Sheikah Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 yeh because we'd lose out on moments such as the 'Pigeon, go get help' one. It'd just get too serious when Hiro offers a comedic value to the show. Exactly; it confuses me why this person would want Hiro to be stripped of his humour and become so serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Nathan wanted to tell the world about his powers last season then decides to take on his father's project to give powers to everyone and then decides to convince the President that people with powers should be imprisoned. My brain hurts just thinking about all of this. - Speaking of Sylar, I also really used to think he and Nathan were cool characters, but man, what murky messes both have become. Sylar should never have been made a series regular – it was inevitable his impact would be diluted by doing so, and wow was his would be redemption storyline a misguided mess. As for Nathan, I liked that he was always a bit morally grey, but that doesn't mean he should have a completely different goal every two weeks. - Remember how Adam was a giant character in "Volume II: Generations"? He was the main adversary bent on killing everyone with a plague! And remember the dark turn that Hiro took when he buried him alive for, what could have wound up being, all eternity? Of course you do. You remember it as well as you remember watching Adam get pointlessly un-buried for comic relief and then killed off for no reason. That whole moment makes any re-viewings of "Volume II" absolutely pointless. I agree which each of these points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 ^ I can answer at least on of the points brought up in there. Much in the same reason that they went to Ireland, they went to Africa because they wanted to show us that what is happening, with people and powers, etc, is not strictly confined to the USA. That's why we have Suresh and Hiro/Ando. With everything else, though, they do make a good point. Who are we supposed to hate or sympathise with? The line between hero and villian has become so clouded that it's almost impossible to make up our minds on this. I could go on longer but I can't be arsed dragging on. All I'll say is that even with all of its problems I'm still enjoying it. But the journeys are always so pointless and long. When they started Matt's vision quest this year it left me wondering if they'd learnt anything from Hiro in feudal Japan. Fine, have Matt go on a vision quest but wasn't he in Africa for what, four or five episodes? It just seems like they plot out a storyline but then have some spare characters they can't fit in and go "Oh we'll move them to xx for a few episodes". What did Matt achieve? He suddenly fell in love with Daphne and has a new pet turtle... In a sense though, some characters having no distinct line between hero and villain takes a giant dump on the clichéd 'good and evil' characters from comic books. In reality most people are a mixture of both good and bad, and often their actions are determined by the situations they are confronted with. That's not to say the article doesn't come up with some good points, but it does make some bad points too. For instance, asking for Hiro to become that battle-hardened samurai recluse is stupid because we all love Hiro for his jokey, Japanese-tourist moments (as well as his heroism). I don't think anyone else really wants him to become that serious pony-tailed guy from the future. yeh because we'd lose out on moments such as the 'Pigeon, go get help' one. It'd just get too serious when Hiro offers a comedic value to the show. But future Hiro was shown to be this dark samurai person. I think the writer just wants to see that this is happening. It should be a gradual process; make him have to do 'dark' things (like stabbing Ando, but...real). You can be dark and comedic at the same time. Or have him go completely dark. Hiro has lost a lot; he's lost his parents and someone he quickly fell in love with. It somehow turned Sylar into a mustache-twirler, so it could arguably have the same affect on Hiro. He could then have to redeem himself. And if the show needs comic relief its not like they have any issues bringing in new people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I think Sylar has had his time to be honest. He is not the evil bad guy he once was as he has proven down the years, he is now shades of grey which for me for your ultimate villian doesn't work. His constant being manipulated is getting tiresome. Presumably in Fugitives they are all going to club together and stick it to the man and this will make things even more confusing unless Sylar goes about doing something else. I am glad they are going back to this mass rounding up and imprisoning of those with powers though as it goes back to missing parts of season 2 that were left by the way side owing to the writers strike. Its not quite the same but I'm pretty sure it was in their minds when they took this direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganepark32 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 @ Ashley - Hey.... Don't diss the turtle man. Wouldn't surprise me to see the writers giving him/her a power. Yeh the Africa storyline for Matt didn't really accomplish much and I supposed they should have and could have done much more with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 But future Hiro was shown to