Grazza Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Hasn't there been enough cartoon? We're getting Wind Waker HD, we've had Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Weren't some if not all of these partly due to hardware limitations? It's time to shine and use the hardware to it's full potential. Well, the DS wasn't even very good at doing the Wind Waker style, in my opinion. Something to keep in mind is that Wind Waker HD runs in 1080p, apparently at 60fps. Whilst this is great, it's likely Zelda Wii U will trade that for 720p and 30fps, so I still think it could use more complex lighting and graphics than the GC remake. Has there been enough cartoon? Difficult to say, but when you see how sophisticated the cel-shaded cutscenes were in Fire Emblem: Awakening, being cartoony doesn't mean it will have the same colours or character models as Wind Waker (as much as I like them). I'm sure they could make a really good cartoony Zelda with Adult Link. With technology improving all the time, it'd be a shame if we've already seen the best visual style for Zelda. But do you know what, Wii? I'm going to basically agree with you in that it might be a good idea to keep the styles on different machines. For example: eShop - Link to the Past graphics (the true 2D SNES style) Handhelds - Wind Waker style, fully 3D Consoles - Twilight Princess style Handhelds have become so good, I'd actually be a bit more disappointed to not have a WW style game on 3DS than I would if there wasn't one on Wii U.
Retro_Link Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Hasn't there been enough cartoon? We're getting Wind Waker HD, we've had Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. Weren't some if not all of these partly due to hardware limitations? It's time to shine and use the hardware to it's full potential.Well we've only had one Zelda game like it on the home console... compared to quite a few more serious Zelda games. I admit I'd love to see it! I can't help feel it would feel fresher. Where as a Tech Demo style Zelda would feel like Twilight Princess HD and continue the slightly repetitive pattern of Nintendo's game development of late... Roll out a 2D Mario, Roll out a Mario World, Roll out an Adult Zelda for the hardcore. One side of me loves the idea of a Skyrim style overworld. But could that maybe be done in a Wind Waker cartoon style maybe?... or would that feel like a missed opportunity? Although having said that I feel sticking the cartoon/animated Zelda's on the handheld would also be missing an opportunity for something very very special!
Grazza Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 I can't help feel it would feel fresher.Where as a Tech Demo style Zelda would feel like Twilight Princess HD and continue the slightly repetitive pattern of Nintendo's game development of late... Roll out a 2D Mario, Roll out a Mario World, Roll out an Adult Zelda for the hardcore. Maybe I'm being cynical, but I honestly can't imagine them making one as complex as TP nowadays. I'm not being revisionist about TP - it doesn't have all the features of Wind Waker - but it still had that basic idea that you used a traditional pad (initially, anyway) and explored a 3D world. It's like they're happy to retain that kind of complexity if it's a remake, but not for a new game. I suppose the real (and boring!) answer is that they should make Zelda Wii U in the style they have a vision for. When I first saw Wind Waker (the website actually), I was blown away by the idea they had for a game set at sea, with the important locations being islands. It was so different from what I knew as Zelda from the N64 era, I couldn't help but be intrigued. Of course, it actually plays in a fairly similar way to OOT, but that's its beauty!
Ronnie Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 A Wind Waker style game would be amazing, as would a more realistic style like in the tech demo. I don't really mind which art style they go for (I think fans place way too much emphasis on that) and I definitely don't care about the control scheme. I just want them to get the series back on form. Critical to that IMO is the sense of exploration and wonder that's been missing for the last few installments. I'd like to see them take a few risks, stop playing so f-ing safe all the time, shake the formula up and bring the magic back, which has been lost since the last scene of Wind Waker. The art style is just the polish on top of all that.
Wii Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 You'd imagine after the Spaceworld reveal of Zelda and then when Wind Waker was shown do they really want and would they set themselves up for the same crazy reaction and backlash? Showing that realistic Zelda tech demo and then going elsewhere I'm sure they learned not to repeat that but then this is Nintendo
Andyliini Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 That article also seems to confirm that Grezzo is not developing Wind Waker HD. I wonder what are they doing...
Blade Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 A Wind Waker style game would be amazing, as would a more realistic style like in the tech demo. I don't really mind which art style they go for (I think fans place way too much emphasis on that) and I definitely don't care about the control scheme. I just want them to get the series back on form. Critical to that IMO is the sense of exploration and wonder that's been missing for the last few installments. I'd like to see them take a few risks, stop playing so f-ing safe all the time, shake the formula up and bring the magic back, which has been lost since the last scene of Wind Waker. The art style is just the polish on top of all that. Shake the formula? Stop playing safe? Isnt that what they tried to do with Skyward Sword? I personally loved it.
Andyliini Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Shake the formula? Stop playing safe? Isnt that what they tried to do with Skyward Sword? I personally loved it. Me too. And they didn't play safe with Phantom Hourglass ans Spirit Tracks, either. And what was the reaction? Boo-hoo, this ain't Zelda, gimme Wind Wanker or Dark Princess, yolo. Needless to say, people just don't know what they want.
