Flaight Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 I don't think one should underestimate the graphical superiority of the Xbox contra the PS2 in its relative success, particularly in the west. I agree. My intention was not to diss the graphics, but to emphasise the significance of different gaming styles. On a related, but somewhat different note, I'm concerned about the whole Wii60 concept and its effect on PS3. I'm no lover of PS brand, but sometimes the extreme prejudice against PS3 seems ridiculous, and in no small part is this a result of this so called Wii60. This may become long, but I mean to drive home the rationale behind my view. Often what combination of consoles one should get is a religious question of a sort, yet a logical one depending on the approach. Consider, for instance, Wii + PS3. That may turn out to be a more rational combination if you had to maintain a good PC (e.g. for your job or school). Ken Kutagari winds me up mostly and I have no intention of helping his cause politically. But it certainly is a logical school of thought, based not on the idea of how much you spend, but on the width of gaming area covered. (this in continuation to my last post.) That said, I often even question the validity of such concept. For instance, what if PS3 never existed? It would’ve been just 360 and Wii in the upcoming race. Most likely there would’ve been a considerable friction and tension between Microsoft crowd and Nintendo crowd in any demography; somehow I feel that Microsoft would not have introduced the whole buddy-buddy mentality. Then, add to the scene the following: PS3 and Peter Moore suggesting the idea of buying 360 and Wii. All of a sudden, a new concept is born – Wii60 crusading against the evil PS3. In other words, the whole meaning of Wii60 hinges on the existence of PS3. Unlike a generic fanboyism, Wii60 is not an independent school of thought and therefore, by default it is a ploy - an idea that is designed to spring into action in our minds like reflex when considering PS3. It’s very clever and it seems to be working very well - too well perhaps - yet the more you look into this impartially, the more bizarre it seems because considerable amount of work is offloaded from Microsoft. Fanning fanboyism in itself is not a problem, but the implication of espionage makes it dishonest particularly when it’s masqueraded as an innocent idea. I think it’s safe to consider that Microsoft is exploiting Nintendo’s momentum in order to make its own competition against PS3 easier. I have mixed feelings about this sort of tactics. At the end of the day, spending $600 is not the goal. Forcing a certain combination for the sake of it stinks. As you point out, Simon, in the end it’s about what you want to play and getting a console/computer that gives you that playing field. A combination will naturally emerge from that, without manufacturing it by force. I mean, just look at it. Wii isn't even out yet. What does Microsoft, or for that matter anyone, know about any valid combination? And for me, that should’ve been the correct school of thought. I reckon the situation will shake itself up a bit once PS3 is out in the west, but for now an automatic prejudice against PS3 persists (sometimes rightly, dare I say), and any chance of fairly measuring PS3 goes out the window.
SimonM7 Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 Since I already used the term dizzying before, I'll have to go with staggering this time. Staggering amounts of.. a good.. point. Oh and about the graphics thing earlier, I should've phrased it differently because I understood and agreed with what you were saying, and it sounded as if I criticised your point when I was in fact adding to it. Getting back to Wii60, I was actually going to write an article on this for my blog, but now it seems superfluous, after your write up. I think it's a very valid concern indeed, and I actually find it genuinely creepy. I don't think it's neccessarily creepy because MS or Nintendo or anyone is spinning it a certain way, but because as much as people like to think so, Wii60 isn't about inclusion - it's about exclusion.
KKOB Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 I think it's a very valid concern indeed, and I actually find it genuinely creepy. I don't think it's necessarily creepy because MS or Nintendo or anyone is spinning it a certain way, but because as much as people like to think so, Wii60 isn't about inclusion - it's about exclusion. true but its just a bit of fun really. i have a 360, going to get a Wii and eventually a PS3 but that aside i'm all for the Wii60 idea if it shakes off some of Sony's arrogance and actually forces them to innovate in anyway they can. don't forget that Sony also tried to do the Wii60 thing but with Wii and PS3 (yet another thing they stole from M$ ) but anyway, a console is for playing games, yes there is bad blood and people are annoyed that resistance isn't as good as gears but we have YEARS to go yet. people need to relax a little and just have some fun with the good/bad news. however, most of Europe will be Wii60'd till Christmas next year at the very least.
rokhed00 Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 don't forget that Sony also tried to do the Wii60 thing but with Wii and PS3 Yeah PSWii, it didn't really take off though as the whole point of Wii60 is the price.
