Rummy Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Where's the line between glitch fixing and character rebalancing?
Serebii Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Where's the line between glitch fixing and character rebalancing? Lowering/raising damage inflicted and increasing/decreasing hitboxes
Jonnas Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 It doesn't matter if the changes are slight or not, or whether or not people like the changes. It's no longer the same game anymore, it's something else now. That means that SSB4 is now a "living" ongoing thing, rather than a "finished" game. It's a huge sweeping change to how games in this series (and indeed Nintendo games in general) are designed and I'm not comfortable with it. I can't say to anyone "This is Smash Bros 4 and this is how it plays" anymore. Some might be excited at the prospect of never truly having things set in stone and ever evolving, but I lament the loss of having the game just being there and finished, while people's own ways of playing the game evolve over time. Honestly, I think doing this with more "social" games makes sense, since metagame (not just competitive metagame) is such a vital part of the experience. Sure, it's weird at first, but there are a lot of factors you just can't predict without releasing the game in some form first. Fighting games have been doing this for years with their Arcade releases, and user feedback is how we got things like combos to stick around, and how Street Fighter II went on to become one of the best-balanced games out there. That said, it is disgustingly early to release a balance patch. A glitch-fix patch, sure, but balance patches should only be released yearly or so (metagame does take time to develop).
Dcubed Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Where's the line between glitch fixing and character rebalancing? For me it's fixing something unintentional (glitch fixing) vs fixing something previously done intentionally (the George Lucas style of post release change). In my mind, the former is acceptable while the latter is not.
f00had Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Here, have some more ugly Amiibos http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/11/nintendo_reveals_11_amiibo_super_smash_bros_figures_hitting_in_early_2015 Getting upset over balance patches seems really weird to me, other games have been doing them for a while and they've already fixed up some stuff before in previous patches like Zero Suit Samus' infinite on Robin.
Dcubed Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Here, have some more ugly Amiibos http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/11/nintendo_reveals_11_amiibo_super_smash_bros_figures_hitting_in_early_2015 Getting upset over balance patches seems really weird to me, other games have been doing them for a while and they've already fixed up some stuff before in previous patches like Zero Suit Samus' infinite on Robin. That kind of stuff is absolutely fine to me. And I don't care if other games do it, I don't like it; it doesn't make it acceptable in my mind (just like micro transactions or Skinner box techniques, just because it's an accepted norm elsewhere, doesn't mean it's fine - especially not with Nintendo games, I hold them to a higher standard!) I'm the kind of person who believes that any creative work should be left to stand alone once it is released (or at least it should be left alone as far as the original intended creative vision was - fixing unintentional mistakes or making things closer to their original intention, like fixing printing errors in a book, or broken frames in a movie release for instance are absolutely fine). Adding extra content to something post-release is also fine to me, as long as it does not change anything about the original release (or in the case of a remake, it is not pushed as a replacement for the original and both versions are continuously made available for people to experience). Doing something like what George Lucas did with the Star Wars movies (sorry to continue using the same example, but it's the most well known one) is absolutely abhorrent to me! I can't stand the idea of people wanting to re-write history after it has been made! Just because a thing can be done and has been done by others before, doesn't mean that it should be done!
Serebii Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Here, have some more ugly Amiibos http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/11/nintendo_reveals_11_amiibo_super_smash_bros_figures_hitting_in_early_2015 Getting upset over balance patches seems really weird to me, other games have been doing them for a while and they've already fixed up some stuff before in previous patches like Zero Suit Samus' infinite on Robin. Other games have been doing microtransactions and on disc DLC. Doesn't mean this should do it :p
Cube Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 I wish more people made changes to films in re-releases. Sure, some changes can be poor (like Star Wars), but others can be great (like Star Wars). Balance fixing in Smash is a great thing.
