Phube Posted December 30, 2015 Posted December 30, 2015 somme said: Reveal hidden contents Yeah she was given to him, but she would have already known that, her being herself and all. It's possible he didn't know who dropped her off. Or his mind was Jedi-wiped. She was very young maybe she didn't know. It was in her sabre vision after-all, not her memory!
Emasher Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Reveal hidden contents I wasn't all that impressed. This wasn't an outright bad movie, but I didn't find it all that good either. I didn't think the story was all that interesting overall. The plot was pretty obviously derivative of A New Hope, and while there's nothing inherently wrong with basing things around an older movie, I don't think A New Hope had an interesting enough story in the first place for them to get away with that without adding much more than they did. There seemed to be a lot of ideas which had real potential, but weren't integrated all that well. Take Finn for example. He had a fairly interesting backstory to start with, a storm trooper going AWOL had a lot of potential, but he didn't seem to fit in all that well with the rest of the movie. If you eliminate him, the main plot could have progressed almost identically. Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but he doesn't really do anything all that important thinking about it. Rey was obviously a pretty important character, but she seemed way too powerful for someone of her experience. I can almost get over the fact that she was able to fly the Falcon without--as far as we know--having ever flow a starship before, and I can understand all her engineering knowledge given that she's spent most of her life salvaging old spaceship parts, but beyond that, it just started to get silly. Somehow she managed to make use for the force to do "Jedi mind tricks" on someone, and then go on to win a light saber duel against someone who had been training as a Jedi (and then presumably a Sith? Did they ever actually say Sith?) since childhood. Not to mention being able to use a blaster to take down a large number of trained professional soldiers without having any military training whatsoever. Contrast this with Luke in the original Trilogy who was very weak to start out, and throughout the movies, after intense training was finally able to master the force. It also felt like the different factions motivations weren't explained all that well, although, the original trilogy didn't really do that particularly well either. I don't think that "these guys are bad because they're bad, and are dressed kind of like Nazis, and these other guys are good because they fight the bad guys and have blue light sabers instead of red" is good enough anymore though. I understand why a planet destroying weapon is desirable, but why are the first order and rebels fighting in the first place? It seemed like there was far too many action sequences, and not enough worldbuilding. The whole map to Luke thing was a bit silly as well. Surely you would be able to find him with just the fragment of the map that had his actual location on it, rather than the fragment with the rest of the galaxy on it, and some path that doesn't seem to serve any purpose. It would have been much better to just say the coordinates were encrypted and part of the key was missing (which is still a simplification, but one that would at least make some sense). That last point is just nitpicking though. On a more positive note, I thought Harrison Ford's performance was pretty good, and the sub-plot about his family was one of the most interesting parts of the movie. I think when we look back on this movie, it'll likely be seen as one of the poorer of the Star Wars movies Disney made. They've set themselves up to potentially do some interesting things in the future, but I don't think this one stands up very well without the context that the next few will hopefully provide. At least the special effects were pretty.
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Hearing Dick Masterson's mini rant about the film saw me agreeing with him more than I thought I would: http://thebiggestproblemintheuniverse.com/
Jimbob Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Popped in to see this yesterday, i enjoyed it. To me though, it wasn't as good as the original trilogy but was a lot better than the prequel trilogy. Only had a few niggles, which were Reveal hidden contents Rey being able to use the force, without properly knowing she even had the force to begin with. Tied up on the new Death Star (i'm calling it that) being interrogated by Kylo Ren. The visions she had when picking up Luke's/Anakin's lightsabre, ok that was pretty cool. I doubt she would have learned how to use the force from that. To be honest, she was too powerful too early into this new trilogy. Looking back at the last 2 trilogies, both Anakin and Luke were young and inexperienced but learned over the course of the 3 movies. I can forgive her fight with Ren at the end, he was hurt from a few lucky shots from Chewie and Finn (add that to the incomplete training and unable to control emotions). I can understand how she can control the Falcon, salvaging ship parts and stuff over the years would have given her some knowledge. There probably wasn't a need to reveal the true face of Kylo Ren until that bridge scene with Han Solo, and even then it should have been for a short period. Him losing his temper with his lightsabre was funny.
