Stocka Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 - Full motion control over your knife. Will that mean properly 'full' motion control like we were promised in games before the Wii launched? Because i've yet to see it properly like the guy who used it as a sword in the TGS 2005 Wii trailer. That's what i've been excited about with the Wii and so far it hasn't delivered.
Shino Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Will that mean properly 'full' motion control like we were promised in games before the Wii launched? Because i've yet to see it properly like the guy who used it as a sword in the TGS 2005 Wii trailer. That's what i've been excited about with the Wii and so far it hasn't delivered. Dude, did you get a badge for elitism when buying a 360?
Stocka Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Dude, did you get a badge for elitism when buying a 360? I'm saying the truth for christ sake, anyone here would say the same if they had any sense.
mcj metroid Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Dude, did you get a badge for elitism when buying a 360? Stocka is right, That is what we all expected from games like red steel but ha. I don't think we will ever get anything like that. I think the knife control will be a slash control but who cares about that. the aiming will be fantastic hopefully
Hero-of-Time Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Personally being the R Evil nut that I am I would happily just take the Cube version again with the extra scenes and stuff that the PS2 version got even if they didnt put in some different controls.
david.dakota Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Will that mean properly 'full' motion control like we were promised in games before the Wii launched? Because i've yet to see it properly like the guy who used it as a sword in the TGS 2005 Wii trailer. That's what i've been excited about with the Wii and so far it hasn't delivered. Absolutely. I'm a 100% confirmed fanboy (well, perhaps not) but i do agree that there's a lot of the Wii promise that has not arrived. Red Steel's 'gesture' system is a let down, when compared to the promise.
gaggle64 Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 The problem is of course, would an actual, realistic sword fight system be any fun?
pedrocasilva Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 I'm saying the truth for christ sake, anyone here would say the same if they had any sense.Let's agree to disagree. My... Sense, tells me 1:1 against a opponent would require alot of input prediction from were the sword was coming, how it was tilted, etc.. a lot of AI on the opponent and above all, since if it was 1:1 you could just do movements frenetically the AI had to be able to deal with that and still find ways to attack, that or making moves you couldn't avoid to stop you on your tracks. Also if you hit your sword on a obstacle or clash it against other you'd have to stop pulling it further, but, in your home and without a real obstacle the controller can continue to give the coordinates of going further till you pull it, it's bound to not work well. Look at how Zoom worked in Red Steel, could be similar. Besides, the way we swing a sword is purely show off, open movements sideways and with a lot of power put into them, in real-life we'd be creating openings; I mean look at fencing examples: There's a good reason for that stance and all the hand behind the back training mumbo jumbo, but it would be too technical and just take most of the fun from the game. Seriously, you expected too much, we knew all that beforehand. And besides... RE4 is not a sword game. I really don't see why we should agree with that if we "had any sense". The problem is of course, would an actual, realistic sword fight system be any fun?I don't think so, besides it's not really feasible. I want sword swinging with wiimote, but fun swinging, with regular enemies with defence stances (and I mean defending anything while they are like that or me breaking their guard) and such, not 1:1.
Shino Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Its ok dogs, we cool. It's just a little tendencies I've been noting, not particular to Stocka.
Stocka Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 The problem is of course, would an actual, realistic sword fight system be any fun? Of course it would, that's what the majority of us were buying into with the Wii, proper motion control. So you'd rather have it like it is with Zelda where no matter what way you move the controller it always performs the same movement on the screen? It may as well just be a button.
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 'Proper' sword fighting is unrealistic at this point. For one thing, the fight would be over in seconds, especially if you swing the controller around like a fool. Another thing is, the AI of the opponent would need to be decent. No wait...more than decent. If there's any chance of all this being pulled off well without the fights ending in seconds. At this point in time, less than a year into the system's life, I can't see it being done. You need to take it a little bite at a time to achieve perfection. For example, Zelda implemented the wiimote motion sensing instead of a button push. Ok, so what can they do now? The logical step is variation in swings. Swing left for a left swipe, right for a right, and vertical as well as horizontal. Then, build on from that.
Cube Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Of course it would, that's what the majority of us were buying into with the Wii, proper motion control. So you'd rather have it like it is with Zelda where no matter what way you move the controller it always performs the same movement on the screen? It may as well just be a button. More control than Zelda, but not 1:1. A decent amount of pre-determined (eg Up, Down, Left, Right, diagonals. Perhaps also add high/med/low, and thrust) would do the job nicely.
