What Amounts To Success? (thrip)

[Oxigen_Waste]

Mokong XC... didn't he get married this year? not to mention him and Joy had their first child very recently.

 

Don't take me wrong... kudos on the kid and the marriage, obviously, but... how exactly is this success?

 

Also, what the hell did will do that I'm obviously not aware of?

[ReZourceman]

Also, what the hell did will do that I'm obviously not aware of?

 

Has an endless supply of attractive women, works for one of the worlds top gaming companies, got a transfer to one of the most exciting and fun cities in the world, etc etc etc...

 

(Sega, San Fran, blah)

[S.C.G]

Don't take me wrong... kudos on the kid and the marriage, obviously, but... how exactly is this success?

 

Well... it's progress isn't it? He's married the woman that he loves and presumably wants to spend the rest of his life with, the actual act of 'getting married' is generally considered to be a big thing for what it represents plus the birth of your own child is supposed to be a life-changing experience.

 

It may be true that nearly every human being on this planet has the capability to reproduce but surely that doesn't detract from it being any less special when it's your own child?

 

Perhaps I've got it all wrong but isn't having a family of your own considered success in some way... while it may be true that potentially 'anyone' can do it, not everyone actually does, sometimes through choice and other times because they feel that they can't so I just thought that in some small way it would be considered as success.

 

Isn't the same in Will's case? Potentially anyone could do what he did this year - got an awesome job and relocated to a different country etc - but not everyone does or it doesn't happen very often.

 

Hmm I think this begs the question... 'how does one measure success?' because even I'm not sure anymore. :p

[Oxigen_Waste]

Well... it's progress isn't it? He's married the woman that he loves and presumably wants to spend the rest of his life with, the actual act of 'getting married' is generally considered to be a big thing for what it represents plus the birth of your own child is supposed to be a life-changing experience.

 

It may be true that nearly every human being on this planet has the capability to reproduce but surely that doesn't detract from it being any less special when it's your own child?

 

Perhaps I've got it all wrong but isn't having a family of your own considered success in some way... while it may be true that potentially 'anyone' can do it, not everyone actually does, sometimes through choice and other times because they feel that they can't so I just thought that in some small way it would be considered as success.

 

Isn't the same in Will's case? Potentially anyone could do what he did this year - got an awesome job and relocated to a different country etc - but not everyone does or it doesn't happen very often.

 

Hmm I think this begs the question... 'how does one measure success?' because even I'm not sure anymore. :p

 

I'll bet he's happy (for now) and proud, and I congratulate him, but I still fail to see in what way that actually equates with success! I mean, by those standards 85% of third world countries' populations are successfull people and the dark ages were a thriving age.

If anything, I'd personally say he's failing at life for slowing himself down with kids at such a young age. It's like he's having a kid just to add some excitement to the formula... Young couple working medium level desk jobs and lacking the ambition to climb any higher, pretty much acommodated to their way of life and numbed by comfort and fiction, so in comes a kid just to spice things up. I don't know, sounds like the opposite of success to me.

 

Also, I'm generalizing here, this is just a guess, I know nothing of Mokong's situation in life, but at first glance, that's what I think I see. (Also, Mokong, please do not feel offended by any of this I just said, happiness doesn't come in levels, if you're happy with your life, that makes you just as worthy as any over achiever out there, I'm not belittling you. In the end that's what it's all about, the pursuit of happiness, right? So as long as you're happy, you are indeed a rich person. This is just for the sake of the argument, as to what exactly defines a successfull individual).

 

The developed modern world came about precisely because we stopped focusing on starting a family and reproducing and started focusing on the possibility of investing in oneself and taking full advantage of our full human potential! Dunno, sounds more like it's a clash of values, this here.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think starting a family is important too! When it's right!

 

I dunno, I have this picture in my mind... finishing higher education, seeing the world, maybe trying to change some tiny part of it... living to the extreme while you can. Feeling alive, instead of just breathing! A little bit of that "high on life" attitude. Not slowly fading away into a numbed existance. Develop a career working something you like (even if it's just a little). If you happen to meet "the one" along the way, great, don't let her slip past you, but don't rush it! Take your time! Experience life together before you start a family together... I have a theory you should never have a child with anyone you've been with for less than 10 years (unless the expiration date is looming, lol). More importantly, give yourselves a chance to live without anchors while you're still young.