be this dark samurai person. I think the writer just wants to see that this is happening. It should be a gradual process; make him have to do 'dark' things (like stabbing Ando, but...real). You can be dark and comedic at the same time. Or have him go completely dark. Hiro has lost a lot; he's lost his parents and someone he quickly fell in love with. It somehow turned Sylar into a mustache-twirler, so it could arguably have the same affect on Hiro. He could then have to redeem himself. And if the show needs comic relief its not like they have any issues bringing in new people... But I honestly can't get why this guy would want the best personality in the show to be bastardised and turned emo. There is absolutely no way in hell Hiro could go dark and still be the same funny guy we love him for. Also, Hiro never went down that path because the place never blew up, so I don't see why he'd expect Hiro to go that way. Hiro is the kind of guy who acts by just principles and honour, so for them to change him it would seem quite unreasonable. Are you seriously saying they can mess up Hiro and bring in new people to provide the comedy? Sounds pretty funking ridiculous to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 But I honestly can't get why this guy would want the best personality in the show to be bastardised and turned emo. There is absolutely no way in hell Hiro could go dark and still be the same funny guy we love him for. Also, Hiro never went down that path because the place never blew up, so I don't see why he'd expect Hiro to go that way. Are you seriously saying they can mess up Hiro and bring in new people to provide the comedy? Sounds pretty funking ridiculous to me... Because Heroes is so grounded in the sensible? :p I'm not saying its the best route, but rather a route. And as NYC always seems to be in danger in spite of it being saved I'm going to presume they're taking the 'the final outcome can never be changed, just the path it takes to get there' route. We're trapped by destiny and all that. (oh and I was trying to say he would get to a point of complete darkness (and thus non-funniness) but eventually return. Its about a journey. Otherwise they're all just in arrested development (the state of living, not the show obviously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 IGN's Idiot Box: Heroes - "Villains" BRIAN ZOROMSKI Editor-in-Chief, IGN TV I used to really enjoy Heroes. Season one had some great moments ("Company Man" was brilliant), and the episode-ending cliffhangers were very cool. But now, with "Villains," I find that I just don't care about the characters, and I'm never afraid that any of the main characters will ever die. The only people that actually stay dead are the ones that get introduced in the current season, which means there's no point getting attached to anyone new, because you know they'll be dead by the end of the "Volume." I really liked Robert Forster as Arthur Petrelli -- he was even able to pull off the cheesiest of lines (such as "You're grounded") -- but now he's gone. (At least I think he is -- he did absorb Adam Monroe's regenerating power though, way back at the start of the season, so who knows.) Pretty much the only storyline I liked was the Petrellis telling Sylar that he's their son when he actually wasn't and they were just trying to manipulate him. But, wait... as I think about that more, it doesn't make any sense. Angela and Arthur Petrelli weren't talking to each other (she didn't even know he was alive at first) so how they cook up a plan to control Sylar? Man, even the one thing I liked about "Villains" doesn't work if you think about it. Pretty much every character this volume made completely ridiculous decisions that go against everything we've known about that character. Hiro opens his father's safe (leading to the stealing of the formula) and distrusts his best friend Ando for something he might do in the future, Suresh injects himself with an untested formula to gain powers, Sylar decides he loves Elle (the person who helped make him a monster) and then decides to kill her, Noah sets up with a high-powered rifle and decides to watch Sylar and Elle have sex instead of killing Sylar, Claire and Noah have the most unemotional reunion ever after she's been attacked by Sylar (and he's just stopping by to pick up some papers on escapees), and Nathan wanted to tell the world about his powers last season then decides to take on his father's project to give powers to everyone and then decides to convince the President that people with powers should be imprisoned. My brain hurts just thinking about all of this. What I'd love to see instead is actual, honest-to-goodness character development, where these people learn to live with their powers (instead of spending time giving everyone else powers or trying to take them away) and have some sort of logic in their decisions. Let Hiro grow up into the badass samurai-sword-wielding Future Hiro we got a glimpse of in season one, instead of making him ten years old (which he's never strayed too far from emotionally anyway). Have Nathan realize he's a self-hating man who's driven away his family (whatever happened to his wife and kids, anyway? They left when he became an alcoholic last season and now he doesn't even try to see them?). ERIC GOLDMAN Editor, IGN TV Man, Heroes! Where to start? After a fun and exciting first season that seemed to get better and