Dog-amoto Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 Apologies if old Bill Trinen speaks. Worth watching just for his facial expressions!
James McGeachie Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) I'm not sure if Wii Sports Resort style bow aiming is a step forward or step back. Does it feel more like aiming a real bow? Yes, kind of...but the nunchuk's lack of motionplus technology stops it from actually adding any extra gameplay depth. You can't adjust the tension of the string, it's either pulled back, or it's not. The nunchuk can't tell its position in relation to the remote, it just knows it's being moved back. All it'll really add is more frustration. Being able to adjust the tension of the string would add a lot of new depth to using a bow though. You could actually properly control the arch of the arrow. It would give them a reason to add in features too like arrow physics, for example, aiming an arrow into the air, having it arch downwards and fall upon an enemy's head, like shooting someone from over a high wall. This is where I regret that the Motionplus' abilities don't match move. Edited June 25, 2010 by James McGeachie
Cube Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 This is where I regret that the Motionplus' abilities don't match move. Huh? The Move posters show that you need two Move controllers to play Archery. And I'm pretty sure you can adjust the tension/strength in Resort with the Nunchuck.
James McGeachie Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 Huh? The Move posters show that you need two Move controllers to play Archery. And I'm pretty sure you can adjust the tension/strength in Resort with the Nunchuck. Yes, you need two move controllers...I never debated that? How is that relevant? It was mentioned in previews you can adjust string tension, etc. But there is no way to play any Wii game with 2 motion plus controllers, or at least not with any analogue stick in use, so to play a game like Zelda, you need to be using the nunchuk. Also you definitely can't in wii sports resort. When you click Z the string automatically starts getting pulled back "slowly" and all moving your hand does is bring it back to maximum tension instantly.
Nolan Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 You say Motion Plus doesn't match move, and he was confused by that making mention of needing two move controllers to do what he though could be done with a single M+ and nunchuk.
James McGeachie Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 (edited) Right but my post wasn't focused on the superiority of Move anyway, more on the limitations of the Wiimotionplus and Nunchuk combination. I don't even like the fact that Move exists, but I can't deny that the motion gameplay potential is higher. Anyway my entire point was just that Bill Trinen highlights the aiming being movement based rather than pointer, where as I'd argue that without reaching the full motion potential of being able to control string tension, Wii Sports Resort style aiming would be more annoying in a Zelda game and the pointer stuff from TP would probably be better. It's fine in Wii Sports Resort for you know, its use in that game as a sport and the way wind works at least adds some depth in that. In Zelda though, the idea of switching to that position everytime I want to shoot an arrow, WITHOUT it adding any extra gameplay depth, is annoying. Edited June 27, 2010 by James McGeachie
Grazza Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 James is right. This isn't about saying "Sony is better", it's just about suggesting the optimum configuration possible on the Wii.
S.C.G Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 What I want to know is, will you still be able to use arrows in third person, y'know... OOT style via Z-targetting? if you can't then I can see using the bow becoming annoying because sometimes you don't always want to be in first-person view if you just want to quickly notch loose a couple of arrows into a Bokoblin's face before dealing the final satisfying death blow with the sword.
yesteryeargames Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Move is a load of TAT, copy nintendo with no new ideas really, waste of money and time sony,, back on track , i think there will be a lock on system for arrows when riding a horse?
Serebii Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Yes, you need two move controllers...I never debated that? How is that relevant? It was mentioned in previews you can adjust string tension, etc. But there is no way to play any Wii game with 2 motion plus controllers, or at least not with any analogue stick in use, so to play a game like Zelda, you need to be using the nunchuk. Also you definitely can't in wii sports resort. When you click Z the string automatically starts getting pulled back "slowly" and all moving your hand does is bring it back to maximum tension instantly. That's not how it worked at all. Move and WMP is identical in capability. The only difference is how the console handles depth calculations. With the Wiimote, it's done through triangulation from the two points on the sensor bar and the IR pointer in the Wii. On Move, it's done by camera. Their motion capabilities however are identical
Grazza Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 That's not how it worked at all. Move and WMP is identical in capability. The only difference is how the console handles depth calculations. With the Wiimote, it's done through triangulation from the two points on the sensor bar and the IR pointer in the Wii. On Move, it's done by camera. Their motion capabilities however are identical MotionPlus is great, but the point is that the Nunchuk doesn't have the abilities of either Move or MotionPlus.
Goron_3 Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 I didn't think Move's "Nunchuk" did either. Well you've got another Move controller to use which will obviously be better than the nunchuk.