And then eventually, yes... start a family! Unless it's unplanned, I refuse to have children till I'm at least 37! Having a younger gf is always nice considering it lowers the pregnancy risk, ah! Then, yes, pop out a couple of brats and adopt a third one! Raise them when you're wiser and with much more financial stability, and finally settle into a calm responsible life, knowing you lived your youth to the max, and still have at least about 25 years left to raise those kids properly!

But that's me... I know I'm a dreamer, but I'm not aiming that high and let's be honest, any one of us can achieve this dream life of mine if we wanted to... I just want to feel like it was all worth it, in the end.

 

And I will have my year mountain hiking through Asia, blowing all my savings and working oddjobs along the way!! That's my little slice of heaven, right there. Shouting at the top of my lungs in the himalayas or angkor! Now that's a story for the kids! Skinny dipping in Ha Long Bay, walking along the open street market at Lhasa, running down the forbidden city with the wind under your arms... I'm getting chills.

 

Now if I could find a job in Hong Kong, my dream life would be perfect. But that one's gonna be tricky, ah!

 

Anyway, I'm getting severly off topic here, maybe we should make this into a new thread.

[Dan_Dare]

dude, chill

[Eenuh]

I dunno, I have this picture in my mind... finishing higher education, seeing the world, maybe trying to change some tiny part of it... living to the extreme while you can. Feeling alive, instead of just breathing! A little bit of that "high on life" attitude. Not slowly fading away into a numbed existance. Develop a career working something you like (even if it's just a little). If you happen to meet "the one" along the way, great, don't let her slip past you, but don't rush it! Take your time! Experience life together before you start a family together... I have a theory you should never have a child with anyone you've been with for less than 10 years (unless the expiration date is looming, lol). More importantly, give yourselves a chance to live without anchors while you're still young.

And then eventually, yes... start a family! Unless it's unplanned, I refuse to have children till I'm at least 37! Having a younger gf is always nice considering it lowers the pregnancy risk, ah! Then, yes, pop out a couple of brats and adopt a third one! Raise them when you're wiser and with much more financial stability, and finally settle into a calm responsible life, knowing you lived your youth to the max, and still have at least about 25 years left to raise those kids properly!

But that's me... I know I'm a dreamer, but I'm not aiming that high and let's be honest, any one of us can achieve this dream life of mine if we wanted to... I just want to feel like it was all worth it, in the end.

 

Bit scary how similar this is to how I feel. =P

 

I don't want to settle and start a family yet anytime soon (if ever, kids still scare me). I want to have a taste of life, see the world, do the things I like. Don't feel like I've had the chance to do that yet due to education. And I won't be able to do it if I have kids. I'll be turning 26 soon, so my chances of seeing the world are getting smaller every day. I don't know what the age cap is to have children at, but I don't want that to stop me from enjoying my life.

 

As for what makes you great at life (this award), I don't really know. It's a personal thing. Some people's goal is to start a family, others want to find a job they like, some want to finally get that degree they've been aiming for... Everyone has different goals, so it seems a bit weird to say "this person is winning at life", when so many of us are (each on their own terms and at their own speed).

[Oxigen_Waste]

dude, chill

 

I've got a soul boner right now. It's hard to keep it under control!!!

 

Bit scary how similar this is to how I feel. =P

 

I don't want to settle and start a family yet anytime soon (if ever, kids still scare me). I want to have a taste of life, see the world, do the things I like. Don't feel like I've had the chance to do that yet due to education. And I won't be able to do it if I have kids. I'll be turning 26 soon, so my chances of seeing the world are getting smaller every day. I don't know what the age cap is to have children at, but I don't want that to stop me from enjoying my life.

 

As for what makes you great at life (this award), I don't really know. It's a personal thing. Some people's goal is to start a family, others want to find a job they like, some want to finally get that degree they've been aiming for... Everyone has different goals, so it seems a bit weird to say "this person is winning at life", when so many of us are (each on their own terms and at their own speed).

