Happenstance Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Its definitely a bad excuse. Got to admit though, its just not something I've ever really cared about and kind of continue not to.
Glen-i Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 Fixed for you See, I'd laugh a bit if I wasn't losing my sides at that response Sony PR gave. When your stance on an online feature is more Nintendo than Nintendo themselves, you know you messed up!
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 If the industry is moving towards cross-network play, then Sony should move towards that. On the other hand, surely this will just lead to Sony and Microsoft aiming to secure more multiplayer exclusive content. If it doesn't matter which platform you buy a game on because you can play with users of all platforms, doesn't that negate Sony's own install base? They have to make an advantage somehow otherwise what's the point in buying the game on their system, why not go for a Xbox One version of the game?
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 This is the sort of nonsense that, although let's be honest it doesn't really matter that much...could just snowball and turn into needless bad PR because it's something for gamers to rally around, like 1080p/60fps being indicative of a quality game.
Happenstance Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 This is the sort of nonsense that, although let's be honest it doesn't really matter that much...could just snowball and turn into needless bad PR because it's something for gamers to rally around, like 1080p/60fps being indicative of a quality game. I don't think it'll go much further than forum complaints. Sony have had this stance for a while now.
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 See, I'd laugh a bit if I wasn't losing my sides at that response Sony PR gave. When your stance on an online feature is more Nintendo than Nintendo themselves, you know you messed up! Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. This is currently not a standard feature. It is neither an industry standard nor industry expectation for games to be cross-platform. Is the current FIFA cross-play? Was the last one? Is Star Wars Battlefront 2 going to be cross-play? Was Battlefield 1? Playing across PC-Xbox makes sense due the Microsoft connection to both. But, it is not an industry standard. That is not to say that it won't be an industry standard in the future. I'll reiterate my point again: if the industry is moving towards cross-platform play, then Sony should allow it. If there are legitimate reasons why not to, then are there solutions to those reasons? For example, how exactly do you regulate that experience? If a bunch of PS4 users are disconnecting on Overwatch whilst playing against Xbox One users, then how does this get sorted out? If there is verbal abuse, who takes ownership over the problem? If these are questions that can be answered with sound responses, then excellent. As a gamer, I'm all for cross-play. The advantage for me is that there will be a wider numbers of people playing these games, which makes it easier to find games. I won't have to wait long on Overwatch, for example, because the userbase will be bigger and I'll have a bigger pool of players to game with. So, I can definitely see the benefits.
Sheikah Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) I can think of why Sony don't want cross network play. They have got Microsoft by the balls this generation and so long as the systems can't play together, people will probably only be picking up one core system on account of the cost of the hardware and subscriptions. If you're looking to buy a console and all your mates have a PS4 (and multiplayer with them is important to you), you've got to get the PS4. If the games you mostly want have cross network play, you could get an Xbox if you wanted and still play the games with your mates. Obviously very anti-consumer either way but then so is securing exclusive content and timed exclusivity, which they're also all doing. Edited June 13, 2017 by Sheikah
Choze Posted June 13, 2017 Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) My thoughts are this is a straight up PR manufactured issue by MS. The language and timing are similar to the ones used for EA Access but this time Nintendo have tagged in as they are competitor's. If there was any interest in genuine discussion it never was there to begin with the moment it popped up. In EA's case Sony were perfectly their rights to not let publishers start creating their own walled gardens or sub services. Which most consumers don't actually respond to well anyhow(PS plus and xbox live both are below the 50% mark for usage). But more importantly there are many more PS4 to PC cross play games. I am pretty sure its not an anti cross play stance. Most companies have trouble working with MS going by the PC side. Given the evidence I think people are playing obtuse. Also its not 'anti consumer'. Its obvious why that term has popped up however given its MS and their lobbying history in the PC industry. Edited June 13, 2017 by Choze
DriftKaiser Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Yeah, they are gonna stick with PS4-PC cross platform games but they could reverse their decision someday. Maybe PS5 and Xbox 10 or whatever names they will pick for their next generation console.
Kav Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 For them to claim to be "For the players", this is simply a dick move.
DriftKaiser Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 For them to claim to be "For the players", this is simply a dick move. That "For The Players" campaign have nothing to do with the Cross-play with other console at all.
