Wii U General Discussion

[Sheikah]

For actual evidence to support my point, look at the sales of similar Nintendo franchises on a console people do want (3DS). People do want Nintendo games; they are really good. They're more popular than more recent franchises that have been mentioned before. Nintendo just aren't competing though in the home console sector these days. They've lost third party support and the Wii U is performing really badly. Now people that do like Nintendo games may pass up future releases because they don't want to sink £200 on a Wii U.

 

As for people gravitating towards a console that has the games they want - naturally. But that doesn't in any way mean that Nintendo games sell well because they are on a specific machine. If every Nintendo game of the noughties released on the epically successful PS2 instead of the gamecube, do you think Nintendo would have sold no games? I imagine they very much would have sold games. Probably more.

 

If Nintendo went elsewhere, the core audience would likely follow. Similarly, those who like Nintendo but not enough to buy a Wii U would now be able to get Nintendo games.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sheikah

[liger05]

Here's an interesting perspective on Nintendo's position amongst investors from David Jaffe (creator of Twisted Metal & God of War)

 

http://nintendoeverything.com/david-jaffe-weighs-in-on-nintendos-latest-financial-news-says-iwata-should-stick-around/#more-147620

 

 

 

He's right really when you think about it. Failure is a powerful teacher and grants a company a powerful knowledge base. Nintendo went through this song and dance before and the result afterwards was the most successful period in their history (Wii & DS); Apple went through the same kind of thing back in the late 90s/early 00s and look where they are now!

 

Jettisoning Iwata and destroying Nintendo's BOD and their company culture would be throwing away everything that they had learned. Perhaps their current struggles will eventually create a stronger Nintendo than ever before!

 

They cannot stay the current course forever, but they also can't afford to abandon their culture and who they are. Whatever changes they make, they need to make them while also holding onto their company's strengths and that won't happen if Iwata leaves. They've done it before and they can do it again.

 

Oh I defiantly feel failure can be a great benefit and enable people to learn however I'm not convinced Iwata is the guy. I fail to comprehend how a CEO of a company like Nintendo failed to see what so many other people did. Either that or he was aware of where the market was going and stubbornly decided to ignore those trends and is now paying the price.

 

Even after E3 2011 and 2012 where the response to the console was timid at best I honestly belie Iwata thought 100 mil Wii owners were just waiting for the wii u to be released and they would be ok. I'm baffled how a CEO can think that when all the signs were there to suggest otherwise.

[khilafah]

really do hope Iwata has finally accepted that the Wii crowd has gone and wont be coming back.

 

The advertising that we got before Wii U launch shows where nintendo got is so wrong. Was a complete mess!

 

I do still worry that he thinks nintendo can come up with some crazy gimmick though and everything will turn around.

[Pestneb]

For actual evidence to support my point, look at the sales of similar Nintendo franchises on a console people do want (3DS). People do want Nintendo games; they are really good. They're more popular than more recent franchises that have been mentioned before.

there's really nothing more to say other than what you did was a bad comparison

I see the point you are trying to make, but Andylinii made a similarly flawed comparison and your rejected it.

 

1)The handheld market is a different market. The games I enjoy on a handheld aren't the same type of game I enjoy on a home console, your point more accurately demonstrates that there is healthy appetite for Nintendo handheld games. Perhaps that is leverage Nintendo should use to encourage Wii U ownership. Perhaps additional content that can only be accessed via a Wii U?

2) The 3ds is still a Nintendo console. People bought it to play Nintendo games. If these games were released on the Vita, and % wise made a similar impact, I would be persuaded, but this is just another example of Nintendo games selling well on Nintendo consoles.

 

AndyLinii's comparison may have been flawed, but is perhaps the closest real world examples we can use to guess audience on other consoles.

Nintendo's games sell well, no one has as yet denied that, afaik, but there (obviously) is no real data to show definitively how they would fare on other consoles. It is all speculation, but Nintendo certainly don't seem to be convinced that it would be a profitable move.

 

 

Nintendo just aren't competing though in the home console sector these days. They've lost third party support and the Wii U is performing really badly. Now people that do like Nintendo games may pass up future releases because they don't want to sink £200 on a Wii U.

 

Sheikah, Nintendo ARE competing, There is a difference between the word "competing" and "winning". They may not be competing effectively at this moment, but they are never the less competing.

