killthenet Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 American Beauty A film I liked when I first saw it, but it gets worse everytime I see it. It's a little overblown and was completely improved upon by Adam and Joe's American Beautoy And the plates! The plates symbolise Lester breaking apart. Waking Life One of my favourite films, so it's a little pointless me talking about it. Anybody who enjoyed it though should check out Linklater's earlier film Slacker which is almost as good.
jayseven Posted December 18, 2008 Author Posted December 18, 2008 Wahey, some people watched it Glad to hear that killthenet, I've been meaning to check out some of his other movies so I'll try that first. Daniel; It's not going to be liked by everyone, but I'm pretty glad you at least gave it a go. For me, there are two sections which are hard to follow - the bit with the four guys (then the old man up the telephone mast) and the bit with the boy/alien, as he just talks fast. Also the latter part of the movie, starting with the main kid asking the girl what it's like to be a character in a dream, felt ill placed or ill paced. We'd just had a nice, happy bunch of stuff on holy moments and presentness then it was all a bit down and dreary from there. The animation, too, wasn't as strong. Oddest thing is I've just had a few hours sleep and I had a lucid dream/nightmare. I kept waking up, sometimes even in my own bed, or someone elses, or a bed I've slept in, then walking around and seeing people, faces, movements out of the corners of my eye that I couldn't reach. People were oddly nice to me, and I kept realising that I wasn't awake. I'd punch people and they'd stop being nice and start laughing and being all devil-like and saying I'll never escape, then they'd turn into rotting, talking corpses with blood and maggots and whatever else... it went on for absolutely ages. Thought I was in hell. In the end I started to control my dream by making the people I'd find float off into the sky. I had to really convince myself to wake up. ... Yeah.
Ashley Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 Can we contribute to a (sharing of opinions?) if we don't do them all. Say if we've seen/read the text before can we still add to the discussion? Regardless im going to add this: "I didn't lose my job. It's not like "where did my job go?" I got fired!"
Supergrunch Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 So, I watached Waking Life, and liked it overall, despite taking issue with some of the philosophy. Humanity, communication and transience, eh? As a whole, I think it did come together, and the way the different viewpoints combined was done nicely. The dominating ideology seemed to be one where humans were the only significant things in the world, and this was perhaps reflected by the changing animation - they shape what happens. This also kind of fits in with the whole dream aspect, which seemed to conclude with the suggestion that life itself is a dream, perhaps collaborated by the alternate reading of the title as "Waking (from) Life." ("waking" as a present participle rather than a gerund, if you're interested) Observation also seemed to be explored a lot, perhaps as related to the communication between individuals, but to a certain extent this gave the film a degree of self-awareness that was something of a get-out clause at times. The other main problem I had was the way in which science is hapharzardly used to justify taking various angles, which is a problem in lots of this kind of thinking. For instance, the talk about linguistics was largely malformed, though the evolution theory was nevertheless fairly accurate and somewhat contemporary. I actually liked the way the speeches sometimes seemed "shoehorned" (as Dan put it) - it reminded me a lot of Murakami, especially Kafka on the Shore, where people spontaneously burst into philosophical conversations, not because this is natural, but because it emphatically isn't. Nonetheless, I agree with jayseven that some of the scenes were out of place either in terms of characters or themes, especially the bit with the four guys, but I liked the conversation with the girl where it was - it started the somewhat depressing spiral that the film used to conclude. Anyway, this film is endlessly analysable (in addition for instance, the concept of multiple levels is all over the place, and the contrast between diegetic and non-diegetic music was interesting), but I'd better wind down now and give other people a chance to speak.