 

Ran out of thanks, so thanks.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I admire your life goals, Oxi. Sounds truly awesome! But you have to realise this is not the dream for everyone. What makes life good/successful can't be determined by how hard it is to acheive. For some, raising a family is their true goal in life. For others, it's developing the definitive cure against cancer. None of these goals are "better" than the others. It's all about what YOU want from life.

 

So yeah, I think this award should be measured by who seems to have achieved most of their own life dream. In which case Mokong seems to be the best candidate for this year's winner in my eyes.

[Diageo]

It's better to have kids when young, if you wait until you are older and financially stable, it can mean high risks for the baby. The older you are when you get pregnant, the more problems your child is likely to have.

[Oxigen_Waste]

It's better to have kids when young, if you wait until you are older and financially stable, it can mean high risks for the baby. The older you are when you get pregnant, the more problems your child is likely to have.

 

You like small percentages, don't you? It's like the cousins thing all over again.

 

Also, if we do end up with damaged goods, we'll just have to send it back and order another one.

 

Apologies to anyone who might have a retarded brother or whichever.

[Diageo]

They are not small at all.

 

If you just look at Down Syndrome.

If you have a baby at around the age of 20, then 1 in every 1,900 births will result in Down Syndrome, which is a small percentage. But if you wait until you are 35, then it is 1 in every 300 births. Still, may not be so bad. Wait until you are 45 and it's 1 in every 30 births. That's an incredibly high risk. [As cited in Child Development, Santrock, 2010]

 

If you think about it, this is only one syndrome, and there are many others that are affected by how old the mother is when pregnant.

[nightwolf]

This is something that occured to me recently when I was speaking to a friend about the same thing.

 

Her idea of maturing in life - is to have a family, with a husband. Personally I don't see myself ever having children (There are various good reasons.) and marriage to me seems redundent, for me maturing and having success in life is seeing the world, soaking up all you can and whilst on your last day realising you had a massive amount of fun. Sure I'm massively glad my dad and mum had me, my sister and I love my family, but I don't want my own family, I don't want kids or a big white wedding. I just don't see it - ever.

 

But then who cares, I would say to me it's successful to have a family because it's not something I see myself having!

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

But then who cares, I would say to me it's successful to have a family because it's not something I see myself having!

 

So you define success by how unlikely you yourself are to achieve it, even if it's something you say you have no interest in achieving?

[Pancake]

I just wanna say that i hate how society gives you a pat on the back for having children. And i don't think it's any sort of yardstick for success whatsoever. Anyone can do it. The world is grossly overpopulated, for society to encourage or back pat anyone for having children is sick. People should instead be encouraged to adopt, and reduce an already existing number of unwanted kiddies, and plus maybe grow a little themselves by learning to love a kiddie that's not yours, as if it was yours. But instead it's made ridiculously difficult to adopt.

 

I'm not saying demonize someone for having children, but for society to actively encourage it is reeeal sick! It's like society cannibalising itself! Yuk.

 

On a more intimate scale, i can see how having sprogs would make you happy, and why your friends would coo over you, etc, etc. But society shouldn't be encouraging it.

 

Marriage, i can see how there is some success involved there (assuming it's a happy one), because you've made a long term relationship work. But it's the making it work that's the success bit, not the actual marriage - that's just a convention.

 

Hmmm, personally i've not much interest in following the traditional paths in life. Why would i. I just want to experiment and try and find out what makes me happy. Finding it quite difficult to do this experimenting though, due to £££ restraints, and lack of decent friends.

 

I just think success is subjective. Maybe you're one of those weird people that are scared of beans and you eat beans on toast one day and that's success to you.

[Mokong]

Firstly before I get into anything just like to point out I didn't nominate myself nor am I trying to campange for the award. I'm just glad that some people here have seen what's going on for me and view me as having achived something positive in my life thus far.

 

Maybe Jaysevens use of "Success" in the description was misplaced, perhaps the 2nd part

Whose impressed us the most?

 

is more fitting.

 

 

But I do take issue with some of the things Oxigen said, his post reads like he might as well of started with

 

"I mean no disrespect but...."

 

And the bits where you try to say "dont be offended" sound like you only put it in there to try and justify yourself.

 

You said it yourself

I know nothing of Mokong's situation in life...

