The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Wii U / Switch

[Ronnie]

39 minutes ago, Grazza said:

Breath of the Wild impressed me more, and it did finally have a fluid, linked-up overworld.  However, it does lose that sense of plot progression as you move through a landscape.  It is also a case of Nintendo being overly influenced by a popular genre - open world - rather than setting the agenda themselves.  Breath of the Wild isn't just big - it has all the trappings of the open world genre, such as cooking, hundreds of (minor) sidequests etc, so much so that it lost the thrill of getting a significant, permanent item halfway through a dungeon such as a Mirror Shield or Flame-resistant tunic.  If the game doesn't know you are going to take a certain route (ie. eight dungeons), it can't structure anything very interesting or worthwhile.

We've had 16 Zelda games structured that way, so I think it's ok for this game to try a different approach and give us a fresh experience. Do I want every Zelda game from now on to be structured like BOTW, no, but I was absolutely able to appreciate it for its own merits, what it does, rather than what it doesn't do. I'd certainly like a return to more structured story elements and key quest items at some point, maybe the next game, but I fell in love with what Nintendo gave us here. It wasn't just any openworld game, it was much more than that.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Ronnie

[Shorty]

1 hour ago, Grazza said:

That's a good point.  They can't really do a grander Hyrule, so are going to have to think alternatively for a bit.

Really?? I loved BotW and Hyrule is immense and brilliant. But... it's also hugely empty and devoid of life in a hundred locations. In part this is by design, the centre of the map has been ruined by Ganon and its inhabitants scattered. This could be, in fiction, rebuilt to a bustling and habitable world. But in part it's presumably due to time limitations, there are long valleys and mountain climbs and waterfalls that seem that they're leading you somewhere but then just... end at a Lynel fight, or a Korok, or sometimes just nothingness.

To me right from the moment I'd found the last town in Hyrule, I thought this location was dying to be revisited and revamped to reach it's full potential. The story has primed it, and from a technical perspective it's the perfect canvas to begin perfecting. I loved slogging through the forest and over mountains and making my way up to Zora's domain, however most of these key locations feel densely packed but sparsely positioned.

Of course that's not to say you couldn't also at the very least take the engine and array of templates and create a new world and still come back sufficiently bigger and better. But... this is just where my head's been since I played it.

(Back to Termina tho, now that's an idea I can get behind )

[Glen-i]

37 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Back to Termina it is!

I mean, doesn't Termina literally not exist any more?

Wasn't it all in Link's mind in the end?

[Ronnie]

20 minutes ago, Shorty said:

there are long valleys and mountain climbs and waterfalls that seem that they're leading you somewhere but then just... end at a Lynel fight, or a Korok, or sometimes just nothingness.

or Kass, a town or a shrine? I think most climbs or waterfalls lead you to one of the above and if they don't, well, the wilderness isn't supposed to have something cool every thirty steps

I was fine with how densely populated the world was. I think it made the moments when you did run into something all the more fun and interesting.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Ronnie

[Hero-of-Time]

6 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

I mean, doesn't Termina literally not exist any more?

Wasn't it all in Link's mind in the end?

Originally it was classed as a parallel world to Hyrule (in the instruction manual) but the Hyrule Encyclopedia said it was nothing more than a figment of the Skull Kid's imagination. Given how Nintendo haven't a clue about their own Zelda timeline, Termina can exist if Nintendo want it to exist.   Personally, I would love for it to make a return. It was a pretty small world to explore in and they could really flesh it out now if they choose to revisit it.

[Kav]

For the next Zelda I’d love for them to use the same engine/overworld as BotW (as it would give a quick turn-around in getting it out) but to have a completely new threat to the series - an invasion from a foreign land, for example.

There should be a more densely packed enemy presence within the world. Enemy encampments could serve as the shrines & mini-dungeons, as well as  having enemy “fortresses” that would serve as classic dungeons.

New runes to be found for the Sheikah Slate, new weapons (that don’t break as easily) magic added once more (Dins Fire, Farore’s Wind, Nayru’s Love & more)... and I’d love to see Loftwings as an added method of travel in this Hyrule - with air battles too!

Edited November 6, 2018 by Kav

[Shorty]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

 the wilderness isn't supposed to have something cool every thirty steps

Of course not (the condescending tone wasn't necessary...) but there are repeatedly areas that seem that they were designed to lead somewhere, you find a path, it goes over a hill, leads to a climb, you run over to some trees, you fight some enemies and think you're about to find a puzzle, NPC, or even a settlement but instead you're greeted with a wall or something, so you climb the nearest mountain or turn around and carry on. It's fine because it doesn't break the flow of exploration, but it would've been even more exciting to me if just a little more frequently you bumped into a little bit of variety beyond the quickly established checklist of encounters.