Stocka Posted November 11, 2006 Posted November 11, 2006 Yeah PSWii, it didn't really take off though as the whole point of Wii60 is the price. And quality
conzer16 Posted November 12, 2006 Posted November 12, 2006 The disgusting truth behind the PS3's on eBay..... (Really good article) http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/foreigners-and-fights-ps3-jpn-launchs-dark-side-214130.php
Aussie Posted November 12, 2006 Posted November 12, 2006 kotaku.com : Foreigners And Fights, PS3 JPN Launch's Dark Side
James Posted November 12, 2006 Posted November 12, 2006 Yeah, just read the artcile, prety shambolic organizing. Alot of gamers are gonna miss out, because of these business men exploiting it.
Flaight Posted November 12, 2006 Posted November 12, 2006 It is well written, isn't it. That Kotaku article. One criticism I have is that it reads like a sensationalist article rather than investigative journalism. Over-dramatization is not always a bad thing for a blog, but for addressing a serious issue, that style can be very misleading to a reader. At the heart of it, the article is about social issues surrounding the consequence of capitalism in any country. Yet, at times it seems to squirt anti-PS3 or even anti-Japan sentiments out of nowhere. That article asserts points beyond the qualification of the facts presented. It may have been better if the story was told "as is", without an over-elaborate flourish. Thus the beauty and the perils of blogs Yeah PSWii, it didn't really take off though as the whole point of Wii60 is the price. I agree rokhed, and Takeo too. My criticism was not brand-specific. It's directed at anyone/anything that attempts to do so. Nintendo remains to be the only party that quietly distanced itself from all this.
Dante Posted November 12, 2006 Posted November 12, 2006 Still unconfirmed from Gamefront: Hardware PS3 20GB: 32.000 St. PS3 60GB: 51.000 St. Total: 83.000 St. Software - Ridge Racer 7: 27.000 St. (38 %) - Gundam: 20.000 St. (26 %) - Resistance: 16.000 St. (40 %) - Sega Golfclub Featuring Miyazato Family: 3.000 St. (24 %)
Kurtle Squad Posted November 12, 2006 Posted November 12, 2006 Then, add to the scene the following: PS3 and Peter Moore suggesting the idea of buying 360 and Wii. All of a sudden, a new concept is born – Wii60 crusading against the evil PS3. In other words, the whole meaning of Wii60 hinges on the existence of PS3. Unlike a generic fanboyism, Wii60 is not an independent school of thought and therefore, by default it is a ploy - an idea that is designed to spring into action in our minds like reflex when considering PS3. I'm sure a lot of people were thinking of getting the 2 before Moore said anything at all...I know I was, and still am; though I'll wait until I get a new PC, have quite a bit of money, and probably wait for Resi 5.
ZeldaFreak Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 I personally like the PSWii60 group of people
Charlie Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 "There are also reports that homeless people were paid to queue for the console on behalf of people now selling them on at a higher price." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6142576.stm
Jamba Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 "There are also reports that homeless people were paid to queue for the console on behalf of people now selling them on at a higher price." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6142576.stm They were doing that for the DS and PSP as well. There's a pretty good article about the PS3 release on http://www.gamesindustry.biz too.
Mr. Bananagrabber Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Maddox updates: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sony_bullshit
Flaight Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 I'm sure a lot of people were thinking of getting the 2 before Moore said anything at all...I know I was, and still am Yes, and me too. In fact I tend to buy all consoles in every generation anyway. That's not relevant to my point though. I wasn't criticising the idea of getting both (or any or all) accordingly to preference. I was criticising the fact that Microsoft had officially made it into a media-internet circus by implanting a superficial concept of adding 2 machinese to make up 1, as the means to gain more ground against PS3. When they see fit, they will turn against Wii or future Nintendo products too, just as they are doing against Sony and PS3. It's a blatantly obvious ploy, staring us in the face. Wii60 might have been an inconspicuous and undefinable demography of people who just happened to want 360 and Wii - and that element still exists, of course (I might even include myself among them). As it stands today, however, it is the crystalization of Microsoft's ploy at its core; many faithfuls seem to ignore, by choice or otherwise, the dishonest influences they have come under. Bearing that in mind, it's regrettable and ironic that so-called Wii supporters are jumping up and down in defence of Wii60, when a backstabbing is just around the corner. Moore & co must be laughing their arse off in Gate's backgarden with a bottle of Champagne.