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Luke never flew an X-Wing before Yavin as far as I'm aware, plus Obi Wan's training was pretty short and shitty yet he seemed to use the Force enough to destroy the Death Star - I'm not sure what people are having a gripe about, because it certainly wasn't explained how/why in A New Hope.
somme Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 I've found these days that people like to think just enough to ruin it for themselves. If they thought a little more they could work out these "plot holes" for themselves, and if they thought a little less they wouldn't even realise. There may well be a very good reason for Rey being so attuned with the force. Remember Anakin? He flew that podracer pretty well for a sport no other human could do, and he could pilot a fighter at the age of what, 10? When Rey got out of that cell she could hardly believe it worked herself, she later said to Finn when he asked how she escaped, "I can't explain it." She'd obviously heard myths about Jedi mind tricks and about how they did them but didn't really expect it to work. Who knows, a lot of this could be beginners luck. The harder she tries in the next film, the harder it may be for her to pull off.
Agent Gibbs Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 I'm with you guys, it was never considered in previous films, Luke flew a T-16 skyhopper and shot womprats (no bigger than 1m) in a new hope, then became an expert X-wing pilot in the length of time it took them to get to Yavin IV Anakin was equally skilled thru the force with technology I have no issue with Rey being able to fly or tap into the force once she'd awakened to the force
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 somme said: Remember Anakin? He flew that podracer pretty well for a sport no other human could do, and he could pilot a fighter at the age of what, 10? Yeah - Because of "Jedi reflexes", which I think is a bit of a cop-out. Flying a spaceship looks more faster and complicated. The explanation behind being able to pilot a ship was due to his fapping about in Watto's workshop - he did built Threepio after all, so he is familiar with various technology. Rey could be as well, it just did fuck all about establishing any backstory. somme said: I've found these days that people like to think just enough to ruin it for themselves. I think because I'm not thinking about it enough is why I'm finding the film all "meh".
Cube Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 Rey found a flight simulator on one of her scavenging runs. She had a lot of practice in that. That bit of backstory isn't important to the story, so they left it for other media to tell.
Dcubed Posted December 31, 2015 Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) I have to say that the film does hold up well on a second viewing (went to see it again a few days ago). The sheer amount of plot convinience still peeves me something fierce, but it's still a very fun watch. I'm still not a fan of the lightning fast pace of the movie, but it flows well and the script/acting/dialogue is really so very on point! It's great! Yeah it's basically a remake of A New Hope with some choice bits from ESB and ROTJ sprinkled in for good measure, but it's still good on its own merits. Still feels like a fan movie (which makes sense, considering that it basically is), but it's a very good one. Hope that Episode 8 actually takes its time to explain things better and establish more of the worlds/characters/lore before diving into the action though. It can stand to slow down a bit now that we have the ball rolling I reckon! Edited December 31, 2015 by Dcubed
somme Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 EEVILMURRAY said: Yeah - Because of "Jedi reflexes", which I think is a bit of a cop-out. Flying a spaceship looks more faster and complicated. The explanation behind being able to pilot a ship was due to his fapping about in Watto's workshop - he did built Threepio after all, so he is familiar with various technology. Rey could be as well, it just did fuck all about establishing any backstory. I think because I'm not thinking about it enough is why I'm finding the film all "meh". Well that's down to you, not the film. NYE was pretty great for me, as the bell struck midnight we played the "medal ceremony" music from A New Hope. That was pretty cool.