[Grazza]

2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

We've had 16 Zelda games structured that way, so I think it's ok for this game to try a different approach and give us a fresh experience. Do I want every Zelda game from now on to be structured like BOTW, no, but I was absolutely able to appreciate it for its own merits, what it does, rather than what it doesn't do.

 

But really, what's the point in that if we know it's not the formula for a perfect Zelda?  They take a long time to make, and generations go by without Nintendo achieving as good a result as they did on the N64 and GameCube.  Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker - arguably their two best - were a result of evolving the formula of the previous game, and very few people consider those three (LttP, OOT, WW) too similar to each other.

 

1 hour ago, Shorty said:

To me right from the moment I'd found the last town in Hyrule, I thought this location was dying to be revisited and revamped to reach it's full potential. The story has primed it, and from a technical perspective it's the perfect canvas to begin perfecting. I loved slogging through the forest and over mountains and making my way up to Zora's domain, however most of these key locations feel densely packed but sparsely positioned.

 

Yes, that's a good point.  Hyrule could be better, but perhaps not on a grander scale.  I would prefer the whole thing to be more intentionally designed, rather than have these densely-packed towns which, again, are similar to those in an open world RPG.  I can't get away from the idea of key features - ie. dungeons - being important to the landscape, such as Goron Mines being accessible from their city, or Catfish's Maw rising up out of Lake Hylia.  It's important to have space inbetween, of course, but I do think having slightly less of it would focus the design.

[Ronnie]

8 minutes ago, Grazza said:

But really, what's the point in that if we know it's not the formula for a perfect Zelda?  They take a long time to make, and generations go by without Nintendo achieving as good a result as they did on the N64 and GameCube.  Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker - arguably their two best - were a result of evolving the formula of the previous game, and very few people consider those three (LttP, OOT, WW) too similar to each other.

"What's the point in that" ... probably to win a truckload of awards, critical acclaim by the majority, commercial success and sell a ton of consoles. 

"If we know it's not the formula for a perfect Zelda" ? I know that Breath of the Wild is one of my favourite Zelda games ever. No game is perfect. After 16 games I think it's about time they mix up the formula. 

There's never going to be a perfect Zelda. The games are so subjective everyone has a different idea what makes a good one. @Kav above wanted the same overworld but for them to prioritise combat. I take the opposite approach, give me a new land to explore and combat far down the priority list. Everyone wants different things so they're never going to make the "perfect" game. 

The series was definitely getting stale. You could see it in all the reviews for Skyward Sword. You can only iterate so often before it loses that magic. 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by Ronnie

[Pestneb]

I was playing MK8 yesterday, and looking at the zelda circuit, it made me want to see Hyrule prior to calamity Ganon.
But yeah, already watching my wife play, and sinking myself into the post game now, I have to admit I probably will end up only having enjoyed half the game. Going deeper into the combat, exploring, npcs and settlements, shrines, koroks, cooking, maybe weapon.armour/shield mods etc... it's work that WILL be appreciated, but increasingly by fewer people... so they get diminishing returns from the time investment. I think while I want more from the game, I have to appreciate that Nintendo need to moderate breadth and depth with a knowledge of how these things will actually be appreciated and by what % of the game's audience.

 

One thing that irritates me (a tiny amount), is how you can't use yellow heart recipe's once you have 30 health (unless I have missed something) there is a cap at 30 hearts... whereas with stamina you can still get additional yellow stamina wheels sure 30 hearts is plenty... but... yeah

[Ramar]

I finally picked up this game from CEX after trading in some PS4 games. I’m only at the beginning area and I’m really enjoying it. The controls are a bit annoying but I can cope with that. The art style and game play style appeal to me. Can’t wait to get further into it.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

With regards to Hyrule feeling empty...I personally loved it. I formed some sort of connection playing alone, while Link traverses the landscape alone. This is major reason why to me BOTW has a tranquil, near spiritual affect on me and why I'm so eager to replay through it. 

If I couldn't climb, paraglide early, fast travel, find many different items etc. Then I would feel it to be big for no real reason. But the wildlife, fauna etc and finding rare items made it feel worthwhile....while experiencing beautiful moments like having a dragon appear and that enchanting theme play.

Wind Waker Hyrule is a perfect example of being large for no reason and Termina is the perfect size when there is nothing to do in the overworld.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Falcon_Black

[Fused King]

On 16/08/2018 at 11:50 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

Originally it was classed as a parallel world to Hyrule (in the instruction manual) but the Hyrule Encyclopedia said it was nothing more than a figment of the Skull Kid's imagination. Given how Nintendo haven't a clue about their own Zelda timeline, Termina can exist if Nintendo want it to exist.   Personally, I would love for it to make a return. It was a pretty small world to explore in and they could really flesh it out now if they choose to revisit it.

