david.dakota Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Right, i'll make no appolgies for this post. I might very well be in a minority here, but we live in a society of free speech and i'll voice my opinion. Back in September, we moved to Stockport. Having stayed overnight in the area, we were as confident as we could be about the road - however, one thing was missed. Our side of the road were Private Homes, the other a Council Estate. And, there is a CLEAR line between the two sides of the street. The kids on our side were pleasant and what I would call 'normal kids'. The Council Side - a bizarre mix of antisocial reprobates and lost souls. Respect seems to have been a key word in Government for some years, but in this particular area, Respect is clearly lacking. Respect for others and perhaps more importantly Self Respect. During our shortlived stay in Stockport, we were subjected to a torrent of antisocial behaviour. This behaviour was instigated for no real reason, besides asking children not to throw stones and wood in the general direction of our 9 month old daughter (while I'm sure not a deliberate act originally, these children took it upon themselves to escalate the situation by then throwing stones at my car, the house, and me). Being a father, it is my responsibility to protect my daughter and it is my right to confont risk - and in all cases the best way to do this is RESPECTFULLY. It takes an awful lot to rattle me to the point I hurl a torrent of abuse. A quiet word should have done the trick. Later, after being struck by a stone myself, I wished to speak to the lads Mum. At her door, I was greated by an abuseful and, quite demented rant (despite this lady not knowing what had gone on) topped off with the chiched "i'll knife you" threat. Again, a lack of RESPECT. Since I couldnt deal with the situation, I was left with no alternative but to liaise with the Police. Their advice, nothing - can't do anything, if we get involved it'll make things worse. Having spoken to other neighbours, one of which moved due to similar problems, we were not alone in receiving this abuse. Now, i'm not continuing with this post without any reference of carma or "serves you right" attitude. I'm continuing with the respect theme. Matthew Reger was one of these purpetrators. Matthew was killed recently in a Road Traffic Accident involving a lorry. Details are here: http://www.gmp.police.uk/division06/epages/4f8c9c7c62fec1028025720300651b72 http://www.stockportexpress.co.uk/news/s/218/218530_boy_10_killed_cycling_to_school.html Now, its interesting how the press report these things, since it is the understanding of neighbours and witnesses that Matthew was killed as he 'played' in a full skip before school - and when the lorry hauling the skip was driven off, Matthew fell as he attempted to climb out. This skip was full of people's crap. Lets face it you have no other reason for having a skip outside your house, but to put your rubbish and waste in. Its a giant waste basket - and a boy was 'playing' in it? Regardless of what he was doing in it, in my eyes, it shows a complete lack of Self Respect. I've covered two points here. Respect for others and Self Respect. Are they two seperate issues, or are they always found hand in hand? And why do certain people lack both? Other kids who attacked our property and ourselves had no opportunity to evaluate my potential response - it could have been equally possible that I'd retaliate in a more agressive way (surely, if you take that kind of risk, or any kind of risk, you're not showing respect for yourself?). It is my responsibility as a parent to raise my daughter with necessary personal and social skills; are these parent's taking their responsibility seriously? In my opinion and from my own experience it seems Council properties are inhabited by people with little or no respect for themselves or others. So, can we do more to integrate them? Perhaps, Council tennants should be required as part of their tennency agreements to attend Social Classes and Parenting Classes? Should it be easier to complain and have Council Tennants evicted? Council Tennants seem a close solid, knit community, but lack a respectful attitude to others. We seem to be becomming a society of pocketed communities. Are we really able to stop this worrying trend?
Apple_NdiB Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Everything was fine 'til they started wearing those bloody full body vails.
Haden Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 I can see the elephant! While it would be easy to be all daily mail your a snob to this guy. But he has a genuine problem that is very sad. In my town its nowhere near as bad there is a divide from a bridge the town side is nice the school side isnt. Its quite sad really how this divide causes this. I feel for you as theres no excuse for that behaviour and im not sure what you can do.
Nintendork Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Shielding your children from that kind of stuff turns them into the same people that you are. Why not let the children try and integrate? Treating one side as normal and the other as reprobates on alienates your community. All this talk of respect sounds like this person is treating her household as an outsider.. there appears to be no attempt to integrate with the community. This attitude that you can take everything into your own hands (with respect of course) and champion them is wrong. This person would no doubt be better in a place like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/united-gates.shtml Where sociodemographic backgrounds are not a problem.. because everyone is the same.
rokhed00 Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Council estates aren't all bad. I live on one and have never had any real trouble, there's one or two problem kids, but they really are the minority. It's just a vocal minority that makes everyone look bad.
