Roostophe Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 The book wasn't very good. Haha, I just knew it was going to be you who would say that. Okay then. The best answer is definitely either "Ask Tolkien." or "Fuck off." :awesome: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 21, 2008 Author Share Posted December 21, 2008 Haha, I just knew it was going to be you who would say that. Okay then. The best answer is definitely either "Ask Tolkien." or "Fuck off." :awesome: I'm remixing that into one phrase: "Ask Tolkien to fuck off" GENIUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the great Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Oh oh oooh I thought of the most obvious one - in LOTR why didn't they use that flying thing to drop the ring into the magma? No? ok i'll get my coat. best reason i can think of is that the eagles came in a chatoic, desperate moment. its like a calvery charge. do it against an organised, expecting army and you are in for problems, but do it on the rear flanks, hit dissorganised and un expecting enemys and they are easier to panic/confuse. see the nazgul that was attacking the men, it was side swiped unexpectedly by the eagle, panic and confusion ensued. had the eagles just flown in with the ring from the start, with no diversion then they would have been detected and most likley killed. still, id fancy their chances more then a barefoot midget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 The book wasn't very good. Thankyou. At last someone else in the world who isn't utterly convinced that the Bored of the Rings Trilogy is the best thing since ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 It's quite a good book, but nothing too good. It's quite amazing how much work he went through to write it and he should always be revered as a creating authority as he pretty much invented the modern concept of medieval fantasy, but in the end his biggest mistake is that there's virtually no message in his writings. They're elaborate stories that go nowhere (of course there's some messages, like the cooperation of different races and so on, but no main focus). His body of work is very beautifull, creative and quite intricate, but litterally hollow. He was a work-driven writter, not a talent driven one, and it shows. I still love the guy and LOTR will always have a spot in my shelf, but he's no Hemingway or Faulkner. I mean, I'm currently reading Twain's Adventures Of Tom Sawyer and Golding's Lord Of The Flies, and while neither has Tolkien's flair, it's quite clear that Tolkien's the one who's missing something... I guess that's why he never even got consideread for a Nobel. Ah well... still a great storyteller, just not that talented an artist. : peace: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 My beef is that while it is the archetypal fantasy novel, it has been eclipsed by virtually everything since. The Belgariad, for example is a much more interesting read. The sad truth is, almost all the books that have followed on from this are simple rehashes of the same plot. But the good ones don't make you realise it until the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 Thankyou. At last someone else in the world who isn't utterly convinced that the Bored of the Rings Trilogy is the best thing since ever. Wasn't a bad book. It's quite a good book, but nothing too good. It's quite amazing how much work he went through to write it and he should always be revered as a creating authority as he pretty much invented the modern concept of medieval fantasy, but in the end his biggest mistake is that there's virtually no message in his writings. They're elaborate stories that go nowhere (of course there's some messages, like the cooperation of different races and so on, but no main focus). His body of work is very beautifull, creative and quite intricate, but litterally hollow. He was a work-driven writter, not a talent driven one, and it shows. I still love the guy and LOTR will always have a spot in my shelf, but he's no Hemingway or Faulkner. I mean, I'm currently reading Twain's Adventures Of Tom Sawyer and Golding's Lord Of The Flies, and while neither has Tolkien's flair, it's quite clear that Tolkien's the one who's missing something... I guess that's why he never even got consideread for a Nobel. Ah well... still a great storyteller, just not that talented an artist. : peace: I'm glad there isn't messages in all stories, it cuts the subtle "Teamwork works" etc bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Oh oh oooh I thought of the most obvious one - in LOTR why didn't they use that flying thing to drop the ring into the magma? No? ok i'll get my coat. Sauron's a huge fucking eye. He would have seen them and like, looked them out of the sky or something. Or the wraith on the dragon would have done it. Wasn't a bad book. I've got that book. I got bored after a few pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Wasn't a bad book. It was more entertaining than the real thing ( a bit like masturbation at times ) but it got a little tired towards the end ( a lot like masturbation ) and it was a weak effort in parts but ultimately satisfying when it was finished (totally like masturbation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the great Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 well, i find the book gets dull in places, but found it rather a good read. the biggest flaw i could say is that the book never seems to know where to go, and seems a little soft handed. a point in the book makes you think pippin has died. i was utterly crushed, but when he was healed, it felt kinda a cop out. his death would have been so meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I can't see how Tolkien wasn't talented as an artist, I mean, the things you described alone make him a talented artist. And I resent that books or anything else for that matter need to have a lot of deep messages. I really hate that in fact, a story needs to do what it sets out to do, it doesn't fail because of a lack of message. Even though Lotr has some messages, parallelism with religion, industrialism, maybe nothing too deep or that jumps out, but it wasn't meant to. Considering it pioneered so much, it's so well written, so detailed and the world is so alive, I can only have respect for an author that does something like this and doesn't need to go the way of a story filled with symbolisms and messages all over the place. Specially when lots of authors seems to use a story as an excuse to convey a message and it becomes too aparent when you just feel like you're not reading a story at all, you're hearing the author's "propaganda". Which is awesome sometimes, but not by any means mandatory. What I mean is if you're looking for message in a book, OK this or that is not for you, but can it fall short in a more objective manner (if that is even possible) because of it? No. That and there's the people who really like to bash on things that are uber famous. Which I know isnt the case here. Well, maybe EEVIL. Maybe. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 I can't see how Tolkien wasn't talented as an artist, I mean, the things you described alone make him a talented artist. He's an excellent "spectator" of the world he created, but his work falls more in the cathegory of history book than it does in that of literature. Is he an artist? No doubt he is! But his strenghts are more of a journalist's than a writer. And I resent that books or anything else for that matter need to have a lot of deep messages. I really hate that in fact, a story needs to do what it sets out to do, it doesn't fail because of a lack of message. Even though Lotr has some messages, parallelism with religion, industrialism, maybe nothing too deep or that jumps out, but it wasn't meant to. Considering it pioneered so much, it's so well written, so detailed and the world is so alive, I can only have respect for an author that does something like this and doesn't need to go the way of a story filled with symbolisms and messages all over the place. Specially when lots of authors seems to use a story as an excuse to convey a message and it becomes too aparent when you just feel like you're not reading a story at all, you're hearing the author's "propaganda". Which is awesome sometimes, but not by any means mandatory. It doesn't "need" to have a message, in fact, LOTR is one of the best examples of how something can still be good without having a profound message or whatever, but LOTR will never reach the heights of A Farewell To Arms or One Hundred Years of Solitude, precisely because it lacks a message, rendering itself meaningless, because if there's no point for it to exist, it becomes redundant, and ultimately, trivial... it's not so much art as it is entertainment. Well, that, and because the LOTR story is pretty much stale. It has great characters and indeed, it's world is completely unique and becomes very much alive, but the main narrative is pretty much the same "good triumphs over evil due to unity, sacrifice and preserverance" story that's been pushed for the last 5 centuries, except this time, it was set in a fantasy setting. And then there's the fact that Tolkien writes like a journalist and everything is shown to the writer as if it were a report. He lacks quirks. However, the thing I like most about Tolkien is that he knows he's no "artist", and he's very unpretentious and knows very well how to play to his own strenghts and LOTR's characters and overall setting turn what would've been an otherwise unmemorable experience into one of the most thrilling adventure rides ever written! The reason I love Tolkien is because he's a beast that's driven by hard work, instead of talent! He's a statement to everyone who isn't born talented... if you work hard enough and know how to play your cards just right... you'll make it! Preserverance is his main message, and that one, he delivers with quite a punch. In other news, I think that it's not that he didn't need to go the way of a story filled with symbolisms and messages all over the place as much as it was that he couldn't. He did his best, but that was his limit. Considering this was 50 years ago and here we are talking about him, I'd say his best was more than enough! LOTR. Remarkable book. It'd easily be in the best 250 books ever written, but I doubt it'd crack the top 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 The prophecy in Star Wars Episode 1. If the force is balanced heavily towards the Jedi, then someone who brings balance to it would be really, really bad for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shorty Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Oh oh oooh I thought of the most obvious one - in LOTR why didn't they use that flying thing to drop the ring into the magma? No? ok i'll get my coat.I'm sure you've seen this before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patch Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 You've read the book, but have you played the (Speccy) game? [ATTACH]2419[/ATTACH][ATTACH]2420[/ATTACH] Er, no. Neither have I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 The prophecy in Star Wars Episode 1. If the force is balanced heavily towards the Jedi, then someone who brings balance to it would be really, really bad for them. Lucas has mentioned himself that the Light Side represents balance, the Dark Side chaos. Yes, it isn't really the standard view of balance, and yes, it could have easily been understood the way that Anakin would even out the Jedi and Sith - but he didn't. Initially the Sith became stronger, throwing the galaxy into turmoil, but in the end the Jedi triumphed. Later on the Dark Side regained strength if I'm not mistaken, though I'm not that familiar with that part of the EU. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 That and there's the people who really like to bash on things that are uber famous. Which I know isnt the case here. Well, maybe EEVIL. Maybe. :P You make it sound as if I do it only because it's famous. I do not! I bash it because I found the book uber shit. On the mention of this, I have a question of the movies. No doubt I wasn't paying attention: Sauron seems quite the badass, but some chap lops off this ring finger and he practically dies. They say his life is bound to the ring, that's why it must be destroyed blah blah. So, how much of a badass/pansy was he before he made the rings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Hundred Years of Solitude = Win. Bu LOTR not havinga message? I don't think that's quite true. Written between/during thw world wars by an author so very typically aggrovated with the loss of rural life and the inevitable 'decline' that urbanisation brings. Loss of innocence, rite of passage into adulthood, racism, good vs evil... yaddah yaddah yah. Why isn't there a message? The message is "change sucks, but it is inevitable" maybe? I don't think it is a lack of a message, more just that there isn't anything new being said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Hundred Years of Solitude = Win. Bu LOTR not havinga message? I don't think that's quite true. Written between/during thw world wars by an author so very typically aggrovated with the loss of rural life and the inevitable 'decline' that urbanisation brings. Loss of innocence, rite of passage into adulthood, racism, good vs evil... yaddah yaddah yah. Why isn't there a message? The message is "change sucks, but it is inevitable" maybe? I don't think it is a lack of a message, more just that there isn't anything new being said. I never said there weren't messages, cause there are, I just said it lacks a crucial message. There's nothing poignant being presented, no central point. Also, it's not so much that it's inevitable, as much as it is that you can come to terms with it. Change may happen, but it's something you'll learn to live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mundi Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! I just had too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 So, how much of a badass/pansy was he before he made the rings? He was an angel who helped build Middle Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chairdriver Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! I just had too. Wasn't he exiled from his home planet or something? Besides, he probably loves the feeling of being best friends with Ewoks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! They don't need to get on their knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 He was an angel who helped build Middle Earth. And he got pimpsmacked by some bloke who chopped off some fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 And he got pimpsmacked by some bloke who chopped off some fingers. I think it's because he'd put his life into the ring. So when the ring was removed he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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