 

Exactly, you don't know anything about me, while the people here who had voted for me do know stuff about me. So where do you come off trying to judge me based on the standards/theories you set for yourself.

 

If anything, I'd personally say he's failing at life for slowing himself down with kids at such a young age. It's like he's having a kid just to add some excitement to the formula... Young couple working medium level desk jobs and lacking the ambition to climb any higher, pretty much acommodated to their way of life and numbed by comfort and fiction, so in comes a kid just to spice things up. I don't know, sounds like the opposite of success to me.

 

If you know nothing about me what makes you think I'm just having a kid to add "excitement". As for slowing me down, if anything it'll speed me up. I have no lack of ambition and not pretty much accomodated in my way of life. I do enjoy my life as it is, if I can achieve more then fair play, if not it's not going to bother me. But my son is not just here to "spice things up".

 

Lets see you want to know more about me...

 

I dunno, I have this picture in my mind... finishing higher education, seeing the world, maybe trying to change some tiny part of it... living to the extreme while you can. Feeling alive, instead of just breathing! A little bit of that "high on life" attitude. Not slowly fading away into a numbed existance. Develop a career working something you like (even if it's just a little). If you happen to meet "the one" along the way, great, don't let her slip past you, but don't rush it! Take your time! Experience life together before you start a family together... I have a theory you should never have a child with anyone you've been with for less than 10 years (unless the expiration date is looming, lol). More importantly, give yourselves a chance to live without anchors while you're still young.

 

Higher Education: well I didn't go to college or University after finishing secondary school. I went straight into working. It wasn't the best of jobs but it was a wage. But you know at that stage I wasn't all that concerned much anyway. Hell if you had told me then that by 2011 I'd be married with a child I wouldn't believe you as I had no intentions of doing any of that at that time. After meeting Joy who would be my future wife things changed, for the better I would say.

I did go back into education, I did it for her and for us, I likely wouldn't have other wise.

I finished top of my class too and did so well at the office where I did work expereince that they hired me as soon as my exams finished long before I even got the results.

 

Seeing the World: I've done my fair share of travelling throughout my life. I don't think there's been a year in the last 10 or 12 where I haven't been abroad. While most trips have been to the Philippines, I have been to other places too, and I do intend to go to many others in the future. Having a wife and child will not prevent me from doing that as she wants to travel too and I'm not going deny my son the chance to see different places either. Actually I've done more travelling within the Philippines itself to different parts and seen more of it than my own mother has, and she grew up there.

Hell my previous job was in travel and I got the opputunity to go visit a few places for work, even got to fly in Bussiness Class (that's certainly something marked off my "things to do" list)

 

And I'd say bringing life into the world would count as "changing a tiny bit of it", I certainly am not "just breathing" and I can assure you I "feel alive" every day. The day my son was born I would actually consider one of the "most alive feeling" days of my life.

 

Joy and I have been together for almost 8 years now, married for a year. There's been nothing rushed about this relationship and we planned to have a baby. We could have had one sooner but unfortunately we had a misscarriage last year so to have a baby now is to us a great success and celebration. As for getting married or having kids young (I'm 27 btw) we discussed it and both prefered to have a baby now rather than waiting. Some like to wait others don't. We wanted a child so why wait till we're in our 30's. I'd rather be just nearing my 50's when my boy hits 20 rather than closer to 60 or more.

 

Joy and I have been through a lot together, not least of all a half way round the world long distance relationship, that nobody thought we could survive and make work. Yet we did dispite all the odds. You want to measure "success" by money, while I would in no ways consider myself "rich" I had worked hard and also had enough money to be able to afford to jet off to her once a year, staying for anywhere from 4 weeks to 10weeks at a time, every year before the wedding and her moving here. I've never had to take out a loan and I've never been in dept to anyone. My father would be someone who likes to "stay still however" he never brought my mother on holiday anywhere other than the Philippines so she could visit her family. And even then he'd only bring her as far as her hometown, wouldn't bring anywhere different to see anything new. Over the past few years I've bought my mother some holidays and sent her to some places she's always wanted to see. To me that would be a success.