more interesting as it went along (even if the season finale was a bit of a letdown), Volume 2 was highly disappointing. But the problems that the show had during the second season were nothing compared to what was in store for Volume 3. Heroes is just not a good show right now. The worst thing about it is that there are pretty much no characters worth caring about. I guess Noah Bennet is still kind of okay, but it's not like he's had any decent storyline recently, beyond variations on "protect Claire/kill Sylar." Speaking of Sylar, I also really used to think he and Nathan were cool characters, but man, what murky messes both have become. Sylar should never have been made a series regular it was inevitable his impact would be diluted by doing so, and wow was his would be redemption storyline a misguided mess. As for Nathan, I liked that he was always a bit morally grey, but that doesn't mean he should have a completely different goal every two weeks. Let's see, in just the span of a few months (and it's probably a lot less in Heroes-time), he's: A. Wanted to reveal the existence of super powered people, believing it would help mankind. B. Changed his mind after miraculously surviving a shooting, and found God. C. Been vehemently against his father Arthur's plan to give half the world superpowers D. Decided he's totally for the plan to give half (or at least a good deal) of the world superpowers E. Decided all super powered people should be locked up in camps. Makes perfect sense, right? Sigh! As for the rest of the characters, do any of them make sense or resonate as real people anymore? Do Peter, Claire, Matt and the rest feel like relatable characters who make understandable decisions? Occasionally I'll see someone defend Heroes by saying something akin to, "It's a world where people have powers and you want things to be realistic?!" Yes! Great fantasy drama can have bigger than life, fantastical stories as long as we believe the way the characters react within this fantastic world. And I don't buy anyone's actions on this show these days. Suresh turning into a power hungry mad scientist? Hiro having apparently learned nothing about responsibility after the first two seasons and acting like a complete child to get the formula storyline started (before they made him act like an even bigger child)? These are not characters I have any investment in. The Hiro and Ando scenes of late have almost all been cringe-inducing. And seriously, what is the point of introducing Tracy? Was she at all a compelling character during Volume 3? Here is a show lazy enough to re-use a horrible future and a crisis that needs to be averted, and also to not even bother explaining that horrible future. What was that big exploding energy ball Hiro saw in the premiere? Why did Ando turn against him and demand the formula in the future? Nothing in the ensuing episodes explained that. Hell, what was Arthur Petrelli's plan? Okay, he wanted to give half the world super powers! But why? For what purpose? Jeez, tell me it was to rule the world. Tell me it was something, anything. I just ranted a lot more than I thought I would, but that's because once you look at all Heroes has been offering lately, it's hard not to see how poor the product has been. The fact is, if the show had been this low in quality during Season 1, it never would have gained the viewers it did – about half of whom it has managed to lose since. I have so many friends who dropped the show now, most of whom I don't think will ever be back. Do I think the show is "beyond saving"? No. The structure of the show still allows for a lot of new storylines and directions to go if the people guiding it actually use it properly. I really, really hope Bryan Fuller's return can be a big step in the right direction for the show. I love Fuller, but I don't expect miracles. I go into "Fugitives" with no expectations, and the full knowledge that Fuller's overall impact can't be that huge since we still have several episodes until he's back. But I hope that everyone involved in Heroes is taking a good, long look at the story they just told in "Villains" and seeing how little it added up to. More views on series 3 here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 And as NYC always seems to be in danger in spite of it being saved I'm going to presume they're taking the 'the final outcome can never be changed, just the path it takes to get there' route. We're trapped by destiny and all that. (oh and I was trying to say he would get to a point of complete darkness (and thus non-funniness) but eventually return. Its about a journey. Otherwise they're all just in arrested development (the state of living, not the show obviously). IMO the fact that the TV series won't go on forever (already 3 seasons) is enough to say we won't have to watch them acting the same for the rest of our lives. NYC may always be challenged but I don't believe it's always Hiro's job to take up that challenge (particularly as he's lost his powers now), especially since they might think they're giving Hiro a little too much emphasis. This is why I don't believe Hiro is destined to become the emo samurai who spends his days saving the world anymore. If they did change Hiro and spent a couple of seasons returning him to normal, it's safe to say those two seasons probably wouldn't be nearly as fun without the good old Hiro moments. IGN have a bit too much time on their