Wow, I totally forgot that that is what's 'official'. So with that idea in mind, did Link just partake in Skull Kid's delusions of grandeur? How is that even supposed to work, hahaha. They can easily retcon that nonsense in some way and have Termina come back in some form. It may be unlikely, but I'm guessing Aonuma is aware of its cult status and he seems to have a thing for trying to outdo himself with every Zelda game.

2 hours ago, Falcon_Black said:

With regards to Hyrule feeling empty...I personally loved it. I formed some sort of connection playing alone, while Link traverses the landscape alone. This is major reason why to me BOTW has a tranquil, near spiritual affect on me and why I'm so eager to replay through it. 

If I couldn't climb, paraglide early, fast travel, find many different items etc. Then I would feel it to be big for no real reason. But the wildlife, fauna etc and finding rare items made it feel worthwhile....while experiencing beautiful moments like having a dragon appear and that enchanting theme play.

Wind Waker Hyrule is a perfect example of being large for no reason and Termina is the perfect size when there is nothing to do in the overworld.

Funny that you should say that, because the Great Sea had the same spiritual affect on me as the vast landscapes of BotW has on you. Mind you, I also feel this way about BotW. Letting your horse run along the various roads automatically whilst you sit back and enjoy the changing scenery is magical. It's very different from the Great Sea obviously, but the background music and the changes in colours throughout the hours makes sailing with the King of Red Lions a magical experience for me that hasn't been topped yet.

 

I think that if they wanted to make another ambitious Zelda game exclusively for the Switch they'd surely reuse assets from Breath of the Wild, but there is also the possibility that Aonuma might want to try his hand at some form of Multiplayer/Co-op experience given the Switch's 'Play with anyone, anywhere' hook. I remember him wanting to rethink conventions of Zelda games such as linearity and solo-play. One could say he has achieved both already with BotW and Triforce Heroes though.

Who knows, the next Zelda game might be one of the swan songs for the 3DS, but I wouldn't mind a li'l sum'n sum'n like a co-op 4-swords adventure style Zelda that you can play with two joy cons.

I'm just so hard for this series. SO HARD! Like a Goron overlooking the Death Mountain with its delicious ores.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Fused King

[Sméagol]

17 minutes ago, Fused King said:

I'm just so hard for this series. SO HARD! Like a Goron overlooking the Death Mountain with its delicious ores.

Yeah Gorons are pretty hard.

[Glen-i]

39 minutes ago, Fused King said:

I'm just so hard for this series. SO HARD! Like a Goron overlooking the Death Mountain with its delicious ores.

 

21 minutes ago, Sméagol said:

Yeah Gorons are pretty hard.

[Ronnie]

I really hope we don't see another multiplayer Zelda game any time soon. Tri Force Heroes and the Four Swords games just aren't what I play a Zelda game for. 

Nintendo aren't exactly short of multiplayer games on Switch. Kart, Smash, Splatoon, Arms, Tennis, Pokken etc.

[Glen-i]

17 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I really hope we don't see another multiplayer Zelda game any time soon. Tri Force Heroes and the Four Swords games just aren't what I play a Zelda game for. 

Nintendo aren't exactly short of multiplayer games on Switch. Kart, Smash, Splatoon, Arms, Tennis, Pokken etc.

I could really go for another Four Swords. If you could get the expensive setup going, Four Swords Adventures was an experience unlike any other.

[Blade]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

I really hope we don't see another multiplayer Zelda game any time soon. Tri Force Heroes and the Four Swords games just aren't what I play a Zelda game for. 

Nintendo aren't exactly short of multiplayer games on Switch. Kart, Smash, Splatoon, Arms, Tennis, Pokken etc.

I feel exactly the same. I couldn't careless about multiplayer Zelda.

I want them to reuse the BOTW assets and get a new game out sooner rather than later

[Hero-of-Time]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

I could really go for another Four Swords. If you could get the expensive setup going, Four Swords Adventures was an experience unlike any other.

Agreed. I had many a great gaming night with Four Swords and Crystal Chronicles. The laughing fits and arguments that happened were very special indeed. Fight always broke out when playing CC in regards to who was gonna carry the little pot.  

It's absolutely baffling that both of these have yet to appear on the Switch. Given the set up of the hybrid it really is the perfect fit. Add in the ability to play online and you've got a winner

[Fused King]

So after having wrapped up the Desert region and explored the Gerudo Highlands, freed the Divine Beast with the help of mah sand blubber we are now left with only the Rito tribe and their Divine Beast running amok. 