 

You say settling down and starting a family will have "slowed me down" but to me it's the opposite, had I not met Joy I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have done or seen any of the things that I have over the last few years. And having a son now is only going to help push me further in the future.

 

I'm not trying to suggest I'm perfect or better than anyone else, i'm not, this is just what I've been through and how I see my life.

 

 

I don't know what amounts to success, obviously to others it's different. I do view my sons birth as a success for myself and my wife and if others do too than I thank you for your kind words/well wishes.

 

If you don't think it's a success then fair enough that's you, while some might say "anyone can have a child" others can also say "maybe so, but perhaps not everyone should have child", (there's some bad parents out there, I've seen a few and some very disturbing, including one mother who threw her new born into a bin near one of my relatives house. Lucky for the baby it was saved and adpoted by friends of my relatives)

 

But I do find it a little irritating (possibly offensive) to have someone suggest that I am "failing at life" because I/We had a baby and started a family.

[nightwolf]

So you define success by how unlikely you yourself are to achieve it, even if it's something you say you have no interest in achieving?

 

No, perhaps a poor choice in wording there, it was more congratulation Mokong for doing something they wanted to/made them happy! Just because I don't believe having a child/marriage a good thing doesn't mean other people shouldn't be happy to do so and want to do so. I apologise for my poor sentence there! edit: Besides I have no clue about Mokong's life! So that'd be very silly indeed to insult them so.

 

Besides success is and always has been subjective, my life is grittled at because I do not want children or a husband, others get the same for the opposite. It is the way of the world, not everyone is going to have the same view.

 

..and also success is the wrong word, success is to me like winning a trophy and Mokong isn't a competitor! He is a husband and father. and for that it should be deemed as only the best of things, just like not having a child and a husband/wife with a good life should be, neither are the same, but they seem very different right now and for that I am happy, because it means I can be just as happy not having a child or being a wife. Because yes it is something I wish I could think about having, but for various reasons I don't ever want to mention I don't see that happening!

 

I felt I had to come here and justify myself to you when I quite frankly only joined in the debate about whether one ''should or should not have children'' as it is and always will be a something that irks me, I never see myself having a child, a family, for that I do get questions, people doubting my life. So I joined in the debate.

 

I hope dannyboy - that answers your questions.

[Eenuh]

Mokong: try not to take things too personal. I think O_W was more saying what he deems to be success in life. For him marrying and having a child at an early age (though 27 isn't early really) wouldn't work, as he'd feel trapped I guess. Doesn't mean it's that way for everyone.

 

Like I said, everyone has different goals. I don't see myself getting married or having children anytime soon, but that's because I'll be 26 soon and still in education heh. Everyone lives life at their own pace and rhythm, with their own wishes and needs. It's a bit silly to compare each others lives to one another.

 

 

I do have to say though I love the women of N-E. Makes me feel less lonely in my way of thinking regarding kids and marriage haha.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Eenuh

[Raining_again]

I think achievements might be.... subjective. Not everyone feels that having children is an achievement, same as perhaps career advancement doesn't appeal to others. Or anything for that matter. Different strokes for different folks

 

I really do hate how people here do bang on about marriage and children, so I can see Oxi's point. (although my opinion is probably not as extreme)

[Oxigen_Waste]

What the hell's a thrip??

 

They are not small at all.

 

0,003%? I'll take a chance, lol.

 

I just wanna say that i hate how society gives you a pat on the back for having children. And i don't think it's any sort of yardstick for success whatsoever. Anyone can do it. The world is grossly overpopulated, for society to encourage or back pat anyone for having children is sick. People should instead be encouraged to adopt, and reduce an already existing number of unwanted kiddies, and plus maybe grow a little themselves by learning to love a kiddie that's not yours, as if it was yours. But instead it's made ridiculously difficult to adopt.

 

I'm not saying demonize someone for having children, but for society to actively encourage it is reeeal sick! It's like society cannibalising itself! Yuk.

 

On a more intimate scale, i can see how having sprogs would make you happy, and why your friends would coo over you, etc, etc. But society shouldn't be encouraging it.

 

Marriage, i can see how there is some success involved there (assuming it's a happy one), because you've made a long term relationship work. But it's the making it work that's the success bit, not the actual marriage - that's just a convention.