Ronnie Posted January 1, 2016 Posted January 1, 2016 Emasher said: Reveal hidden contents I wasn't all that impressed. This wasn't an outright bad movie, but I didn't find it all that good either. I didn't think the story was all that interesting overall. The plot was pretty obviously derivative of A New Hope, and while there's nothing inherently wrong with basing things around an older movie, I don't think A New Hope had an interesting enough story in the first place for them to get away with that without adding much more than they did. There seemed to be a lot of ideas which had real potential, but weren't integrated all that well. Take Finn for example. He had a fairly interesting backstory to start with, a storm trooper going AWOL had a lot of potential, but he didn't seem to fit in all that well with the rest of the movie. If you eliminate him, the main plot could have progressed almost identically. Perhaps I'm overlooking something, but he doesn't really do anything all that important thinking about it. Rey was obviously a pretty important character, but she seemed way too powerful for someone of her experience. I can almost get over the fact that she was able to fly the Falcon without--as far as we know--having ever flow a starship before, and I can understand all her engineering knowledge given that she's spent most of her life salvaging old spaceship parts, but beyond that, it just started to get silly. Somehow she managed to make use for the force to do "Jedi mind tricks" on someone, and then go on to win a light saber duel against someone who had been training as a Jedi (and then presumably a Sith? Did they ever actually say Sith?) since childhood. Not to mention being able to use a blaster to take down a large number of trained professional soldiers without having any military training whatsoever. Contrast this with Luke in the original Trilogy who was very weak to start out, and throughout the movies, after intense training was finally able to master the force. It also felt like the different factions motivations weren't explained all that well, although, the original trilogy didn't really do that particularly well either. I don't think that "these guys are bad because they're bad, and are dressed kind of like Nazis, and these other guys are good because they fight the bad guys and have blue light sabers instead of red" is good enough anymore though. I understand why a planet destroying weapon is desirable, but why are the first order and rebels fighting in the first place? It seemed like there was far too many action sequences, and not enough worldbuilding. The whole map to Luke thing was a bit silly as well. Surely you would be able to find him with just the fragment of the map that had his actual location on it, rather than the fragment with the rest of the galaxy on it, and some path that doesn't seem to serve any purpose. It would have been much better to just say the coordinates were encrypted and part of the key was missing (which is still a simplification, but one that would at least make some sense). That last point is just nitpicking though. On a more positive note, I thought Harrison Ford's performance was pretty good, and the sub-plot about his family was one of the most interesting parts of the movie. I think when we look back on this movie, it'll likely be seen as one of the poorer of the Star Wars movies Disney made. They've set themselves up to potentially do some interesting things in the future, but I don't think this one stands up very well without the context that the next few will hopefully provide. At least the special effects were pretty. I have to say as much as I loved the film, I agree with this. I don't think TFA will stand the test of time, it's just not interesting/memorble enough, mostly due to the lackluster final act. Much as I like Abrams, I'm glad they've given the second one to a different director.
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 We saw this for a second time. This time, on New Year's Eve with a few of our good friends to celebrate one of their birthdays. I definitely feel that I enjoyed the film more the second time around. I'd had time to digest the plot and new characters and I think you always enjoy the story better the second time around because you're less tense about "what's going to happen next?" and can just sit back and enjoy things more. Reveal hidden contents My favourite section of the entire film is that awesome scene where Hux delivers a Nazi style speech before using "the weapon" to destory that planet. Absolutely fantastic, well delivered and the accompanying music sent chills down my spine. Kylo Ren as a villain. I have to say that I'm a huge fan of the way that they've created this character. He's conflicted, young, naive, brash, rash and damaged. He is everything that I feel Lucas tried to do with Anakin in the prequels but failed miserably with his dialogue and execution in comparison to Kylo. I loved his character and am eager to see what they do with him next in the sequels. That scene where he and Han are on the walkway with the light disappearing from that Sun in the background to symbolise the light going out in Kylo and the darkness taking over is excellent cinema. Enjoy this scene more second time around. Overall, I have to say that I now love this film. It's Star Wars, but there are now new characters to love, whilst the old favourites are also incorporated in a tasteful way that actually means something to the plot. It does feel like a true sequel to Return of the Jedi. Chewbacca is my favourite thing about the film, couldn't stop laughing at each of his bits. Can't wait to see where the series goes from here.
dazzybee Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I've now seen it three times' probably a couple more to come. Absolutely love it... Reveal hidden contents general Hux is still the worst thing in the film by an absolute distance. Surprised you rate that scene so highly. It should be amazing. But his performance is so cringe worthy... His gurning face... Destroys it for me!