 

Also, I didn't want to sink money into the xbox to play Halo. MS didn't port it to the ps2.... Also I think if you look at the average Wii U/PS4/X1 owner, I think you would find a Wii U owner would represent a far larger profit for Nintendo in terms of sales, assuming all 3 were given equal access to Nintendo games.

As it stands, Nintendo have a reduced amount of competition on the Wii U, so there software is boosted by that. On the PS4/X1 it is likely that even if they aren't directly competing, some Nintendo releases may be overshadowed by other games. If everyone is buying COD on the PS4/X1, you are less likely to pick up Mario while all your friends are playing online Cod. You'd think "I'll get it later".

I've done this before. Those "I'll buy it later" purchases were rarely made....

 

As for people gravitating towards a console that has the games they want - naturally. But that doesn't in any way mean that Nintendo games sell well because they are on a specific machine. If every Nintendo game of the noughties released on the epically successful PS2 instead of the gamecube, do you think Nintendo would have sold no games? I imagine they very much would have sold games. Probably more.

In the gamecube era, yes, as now, it would appear to make sense to have sold on the PS2. My point is that if they had done so, the Wii either would never have existed, or would have flopped epically.

Short term thinking works in the short term, but it's not a path to success.

I imagine there was more money in the Wii years than in the potential 3rd party PS2 developer path. Obviously there is no way to tell for sure, hence our imagining.

those who like Nintendo but not enough to buy a Wii U would now be able to get Nintendo games.

 

 

You know what, for a gamer competition in hardware is an overwhelmingly negative thing. I would love for Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to form a consortium that sets out standards for gaming, a standard format that all video game consoles would conform too, so that we could all play whatever games we wanted to. It would be better for games developers too, no more cross platform. I guess they could even develop software so that a video game environment could be set within a PC environment. "G9 console environment or whatever, so developers only needed to make 1 version of all their games. All 3 developers get a 10% licensing cut from all games.

That would be my dream 9th generation console.

So why don't they do that? Each generation they would be guaranteed 10% of 300 million or so gamers.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Pestneb

[Sheikah]

You and I are arguing over 2 popular uses of the word 'compete'. You can argue that by being a games/console developer you are also competing with the other companies. Similarly, it is often said 'there's no competition' when talking about a competitor not really coming close to other candidates. Or you can say 'they can't compete with our prices'. Technically they're competing, but for all intents and purposes they aren't.

 

As for the handheld vs console - New Super Mario Bros features on both handheld and Wii U, as does MH3, as does/will Mario Kart, as does a (sort of) Mario 3D Land (/World). I agree that there is a difference between handheld and console, but the 3DS vs Wii U comparison is still far more relevant to completely different, understandably less popular/established franchise comparisons that Andy made. Some are even practically the same games in my comparison. It just shows that people aren't that interested in the Wii U.

 

Anyway...this is getting long, but I agree with the consortium. I would go one step further and suggest that a unified format that still supports individual peripherals like PC would be better for the consumer, but naturally that'd never happen.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sheikah

[Cookyman]

I'm not going to post any view in here - I think it's all been said already and it's like a minefield in here! -* treads carefully*

 

Satoru Iwata admitted he had misread the markets and hadn't issued "the appropriate instructions.'' He said the company needed to change and "propose something that surprises our customers."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that that his job?

 

I thinks this article and links makes me take what Iwata says with a very large pinch of salt.

 

Promises, Promises, Promises

 

Every generation, Satoru Iwata tells investors, gamers, and retailers that they will avoid major software droughts because these can kill a platform’s momentum after launch. Satoru Iwata never learns from anything. He always says he has learned from past mistakes, but his actions never show it. Instead, every single generation, all we get from him is a whole bunch of “Please understand” and “I apologize for the inconvenience”.

 

Here’s some examples.

 

Iwata says Wii will avoid major droughts that plagued GameCube. (March 2007)

 

“When we launched GameCube, the initial sales were good, and all the hardware we manufactured at that time were sold through. However, after this period, we could not provide the market with strong software titles in a timely fashion. As a result we could not leverage the initial launch time momentum, and sales of GameCube slowed down. To avoid repeating this with Wii, we have been intensifying the software development, both internally at Nintendo and at developers outside the company, in order to prepare aggressive software lineup for Wii at and after the launch.” says Iwata. He then says, ”We believe it is important to provide the market with strong software without a long interval in order to keep the launch time momentum.”