 

Hmmm, personally i've not much interest in following the traditional paths in life. Why would i. I just want to experiment and try and find out what makes me happy. Finding it quite difficult to do this experimenting though, due to £££ restraints, and lack of decent friends.

 

I just think success is subjective. Maybe you're one of those weird people that are scared of beans and you eat beans on toast one day and that's success to you.

 

Fuck woman, you just won me over. Where do I have to sign to enlist your fanbase?

 

Also, since it's hanging around so much, the marriage thing, fuck marriage, marriage is an idea, if you can make the idea work, it's all you need.

 

 

But I do take issue with some of the things Oxigen said, his post reads like he might as well of started with

 

"I mean no disrespect but...."

 

And the bits where you try to say "dont be offended" sound like you only put it in there to try and justify yourself.

 

 

Was affraid you'd take it personally. Anyway, don't feel so insulted, this wasn't a stab at you, you just sparked the discussion and in the process became the scapegoat for a whole generation of the ambition deprived.

To make it very clear, your "story" merely reminded me of that old tale of woe I keep hearing time and again, purely based on a hunch and the discussion sparked from there on a pure hypothesis (which was obviously completely off topic).

 

And I did mean no disrespect. Take solace in knowing that if I did, I'd have been adamant about it, I'm not an apologetic individual. I nurture a liking of your whole online persona and have nothing against you, I just think you made some bad choices. But alas, success is indeed as subjective a notion as they come. And I was merely expressing my own.

 

Holy shit, I get more eloquent when tipsy! Ah!

 

Exactly, you don't know anything about me, while the people here who had voted for me do know stuff about me. So where do you come off trying to judge me based on the standards/theories you set for yourself.

 

If you know nothing about me what makes you think I'm just having a kid to add "excitement". As for slowing me down, if anything it'll speed me up. I have no lack of ambition and not pretty much accomodated in my way of life. I do enjoy my life as it is, if I can achieve more then fair play, if not it's not going to bother me. But my son is not just here to "spice things up".

 

Well, after all that apologizing and reassuring I gave you up there, I just read the whole rest of your post and now I feel like it was for nothing. You're exactly what I assumed you were on impulse. oO No offence, really, but that seemed like a lot of unncessary rage from you. Okay then, let's take this slow...

 

Again, I wasn't judging you, I was judging what I thought you represented. But it turns out I was right in my hunch.

 

Nobody likes being reduced to a stereotype/archetype, but in the end we all fit one.

 

You say you have no lack of ambition and then say that it's not gonna bother you if you can't achieve more. That's compromising. I can't even think of a metaphor that surpasses the reality you just confirmed.

 

Also, you know perfectly well what I mean by excitement. You made your child your next objective/goal in life. Suddenly, something to concentrate all you energy on manifests itself, and it fits, so why not? Children should be a consequence of living, not a driving force in life.

 

Higher Education: well I didn't go to college or University after finishing secondary school. I went straight into working. It wasn't the best of jobs but it was a wage. But you know at that stage I wasn't all that concerned much anyway. Hell if you had told me then that by 2011 I'd be married with a child I wouldn't believe you as I had no intentions of doing any of that at that time. After meeting Joy who would be my future wife things changed, for the better I would say.

I did go back into education, I did it for her and for us, I likely wouldn't have other wise.

I finished top of my class too and did so well at the office where I did work expereince that they hired me as soon as my exams finished long before I even got the results.

 

Kudos. Much respect for that one, really.

 

But in the end you kind of lost me again. You finish top of your class in a course, and you settle for the first thing that gets thrown at you even before the offers came in (as the exam results weren't processed yet)??? You see, to me, that's settling. Accepting whatever gets thrown at you. You finish top and don't explore option? Again, how unamabitious is that, Mokong???? This isn't even funny.

 

Also... every step of the way, keep reminding yourself, I DO NOT have grudge against you or anything against you, I actually think you're quite the cool cat, it's just we have very different life philosophies. So I sincerely hope you're not insulted, I'm just working off what you gave me.

