Retro_Link Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) You may be right that it was the only way forward for the franchise. I'm just afraid they're moving further and further away from what Bond was and stood for. Yes, but you could argue that Die Another Day was the most outrageous Bond film of all time... and yet it's arguably the worst! It was probably time the series was shaken up (see what I did there!... no?... moving on), but I don't think it would hurt to reintroduce a few gadgets etc... They've still kept some of the one liners/sexual inuendo's etc... although I don't think they work quite as well in the realistic universe, coming across a bit menacing. I think there are some great old Bond films out there, I just struggle to remember their names! Edited January 13, 2011 by Retro_Link
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Yes, but you could argue that Die Another Day was the most outrageous Bond film of all time... and yet it's arguably the worst! It was probably time the series was shaken up (see what I did there!... no?... moving on), but I don't think it would hurt to reintroduce a few gadgets etc... They've still kept some of the one liners/sexual inuendo's etc... although I don't think they work quite as well in the realistic universe, coming across a bit menacing. I think there are some great old Bond films out there, I just struggle to remember their names! I never said that outrageousness = quality, though. I just said that I don't care much for this much more realistic, gritty, hardcore approach to it. While I agree that the old style probably wouldn't work as well today, I would have hoped they would've attempted to maintain what Bond stood for. Ironically, what best represents the old genre today are the films/shows that parody the genre, like Get Smart.
Happenstance Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Ive never been a big fan of the Bond films but I found that the older ones (at least before Casino Royale) had character. The 2 new ones for me just felt like generic action movies and not even particularly good ones.
Retro_Link Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I never said that outrageousness = quality, though. I just said that I don't care much for this much more realistic, gritty, hardcore approach to it. While I agree that the old style probably wouldn't work as well today, I would have hoped they would've attempted to maintain what Bond stood for. Ironically, what best represents the old genre today are the films/shows that parody the genre, like Get Smart.Austin Powers :p No I didn't say you did, I just meant that with Die Another Day it seemed obvious perhaps the old formula maybe just doesn't work anymore? Goldeneye/TND/TWinE, seem to hit a pretty good middle ground, but even so (and as brilliant as Goldeneye is), I don't think it could have carried on the way it was, especially after Die Another Day! But yeah, maybe it could have been done a bit better, not quite so generic, and with a few gadgets! As far a gritty realism goes Bourne > New Bond.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Austin Powers :p No I didn't say you did, I just meant that with Die Another Day it seemed obvious perhaps the old formula maybe just doesn't work anymore? Goldeneye/TND/TWinE, seem to hit a pretty good middle ground, but even so (and as brilliant as Goldeneye is), I think the change was needed. But yeah, maybe it could have been done a bit better, not quite so generic, and with a few gadgets! As far a gritty realism goes Bourne > New Bond. Oh, definitely, I think it's hard to replicate the formula today without it becoming a parody of itself. The Brosnan era (bar Die Another Day, perhaps - I haven't seen it myself) did make things more realistic while still keeping the classic Bond charm - something which the Craig films are missing entirely.
Aimless Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I think our difference of opinion stems from your definition of 'charm' falling into my one of 'sleaze'. Honestly I haven't read the original books, but my dad — who has — said that Casino Royale is tonally much more befitting of the source material. In that sense the high camp Bond has become known for isn't really what he stood for at all.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I think our difference of opinion stems from your definition of 'charm' falling into my one of 'sleaze'. Honestly I haven't read the original books, but my dad — who has — said that Casino Royale is tonally much more befitting of the source material. In that sense the high camp Bond has become known for isn't really what he stood for at all. Most definitely. I've heard the same about Casino Royale, but while the original, literary incarnation of Bond may have stood for one thing, the film incarnation pretty much developed into its own, separate being, one that has heavily influenced, if not downright created a genre.
Jimbob Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Most definitely. I've heard the same about Casino Royale, but while the original, literary incarnation of Bond may have stood for one thing, the film incarnation pretty much developed into its own, separate being, one that has heavily influenced, if not downright created a genre. All i'm thankfull for, is that they made Casino Royale an Official Bond movie. And, i didn't pay a penny for it either. Once i bought a Blu-ray player, all i did was register it online and Sony sent me it absolutly free. Just don't get me started on that "other" version from back in the 60's.
mcj metroid Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I'm not sure I get the casion royale hate. It's much better than any other bond film and I've seen most of them. Seemed to have some genuine emotion in the movie.
Yars Revenge Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I watched Quantum Of Solace yesterday (better late than never) and was disappointed,i reckon after Golden Eye the theme tunes have got worse,i mean the title sound track to QOS from Alicia Keys was the biggest pile of scat i have ever heard lol,i watched the film from beginning to end and still could not understand the story so for the first time ever i think i have actually lost interest :-(
Retro_Link Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Yeah the theme tune is aweful, though I think Jack White has a bigger part to play i that! And yep, the story is rubbish!
Nicktendo Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Goldeneye is a epic. Tomorrow Never Dies is... far-fetched, but still pretty good, relevant in some ways even. The World is not Enough is also an excellent, excellent film but starts to blur the boundaries between fiction and simply ridiculous. Die Another Day is pure shit. Not even close to being a good film. Just unbelievable in it's 'trying so hard to be cool' shitness. I haven't seen the Daniel Craig ones, but I already know they're better than Die Another Day. I welcome a third.