Ganepark32 Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 Just finished watching Waking Life. It was strange but in an interesting way. The visual style definitely complemented the theme of lucidity in the film, as I don't think we would have gotten a good feel of what the guy was going through or we wouldn't have believed the areas where the talks of science and philosophy came because we would have seen them more of contrived and force conversations in a more realistic visage. I will say the movie did confuse me abit. The numerous aforementioned conversations that were sparked left me feeling very weird because you didn't really get a proper change to think much about what was being said and so I have no opinion on what was said as it just seemed to cluster all this ideology together instead of perhaps spreading it out more evenly, which would have allowed for a better understanding. The question of whether life is real or not came up quite a bit and I think they were trying to highlight that the line between real and dream is marginal and that we as people can't understand the difference (this specifically was alluded to at one point in that people can not differentiate between the real world and the dream one). For example, at several points in the film I was completely unable to tell whether the main character was dreaming or awake. At the end for example where he goes into the store and see the 'captain' and questions him about it. The fact that he questioned him about it would suggest he was awake, because he said earlier he couldn't recall any information about who he was and where he was from to the woman when he was asking her about being a character in a dream. I feel it questions whether, when he was hit by the car, he was awake at that moment and not just participating in a lucid dream. But then right at the end he floats away so it tells us his is/was dreaming so there's this confliction of views about whether he is or isn't awake created by the movie, as not only are we unsure of his state of being but so to is the movie. I do realise I'm probably speaking crap here. Just my opinion. Lucid dreaming is strange subject and a very complicated one to even discuss on a conversational level let along make it the theme of a movie. Look at Vanilla Sky. That tried to tackle the idea and made a right mess of it, purely because it was such a bad movie and it's ending just made me want to smash Tom Cruise's face in for making me waste however much time I did watching the damn thing. I think here they've done better but the extensive dialogue with these dream characters talking about these ideals wasn't an overly great inclusion as it detracted from the main character's struggle to understand what was going on and eventually wake up. While some of it was insightful to what he was going through and helpful in him understanding what he was going through, it just was layered on too thick.
jayseven Posted December 18, 2008 Author Posted December 18, 2008 Supergrunch; could you elaborate on the self-awareness being a 'get-out clause'? It's an interesting point, but I'm not totally sure I know what you mean! Would I be right to say that I thought the movie was modernist? The almost passive acceptance of clashing theories and interpretations of reality co-existing, and no real drive to pick any one 'correct' answer. I agree that observation is rather key, but I think the self-awareness comes from the function of interpretation - I think you cover that when you say ~"observation in relation to communication between individuals"... I also think 'interpretation' itself does provide a 'get-out clause' for the shakey levels of scientific accuracy, and excuses the films occasional "[insert philosophy] 101" feel, as if these brainheads are trying their best to explain these complex matters in the most layman terms they know. I think the reason why I dislike the ending of the movie is because for the large part the film simply doesn't care about storyline at all. Half of the segments aren't even directly related back to the main character - how do we explain that? ganepark; as far as teh film goes, we can safely say that from the moment the guy gets hit by a car to the end of the movie, he definitely isn't awake (in the traditional sense...) for all we know he was asleep the whole movie. Maybe he died when teh car hit. Maybe he's in a coma. Maybe the whole film is the girl from the train station's dream. You're right to say that this is a key point of the movie - the movie asks you what is reality? and you have to realise that it is a struggle to answer this. I hate typing about this film because my mind keeps jumping from thing to thing so I can't keep up. But yeah... uh... Don't do this right away, but defintely re-watch it again when you're in the mood. I think I've watched it once a year since I first saw it about... 4 years ago? Improves with every watch.
Ganepark32 Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 ^ yeh. When I was writing what I thought my mind was all over the place jumping to various happenings in the movie. Was hard to put something down and what I got down sounded like garbage. It's even screwed me up so much that I'm still thinking about and it hampered my writing of an article. But I'll definitely give it another watch through. Was very interesting. And hopefully I'll be able to pick up more on the various dialogues of the scientists, philosophers, etc. Offtopic: loving the name change. Baby jesus, lol.