 

Seeing the World: I've done my fair share of travelling throughout my life. I don't think there's been a year in the last 10 or 12 where I haven't been abroad. While most trips have been to the Philippines, I have been to other places too, and I do intend to go to many others in the future. Having a wife and child will not prevent me from doing that as she wants to travel too and I'm not going deny my son the chance to see different places either. Actually I've done more travelling within the Philippines itself to different parts and seen more of it than my own mother has, and she grew up there.

Hell my previous job was in travel and I got the opputunity to go visit a few places for work, even got to fly in Bussiness Class (that's certainly something marked off my "things to do" list)

 

Ah, I think you misunderstood me there. When I said see the world, I meant seeing the world, not tourism. I mean actually putting yourself out there and living according to where you are. Not the cushy experience you're speaking of. You see, your idea of travel differs greatly from mine. 2 years ago backpacking across Europe, only twice did I sleep at a hostel or similar, just putting yourself right in the middle of life, making acquaintances every night, sleeping on someone's sofa here, someone's floor there. You know, the true meaning of traveling, not looking at foreign places through a plastic dome.

And excuse me for saying so, but with that type of travelling, it's irresponsible to bring a child along.

 

I'm not dwarfing your travels, your Filipino culture is awesome, it shows you really took your time getting to know that country intricately. But I think that's not the type of thing you'd go through with a family, right? It's a shame it's an island, I'd really like to get to know Manila.

 

Anyway, as nice as candlelight dinner in Vienna is, my type of traveling is more along the lines of skydiving and getting close to the people.

 

And I'd say bringing life into the world would count as "changing a tiny bit of it", I certainly am not "just breathing" and I can assure you I "feel alive" every day. The day my son was born I would actually consider one of the "most alive feeling" days of my life.

 

Sorry, no... I meant change it for the better, try to solve some problems. Having a kid doesn't really do anything.

 

The whole alive or just breathing (KSE!!!!!) thing was me being a tit, not directed at you at all. Anyway, what I meant was experience true thrills. Life changing experiences... you ever see an active volcano? That type of thing! Not just enjoying life, but pushing it to the limit. Although I imagine it must be quite something to witness the birth of your child, and that's something that can't be downplayed at all. Congrats!

 

Joy and I have been together for almost 8 years now, married for a year. There's been nothing rushed about this relationship and we planned to have a baby. We could have had one sooner but unfortunately we had a misscarriage last year so to have a baby now is to us a great success and celebration. As for getting married or having kids young (I'm 27 btw) we discussed it and both prefered to have a baby now rather than waiting. Some like to wait others don't. We wanted a child so why wait till we're in our 30's. I'd rather be just nearing my 50's when my boy hits 20 rather than closer to 60 or more.

 

Now, you can't tell me with a straight face that having kids doesn't slow you down, of course it does, it's a universal truth, you have to give up a lot in order to raise a child, don't you make it sound like there's no sacrifices. It gets in the way of pretty much everything!

 

And telling me you actually planned for such a halt when you were 25/26 makes me think that yes, you either:

 

A - gave up a lot of things for the sake of a happier family.

 

B - really didn't have that much planned and didn't mind starting a family.

 

And since you planned the child and keep telling me it hasn't slowed you down, I'm guessing B.

 

Some like to wait others don't. We wanted a child so why wait till we're in our 30's. - Fair enough, to each his own. : peace:

 

Joy and I have been through a lot together, not least of all a half way round the world long distance relationship, that nobody thought we could survive and make work. Yet we did dispite all the odds. You want to measure "success" by money, while I would in no ways consider myself "rich" I had worked hard and also had enough money to be able to afford to jet off to her once a year, staying for anywhere from 4 weeks to 10weeks at a time, every year before the wedding and her moving here. I've never had to take out a loan and I've never been in dept to anyone. My father would be someone who likes to "stay still however" he never brought my mother on holiday anywhere other than the Philippines so she could visit her family. And even then he'd only bring her as far as her hometown, wouldn't bring anywhere different to see anything new. Over the past few years I've bought my mother some holidays and sent her to some places she's always wanted to see. To me that would be a success.

 

Congrats on making love work, brother! Honestly!

 

But you're reading me wrong if you think this is about money! The only time I mentioned money was when I said I needed monetary stability before I brought a child into this world. And I'm sorry to say, if you disagree with me there, then I'm not even gonna bother anymore.