D_prOdigy Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 But then Move on its own doesn't have an analogue stick or D-pad, so that set-up would be pretty useless for a substantial game like Zelda. #pointlessarguments
Emasher Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Well you've got another Move controller to use which will obviously be better than the nunchuk. But then Move on its own doesn't have an analogue stick or D-pad, so that set-up would be pretty useless for a substantial game like Zelda. #pointlessarguments I couldn't have said it better myself. Besides, you can always use two Wii remotes with Motion Plus, not only that, but Wii remotes have d-pads.
Cube Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 But then Move on its own doesn't have an analogue stick or D-pad, so that set-up would be pretty useless for a substantial game like Zelda. #pointlessarguments That's exactly why I was confused by the statement. Anyway, if these motion controls don't impact combat then they'll be fine for when you need to do accurate puzzle-based stuff.
Supercube Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 I've never encountered a situation in Zelda TP where I had to quickly use the bow as opposed to a more convenient form of attack. In that game, it was always possible to pick off enemies from a fair distance away without any of them noticing...much like in the Crossbow game. Therefore, there shouldn't be any situation where you need to in Skyward Sword, meaning that you should be able to get used to the new method without it causing any major problems with enemies attacking you or getting away before you are ready. The bow string always ended up fully pulled back in TP and Wii Sports Resort anyway, if you wanted it to be or not, to get the required result, so the fact that there is no motion plus in the nunchuck is irrelevant for this purpose.
Grazza Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 The point is there is no benefit in using motion control for archery until the controller in each hand has more versatility, but if you lot want to ignore that and turn it into Sony vs Nintendo, fine, there's nothing more I can do to explain it!
Nintendohnut Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 The point is there is no benefit in using motion control for archery until the controller in each hand has more versatility, but if you lot want to ignore that and turn it into Sony vs Nintendo, fine, there's nothing more I can do to explain it! I think people have accepted the point that with two Move controllers the archery on PS3 is more accurate than in Sports Resort... however, you need to see the point that they are making too; you couldn't play Zelda with two Move controllers because they don't have D pads or 3D sticks (only the extra Move controller, whatever that is called, has those things, and that doesn't have the motion sensing abilities of the Move either, like the Wii Nunchuk). So although your point is right about archery alone, it wouldn't work with Zelda.
Grazza Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 I think people have accepted the point that with two Move controllers the archery on PS3 is more accurate than in Sports Resort... however, you need to see the point that they are making too; you couldn't play Zelda with two Move controllers because they don't have D pads or 3D sticks (only the extra Move controller, whatever that is called, has those things, and that doesn't have the motion sensing abilities of the Move either, like the Wii Nunchuk). So although your point is right about archery alone, it wouldn't work with Zelda. Thanks for trying to explain it, but I don't want to play Zelda with Move, I just want to use pointing. Actually, I want to use a GameCube pad, but that's another matter.
James McGeachie Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Yeah all I was getting at (tried to use bold to bring this out too but I guess people would rather focus on other things) is that if it's not actually adding anything over the pointer gameplay, they shouldn't be using the Wii Sports Resort style aiming in Zelda, as I expect it to detract more from the experience than enhance it. Actually, I want to use a GameCube pad, but that's another matter. I don't want this though. :| The only reason I even care about this game is the Wiimotionplus gameplay.
Serebii Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 Let's just hope they do have a pointer option for the Bow. I mean they had a traditional bow aiming option in TP so it's not that much of a stretch
dazzybee Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 Archery in wii sports resort is amazing and that style being in Zelda turns me on. What turns me in more though is bowling bombs into tight spaces...does anyone know if you can add curl? This will be amazing. I can already see a mini game in the inevitable castle town where you have to blow stuff up behind a wall by bowling bombs through gaps. Going to be amazing!
Fused King Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 Archery in wii sports resort is amazing and that style being in Zelda turns me on. What turns me in more though is bowling bombs into tight spaces...does anyone know if you can add curl? This will be amazing. I can already see a mini game in the inevitable castle town where you have to blow stuff up behind a wall by bowling bombs through gaps. Going to be amazing! Yes, we'll basically get Wii Sports Resorts as mini-games, but within the boundaries of the Zelda universe of course, would be classic. That'd be the foundation of course, for I'm sure the team woking on it have come up with more +fun:)
Ronnie Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 Archery in TP on the Wii was fast, accurate and effective. Nintendo talk about not letting technology get in the way of the gaming experience, I just worry that's exactly what's going to happen with archery in SS.
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