Katie Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 You need to understand that just because the council estate in your area has disrespectful people within it doesn't mean everyone living in a council house is like that. That's pretty much saying that just because you can't afford to buy your own house you must be rude and disrespectful people. I grew up in a council house and neither me or my family were like the people you describe. To suggest people living in those houses should have to attend social classes is absurd. Maybe some people should need to but for it to be part of tenancy agreements in general would be mad.
Fields Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Shielding your children from that kind of stuff turns them into the same people that you are. Why not let the children try and integrate? Treating one side as normal and the other as reprobates on alienates your community. All this talk of respect sounds like this person is treating her household as an outsider.. there appears to be no attempt to integrate with the community. This attitude that you can take everything into your own hands (with respect of course) and champion them is wrong. This person would no doubt be better in a place like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/united-gates.shtml Where sociodemographic backgrounds are not a problem.. because everyone is the same. Oh right, so we should accept anti-social behaviour and treat it as 'normal'. That would solve everything, wouldn't it? Please think before you post such rubbish. And why should he be forced to 'integrate' with such scum? Your mention of gated communities is interesting. Personally, I think this could be the way forward. If we all lived in separate, segregated communities, these bastards could smash each others windows, burn each others cars and fight amongst themselves all they want while the rest of us get on with our lives .
ReZourceman Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Ugh, dont even get me started on that newspaper headline bull shit. Fuck that. Council estates are full of wankers, idiots, and people like you (And technically me) Where my mum stays is a council estate, we lived with some people (A mother and her daughter) in the flat above us, and across a few flats were some other kids. - A few of the kids went into the Comic Shop in the town. I worked in there Saturdays and played table top games (Heroclix, SWM etc) with the group aswell. Well, one day they turned into chavs. Then they must of seen me get out of my mates car, and next thing we know it has "Hero" keyed into the side of it. We had numerous troubles with the mother and daughter above us - Noise, Abuse, lack of respect, blocking our car by the way they parked, slamming doors, dogs, the list goes on. Well we had many run ins with them, of course they think we are upper class scum just because we arent malicous evil animals of people, we even had a third party sort of messaging thing, and she has threatened my mum. This year my mum got mouth cancer. This was back in April, and she still isnt eating, shes had a very bad time and its been hard (As you can imagine) my (Older) sister wrote them a letter to please keep noise down, and such so my mum could get rest and not be disturbed. Yeah she is so sadistic that they have been purposely banging doors and playing even louder music. We've been keeping logs and contacted the police numerous times but NOTHING comes of it. Its incredibly unfair. Thus I feel no emotional sympathy for this youth and his family, and I do wish ill health on all of these types of people.
Haver Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 I think the idea is to Get Rich and leave them to it. I don't know.
Roostophe Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 This year my mum got mouth cancer. This was back in April, and she still isnt eating, shes had a very bad time and its been hard (As you can imagine) my (Older) sister wrote them a letter to please keep noise down, and such so my mum could get rest and not be disturbed. Yeah she is so sadistic that they have been purposely banging doors and playing even louder music. We've been keeping logs and contacted the police numerous times but NOTHING comes of it. Its incredibly unfair. Thus I feel no emotional sympathy for this youth and his family, and I do wish ill health on all of these types of people. If I was in that same scenario, my anger would've got the better of me and those buggers would find themselves in a pool of blood with a nice stab wound to match. Some people are just nice people who you like talking to, others are just wankers for some reason we don't know because we don't want to speak to them and find out why. Why is it that these parents whose sons/daughters are mindless vandals and yobs say it's society's fault for letting their children down. When they don't seem to realise the error of their ways, unfit mothers and fathers who think that they should let society raise their children, parents who shouldn't even be allowed to have children.
mike-zim Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Why not let the children try and integrate? this is the bit i find totally stupid. Nintendork i would never have taken you as an idiot but this statement make you look a fool. These are children that are terrorising neighbourghs throwing stones swearing and generally being complete heathans. Now tell me if you had children (assuming you dont from your comment) are those the type of people you would want them to "intergarte" with? possibly emmulate?
