Cube Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 They did actually: I should read the whole story next time.
CoolFunkMan Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Okaaaay.... the BBFC are a bit retarded methinks. They ban Manhunt 2 for its gruesome killing methods, and yet Bioshock, which lets you kill little girls, gets through with an 18 rating!? Not that I've got nothing against Bioshock or anything (it looks amazing!), and I know they got past the ban due to the fact that the little sisters have lost some of their humaity, but it's the concept that counts. Though at the end of the day it's all FICTION. It's no different from a slasher movie (and most of them are likely WORSE than Manhunt 2...)
Cookyman Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I find this news a bit rich coming from a government who's answer to the overcrowding in prisons today is to relase smackheads, burglars, dealers and con artists early - but when it comes to a violent game ooooh we cant have that ban it! Is it just me or is their priorities out of whack?
Gizmo Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 The publicity this is going to get will send sales through the roof if appeals are successful.
Cube Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I think the BBFC should make a new rating (like the Adult Only in the US) to highlight the games to parents, rather than just not letting the game in the country.
flameboy Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Wow, this is... fucking crazy.I've never heard of a game being banned in 10 years, since the original Carmageddon on PC. I don't get this, the original was allowed to be released, why not this? The rules have changed since the first one came out and there has been a review of the situation. Would that mean then we could order from play and they could sell it legally? As everyone has pointed out, EU and UK has no way to run the rule on Jersey. HOWEVER: Before everyone rushes off the play.com (not the only jersey based site, hmv, tesco etc... are filed as seperate companies in jersey) and orders it, the way things seem to be going a PAL release looks very unlikely, many other countries may follow suit, meaning no PAL copies could end up being made... Also would reckon if say france end up being the only country releasing it that it will only be a single language version... The councils thing aswell I really can't see that happening, although technically it could, I don't think you will find a council that will allow it to go on sale.
conzer16 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I think the only way of getting this game aside from inporting a US wii and US copy would be to pray that Frnace give it the all clear, Rockstar continue to prepare for a PAL release and import a copy from France. Anyone got any french retailers websites for me?
Cookyman Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 I think the BBFC should make a new rating (like the Adult Only in the US) to highlight the games to parents, rather than just not letting the game in the country. Agreed - this is absurd In the UK you can buy hardcore porn classified as R18 from sex shops: This is from the BBFC site: 'R18' - To be shown only in specially licensed cinemas, or supplied only in licensed sex shops, and to adults of not less than 18 years. The ‘R18’ category is a special and legally restricted classification primarily for explicit works of consenting sex between adults. Films may only be shown to adults in specially licensed cinemas, and videos may be supplied to adults only in licensed sex shops. ‘R18’ videos may not be supplied by mail order. The following content is not acceptable: any material which is in breach of the criminal law, including material judged to be obscene under the current interpretation of the Obscene Publications Act 1959. material (including dialogue) likely to encourage an interest in sexually abusive activity (eg paedophilia, incest, rape) which may include adults role-playing as non-adults. the portrayal of any sexual activity which involves lack of consent (whether real or simulated). Any form of physical restraint which prevents participants from indicating a withdrawal of consent. the infliction of pain or physical harm, real or (in a sexual context) simulated. Some allowance may be made for mild consensual activity. Penetration by any object likely to cause actual harm or associated with violence. any sexual threats, humiliation or abuse which does not form part of a clearly consenting role-playing game. Strong abuse, even if consensual, is unlikely to be acceptable. These guidelines will be applied to the same standard whether the activity is heterosexual or homosexual. So there you go - you can watch Granny arse bangers 4 (I made that up) but cant play Manhunt 2 WTF???
steggy Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 So there you go - you can watch Granny arse bangers 4 (I made that up) but cant play Manhunt 2 WTF??? *Goes out to buy copy*
Cookyman Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 The rules have changed since the first one came out and there has been a review of the situation. As everyone has pointed out, EU and UK has no way to run the rule on Jersey. HOWEVER: Before everyone rushes off the play.com (not the only jersey based site, hmv, tesco etc... are filed as seperate companies in jersey) and orders it, the way things seem to be going a PAL release looks very unlikely, many other countries may follow suit, meaning no PAL copies could end up being made... Also would reckon if say france end up being the only country releasing it that it will only be a single language version... The councils thing aswell I really can't see that happening, although technically it could, I don't think you will find a council that will allow it to go on sale. I imagine the PAL copies have already been pressed including all language options - I cant see that changing so worst case scenario and I cant get it from Play.com - could always buy from Amazon France - as they post to the UK. *Goes out to buy copy* I'll lend you mine
flameboy Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 good point Cookyman, perhaps stuff that society deems as "sick" and not for the mainstream, much like porn is viewed by a lot of people should be lumped in with porn... One other slant I've been thinking about is, it is not the responisblity of the developer to stop it getting into the hands of minors but the job of the government and the retail sector. Surely the BBFC give it an 18 and that means it cannot be sold to anyone under this age. Surely their job is to say who it can and cannot be sold to, not who it can't be sold to. The developer is simply catering to the different types of gamers out there much like film companies design different types of films for different movie goers. Once its rated its out of their hands. So surely if the government was more strict and educated parents better this would not be an issue? In England the punishments for selling 12,15,18 certificates to a minor is far more severe that selling alcohol to a minor. Sell alcohol to a 17 year old and you just get an on the spot fixed fine. Sell an 18 to a kid and you and you can be fined up thousands of pounds and face a jail sentence, but clearly this is not working as it would appear this material still ends up in the hands of children, so making parents aware is the only way, as somebody must be buying them the games...