 

Source:

 

Iwata promises that 3DS will avoid major droughts that plagued Wii and DS.

 

“It’s important that you be able to supply software with no pause,” said Iwata. “With the DS and Wii, following the titles that were released at launch, the momentum dropped when there was a gap in software releases. We’re making plans so that this type of thing won’t happen.”

 

Source:

 

Iwata promises that Wii U will avoid major droughts that plagued 3DS and Wii.

 

“ As we learned a bitter lesson with the launch of the Nintendo 3DS, we are trying to take every possible measure so that the Wii U will have a successful launch.”

 

“The company was unable to launch much-anticipated first-party titles for the Wii nor for the Nintendo 3DS in a timely fashion in the first half of the term. In the game platform business, creating momentum is very important, but the momentum was once lost, and it has had a large negative effect on our sales and profits.”

 

Source:

 

Iwata apologizes for Wii U drought in January and February.

 

“I apologize to those supporting Wii U about the lack of titles in January and February.”

 

Source:

 

Thanks to the success of ”Nintendo Direct” and “Iwata Asks,” Nintendo fans have grown attached to Satoru Iwata as Nintendo’s president. It’s very difficult to dislike Iwata because the man comes off as a very charming person with a good sense of humor. Iwata has had a long history in game development before becoming a CEO, and this is why Nintendo fans and game developers tend to show Iwata a lot of respect. I’ve seen many Nintendo fans call him a genuine, good-hearted, hard working man. While most of us have never met Iwata, I would assume these are all fair things to say about him. Satoru Iwata is one of the most likable CEO’s in the video game industry.

 

And that’s part of the problem.

 

He’s so likable that gamers feel bad for criticizing any of his business decisions. Instead, gamers find it easier to criticize Reggie Fils-Aime when things go wrong. They view Reggie as some random marketing executive with little knowledge of game development, and this makes it easier for fans to blame all of Nintendo’s problems on him.

 

You can replace hundreds of Reggies at Nintendo of America, but as long as Iwata and the current management at NCL are in charge, don’t expect any real sweeping change to occur in the way Nintendo does things. Don’t get me wrong. I like Satoru Iwata. On a personal level, he seems like a nice, hard working man who really cares about Nintendo as a company and respects the art of game development.

 

But I don’t think he’s a great CEO. He’s had three great years during the Wii/DS. His remaining seven years were either mediocre (average) or poor (this is including his GameCube years).

 

Every time Iwata screws up, people will bring up his short term success between 2007 through 2009 to defend Iwata’s mediocre performance. People give him credit for turning around the 3DS after a disastrous launch. The truth is you don’t deserve credit for fixing your own mistakes. You deserve credit for avoiding mistakes.

 

 

So if Nintendo go tits up what we calling the site?

 

*runs for the hills*

[Agent Gibbs]

 

So if Nintendo go tits up what we calling the site?

 

*runs for the hills*

 

Nintendon't-Europe?

[Retro_Link]

What happened to Ghost Recon Online, that was really being driven as a big online game for Wii U during its reveal? I think it was only also coming to PC?

 

The Wii U version just got ditched did it?

[Hero-of-Time]

What happened to Ghost Recon Online, that was really being driven as a big online game for Wii U during its reveal? I think it was only also coming to PC?

 

The Wii U version just got ditched did it?

 

Yeah.

 

By all accounts the PC version was a bit pants as well, so its no big loss.

[lostmario]

Just come across this on neogaf.

 

Sorry if its old.

 

[Hero-of-Time]

I was thinking earlier, do you think Nintendo will do a proper E3 conference this year?

[Goron_3]

I was thinking earlier, do you think Nintendo will do a proper E3 conference this year?

 

They really, really need to after last year. The 'we need to do our own thing' strategy just doesn't make sense for am event like that.

[Serebii]

I was thinking earlier, do you think Nintendo will do a proper E3 conference this year?

I think Reggie said after last years that they will at the next E3, but don't quote me on it. Plans change, anyway.

 

I think it's certain that they will, though.

[Dcubed]

I was thinking earlier, do you think Nintendo will do a proper E3 conference this year?

 

That's creepy... I was just wondering the same thing the other day!

 

I'm pretty sure that even they must realise that last year was a horrendous mistake; a cowing away that still continues to haunt them today, with people still saying that they never "showed up" at E3.