Rummy Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Twilight Princess was a good game, but imo a terrible Zelda. It was huge, but empty. It lacked enough of the character and charm that is to be expected. However I liked the style, the items, the combat; I liked a lot but it didn't feel Zelda enough. I'm with Wii on this that I'd like to see something in a TP/HD style for the Wii U. Something like TP, with new items, new characters, but still managing to capture the Zelda charm of places like market town, clock town, kakariko, kokiri forest, death mountain etc. Wouldn't mind seeing the spinner and ball and chain back, but with much more usage too.
Agent Gibbs Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 One side of me loves the idea of a Skyrim style overworld. But could that maybe be done in a Wind Waker cartoon style maybe?... or would that feel like a missed opportunity? :o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
Ronnie Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Shake the formula? Stop playing safe? Isnt that what they tried to do with Skyward Sword? I personally loved it. What risks did Skyward Sword take? Motion controls don't count, I'm talking about the game itself. I loved Skyward Sword too, but it was very safe and predictable. The charmless, empty sky was poor and the hub/level select was a huge slap in the face.
Cube Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 The "Wind Waker" style looked ugly on the DS and the 3DS isn't good enough. The "Twilight Princess" style was immensely dull. The power of a console can be shown off with "cartoon" graphics.
Retro_Link Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Completely agree @Cube, the Wind Waker style hasn't been done well since the Wind Waker, Link looks SO bad in the DS games :p A Wind Waker sequel on the Home Consoles could far surpass anything the like of Ni No Kuni achieved, it's that good an art style! I'd just love to see it happen tbh! Heck Ocarina of Time 3D looked lovely, develop a game for the 3DS using that engine!
Wii Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Aonuma Reveals Why Zelda Titles Aren’t Released As Frequently As Mario*Games Two of Nintendo’s flagship franchises The Legend of Zelda and Super Mario have been around for over 25 years. Although both series were born in the 1980s and have seen releases on all of Nintendo’s major consoles, Super Mario trumps The Legend of Zelda in terms of the number of titles developed. The reason for this is, according to The Legend of Zelda series producer Eiji Aounuma, Zelda games require a longer development time. Plus, while the Super Mario series has two producers – Takashi Tezuka and Yoshiaki Koizumi – Aonuma*is The Legend of Zelda’s sole producer. We see Nintendo franchises come and go. Some aren’t updated for long periods of time. Zelda is not one of those. And yet Zelda, it’s not as if it’s a 5, 6, 7 million seller like a New Super Mario Bros.. It’s not one of the huge franchises. So what does Zelda mean to Nintendo? What is the importance of Zelda in the Nintendo world? Aonuma: You said that Nintendo releases Zelda games regularly. We do release them regularly, but we don’t release them that often. Mario games, if you push to get it done, you can finish it in a year. Zelda games take at least three years to complete. At the same time, I’m getting pushed to release them quicker but the users are expecting bigger experiences. And those things don’t match up. So I struggle with that all the time. I have no idea what I’m supposed to do to meet both of those demands. With the Mario series, there are two producers, Mr. Tezuka and Mr. Koizumi. With Zelda, it’s just me. http://mynintendonews.com/2013/07/04/aonuma-reveals-why-zelda-titles-arent-released-as-frequently-as-mario-games/ Those saying they enjoyed Skyward Sword well I didn't. I consider it the worst Zelda ever. It was painfully bad.
Ronnie Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 At the same time, I’m getting pushed to release them quicker but the users are expecting bigger experiences. And those things don’t match up. So I struggle with that all the time. I have no idea what I’m supposed to do to meet both of those demands. That's a little worrying.
Ville Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Just pump out some New Legend of Zelda (Brothers), and you'll be fine Nintendo.
Agent Gibbs Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 if he took 5 years at a time and pumped out a skyrim scale adventure each time (aka the bethsada business model) i think most people would be very happy, no matter what art style -Realistic like Skyrim or Cel shaded like Borderlands (both have the same sort of scale)
Retro_Link Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 if he took 5 years at a time and pumped out a skyrim scale adventure each time (aka the bethsada business model) i think most people would be very happy, no matter what art style -Realistic like Skyrim or Cel shaded like Borderlands (both have the same sort of scale)Exactly! It's Nintendo who feel they have to keep pumping out Mario and Zelda's! I'm sure the majority of fans would rather wait and get an epic one, and fill in the gap with other franchises. But Nintendo are putting themselves in this situation. "We're bringing you Mario, we're bringing you Zelda"... is all Reggie seems to say at times!... Well you know what Reggie... you can keep them every so often.