 

Also, congrats for making you mother a happier person. True value, there.

But it's beyond the point really, isn't it?

 

You say settling down and starting a family will have "slowed me down" but to me it's the opposite, had I not met Joy I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have done or seen any of the things that I have over the last few years. And having a son now is only going to help push me further in the future.

 

Sure, I get that she motivated you. That's awesome. What I don't get is why settle down immediatly after? Why not explore your options with her before settling.

I still think it's stupid to have kids that early. That's my opinion, sue me...

 

Also, exactly how is having a son at 27 going to help push you into the future?

 

I'm not trying to suggest I'm perfect or better than anyone else, i'm not, this is just what I've been through and how I see my life.

 

I don't know what amounts to success, obviously to others it's different. I do view my sons birth as a success for myself and my wife and if others do too than I thank you for your kind words/well wishes.

 

If you don't think it's a success then fair enough that's you, while some might say "anyone can have a child" others can also say "maybe so, but perhaps not everyone should have child", (there's some bad parents out there, I've seen a few and some very disturbing, including one mother who threw her new born into a bin near one of my relatives house. Lucky for the baby it was saved and adpoted by friends of my relatives)

 

I don't think it's a success, no, and don't bring bad parenting into this. Unrelated and circumstancial.

 

I don't believe it's a succcess. I don't believe there are almost 7 billion successes (since everyone has to get born at some point) walking around out there. Especially since 50% of those successes live below the poverty threshold. And I think it's arrogant to think you're ready to bring a child into the world at such a young age. You're 3 years older than me and you decided to have a baby 2 years ago. Which means I'm about the same age you were when you decided to have a kid... and no, I don't think it's fair for me to bring a kid into this world. There's so much I still have to learn myself, what gives me the autority to start teaching? I really think parenting should be a monitored experience... as marxist as I am, I defend that facistoid belief. It bewilds me that you need to take test to do every thing from donating blood to driving a car, but no explanations are demanded of you for having a kid.

 

Anywho, I'm rambling on... None of this is personal, you know. :awesome:

 

It's just a clash of opinions, a respectful one, from my behalf.

[Pancake]

Fuck woman, you just won me over. Where do I have to sign to enlist your fanbase?

 

Also, since it's hanging around so much, the marriage thing, fuck marriage, marriage is an idea, if you can make the idea work, it's all you need.

 

Oh so now you don't reckon i've been munching on stupid pills!

[Ashley]

Thrip = thread rip.

 

I think the only way this can come to any sort of conclusion is if we check back in in 2050. So...thread close until then?

[nightwolf]

Thrip = thread rip.

 

I think the only way this can come to any sort of conclusion is if we check back in in 2050. So...thread close until then?

 

That's a shame, the actual point of whether one deems having children or getting married something they should do, is an interesting debate, unless it is made into an entirely new thread?

 

edit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-10786279

 

Something I saw online just now. Interesting.

Edited December 18, 2010 by nightwolf

[McPhee]

I'm not so sure it's a matter of success, more one of life fulfillment. If bringing up a family helps you achieve a full life then that's the important thing.

 

It's actually quite a scary thing to think about. I haven't planned to get married or have kids, but then if I think forward to when I'm 50 do I really want to be alone? If I compare my dad's life to his sister' then is certainly looks a lot warmer and more appealing (she never got married or had kids). I'm in no position to think seriously about either right now though, my life is unlikely to settle until I'm past 30 and building my own restaurant/deli.

[Daft]

Success is in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

...or some shit like that.

[Captain Falcon]

If anything, I'd personally say he's failing at life for slowing himself down with kids at such a young age.

 

Mokong: try not to take things too personal.

 

I'm sorry Eenuh but it's difficult not to take something like that personal when his name has been brought up directly and then he's accused of "failing at life".

 

If that were aimed at me, I'm not sure I would have been quite as contained as Mokong in my response because it was nothing more than another forum member once again trying to prove their superiority over someone else by belittling their life and achievements because they don't match theirs.

 

Maybe I'm doing the same in my response but after reading that, I felt compelled to say something. I can't honestly say I've read a post that has annoyed as much as that one has... and people on here do post an alarming amount of rubbish at times.