Nintendohnut Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 I am REALLY excited about this. I have to say that while Quantum was disappointing (better on second watch but still not great), Casino Royale is right up there as one of my favourite Bond films. I would count myself as something of a Bond geek to be honest, in my last year at uni a friend and I bought the box set of all the films and watched every single one. It was amazing. I was pretty devastated when they announced that the Bond franchise was being put on hold so soon after the reboot of the reboot (of the reboot) but I'm really happy that they got it back on track. I just hope that the rumours I read were true and that the story will be based on Devil May Care. It was a fantastic Bond story. ----------------- You may be right that it was the only way forward for the franchise. I'm just afraid they're moving further and further away from what Bond was and stood for. The problem is that a) It wouldn't fit with modern day cinema and b) that has only been what Bond has stood for after Roger Moore. While I'm not saying he was a bad Bond (far from it) there were moments in his films (such as the car flip with a 'whoooooooop' noise as it went up and a '...wheeeeeeeep' noise as it came down) that lowered the series into a parody of itself. Bond isn't about gadgets in the books (he says in the books, in fact, that he dislikes using the gadgets given to him by the Q branch). I certainly appreciate them in the older films, and I understand the differences between the books and films are a good thing in many cases, and they are separate media but... I think our difference of opinion stems from your definition of 'charm' falling into my one of 'sleaze'. Honestly I haven't read the original books, but my dad — who has — said that Casino Royale is tonally much more befitting of the source material. In that sense the high camp Bond has become known for isn't really what he stood for at all. You are exactly right. I've read the books and they are nothing like the films... until Casino Royale. Bond is serious about his job, worried about getting old, a heavy drinker and smoker but passionate about what he does and confident about his abilities. The missions are never overly extreme or unbelievable (for example Moonraker was about a government-sanctioned nuclear weapons program to stop the Cold War rather than a jaunt into space to create a master race) and he is a real person rather than some superhero. I think Craig did really well at bringing out the Bond from the books and showing both his emotional and confident sides in Casino Royale. Plus the scheme wasn't about destroying the world. It stuck to the plot of the book and was simply about stopping Le Chiffre making a lot of money. TL;DR I'm excited. Bond is epic. New Bond is just as epic, more like the books. Yay!
Cube Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 I think Quantum of Solace is pretty decent if you watch it straight after Casino Royale and treat it as an extended version. On it's own it's different.
daftada Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 I enjoyed Casino Royale but Quantum of Solace was just awful. It felt like a generic action film, with almost nothing that made it feel like a true Bond film. I've always hoped one of the films would give Bond an assignment that effectively makes Bond a villain - kinda like if MI6 took on a mission that was vital to government security but ethically and morally wrong and explore how Bond reacted to being the 'bad guy' for once.
david.dakota Posted January 15, 2011 Posted January 15, 2011 Tomorrow Never Dies is... far-fetched, Really?
LegoMan1031 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 How have i not posted in this yet? I love the bond films, there ace. In some respects you can't beat the old ones and what each actor brought to the character. I always found Timothy Dalton underrated, i really enjoyed his 2 films (more so Living Daylights). Goldeneye was amazing. I thought Casino Royale was great as well, QoS was good but not as much so. I own them all up to Die Another Day on VHS and have got them all on DVD as well (Casino Royale and QoS on blu ray). Ive got a 007 Scene it? dvd game but can hardly play it with anyone as they don't know bond as well as i do! Glad to see they have got through their money troubles and are bringing out 23. Would be nice if maybe they introduce moneypenny and Q with a few gadgets (they dont have to be over the top if they are trying to keep it 'real').
chairdriver Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 The Bond films are, in general, horrendously overrated. Even when you employ the technique of judging things for what they are.
Retro_Link Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I wouldn't really use the term overrated. I don't think anyone genuinely rates the series highly on critical levels. It is however rated highly on being a lot of fun, on being cool, on sense of enjoyment, great action etc... It depends how you want to look at it.
LegoMan1031 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Bond is certainly not overrated in my books! I can't really describe it though, it is probably like what Retro said above, it being cool, and i do find them really fun to watch and get 'into the action' etc!
chairdriver Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I wouldn't really use the term overrated. I don't think anyone genuinely rates the series highly on critical levels. It is however rated highly on being a lot of fun, on being cool, on sense of enjoyment, great action etc...It depends how you want to look at it. My uncle, who is the most annoying person ever for thinking anything he is involved with / invested in / likes is the best thing of its kind, pretty much lives on "You can't get better films than the Bond series". My Mum and I are just like "...". Especially since there's no degree of awareness involved.
Retro_Link Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 So your general view of the films being highly overrated is based off your uncles personal opinion?
chairdriver Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 So your general view of the films being highly overrated is based off your uncles personal opinion? No, you said you didn't think anyone genuinely rated the series, and I replied to that tangentially, and didn't really finish my thoughts on the matter / was bored by the whole idea / am egocentric. The series in general is just one of those things where you think "Why is this considered essential viewing?".
Retro_Link Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 No, you said you didn't think anyone genuinely rated the series, and I replied to that tangentially, and didn't really finish my thoughts on the matter / was bored by the whole idea / am egocentric. The series in general is just one of those things where you think "Why is this considered essential viewing?". No I said I don't think anyone rates them highly on any critical level, as in the writing/effects/acting... on that level I don't think anyone genuinely thinks they are the best films ever... but they could be called the best films ever on being those that you are able to get the most enjoyment from. And maybe that's why some consider them essential viewing.
jayseven Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Chair; the bond movies are part of the bloke stereotype. Girls, gadgets, guns, cars. All that's missing is football! You're not a bloke, therefore you are not the target audience, so you aren't meant to enjoy the movies.
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