 

On the other hand, Nintendo are losing cash over fist right now and a flashy show would cost them a lot of money... (And would they even be able to show anything that would resonate with the E3 watching audience anyway?)

[Serebii]

That's creepy... I was just wondering the same thing the other day!

 

I'm pretty sure that even they must realise that last year was a horrendous mistake; a cowing away that still continues to haunt them today, with people still saying that they never "showed up" at E3.

 

On the other hand, Nintendo are losing cash over fist right now and a flashy show would cost them a lot of money... (And would they even be able to show anything that would resonate with the E3 watching audience anyway?)

They're not losing that much. Their loss projected is smaller than the loss they experienced in 2011 and much, much, smaller than losses hit by MS and Sony. Hell, you can offset almost all their loss by what they added to their R&D budget, as well as their advertising (15bn yen & 8bn yen respectively, with a 25bn loss projected). They're expanding, not contracting, and their expansion is a large part of why they're at a loss, though the Wii U's failures aren't helping.

 

The difference between this year and last year is that last year, MS and Sony were showing off hardware at E3, and Nintendo wasn't, and that's the reason they gave for not having one. This year, it's going to be pure software and that is one area where Nintendo will shine above the others.

[Wii]

That's creepy... I was just wondering the same thing the other day!

 

I'm pretty sure that even they must realise that last year was a horrendous mistake; a cowing away that still continues to haunt them today, with people still saying that they never "showed up" at E3.

 

On the other hand, Nintendo are losing cash over fist right now and a flashy show would cost them a lot of money... (And would they even be able to show anything that would resonate with the E3 watching audience anyway?)

 

Yes, Zelda. A proper F'n Zelda in the style of the demo would blow the roof of the joint. A kin to TP reveal. Last years E3 was a disgrace. More evidence of what's wrong with Nintendo.

 

A new Metroid could be good, it is possible. I'm thinking 3rd person with FPS on the gamepad. Do it! Why not?

 

F-Zero. You want the core audience back? Prove it. Talk is cheap. I've heard enough BS. I want Gamecube Part Deux. Enough of the piddly $h!t like Dr. Luigi and Wii Party PeeU. Rock it!

[Serebii]

Yes, Zelda. A proper F'n Zelda in the style of the demo would blow the roof of the joint. A kin to TP reveal. Last years E3 was a disgrace. More evidence of what's wrong with Nintendo.

 

A new Metroid could be good, it is possible. I'm thinking 3rd person with FPS on the gamepad. Do it! Why not?

 

F-Zero. You want the core audience back? Prove it. Talk is cheap. I've heard enough BS. I want Gamecube Part Deux. Enough of the piddly $h!t like Dr. Luigi and Wii Party PeeU. Rock it!

Problem is, despite the fact a vocal group likes those games, they are very firmly in the minority. Even Metroid struggles to reach 2m sold. That's why Nintendo is reluctant to fund things like it, since they're high in budget and low on results.

[Wii]

Problem is, despite the fact a vocal group likes those games, they are very firmly in the minority. Even Metroid struggles to reach 2m sold. That's why Nintendo is reluctant to fund things like it, since they're high in budget and low on results.

 

You know what's wrong? Advertising. Nintendo are the stingiest, most miserly company I've ever seen. We all know Metroid is brilliant. The masses don't. Show them why it's great. They send games out to die. I didn't see a single ad for Wonderful 101, nada. That's just 1 example but it's typical of Nintendo's attitude and business practices. There are more people that like these games, they just don't know it yet.

[Serebii]

You know what's wrong? Advertising. Nintendo are the stingiest, most miserly company I've ever seen. We all know Metroid is brilliant. The masses don't. Show them why it's great. They send games out to die. I didn't see a single ad for Wonderful 101, nada. That's just 1 example but it's typical of Nintendo's attitude and business practices. There are more people that like these games, they just don't know it yet.

Very true. I was a bit surprised that Wonderful 101 wasn't heavily promoted. A new Nintendo IP, developed by one of the most beloved developers around.

 

They've funnelled an extra 8bn yen into the advertising budget though, so maybe they are finally getting ready to sort this out.

[Cube]

Or, in more realistic terms, a cheesy-looking game from a developer that's pretty much unknown to non-hardcore gamers (outside Japan, at least). I can see why they wouldn't put a lot of effort marketing it over here.

[Wii]

Or, in more realistic terms, a cheesy-looking game from a developer that's pretty much unknown to non-hardcore gamers (outside Japan, at least). I can see why they wouldn't put a lot of effort marketing it over here.