Domstercool Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Well one Microsoft Dude the other day just called the Wii a kids toy. So it might be starting already. "but at a product comparison level it's not competing with us at all. It's an innovative, low-definition product... People will make a clear decision as to whether they want that sort of product -- a kids toy -- or they want high-definition gaming and entertainment and all that it brings." http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/745/745318p1.html Seems no one reported it in the Wii thread. Why do I think if it was a Sony dude, it would be bashed to hell? Heh.
SimonM7 Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 The way I see it it's absolutely irrelevant what MS thinks of it. In fact, I think it was irrelevant to begin with, even at the start of the Wii60 thing, because I remember when people were catching on to the thought that you'd get two consoles for the price of one, and that had nothing to do with influences from Microsoft. I think the Wii60 people are mostly Nintendo fans or Microsoft fans fed up with playing just the types of games that come out for respective system, and because it's suddenly "okay" to like everything but Sony, there's some kind of comfort in Wii60. I think, at heart, every single person would rather be able to play every single game that they could potentially like, but between them and that utopia lies tons of fanboy bullshit brought on in large part by economic limitations. When you're a kid you can't buy everything you like, so you end up with one system and get together with other people with that system and bond with them going "we don't need that there system!" and even though you eventually have the means to buy and enjoy everything, you've got so much fanboy bullshit as bagage you couldn't possibly let down your pals and your sense of origin, and you quite possibly believe your own crap about there not being anything worthy of your time on other systems. Enter Wii60 swooping in, with an entire ONLINE FORCE yelling "WE'RE GAMING IN THE NAME OF GOOD AGAINST EVIL SONY!" and the subsequent sigh of ultimate relief for those captured within their own fandom. This is what's creepy to me, because fandom confined to one plaform is - as I said before - about inclusion. It's about being "us against the world" if you will. Wii60 expands that and becomes a bullying majority. Liking Sony is "evil" whereas liking the 360 and the Wii is "good". Games as a deciding factor completely disappear, and it's so much more alarming than Ninty fans, Xbox fans, or Sony fans on their own.
Librarian Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 hmmm.. don't know if it is old news.. but the ps3 has some difficulties with some old games http://www.us.playstation.com/News/Stories/5553
Flaight Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 The way I see it it's absolutely irrelevant what MS thinks of it. In fact, I think it was irrelevant to begin with, even at the start of the Wii60 thing, because I remember when people were catching on to the thought that you'd get two consoles for the price of one, and that had nothing to do with influences from Microsoft. Microsoft (through Moore) did subtly rubber-stamp the idea and I can't help but feel that that has become the standard-bearer later on. On the other hand, Nintendo isn't in it. Microsoft did this for their own sake, but that isn't how it was portrayed or interpreted by the Wii60 community. Instead, this creepy buddy-buddy mentality oozed out in bucketloads following Moore's article. Naiivity, innocence, wishful-thinking or whatever you want to call it. Microsoft attempted to ride Nintendo's waves to take advantage of this situation, and in many ways they have succeeded. That's why I had said previously that Wii60 now exists in the context of anti-playstationism; Wii60 now exists for the wrong reasons and Microsoft played a prominant role to this end. I sometimes wonder whether Microsoft wanted Nintendo to jump into the bandwagon. Wisely, Iwata and Miyamoto sussed what MS was up to and quietly exited through the backdoor with indifference. That's Wii60 as it stands, today. The sad result of this is, as Simon puts it, the inclusion vs the exclusion. Wii60 might as well change its name to Anti-PS3. It would hardly make any difference to the current state of it.
Aussie Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Gamespot.com Harrison discussed the PS3's killer app, Sony's decision to abandon rumble feedback in controllers, and the company's European launch plans. Is this guy nuts. they did'nt abandon rumble feedback they have no right to use it anymore and this guy is really up himself.
The3rdChildren Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Man, videogame politics are hilarious.
SimonM7 Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 It's pop-litics, so it's a pretty rewarding thing to get into what with people actually caring.
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