but not OK to come out and say directly how things are? Right...
Hero-of-Time Posted February 11, 2014 Author Posted February 11, 2014 So it's OK for some to delay, cancel and gimp their releases, therefore showing hate, but not OK to come out and say directly how things are? Right... How does delaying a game show hate? If that's the case Nintendo must REALLY hate themselves. Delays are done mostly for business reasons, not out of spite.
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Sounds very fanboyish. So Nintendo fan boys/enthusiasts want to make games for Nintendo? Sounds great to me!
Sheikah Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 So it's OK for some to delay, cancel and gimp their releases, therefore showing hate, but not OK to come out and say directly how things are? Right... Yeah come on, show hate - really? Is that what you interpret when a company cancels DLC for the Wii U? That they personally hate the console? They're withdrawing because there's no money in it because Nintendo truly fucked up with their console.
Goron_3 Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 There's no doubt the Nintendo innovate but so do others. Online gaming on consoles is as big as it is now thanks to Microsoft pushing it in the original Xbox. Games wise Sony have really shone this last generation with new and exciting software. Tearaway is a prime example of this and puts Nintendo to shame when it comes to innovating with their current control scheme. Tearaway used just about every aspect of the Vita yet none if it felt like a gimmick. There's also nothing wrong with copying competitors and it's something I would like Nintendo to remember. They seem to have the attitude that if they don't come up with it then they don't want anything to do with it. Perfect post. Look at some of the most innovative platformers last generation...Limbo, Braid and Journey. How many were on the Wii? Nintendo innovate with hardware, which can be hit and miss. They try to be different but what they've forgotten is that the Nintendo difference is not hardware, it's software; it's about the games (as Reggie said at E3 2004). I also don't buy into the 'Microsoft only went with Kinect' to copy Nintendo argument because since day 1, the whole point of Xbox was to make it the entertainment centre of your living room; the role of kinect has very little to do with appealing to the Wii Sports crowd and much more to do with everything it offers (not that I'm a huge fan of it).
Andyliini Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Yeah come on, show hate - really? Is that what you interpret when a company cancels DLC for the Wii U? That they personally hate the console? They're withdrawing because there's no money in it because Nintendo truly fucked up with their console. I knew you would attack me for that. Keep 'em coming, I know you can.
liger05 Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 So it's OK for some to delay, cancel and gimp their releases, therefore showing hate, but not OK to come out and say directly how things are? Right... Thats there opinion of how things are and if they believe that then fine. However I wouldnt expect such language from a professional studio. We dont even know who these people are.
Sheikah Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 When and where were you attacked, out of interest?
Andyliini Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Many times before, you should know. First was the time I mentioned PS3 had no games that interest me.
Sheikah Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 No, you just said I knew you would attack me for that. I am asking where you think I attacked you now, since I clearly didn't.
Clownferret Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Perfect post. Look at some of the most innovative platformers last generation...Limbo, Braid and Journey. How many were on the Wii? Nintendo innovate with hardware, which can be hit and miss. They try to be different but what they've forgotten is that the Nintendo difference is not hardware, it's software; it's about the games (as Reggie said at E3 2004). I also don't buy into the 'Microsoft only went with Kinect' to copy Nintendo argument because since day 1, the whole point of Xbox was to make it the entertainment centre of your living room; the role of kinect has very little to do with appealing to the Wii Sports crowd and much more to do with everything it offers (not that I'm a huge fan of it). sometimes it's the hardware that makes the software innovative. Wii Sports was so good because of the hardware. Without the wiimote, wii sports could not exist. Wii Sports almost single handed shifted 100 million consoles (you could also include the balance board in that) when was the last time you saw that kind of innovation. There is no way on God's earth that Move and Kinect were just a coincidence. No mention of these products at launch, Wii takes over the world and suddenly Sony and Microsoft have similar products coming to market. Kinect even launched with a Wii sports style game.
Sheikah Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 @Clownferret there's a host of stuff that Nintendo need to copy but don't, such as a robust online infrastructure (copy the PS3's and not PS4's if they want to keep it free), accounts system and storage space, but don't. The fact Nintendo get copied but don't copy much themselves is a very bad thing. It doesn't mean that that they are innovation kings because they mostly just seem to get copied, it's more indicative of their refusal to modernise and adapt.