Glen-i Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 I'm not sure whether I like this or not... Say, for example, every character was as equally good as each other (Just go with it). I can't help but feel that would make the game more boring for me. It's funny when everyone chooses random and someone gets lumped with a character they're no good with. It's even funnier when that person manages to pull off a unexpected victory. (I did this yesterday with Diddy while fighting @Dcubed and his sis) I may be a casual player with Smash, but I do notice changes. It took me roughly 5 seconds to realise Meta Knight blows chunks now. And I'm fine with that. I'm plenty good with Greninja, Shulk, Mii, etc. Guess I just realised while typing this, that I'm not cool with it...
dazzybee Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 But they're not making each character the same, it's about balancing the weight of effectiveness. So people will still be good with some and not others, but the worst thing is having a character which is painfully overpowered compared forcing everyone to be them. The fun is in the variety of characters and the way they play, not how gimped/powerful they are. Just thought of something, I'm sure most of us have a USB hard drive. Takes up 2 USB's. They recommend using a LAN adatpor. Takes up 1 USB. The gamecube adapter takes up 2 USB's. That's 5. There are 4. Annoying...
S.C.G Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Just thought of something, I'm sure most of us have a USB hard drive. Takes up 2 USB's. They recommend using a LAN adatpor. Takes up 1 USB. The gamecube adapter takes up 2 USB's. That's 5. There are 4. Annoying... A powered USB Hard Drive only takes up 1 USB port, Lan adapter is optional - I've never had problems with the wireless - charging cable takes up 1 port so I have two ports free on the front of my Wii U ready for the GC controller adapter. The Wii U may have only four USB ports but that's still one more than both Xbox One and *PS4. *I realise that both the latter have internal hard drives but still, the USB situation for Wii U really isn't that bad.
Dcubed Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Either way, we won't know for sure what these "balance" changes are until they actually hit. I'm inclined to believe that it's just referring to the fixing of character specific glitches (which they have already done in the Wii U game - so they'd just be making both versions play the same, which is what they wanted to do originally). At least I hope so anyway... But they're not making each character the same, it's about balancing the weight of effectiveness. So people will still be good with some and not others, but the worst thing is having a character which is painfully overpowered compared forcing everyone to be them. The fun is in the variety of characters and the way they play, not how gimped/powerful they are. Just thought of something, I'm sure most of us have a USB hard drive. Takes up 2 USB's. They recommend using a LAN adatpor. Takes up 1 USB. The gamecube adapter takes up 2 USB's. That's 5. There are 4. Annoying... A powered USB Hard Drive only takes up 1 USB port, Lan adapter is optional - I've never had problems with the wireless - charging cable takes up 1 port so I have two ports free on the front of my Wii U ready for the GC controller adapter. The Wii U may have only four USB ports but that's still one more than both Xbox One and *PS4. *I realise that both the latter have internal hard drives but still, the USB situation for Wii U really isn't that bad. Wii U supports USB Hubs, so you can have just about as many USB ports as you want :p
Cube Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 You can also plug the power USB on the Gamecube adaptor into something else.
Serebii Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Pic of the day. Here's another new stage!! The Mario Circuit stage is modeled after Mario Kart 8, so the course flips upside down. On the upside-down course, Shy Guys jump their karts upside-down too!! It's amazing how the course twists on this stage. Of course, the gravity for the fighters will always go downward.
Dcubed Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 That looks awesome! (and also surprisingly close to the source material as well, just that the lighting/shading is a lot more basic looking really) A shame that the gravity doesn't get switched around for the fighters though...(I suppose that the Palkia Pokeball would've messed that all up though :p )
Goron_3 Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Either way, we won't know for sure what these "balance" changes are until they actually hit. I'm inclined to believe that it's just referring to the fixing of character specific glitches (which they have already done in the Wii U game - so they'd just be making both versions play the same, which is what they wanted to do originally). At least I hope so anyway... Wii U supports USB Hubs, so you can have just about as many USB ports as you want :p There are some balance issues with characters like Diddy Kong (can cancel any hitstun) and Rosalina (zero lag on aerials if you know how) which breaks them somewhat, so I expect those to be fixed. I also think all the Yoshi glitches will be fixed..I don't know what the hell happened when they programmed him but he just teleports everywhere when using those eggs!
Rummy Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Maybe a stupid question - has the issue of voice chat been addressed re: Smash4WiiU yet?