Supergrunch Posted December 18, 2008 Posted December 18, 2008 Supergrunch; could you elaborate on the self-awareness being a 'get-out clause'? It's an interesting point, but I'm not totally sure I know what you mean! Would I be right to say that I thought the movie was modernist? The almost passive acceptance of clashing theories and interpretations of reality co-existing, and no real drive to pick any one 'correct' answer. I agree that observation is rather key, but I think the self-awareness comes from the function of interpretation - I think you cover that when you say ~"observation in relation to communication between individuals"... I also think 'interpretation' itself does provide a 'get-out clause' for the shakey levels of scientific accuracy, and excuses the films occasional "[insert philosophy] 101" feel, as if these brainheads are trying their best to explain these complex matters in the most layman terms they know. I think the reason why I dislike the ending of the movie is because for the large part the film simply doesn't care about storyline at all. Half of the segments aren't even directly related back to the main character - how do we explain that? Yes, that's pretty much what I meant by "get-out clause" - the level of self-awareness in the film is at times used as an excuse for unrealistic modes of exposition that otherwise might be harder to justify. But anyway, I see what you mean about the abrupt increase in narrative focus towards the end, although I think I preferred things that way as if nothing else the random occurrences seemed somewhat more driven. However, I still think the segements without the main character present fit in, providing you consider them to be a more extreme result of playing with observation and interpretation.
jayseven Posted December 18, 2008 Author Posted December 18, 2008 Oh for sure - those moments without the main character are probably my favourite ones. I like the angry man in the car, the devilish dude in the jail and the burning man, the man in the bar with the gun... Those moments properly challenge the rest of the movie and reassert the notion that we shouldn't take reality for granted in any way, shape or form. But as a movie I think the pacing struggled to steer the audience back to the main character at times, and as a movie it takes a while before you start to even realise he's the main character, let alone really start to wonder where his development is going. I'm glad several of you gave this film the chance it deserves; I hope y'all keep your minds extra-open for Koyaanisqatsi in a few months time
Nami Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Ok well I'll read everyone's opinion on this after I've spoke about it (sorry, it's just if I read anything about it, I'll forget what I wanted to say!) Waking Life Great experience watching this, it really makes you stop..................and think about your own existence! For me I enjoyed certain conversations and struggled with others, specifically the chat with the three people in a room about lucid dreams, the rocker guy talking about the lights being switch on was a fantastic idea, I could really relate to the point's he made! The ones I struggled I'd like to watch again to fully adsorb what they were saying, it's so much to take in in one viewing, I bet everyone felt that! The idea of giving it the unique look is great, I've not seen much work like that and I think it wouldn't work as well without it. The music added to the atmosphere perfectly and I luved the parts wher people played instruments, it just complimented the animation perfectly. I'll read your comments soon guys just ain't slept proper for a few days (since I saw this actually!) so too much to take in atm.
jayseven Posted December 21, 2008 Author Posted December 21, 2008 Well done to those who watched the movie. Those who couldn't be arsed; shame on you. This isn't just another excuse to watch a movie you liked, this is supposed to make you try new things. Having said that, this week we gotta try to watch The Fifth Element, a movie we should've all seen many a time. mmm... Mila...
Ganepark32 Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 urgh... The Fifth Element. Not what I'd call a great movie but I'll give it a watch again. Can't really remember much about it so it shows it left an impression on me.
MoogleViper Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 Just to let you know jay that I haven't dropped out of this. I've just had a lot on my mind recently. I'll pick it up again sometime after christmas hopefully. Might catch up on a few of the films as well.
Ellmeister Posted December 21, 2008 Posted December 21, 2008 Right I'm back from my holiday, just watched fifth element. I've seen bits of it before but watching it all together for the first time! It was good but not amazing. Quite an old film so some of it seemed a little erm 'cheesy'. Some of it was quite funny, but I didn't like the radio host (I can't remember his name right now) I've seen him in other movies and liked him but he just seemed too annoying for me in this film.
Nami Posted December 22, 2008 Posted December 22, 2008 Ok cool, I'll try and fit this one in over Christmas, I'm sure I will, I have seen this before a long while ago and it'll be interesting watching it again in a more critical way!!