Samdecahedron Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 I've lived in stockport all my life. What part did you live in? This town is a sack of crap, full of scallys who think just because i don't have a skinhead, i'm 'gay'. my best friends come from here though, and there are some nice people. But you're right about the council estates here, jesus christ. I want to move.
Nintendork Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Geezers need excitement, if their lives don't provide 'em this they'll incite to violence. Simple. Common. Sense. Streets quote, not that any of you would know because you're all (not all) to busy blaming people and not looking to solutions. Stereotyping and prejudicing get you no-where. Oh the police won't do anything so I'll post on the internet. Talk to you councillor.
Roostophe Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 full of scallys who think just because i don't have a skinhead, i'm 'gay'. I wish girlfriends were accessories you could buy from a shop.
The3rdChildren Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 You need to understand that just because the council estate in your area has disrespectful people within it doesn't mean everyone living in a council house is like that. That's pretty much saying that just because you can't afford to buy your own house you must be rude and disrespectful people. I grew up in a council house and neither me or my family were like the people you describe. To suggest people living in those houses should have to attend social classes is absurd. Maybe some people should need to but for it to be part of tenancy agreements in general would be mad. Well said. My council estate, South Oxhey, has a bad reputation but I've not had any real problems here as the people tend not to shit on their own. In fact I actually like living on South Oxhey and I'm sorry to hear other council estates aren't as enjoyable as mine. I mean, we have a park with a tire swing and everything... You ought to remember there are assholes in all walks of the park, not just on council estates.
Fierce_LiNk Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 That's a horrible story, dude. It's also disheartening to know that you can do very little to ease the situation. I think it boils down to kids and parenting. There was a good quote from Mr Miyagi in the Karate Kid that is along the lines of "no such thing as bad student, only bad teacher." Because the parents can't control the kids, or choose not to control the kids (which is very scary to even think about), they're going out of control. These kids are not being taught the value of respecting others and self respect. Although, in schools, they're trying to promote that community spirit a bit more now, and teaching things such as PSHE or Citizenship.
Shorty Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 I've played in a skip, I didn't grow up on a council estate or (I use or and I stress I do not say that the two necessarily go hand-in-hand, they don't) in a bad environment. I don't think it showed a lack of self-respect. At ten years old what is self-respect? He was only a child and he died from a childish action, something that could've happened to anyone regardless of their surroundings. It's tragic and the most respect seen was that which he was given in the reports that glorified his short life. I understand all your concerns about rough neighbourhoods, respect, social upbringings, violence and wanting to look after your family. But 90% of children are only doing what they consider fun.
The Bard Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 Yeah man, I live in Stockport, Heaton Norris to be exact, it's a shithole. I've never really come across any council estates though, so I donno what that shit is like, sounds pretty rough from here, but thats just how kids are sometimes and I don't really think theres anything thats gonna get them to change. And Villan, man if that happened to me, I'd whip some ass. Some people just don't deserve life...actually, not having life would be a sweet release, they should be mercilessly tortured. Maybe.
Bren Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 hate stuck up cunts who think council estates are scummy. Thing is, most of them will be living on one once they leave their rich parents.
rokhed00 Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 full of scallys who think just because i don't have a skinhead, i'm 'gay'. I thought skinheads were quite fashionable in gay circles.
Samdecahedron Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 No idea, but when they say gay they just mean it as a general insult, and nothing related to being homosexual.
ReZourceman Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 hate stuck up cunts who think council estates are scummy. Thing is, most of them will be living on one once they leave their rich parents. I wouldnt consider myself a "stuck up ****" and my mum went bankrupt so Ive got far from "rich parents" and Ive lived on several council estates, and they have all been scummy.
Aimless Posted November 24, 2006 Posted November 24, 2006 hate stuck up cunts who think council estates are scummy. Thing is, most of them will be living on one once they leave their rich parents. Not only have you clearly not read the first post, don't you think that's a bit hypocritical? "I hate people who generalise, they're all stuck up idiots..." No, I don't agree with davidredge's assumption that council estates are intrinsically bad, but give a little thought to his situation: he's tried being civil, it didn't work; he's tried calling the police, they didn't do anything. He's frustrated because his family and others living around him are being terrorised, their lives threatened, and there's nothing he can do about it. What would you do in that situation? So how about all you contrary "ZOMG Daily Mail!" people actually take the time to -read- what's being said rather than dismissing it out of hand. All it takes is a little time and a little empathy, and if all you're prepared to do is spout your own rhetoric then you clearly don't understand the concept of discussion.
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