Stocka Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 'Proper' sword fighting is unrealistic at this point. That's not what it seemed by everyone's reaction when that trailer was first shown. I don't see how it's that unrealistic. It's what the Wii is supposedly all about, and if it can't deliver the goods with the motion sensing then it basically is a Gamecube with tacked on waggle. It hurts me to say this but when you open your eyes it really is the truth. Oh and I never meant 1:1 precisely, i just mean that we were hoping that our motion would at least be replicated on the Wii to some extent.
pedrocasilva Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 Of course it would, that's what the majority of us were buying into with the Wii, proper motion control. So you'd rather have it like it is with Zelda where no matter what way you move the controller it always performs the same movement on the screen? It may as well just be a button.It's still more immersive, still Nintendo knew they could add a lot more actions with the sword and chose not to, why? because they wanted to have space for improvement. What to expect, IMO is, you swing it to the left and he swings to the left, same for the right, you a a transversal slice and he does it, you do a vertical slice upwards or downwards and he does that. But that isn't 1:1 that's simply more mapped stances, the height of the swing from the ground would be fixed amongst other things, keeping it simple, responsive and above all, fun.
Teppo Holmqvist Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 So you'd rather have it like it is with Zelda where no matter what way you move the controller it always performs the same movement on the screen? It may as well just be a button. Nobody said that. But 1:1 realistic sword mechanics wouldn't work and would be fucking boring*. Hybrid where the Wii detects direction where you waving and does one of the various specified maneuvers would work. Zelda's method was pants, but it was mostly limited by game's engine. * And this comes from guy who has watched many swordfighting matches between guys who study real medieval swordfighting.
flameboy Posted April 4, 2007 Author Posted April 4, 2007 You would have thought the wiimote would be able to pick up pretty swift movements. Especially when you read these science reports that have been posted on sites such as gonintendo and kotaku about how its been taken apart and the sensors are sensitive to the point of the width of a strand of hear, I guess its down to whether the wii can process such movements in real time.
Dyson Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 I agree with Stocka. Let's face it, motion detection on the Wii so far is, of course, pathetic. It doesn't matter how you do something in any of the games, if it wants a swing in any direction, and you swing it, or move it in any way, it'll practically detect it and go 'Oh gg' To be honest, it's disappointing at the moment. To cover my arse, the only next gen console I have is a Wii.
Stocka Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 What to expect, IMO is, you swing it to the left and he swings to the left, same for the right, you a a transversal slice and he does it, you do a vertical slice upwards or downwards and he does that. But that isn't 1:1 that's simply more mapped stances, the height of the swing from the ground would be fixed amongst other things, keeping it simple, responsive and above all, fun. Exactly, that's what i'm expecting at least. I never meant actual 1:1, but just movement replicated accurately.
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 That's not what it seemed by everyone's reaction when that trailer was first shown. I don't see how it's that unrealistic. It's what the Wii is supposedly all about, and if it can't deliver the goods with the motion sensing then it basically is a Gamecube with tacked on waggle. It hurts me to say this but when you open your eyes it really is the truth.Oh and I never meant 1:1 precisely, i just mean that we were hoping that our motion would at least be replicated on the Wii to some extent. It's unrealistic to the extent that we probably won't see a truely amazing Star Wars game, where we have the ability to replicate the light saber battle between Luke and Darth Vader. I'm not saying that it's impossible to get the wiimote to calculate motions such as that, what I'm saying is that, at this current stage in time, it probably won't happen. A year down the line, when developers know the ins and outs of the controls, what they can do, ideas, etc they can probably work up something special. However, there will always be problems that will need ironing out. There are two types of gamers: the gamer who will use the sword slowly and calculate his moves, and the gamer who will swing and thrash like a ****. You'll need a way to program the controls correctly so that it doesn't simply work as a case of swinging four of five times and the fight is over. Give it time, and we'll see more uses. Don't forget, this technology is really young...we haven't even had it for a generation yet. In a sense, developers are still toying with it, and it'll be through trial and error that we get results. Edit: Ahh Stocka, I thought you meant proper 1:1. In my other post, I said it was the next logical step.
Cube Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 You would have thought the wiimote would be able to pick up pretty swift movements. Especially when you read these science reports that have been posted on sites such as gonintendo and kotaku about how its been taken apart and the sensors are sensitive to the point of the width of a strand of hear, I guess its down to whether the wii can process such movements in real time. It can pick up precise movements. Wii Sports Baseball is precise within it's limits in regard of 1:1 movement (i.e. before the swing if you dont hold the remote in stupid ways). The problem is deciding where to put the border between natural movement and action.
Teppo Holmqvist Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 The problem is deciding where to put the border between natural movement and action. Yeah, guy who was developing Tiger Woods said that they were forced to compromises with detection because EA wanted that people could play it sitting. Furthermore, 1:1 motions resulted in many mistake swings, as Wii took even smallest movement as an attempt to swing club.
mcj metroid Posted April 4, 2007 Posted April 4, 2007 oh come on! THis is about as true as blazings angels being on-line! I'm getting sick of this so much for my prediction:(
flameboy Posted April 4, 2007 Author Posted April 4, 2007 so much for my prediction:( haha- you could have kept this down in the depths of the forums and it might not have got dug up, you could have started singing the praises of Nintendo, instead now you will always be seen as a doubter of rumours that turn out true:wink:
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