Cookyman Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Well this has certainly turned into a very good discussion - I think a good roundtable subject for the site - what do you reckon!
D-Day Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Well this has certainly turned into a very good discussion - I think a good roundtable subject for the site - what do you reckon! I haven't said anything on the matter (yet), but I fully agree still :awesome: D-Day's reaction to whole dumb BBFC vs. Manhunt 2 & the UK (possibly Europe) coming soon...
conzer16 Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 It certainly brings to the fore the topic of censorship in a modern society doesnlt it?
Aimless Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Has anyone considered that they might have actually banned it for a reason? In the BBFC's press release on the matter they state that, "Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game's unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game." The original Manhunt was about revenge and being pushed towards violence to survive — the player was a victim. From what I've heard about the sequel the game is far more amoral and gratuitous, painting the player as a sadistic murderer. If the game was designed to be controversial for controversiality's sake, then the BBFC is well within its right to put down a ban. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if an appeal is negotiated and suddenly Manhunt 2 has a lot more public interest behind it.
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Well this has certainly turned into a very good discussion - I think a good roundtable subject for the site - what do you reckon! I'm right on it. Just a question of whether we need a staff roundtable, a forum one, or both! And a question of getting it up before this becomes tomorrow's news.
Jamba Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 OK guys, I've just emailed the BBFC and CC'ed it to my local MP. I think censorship sucks in any format because it is up to people to make their own minds. Here's what I wrote, worry if it's a bit long: Dear Madam/Sir, This afternoon I was saddened to read the news of the BBFC's decision to not grant the video game Manhunt 2 a certificate. As a result it will not be sold in the UK. I understand that the department will be recieving many letters and emails on the subject and I fully join and support those who think that Manhunt 2 should reach the shelves in the UK. However, the nature of my email is questioning rather than that of a statement. As I understand, the role of the BBFC is to provide a standardised rating system for media to advise the public on the content and nature of those materials. On your website you specifically refer to films only when detailing the companies role and suggest that if a film is uncertified that local government can overrule the Board's decision. In terms of video games how could any overrule be achieved, without unanimous rejection of such a decision? I would also like to understand more about how the BBFC is embued with the power to entirely censor any title. Surely the role of giving an 18 certificate to a piece of media is to advise the public that a title is unfit for viewing/playing by minors. In this I fully support and appreciate the BBFCs efforts (particularly in the realms of the video game world); education of the public on the importance taking heed of certificates with the interest of minors at heart is very valuable work. I also understand that industry support has allowed to help the certification process to remove some of the grey areas surrounding the issues concerning the retail section of the equation. However banning a piece of media steps on to entirely new ground. I am sure that the BBFC is already fully aware that by doing so it automatically damages an inividual adult's right to freedom of choice in what they read, watch, play or listen to. How can the board justify taking such a decision into their own hands, especially when the scientific evidence surrounding the effect of computer games and violent content is inconclusive? ELSPA suggested today that the ban of Manhunt 2 is an indication that the "sytem is working", however I have to entirely disagree. Doing so suggests a lack of faith in the public to make decisions in their own interest and therefore the only path is intervention on country-wide scale. I find this disturbing especially in the current political climate, in which the media often demonise video games. This only helps reinforce an attitude of fear concerning the issue. On top of this there is already an escilating backlash against the Board's decision which will likely only fuel cult interest in the title and cause the reverse of the desired effect. Has the BBFC considered allowing the sale of the title under a non-classified status? Maybe illustrating heavily to the public that the game contains extreme levels of violence and very aggressive content on the packaging and in shops, will allow them to make an informed decision. Maybe the game should not be displayed publically in shops? On another point, I would like to know if the BBFC takes any precautions to prevent situations such as this occuring again? Was Manhunt 2 reviewed during its development process or at a time in which the developer could have made the due alterations? I look forward to reading your thoughts on the matter. Yours sincerely, Patrick Frost Student of Computer Games Art (BAHons) - University of Teeside.
Stickman Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Today...BBFC and IFCO stated that manhunt 2, will not be legally available in the UK, i say we take action, give us your full name and we will send as many as possible to the ratings board demanding action, we can fight back! 1. Luke Broadhead 2. Gerard Quinn 3. Jamie Flanagan
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Whats DSaster? Remember, no promoting your own sites here, ladies and gentleman. Rather, support N-Europe. YEAH!
Cookyman Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 OK guys, I've just emailed the BBFC and CC'ed it to my local MP. I think censorship sucks in any format because it is up to people to make their own minds. Here's what I wrote, worry if it's a bit long: Very nicely written sir but you should have made my point about granny arse bangers 4.
Kav Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 OK guys, I've just emailed the BBFC and CC'ed it to my local MP. I think censorship sucks in any format because it is up to people to make their own minds. Here's what I wrote, worry if it's a bit long: That's fantastic!
nekunando Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Very nicely written sir but you should have made my point about granny arse bangers 4. ..as a quote in your letter from Cookyman, N-Europe. : peace: It's well written so I look forward to seeing what sort of reply you get!
Jamba Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Tue, didn't really want to connotate Manhunt with porn tho :p. But yeah why can't they just sell it non-certificated. If Rockstar struck a deal with Game, they would make a mint! Sell it under the counter, be really heavy on ID. Hunt down ppl who let their kids play it and murder themmm!!!!!!! AHahahaha! Whooops. Been playing a bit too much Manhunt, sorry guys....
Recommended Posts