Wii Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Maybe a stupid question - has the issue of voice chat been addressed re: Smash4WiiU yet? Yep. It's done the same way as MK8. No chat in game, chat in the lobby if you're friends with them.
Kav Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Yep. It's done the same way as MK8. No chat in game, chat in the lobby if you're friends with them. Urgh... I just might not get this now, it's just not worth buying given the amount of time I'll put into it. I knew it'd be the case but I held out some hope. Tragic.
Hero-of-Time Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Urgh... I just might not get this now, it's just not worth buying given the amount of time I'll put into it. I knew it'd be the case but I held out some hope. Tragic. We can just party up on the PS4 while playing it.
Kav Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 We can just party up on the PS4 while playing it. Haha. I can't, my PS4 is in a different room to my WiiU and the Gamepad won't work in any other rooms in my apartment... even if it's no more than 6ft from the console with just the one wall inbetween.
Wii Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Urgh... I just might not get this now, it's just not worth buying given the amount of time I'll put into it. I knew it'd be the case but I held out some hope. Tragic. I'm definitely getting it. I sent an e-mail to Nintendo after I bought MK8 about the disappointing voice chat options in their games and online generally. I got an automated response back and another might as well be automated response. No point writing to them. As long as they get your money they don't care. So how do protest without not buying it? I can tolerate it, after that awesome Smash Direct it pales in significance really.
Serebii Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Urgh... I just might not get this now, it's just not worth buying given the amount of time I'll put into it. I knew it'd be the case but I held out some hope. Tragic. I can explain the technical reasons as to why voice chat could hamper the Smash experience, since it doesn't use extrapolation in play, if you wish :p I think saying you're not getting it because of that is a bit...much. Lack of it in no way impedes gameplay or makes the game worse.
Wii Posted November 12, 2014 Posted November 12, 2014 Pre-load now live for Super Smash Bros. Wii U in North America and Europe Super Smash Bros. for Wii U can now be pre-loaded in North America and Europe. It’s the first title on Nintendo’s console to make use of the functionality. Pre-loading allows Wii U owners to buy games in advance and have them downloaded before release. Most of the game data will be downloaded at the time of pre-purchase while the system is in Standby mode. The final data needed to unlock Smash Bros. Wii U will be automatically downloaded at midnight Eastern time on November 21. You can buy Smash Bros. Wii U in advance directly from the eShop or by purchasing a download code from retailers. Additionally, the title can be pre-ordered on Nintendo.com. Pre-orders on the company’s website now support the same pre-load capability. Those who have pre-ordered the digital version of the game on Nintendo.com using their Nintendo Network ID will be emailed a redemption code within 72 hours. Once redeemed, they will also be able to pre-load the game. You’ll find Nintendo’s official Smash Bros. Wii U pre-load announcement below. REDMOND, Wash.–(BUSINESS WIRE)– It’s no secret that video game fans are beyond eager to get their hands on Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. To help shoppers avoid the day-one rush, Nintendo is offering a few ways for people to get their hands on the game as soon as possible after it launches in the Nintendo eShop on Wii U. Starting now, Wii U owners can pre-purchase Super Smash Bros. for Wii U directly from the Nintendo eShop or by purchasing a download code for the game from participating retailers. At the time of pre-purchase, much of the game’s data will be pre-loaded to the purchaser’s Wii U system if it is in Standby mode. As soon as the game releases in the Nintendo eShop at midnight Eastern time on Nov. 21, the final data needed to unlock the full game will automatically download. Super Smash Bros for Wii U has also been available for pre-order on Nintendo.com. Today Nintendo announces that these pre-orders will also support the same pre-load capability. Within 72 hours of the game’s release date, people who have pre-ordered the digital version of the game on Nintendo.com using their Nintendo Network ID will be emailed a redemption code. Once they redeem the code, they will also be able to pre-load the game. These pre-purchase and pre-load options offer a tremendous benefit to players, who will be among the first people able to play the game once it arrives on their Wii U systems. For more information about the Super Smash Bros. for Wii U game, visit http://www.smashbros.com/us. http://nintendoeverything.com/pre-load-now-live-for-super-smash-bros-wii-u-in-north-america-and-europe/
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