Pestneb Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Thats there opinion of how things are and if they believe that then fine. However I wouldnt expect such language from a professional studio. We dont even know who these people are. Not in general, but this is marketing. 1) they are too small to be multiplatform 2) the Wii U has a games drought... making new games stand out more than they may have otherwise done... so they have chosen which console to focus on. 3) by attacking all but their target console, they position themselves as "buddies" of all the Wii U only crowd. 4) I would be surprised if they were real - "EA" "AE". idk.. it just doesn't ring true.
Kav Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 ...Look at some of the most innovative platformers last generation...Limbo, Braid and Journey. How many were on the Wii?... SMG, SMG2, Rayman Origins, Lost in Shadow, LostWinds, LostWinds 2, De Blob, De Blob 2, Sonic Colours..? I'd say they're innovative. SMG and SMG2 alone were so amazingly full of great ideas and innovations, I was completely blown away by them.
Fused King Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Right, there is no chance in hell that NINTENDO isn't doing a Nintendo Direct on Valentine's Day. NINTENDO loves love and smiles and it would be the perfect opportunity to announce another girl character in Smash (even though it might be rather sexist ) which would be Dixie Kong.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 11, 2014 Author Posted February 11, 2014 SMG, SMG2, Rayman Origins, Lost in Shadow, LostWinds, LostWinds 2, De Blob, De Blob 2, Sonic Colours..? I'd say they're innovative. SMG and SMG2 alone were so amazingly full of great ideas and innovations, I was completely blown away by them. Indeed. The point is though that there are other developers out there creating innovating games and experiences. These articles seem to think that Nintendo are the only ones that are capable of this.
STU-bot Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 According to vgchartz sales for the wii u version of Rayman : Legends have been overtaken by the ps3 version, 300k to 280k on wii u. A complete flop for ubisoft regardless.
Blade Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 According to vgchartz sales for the wii u version of Rayman : Legends have been overtaken by the ps3 version, 300k to 280k on wii u. A complete flop for ubisoft regardless. Not really surprising considering the userbase for the PS3 is absolutely massive compared to the Wii U.
Clownferret Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 @Clownferret there's a host of stuff that Nintendo need to copy but don't, such as a robust online infrastructure (copy the PS3's and not PS4's if they want to keep it free), accounts system and storage space, but don't. The fact Nintendo get copied but don't copy much themselves is a very bad thing. It doesn't mean that that they are innovation kings because they mostly just seem to get copied, it's more indicative of their refusal to modernise and adapt. Yeah of course there are plenty of things Sony and Microsoft do better than Nintendo. I may be in the minority but I like the fact that copying the opposition is not in Nintendos make up. That for me is what makes them such great innovators because they come up with this stuff time and again rather than just looking over the fence and keeping up with the Jones'. As it is Sony and Microsoft produce very similar consoles every gen, what would be the point in having a third generic console. Look what happened when Microsoft tried doing their own thing with xb1the gaming community were in uproar and they had to backtrack on their entire ethos.
STU-bot Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Not really surprising considering the userbase for the PS3 is absolutely massive compared to the Wii U. True and at least it still beat the 360 version but choosing vita over 3ds didn't do ubisoft any favours. Nintendo will have to do something this year to address the 3rd party issue. Paying for exclusive dlc timed or otherwise is something that is badly needed in order to compete with other platforms. If ubisoft had promised extra content for the wii u version of Watchdogs then the wait would be worth it. Gamepad support simply isn't enough to get people to buy a wii u version of a multi-platform release.
Goron_3 Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Not really surprising considering the userbase for the PS3 is absolutely massive compared to the Wii U. Yup, and the majority of those sales likely came from the game being slashed in price.
Sheikah Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Yeah of course there are plenty of things Sony and Microsoft do better than Nintendo. I may be in the minority but I like the fact that copying the opposition is not in Nintendos make up. That for me is what makes them such great innovators because they come up with this stuff time and again rather than just looking over the fence and keeping up with the Jones'. As it is Sony and Microsoft produce very similar consoles every gen, what would be the point in having a third generic console. Look what happened when Microsoft tried doing their own thing with xb1the gaming community were in uproar and they had to backtrack on their entire ethos. I don't see how you can be proud of them not adopting certain things though. They can still try to push things like motion controls while also developing a decent online system, upping storage space and making the hardware power exciting to the consumer/devs. Some things should be copied if it's something people want. Edited February 11, 2014 by Sheikah
Ashley Posted February 11, 2014 Posted February 11, 2014 Plus I think there's a difference between 'copying' and realising the potential/need for something to become standard.
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