The Bard Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 That "For The Players" campaign have nothing to do with the Cross-play with other console at all. Surely the idiom "for the players" still suggests that the platform holders want to appeal to what the players want, and if the players want cross platform play doesn't this show an attitude contrary to their own marketing slogan? It's a ridiculously bad excuse, especially since Playstation consoles have traditionally been the most geared towards cross platform play (Portal 2, Street Fighter 5 etc all having Playstation/ PC crossplay). So yeah, if you're going to be anti consumer, at least find a decent excuse for it.
Kav Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 That "For The Players" campaign have nothing to do with the Cross-play with other console at all. As @The Bard said.
Choze Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) It's a ridiculously bad excuse Are you saying Nintendo should use the slogan or similar? I think MS already do to an extent here in the UK. Yeah, they are gonna stick with PS4-PC cross platform games but they could reverse their decision someday. Maybe PS5 and Xbox 10 or whatever names they will pick for their next generation console. I think people here forget that PC is not some console like platform. Don't let the PC master race bunch fool anyone. There are multiple game services, stores and providers(same goes for Mac/Linux). Imposing strict standards are nonsense. MS themselves use the window store/xbox live on PC. Which has had loads of issues. Not least with Steam etc. I am sure many here heard how COD Infinite Warfare had a separate player base compared to Steam. There are 0 players online at times. It can not be linked to steam players at all. Guess who MS decided to blame for that? https://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/11/08/why-no-cross-play-call-of-duty-infinite-warfare-windows-store-steam/ The only thing I can see here is that MS are consistently difficult to deal with and have burnt through many relationships. Epic's Paragon is also cross play between PC and PS4. There is no xbox version. Which is why this whole 'controversy' is a waste of time and more of an issue indicating the extreme fans Nintendo and MS are cultivating due to their lack of success. Edited June 14, 2017 by Choze
dazzybee Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Choze you really are deep into the cult.... There is no excuse for it, it's not about excuses, or other fans being extreme, it's a shit thing to do and I put money on Sony changing their stance very soon. Why isn't it a good thing if fans from all machines can play each other, proper democracy. What Sony are doing is pure arrogance and walling themselves in - I hope it backfires massively. It would be amazing if all Multiplatform games did this in my opinion, then friends and such aren't forced to buy the same machines.
Happenstance Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Choze you really are deep into the cult.... There is no excuse for it, it's not about excuses, or other fans being extreme, it's a shit thing to do and I put money on Sony changing their stance very soon. Why isn't it a good thing if fans from all machines can play each other, proper democracy. What Sony are doing is pure arrogance and walling themselves in - I hope it backfires massively. It would be amazing if all Multiplatform games did this in my opinion, then friends and such aren't forced to buy the same machines. I dont really see it as arrogance, just a business decision. They'd much rather your friend buy a PS4 and the game you are playing than be able to play it on their Xbox.
dazzybee Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 I dont really see it as arrogance, just a business decision. They'd much rather your friend buy a PS4 and the game you are playing than be able to play it on their Xbox. The arrogance comes from the fact they think they can get away with it; same arrogance Microsoft used to have before Apple took over them; Nintendo have had that arrogance many times too- the we don't need them mentality.
Sheikah Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Choze you really are deep into the cult.... There is no excuse for it, it's not about excuses, or other fans being extreme, it's a shit thing to do and I put money on Sony changing their stance very soon. Why isn't it a good thing if fans from all machines can play each other, proper democracy. What Sony are doing is pure arrogance and walling themselves in - I hope it backfires massively. It would be amazing if all Multiplatform games did this in my opinion, then friends and such aren't forced to buy the same machines. I'd put money the other way. No chance of them doing it any time soon on any big scale. I don't think Sony see any advantage in doing it right now as they're currently winning the generation by a large margin. They've also gone with exclusive content on a bunch of big titles for the sole purpose of getting people locked onto their ecosystem.