hands I think. If you just watch the show instead of pretending it's your life then it's not anywhere near as disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 IGN TV are paid to scrutinised though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowV7 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 The reason Hiro got his powers removed was because they wanted the 'crutch' of time travelling. I do suspect he'll get his powers back. Perhaps the scene from the pilot I think with Hiro and Ando on the roof is that Hiro want's the formula for the powers back and Ando wants to stop him from creating it(I even said Hro probably didn't have his powers at that point since he only had the sword and he could of stopped time to steal the formula) Then Ando probably hit him with his lightning(amp powers) to restore his abilities since the Heroes DNA is enginered to take abilites, so his DNA might need a 'boost'. Also about Nathan and the president, people won't know for sure that Nathan is the one leaking information. Though in the documents at the end, we seen none of the people close to Nathan in the files and they would also be the ones that would suspect Nathan the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Swoozie Kurtz to guest star with potential for recurring. Meanwhile. Someone wants out Glad to hear about Kurtz. She is kinda similar to Angela in PD (except with the added charm of an eye patch and a shotgun). And my guess is either Masi Oka or Hayden Paniettere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganepark32 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 If Masi Oka leaves then the show is ruined for me. He's brilliant as Hiro and an excellent member of the cast that they've sort of shunned a lot recently and kind of ruined his character. I just hope it isn't him. Others are saying Ali Larter and I actually wouldn't mind if she left. Not that great of a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoDesiato Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I hope it's Ali Larter. I hate her character(s), and I don't like to watch her huge set of teeth. Fully close you mouth, woman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowV7 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I hope it's Ali Lrter aswell. I just don't like watching her characters on screen. Then if she gets killed off she can be 'brough back from the dead' as Barbara or whatever the other name of the sister is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I hope it's Ali Lrter aswell. I just don't like watching her characters on screen. Then if she gets killed off she can be 'brough back from the dead' as Barbara or whatever the other name of the sister is. Yeah thats they easiest answer and what I thought of straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tellyn Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 But the other sister's Jessica...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergrunch Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 But the other sister's Jessica...? There are 3 sisters, I suppose they could revive Jessica or introduce the 3rd. Frankly though, I'd rather they abandoned them completely, their characters and plots have always been awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokong Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I wanna see Micah and Monica reappear... Monica mostly, she was hot Oh and Molly too, I hate that some characters just vanished with zero explaination Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergrunch Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yeah, all 3 of those characters have cool abilities that they haven't really done that much with. Still, with this fugitives thing I doubt we'll be seeing much intentional usage of powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomJcg Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well, at the end of the 3rd season, micah was in the file given to the president, so theres hope yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I wanna see Micah and Monica reappear... Monica mostly, she was hot Oh and Molly too, I hate that some characters just vanished with zero explaination oh yeah where the hell did molly go to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowV7 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'm pretty sure I read that Micah and Monica are in the 4th volume and are being hunted down. I think Molly wasn't in it much cause she's growing to fast for the series since it started right at the end of volume 2, where as she's grown quite a bit during the year which is why she's only appeared in the future so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 But the other sister's Jessica...?Guess Jessica was just Nikki's sister and not her twin sister, as we were kinda led to believe [that they had some sort of connection]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolness Bears Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 THEY'RE COMING TO GET YOU, BARBARA! What about that Irish Girl? Is she pretty much gone? and West? bring back West. :p I liked Monica however she was good and I'm just a general fan of closer for characters no matter how big or small they are! I like Ali Larter's characters... just the stories never go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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