We'll be tying up some loose ends here and there, doing some quests and getting materials for upgrades primarily, as well as filling in one more square South-East of the map which we have neglected for far too long (Mind you, the Rito area still has three unmapped areas).

The Gerudo Desert was a more interesting area than I imagined, both quest and music wise, and both Gerudo Town and the Oasis feel very connected. The towns have thus far still not hit those highs as seen in for example Windfall Island, but they are still enjoyable. Gerudo Town definitely comes closest to feeling a bit like Termina or Windfall.

We went looking for the statue of the Eighth Hero in the Gerudo Highlands, but man o man did that stop the game dead in its tracks, haha. Treasure upon treasure with weapons we already found, but after putting the game down and getting back to it it really felt like we were exploring a mysterious mountain.

I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of variety in terms of dungeons and boss-like enemies. Sure you get your mid-boss like enemies in the wild now, but previous Zelda games always had great dungeons with fitting enemies and bosses which made each of them feel unique and gave you a different experience. Here the dungeons are just based on Sheikah technology...The more I think about it the more I feel I am not a fan of that. They basically split dungeon rooms of what could have been a bigger dungeon with a specific theme and made them into the self-contained Sheikah shrines. It's part of the story, so that's all cool, but I'm more of a fan of thematic dungeons like the Ancient Cistern or Snowpeak Mansion in Twi-Pri.

Also, and you guys can spoil me on this one, are there any re-deads in the game? I've been waiting and waiting for some spooky ass dark area where the Gibdo's hide and the Re-Deads eyes light up when you look at them before they shriek loudly and feast on your head. Where's my hand in the toilet seat!?!? Where's my horror!

[Glen-i]

@Fused King Nope. Not even anything remotely creepy.

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Fused King said:

I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of variety in terms of dungeons and boss-like enemies. Sure you get your mid-boss like enemies in the wild now, but previous Zelda games always had great dungeons with fitting enemies and bosses which made each of them feel unique and gave you a different experience. Here the dungeons are just based on Sheikah technology...The more I think about it the more I feel I am not a fan of that. They basically split dungeon rooms of what could have been a bigger dungeon with a specific theme and made them into the self-contained Sheikah shrines. It's part of the story, so that's all cool, but I'm more of a fan of thematic dungeons like the Ancient Cistern or Snowpeak Mansion in Twi-Pri.

I suspect that the shrines are just a byproduct of the giant open world. They needed puzzle areas and so filled it with 120 shrines. Personally I loved stumbling on a shrine, it made for a nice change of pace from the traversal and combat. That said they really needed to vary the design of them more. Having them all look the same was a definite downer, and it could have been great if they were themed by the area they were in, (aesthetically at least, the puzzles were themed by location on the map)

Oh and no horror as such but there's a couple of eerie/spooky areas. Also running into a guardian when you're ill equipped is pretty scary. It's weird though, Mario Odyssey didn't have any boos or haunted mansions either. Like Nintendo just abandoned the scares for this gen. ... and then had Luigi killed, Mario squeezed to death and Mega Man impaled that is. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Ronnie

[Dufniall]

The only slighty eerie area for me was the Shrouded Shrine, and that was not scary but just had a nice atmosphere.

[Sméagol]

edit:

For the people who haven't been there yet, I edited this post as to not spoil it.

You want scary, go to Mekar Island at night.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Sméagol

[Fused King]

On 8/29/2018 at 8:12 PM, Glen-i said:

@Fused King Nope. Not even anything remotely creepy.

An unwelcome change.

On 8/30/2018 at 3:22 AM, Vileplume2000 said:

The only slighty eerie area for me was the Shrouded Shrine, and that was not scary but just had a nice atmosphere.

I agree, it was pretty a pretty mysterious place, and playing around with fire equipment made it pretty cool!

On 8/30/2018 at 4:22 AM, Sméagol said:

edit:

For the people who haven't been there yet, I edited this post as to not spoil it.

You want scary, go to Mekar Island at night.

I haven't located this island yet even though I believe I have the entire coastal line mapped out. But if it's in the North West then it's still waiting for me.

 

As we are nearing the 200 hour mark we have finally mapped out 3/4 of the map and now only have the North West to liberate. We went to the castle just for fun now that we have the necessary equipment boosting our confidence in taking down guardians fairly easily, but of course once you enter the castle it feels like you're entering the final stretch of the game so we opted out of that one. Still, there are some quests which have you retrieve royal recipes and weapons so in order to complete them surely we must head in there and come out alive, no?

Edited September 5, 2018 by Fused King