Choze Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Choze you really are deep into the cult.... There is no excuse for it, it's not about excuses, or other fans being extreme, it's a shit thing to do and I put money on Sony changing their stance very soon. Why isn't it a good thing if fans from all machines can play each other, proper democracy. What Sony are doing is pure arrogance and walling themselves in - I hope it backfires massively. It would be amazing if all Multiplatform games did this in my opinion, then friends and such aren't forced to buy the same machines. Democracy? Do you even know what a democracy is and what it involves? Also who is the one walling themselves in here? Do you know anything about what MS have been up to the past 2 years in regards to cross platform play? I'd put money the other way. No chance of them doing it any time soon on any big scale. I don't think Sony see any advantage in doing it right now as they're currently winning the generation by a large margin. They've also gone with exclusive content on a bunch of big titles for the sole purpose of getting people locked onto their ecosystem. I am sure there is a possibility Sony would do it. I am positive the issues are mostly on MS's side given their record with practically everyone. Actions speak louder than words and MS seem to be good at double speak but do something else. Edited June 14, 2017 by Choze Automerged Doublepost
dazzybee Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Democracy? Do you even know what a democracy is and what it involves? Also who is the one walling themselves in here? Do you know anything about what MS have been up to the past 2 years in regards to cross platform play? I am sure there is a possibility Sony would do it. I am positive the issues are mostly on MS's side given their record with practically everyone. Actions speak louder than words and MS seem to be good at double speak but do something else. I have no idea what ms have done no and don't particularly care, but looking at this objectively, now, Sony are the ones doing the wrong thing, trying to wall their users in and keep all the power. Anti-democracy - which gives power to the people. So yes. I do know what it means. You saying that makes me think maybe you don't...
Choze Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) I have no idea what ms have done no and don't particularly care, but looking at this objectively, now, Sony are the ones doing the wrong thing, trying to wall their users in and keep all the power. Anti-democracy - which gives power to the people. So yes. I do know what it means. You saying that makes me think maybe you don't... Well you might want to. Their record in PC gaming is interesting to say the least. Obviously many see the windows store as Games for Windows Live 2.0 Here is a thread on reddit regarding MS's commitment to PC gaming : Some summaries about whats been going on. https://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/11/08/why-no-cross-play-call-of-duty-infinite-warfare-windows-store-steam/ and again same link as earlier (steam and Windows store no interaction). re Democracy: Sorry if rude. If Tesco stopped selling 7up? Would that have anything to do with Democracy? 7UP may start using the term 'democracy' or 'competition is good' but what are both 7up's and Tesco's intentions and rights? Edited June 14, 2017 by Choze
Nolan Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Why are we throwing around political terms like democracy in a console discussion? Totalitarian is the only way to describe any business. They do what they want when they want and get away with as much as they can. Sony made a shitty excuse but their stance is hardly a bearing democracy. You use any console and sign up for any online service and you are tenuously bound by their EULA. The same EULA that often for most games says that they can terminate the servers at any point leaving you up shit creek. Don't like it too bad, it is not a democracy. That is everyone in the industry. Tldr they're all "anti-democracy".
DriftKaiser Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 Look like you have to use Xbox Live ID on Switch in order to play with Window 10 and Xbox One players on Minecraft. I won't be thrilled if I was asked to make a Xbox Live ID account so I can play with other players from different console.
Choze Posted June 14, 2017 Posted June 14, 2017 (edited) Why are we throwing around political terms like democracy in a console discussion? Totalitarian is the only way to describe any business. They do what they want when they want and get away with as much as they can. Sony made a shitty excuse but their stance is hardly a bearing democracy. You use any console and sign up for any online service and you are tenuously bound by their EULA. The same EULA that often for most games says that they can terminate the servers at any point leaving you up shit creek. Don't like it too bad, it is not a democracy. That is everyone in the industry. Tldr they're all "anti-democracy". Well its irrelevant. The EULA and TOS etc. are not enforceable in courts mostly. Who reads them anyhow? Also are you going to say every company is the same? The point in my example is that if 7up or the cigarette company gets their product taken off Tesco shelves, they tend to end up arguing for 'competition' and 'consumer choice' being good for consumers. These terms get overused by consumers due to the sheer amount of lobbying and subsequent parroting by the media(Tesco themselves would do the same anyhow). That doesn't make Tesco not accepting these products anti consumer at all. You probably would have more of a case if they did stock these products(sugar is bad and cigs cause cancer). and yes i am upset at the news about the people who died needlessly in the tower. I am curious if people here would call Bethesda passing off paid dlc as user mods, a good thing? A fast loading mod for example. Monetisation is not a bad thing in itself at all but several companies have gone into a general direction of taking the piss. Look like you have to use Xbox Live ID on Switch in order to play with Window 10 and Xbox One players on Minecraft. I won't be thrilled if I was asked to make a Xbox Live ID account so I can play with other players from different console. I dont think its the sign in. Either way MS conveniently are not saying what it is. Edited June 14, 2017 by Choze Automerged Doublepost
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