Daniel Posted December 30, 2008 Posted December 30, 2008 Haven't had time to watch this film yet, been busy as Im sure most have. Should maybe put the date back a bit or move it in line with the book one. 1st of Jan I believe? Actually that's only like 2 more days. Maybe just add another week In other news i'm halfway through PREY good book so far, starting to get interesting!
jayseven Posted December 30, 2008 Author Posted December 30, 2008 I'm not adding any extra time/weeks :P I've no idea if we've got teh Fifth element in the flat, but I'll try watching it later. Next movie, batter up!
Rummy Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 Man, I feared what'd happen with this all did happen. I've gotten busy and fallen behind with things, so I'm skipping out on the commentary for American Beauty, as whilst I have it, I have yet to watch it. Waking Life, well...I watched it whilst really quite tired, and it just...I dunno, I guess I wasn't expecting that and on the whole at the time it made little sense to me. I found it hard to follow due to its lack of coherent and flowing narrative of sorts, plus the art style made me feel sleepy-er. It just seemed to be a collection of people talking, musing, which is well and good but I just wasn't prepared for it. I think however, that I will most certainly attempt to watch it again at some point. I've not had time to watch Fifth Element, though I have seen it a few times before. I may try to grab a day this week and sneak in both that and Leon, otherwise I'll skip watching it and talk from what I remember
Daniel Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Who read do androids dream of electric sheep then? I did Got into it and finished in like a week. Never seen blade runner so was a new concept to me. Really enjoyed the whole book and the whole artificial intelligence moral choices that seemed to appear. Reminded me a lot of A.I. with Will Smith. I now want an artificial animal though
Mundi Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 The artificial animals were my favorite part of the book because of the whole people didn't want an animal for the same reason we get animals it was a show off status in society. Also what did everyone else think about the image of androids in the book? In the book their shown as merciless and don´t hesitate to betray for their own survival but is that because of their situation or because their innately programmed to be as human as possible and survival is pretty big for us. But overall I think it´s a good book I love PKD books and just recently finished my third book after him. Shouldn't there a separate thread for the book discussions?
Ganepark32 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 *cough* Bump *cough* Excuse me. Anyone have a lozenge? Anyways, thought someone should move this up. It's Lost In Translation for this Sunday, the 11th, so I'm sure we can all fit that in. I'll be catching up on Leon later on this evening.
jayseven Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Indeed! Where has the last week gone! If people want to try and watch Lost in Translation, then that'll be cool to discuss. If at any point someone wants to talk about a previous week's movie, then feel free
Ganepark32 Posted January 9, 2009 Posted January 9, 2009 I'm gonna be watching Leon in a little while so I should be able to provide some input to a conversation on it later on. I'll stick Lost In Translation on tomorrow night. One of my favourite films so it's always enjoyable to watch and should provide a good conversation if others watch it as well. edit: Watched Leon last night. Was a good film, really enjoyed it. I'll put my thoughts in a spoiler tab so those who haven't seen it won't have bits spoiled. I really liked the way in which we got to see the character development of both Leon and Matilda as well as the development of their 'friendship', if that's what you could call it. Obviously with Leon's work, he can't be close to people, which is explained in his background story about the woman he loved back home, yet we see him open up progressively to Matilda over the course of the film. Whether it is because he has feelings for her or whether it is purely situation is not known but it could be both. At the end he says he loves so I'm guessing his feelings have progressively changed due to being around Matilda. His sacrifice for her at the end to give her what she wants, i.e. the revenge she has been seeking, shows us that he does love her but is it in the plutonic sense or what? That would be interesting to discuss. Matilda's character development is a typical one which has been seen in movies before. Something happens to person's family, they get angry and want revenge and so they seek it out. Yet, while it is your typical revenge story from her perspective, it's also very different because she is such a young girl who has just created this lust for revenge for her brother very quickly. So she wants to prove to Leon she can do it but when she is confronted by the person who has wronged her in the mens bathroom, she just freezes. It shows us that even though she wants revenge, she can't bring herself to do anything about it because it felt like she had this feeling she'd become just like the guy she killed or become like Leon, and never sleep and never enjoy life as he's always sleeping with one eye open in case something happens. Bit hard to discuss the film for me just now as I've just woken up. Perhaps later on I'll be able to expand a bit on what I've said.
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