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 dazzybee said: I've now seen it three times' probably a couple more to come. Absolutely love it... Reveal hidden contents general Hux is still the worst thing in the film by an absolute distance. Surprised you rate that scene so highly. It should be amazing. But his performance is so cringe worthy... His gurning face... Destroys it for me! Really? That's surprising, you're the first person I've come across who didn't like the actor or that scene. Reveal hidden contents I liked his face during that scene. Pure hatred. But powerful. Like he fully believes in what he is saying and would rather die than say anything otherwise.
Kav Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Yeah, General Hux hammed it up so much, far too much... he was awful. Just terrible.
somme Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 I loved Hux. Yeah it's camp, but it's Star Wars, not Game of Thrones.
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 somme said: I loved Hux. Yeah it's camp, but it's Star Wars, not Game of Thrones. What was Jon Snow doing in it then?
somme Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 EEVILMURRAY said: What was Jon Snow doing in it then? He probably didn't know himself.
dazzybee Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Bizarre. Game of thrones is 90% awful performances And yeah, 1 dimensional panto villain Hux would maybe fit in in the original trilogy. But in this film, when the characters are so much more complex, he stands out a mile.
somme Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 dazzybee said: Bizarre. Game of thrones is 90% awful performances And yeah, 1 dimensional panto villain Hux would maybe fit in in the original trilogy. But in this film, when the characters are so much more complex, he stands out a mile. It really isn't. And I think you mean two-dimensional. One-dimensionality exists only in theory as a mathematical value.
dazzybee Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 somme said: It really isn't. And I think you mean two-dimensional. One-dimensionality exists only in theory as a mathematical value. Two dimensional is giving him one dimension too many PS You're wrong on the meaning of one dimensional
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) dazzybee said: Bizarre. Game of thrones is 90% awful performances And yeah, 1 dimensional panto villain Hux would maybe fit in in the original trilogy. But in this film, when the characters are so much more complex, he stands out a mile. Not sure if srs. I reckon you must be having us on here. Edit: I'm willing to bet that the cast of Game of Thrones have won tons of acting awards. Probably over a hundred nominations. Never heard anyone call the acting awful before! Lena Headey alone is fantastic. Edited January 3, 2016 by Fierce_LiNk
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 3, 2016 Posted January 3, 2016 Dcubed said: I have to say that the film does hold up well on a second viewing (went to see it again a few days ago). Agree to a degree, mainly because I knew what was going to happen and nothing new was going to surprise/disappoint me. After reading the IMDb trivia after watching it the first time (a tradition I do after nearly every film I watch now) and random news articles, it was nice to notice some of the quirky things I missed first time/didn't know (ie Daniel Craig.) However I only went to watch it a second time because I had to take the missus with me, who had been most displeased that I had been to see it without her - even though I hadn't exactly said I would go with her in the first place. The things I do for love. dazzybee said: But in this film, when the characters are so much more complex, he stands out a mile. They're not really though. Poe: Best Pilot. No other information given. Gives jacket away. Finn: Bred in a lab. Complete pussy. Gets free jacket. Rey: Freelance young Anakin Skywalker (in the sense that she messes with fucked up old machinery). Yes she has things unexplained, but things shrouded in mystery do not equal "complex". Chewie: Raaaarrrghh. Han Solo: Han Solo. Princess General Leia: Doing the same thing even though it appeared to be abolished 30-or-whatever years ago - effectively pissing on the whole efforts of the original trilogy.
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