Agent Gibbs Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Exactly! It's Nintendo who feel they have to keep pumping out Mario and Zelda's! I'm sure the majority of fans would rather wait and get an epic one, and fill in the gap with other franchises. But Nintendo are putting themselves in this situation. "We're bringing you Mario, we're bringing you Zelda"... is all Reggie seems to say at times!... Well you know what Reggie... you can keep them every so often. if they want a stop gap to console zeldas let a separate team produce a handheld game in the interim to tide over fans, it could even be a remake i.e release this new zelda in 2014 then take 5 years developing another in the series for 2019 and in the 5 year period if they need a game release Majora's mask 3DS, or Link's awakening redone in the A link between worlds style. That right there would be a reasonable plan that would/could see epic zelda's released, and help to allow some revitalization of the franchise, so it doesn't end up with a similar feel that Mario has gotten.
Cube Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Just pump out some New Legend of Zelda (Brothers), and you'll be fine Nintendo. Perhaps throw out a semi-3D Four Swords Adventures similar in style to Super Mario 3D World. (With online and voice chat)
Ville Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) (With online and voice chat) Make that local multiplayer, even better. Anyway, hold your horses guys. Skyrim had over 700 people working on it, so a game of that scale is just not gonna happen. Also, Nintendo is clearly treading a more conservative path what comes to development budgets, which has been pretty evident from the Wii onwards. Even if the system has the horsepower for it, there's no guarantee Nintendo are gonna push the visuals to the max, especially when they're still trying to figure out all this HD stuff. Thus I expect something that looks like a cross between SS and OoT; in HD of course, but still relatively simplistic in design. Personally, I really don't care if the style is realistic or not, but I'd like it to be genuinely artistic with lots of details. For example, look at Banjo Nuts & Bolts (2008): Cartoony, yet very detailed and looks awesome. Something like this would be great, although I'm really not counting on that to be honest. Edited July 4, 2013 by Ville
nekunando Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Banjo Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts looks extremely unappealing to me That screenshot, in particular, just looks a mess
Grazza Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Agree with nando about Nuts & Bolts. Total respect to the talented artists, but it looks too "harsh" to me. I just think Nintendo should have faith in cel-shading. It looked so good in the latest Fire Emblem: Nintendo was on the right track with Wind Waker. I'm not saying every game should look like that from now on, but they could at least try to retain the fluidity. Cartoony doesn't mean kiddie. Whilst I respect that Skyward Sword might have been intended to be a middle ground, it seemed more like a diversion to me - similar to Twilight Princess, but in pastels, and not very cartoony. I can really imagine a cel-shaded Zelda featuring Adult Link, with (somewhat) subtle colours and sophisticated lighting.
Beverage Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Too human. Confused creatures. That be why they're fickle. Nintendo, who I once thought were Gods, are also fickle human creatures. How on earth are you going to try to meet the demands of many different audiences - who all are fickle? Oh dear. Now I know why their games are an unsteady mess of brain-stormed ideas. Calculating types truly have their hurdles that they need to figure out how to leap over. As a God, you simply create. Your grand creation will, I repeat - WILL - be worshipped. @Ronnie your posts anger me the most. Similarly to how God created this magnificent existence, the gorgeous and powerful surroundings has encouraged, motivated, inspired so many possibilities and ideas and randomness. That being preached, I honestly think that one of ZELDA's charm is that it can be presented in different lights, be that toon/cel-shaded, sketchy/realistic/mangaish, manga/realistic/, or any other style like mixing those aforementioned styles, or going with something new like those animation movie styles like Incredibles, Despicable Me or Brave (just to name a few). It is a game where art can genuinely be played around with. However, another important aspect within art is gameplay. Story. Content. Etc etc etc. Each idea that's created and given the green light, refine the shit out of it. Swordplay. Seal enemies using magic. Variety of sealing levels. Summoning a troop or beasts or even transportation using magic. Activate defensive spells using magic. perhaps cast spells. All from sword gestures! Battle. Skyward Sword was onto something but expand of it. Loads of different enemy types with different weapons and perhaps magical abilities. They each have unique attack rhythms/routines for you to memorise - or be quick-witted against - like a madter swordsman. And with the powerful graphics, a.i is super intelligent and can learn and defend against your series of attacks. If your offensive flow is too simplistic, uncreative and just... unpuzzley, then chances are you'd be countered, parried or interrupted in mid-combo and have your pants sliced off. This is just swordplay alone and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Bring genius puzzles and riddles and symbolic/metaphors into play and refine ideas. Convincing surroundings. Excellent story telling with voice acting throughout. Side stories. Boss battles and boss models. Soooo much. Random elements of the game. Miiverse implementation. Accurate and responsive controls. Enemy abilities to make the game challenging. Item purposes. Rupee purpose. Etc etc etc. Perhaps public events like in Destiny? Just a possibility to conside. Nintendo. Just make. Another game that I now am not psyched for. Do you know what? F the u. F it.
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