 

I often wonder why bother make it if you have no intention of advertising it? What must PG be thinking with Bayonetta 2? I know they'll get paid but it must be disheartening for them. I bet some are thinking this game will flop and aren't as motivated to make this game all it could be.

[liger05]

They really, really need to after last year. The 'we need to do our own thing' strategy just doesn't make sense for am event like that.

 

I dont know if they will. I still think the decision last year had a lot to do with having very little to show. Sony and MS again are going to go into overdrive with PS4/XB1 content. What will Nintendo have?

 

Unless they are revealing the next handheld I'm not sure Nintendo have enough in the locker right now to do a full blown E3 show.

 

Yes, Zelda. A proper F'n Zelda in the style of the demo would blow the roof of the joint. A kin to TP reveal. Last years E3 was a disgrace. More evidence of what's wrong with Nintendo.

 

I would love to see them show Zelda but I hope this game is now put on the backburner and not released for Wii U. Make it a launch title for a new console.

 

They're not losing that much. Their loss projected is smaller than the loss they experienced in 2011 and much, much, smaller than losses hit by MS and Sony. Hell, you can offset almost all their loss by what they added to their R&D budget, as well as their advertising (15bn yen & 8bn yen respectively, with a 25bn loss projected). They're expanding, not contracting, and their expansion is a large part of why they're at a loss, though the Wii U's failures aren't helping.

 

What about the stock price. Shares plummeting is scary and investors do not want to see that.

 

The difference between this year and last year is that last year, MS and Sony were showing off hardware at E3, and Nintendo wasn't, and that's the reason they gave for not having one. This year, it's going to be pure software and that is one area where Nintendo will shine above the others.

 

Really? The console is dying a slow death. I dont see how Nintendo will have the software to show which resonates with those who atend and watch E3.

 

I often wonder why bother make it if you have no intention of advertising it? What must PG be thinking with Bayonetta 2? I know they'll get paid but it must be disheartening for them. I bet some are thinking this game will flop and aren't as motivated to make this game all it could be.

 

Lets not forget Bayonetta 1 was multi platform as well as critically aclaimed and still bombed. They could market the game all they want but will it make it anymore appealing to the people who were not interested in Bayonetta 1?

 

Or, in more realistic terms, a cheesy-looking game from a developer that's pretty much unknown to non-hardcore gamers (outside Japan, at least). I can see why they wouldn't put a lot of effort marketing it over here.

 

Agree with this.

Edited January 20, 2014 by liger05

[Serebii]

What about the stock price. Shares plummeting is scary and investors do not want to see that.

 

Well obviously not, but people need to stop comparing stock prices to success. More often than not, when a company announces something new, the stock price drops. Hell, they tend to drop when investors get nervous. Stocks are irrelevant to us and irrelevant to this entire discussion.

 

 

Really? The console is dying a slow death. I dont see how Nintendo will have the software to show which resonates with those who atend and watch E3.

Sounds more to me like lack of imagination on your part.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Serebii

[liger05]

Well obviously not, but people need to stop comparing stock prices to success. More often than not, when a company announces something new, the stock price drops. Stocks are irrelevant to us and irrelevant to this entire discussion

 

Who's comparing it to success. I'm just making the point that investors will look at stocks want answers on why any such stock is on a downward spiral. Thats the case with any public listed company.

 

Sounds more to me like lack of imagination on your part.

 

Not at all. I just dont think Nintendo will be sinking more and more money into the Wii U. I see after 2014 very little games being released on the Wii U similar to what happened with the Wii in it's latter years.

[Pestneb]

Not at all. I just dont think Nintendo will be sinking more and more money into the Wii U. I see after 2014 very little games being released on the Wii U similar to what happened with the Wii in it's latter years.

 

Your Zelda comment was misplaced though. They may push it to the next console. I don't think we will see Zelda at this E3 either, so soon after WW (even if it is a remake).

However I do expect a Wii U specific Zelda. Is there a single Nintendo console that didn't get it's very own Zelda?

 

The Wii's final 2 years were bizarre, but possibly a result of Nintendo working hard on HD content for the Wii U?

I would expect the Wii U to follow the GC more than the Wii, seeing as sales are closer. I would be very surprised (and in all honesty a little dissapointed ) if the Wii U sales numbers exceed 60M.