Looking back on Pokémon Starters (Paldea - Gen 9)

[Glen-i]

6 minutes ago, BowserBasher said:

He must have beat Incineroar for it  I’m sure he must be based of some kind of wrestler. 

Oh, we'll get to Incineroar, that's a Gen 7 starter. That Pokémon has quite the full history, despite being so recent.

[Glen-i]

2 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

I think there are some even sillier ones. How does Farfatch'd hatch with a leek? Or Cubone with their "mum's" skull, especially when the mum is a Ditto ¬_¬

Generation 1 didn't have the mechanic that let you breed Pokémon, you'll notice that Pokémon from Gen 2 onwards tend to not have features that make no sense for a newborn.
Most of the time, anyway.

[EEVILMURRAY]

13 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Generation 1 didn't have the mechanic that let you breed Pokémon, you'll notice that Pokémon from Gen 2 onwards tend to not have features that make no sense for a newborn.
Most of the time, anyway.

Shit they need to get their brains onto and start that explainin'

Looking at your other comment I had to go through the 'dex to see these exceptions... from my investigations*

Delibird's sack - Spiritomb's rock maybe - Timburr/Gurdurr/Conkeldurr (mainly Timburr, I assume when it evolves it runs off to rob the other props like a crab getting a bigger shell) - Throh/Sawk's gi's - Klefki's keys - Sandygast's spade - Type: Null's helmet - Komala's stump - Sinistea's cup maybe, I'm not sure if it is haunting the cup, or is the cup - Mimikyu's whole rags - SirFetch'd lance/shield - Tinkatink's hammer (caveat for later evolutions with Timburr etc above) - Gimmighoul's chest - sure I've missed some

Less than I thought!

*scrolling down a list on Bulbapedia

[Glen-i]

5 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

Type: Null's helmet

Mostly all right, but Type:Null can't actually breed, so it doesn't matter there.

And Sinistea does haunt the cup.

[bob]

If you breed the haunted cup Pokémon, does a smaller haunted cup hatch out of an egg?

[Glen-i]

3 minutes ago, bob said:

If you breed the haunted cup Pokémon, does a smaller haunted cup hatch out of an egg?

Yes. But only if the haunted cup Pokémon is the mother.

Oh right. And @EEVILMURRAY. That's not a sack Delibird is holding, that's it's tail.

Edited March 8 by Glen-i

[bob]

I'm starting to think this Pokémon malarkey isn't based in reality at all.

[EEVILMURRAY]

4 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Yes. But only if the haunted cup Pokémon is the mother.

Oh right. And @EEVILMURRAY. That's not a sack Delibird is holding, that's it's tail.

I'm learning so much here

[Dcubed]

56 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

Shit they need to get their brains onto and start that explainin'

Looking at your other comment I had to go through the 'dex to see these exceptions... from my investigations*

Delibird's sack - Spiritomb's rock maybe - Timburr/Gurdurr/Conkeldurr (mainly Timburr, I assume when it evolves it runs off to rob the other props like a crab getting a bigger shell) - Throh/Sawk's gi's - Klefki's keys - Sandygast's spade - Type: Null's helmet - Komala's stump - Sinistea's cup maybe, I'm not sure if it is haunting the cup, or is the cup - Mimikyu's whole rags - SirFetch'd lance/shield - Tinkatink's hammer (caveat for later evolutions with Timburr etc above) - Gimmighoul's chest - sure I've missed some

Less than I thought!

*scrolling down a list on Bulbapedia

Enjoy your present

[Dcubed]

Oshawott has the best song, so they win.

[EEVILMURRAY]

27 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

 

Enjoy your present

Glen has already beaten you to the revelation above. I think I preferred it when I thought it was a sack, instead of some prolapsed anus pretending to be a tail.

[Eddage]

Gen 5 is the first time I hated all the starters, it's also my least favourite gen. I remember not enjoying it when it first came out and recently I've been doing nuzlocke runs of all the games - I gave up on this one about half way through, could not force myself through it.

It's not just the starters I don't like, Gen 5 in general has some of me least favourite pokemon. Krookodile, Excadrill, Hydreigon and Volcorana are pretty much the only ones I'd say I like.

[BowserBasher]

I never knew that was Delibirds tail either. It never helped that Pokémon Go always brings him out during the Christmas period as a what seemed like a seasonal Pokémon. 

@Glen-i be sure to mention me when talking about Incineroar when he comes around. 

[Glen-i]

6 minutes ago, BowserBasher said:

I never knew that was Delibirds tail either. It never helped that Pokémon Go always brings him out during the Christmas period as a what seemed like a seasonal Pokémon. 

@Glen-i be sure to mention me when talking about Incineroar when he comes around. 

To be fair, the next two generations both have starters you should be very familiar with.

[Ashley]

So my main take aways from this generation:

I went to the launch event and One Direction performed so it was a weird mix of nerds, celebrities and screaming teenage girls

At that event or another after it I got a Tepig stuffed toy that can be turned inside out into a pokeball, which is a cute concept except the joining part is essentially where the anus would be so it was quite disturbing. 

This is the only good thing about these extremely meh starters:

 

 

[Jonnas]

13 hours ago, Glen-i said:

This was the beginning of the series basing the regions off of actual countries (Well, countries that aren't Japan). Unova is based off of America,

I thought Unova was only New York? Is it based off the entire mainland?

Snivy's line is great, I dig Serperior's design. I don't care much for the vestigial arms, but they're barely visible, so whatever. I just wish they were all legless.

Oshawott's line is like Mudkip's, but less messy. At least Samurott looks properly quadrupedal (even if Dewott looks super bipedal), and I like the funky beard.

Tepig's doesn't do much for me. Cute pig, but I'm not into that sumo boar. No reason to make it fighting-type either, the pig from Journey to the West isn't famous for fighting or anything.

13 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Something about the fiery beard just makes me smile.

The fiery what?

*re-checks the design*

Oh! Because he has no neck! I've always seen that as a fiery collar, since it covers the shoulders

12 hours ago, Glen-i said:

 

  It's wearing nothing at all! (Reveal hidden contents)

That image cracks me up, did it have to be pointing at it's crotch?

Here's a rough translation.

Quote

It may look like Machoke and Machamp are wearing underwear, but they’re actually not wearing anything. What looks like underwear is just a pattern. After all, Pokémon don’t wear clothes to begin with, right? ‘It’s not wearing anything!

 

 

...I mean, a black "pattern" around the crotch usually just means highly concentrated hair

EDIT: I'm sorry, I hadn't seen the following page, and...

10 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Enjoy your present

I... No, I don't think I will

Edited March 9 by Jonnas

[Glen-i]

25 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

I thought Unova was only New York? Is it based off the entire mainland?

Castelia City (The game's biggest city) most certainly is, but Unova as a whole takes different cues from across America. Ranches, massive warehouses, a mining city, stuff like that is dotted throughout the game.

My Geography ain't all that, but last time I checked, there wasn't a literal desert right outside New York.

EDIT: Also, it's cracking me up how much I'm inadvertently ruining Delibird for people.

I've known about this for 11 years! Welcome to my nightmare of knowing too much about Pokémon!

Edited March 9 by Glen-i

[Glen-i]

Generation 6, or X and Y, are set in Kalos. Kalos takes it's inspiration from France and this generation marks the jump to full 3D for the mainline games. Well, unless you count Colosseum, which doesn't really have the same structure as most Pokémon games, so...

Anyway, Kalos is the region that the recently revealed "Pokémon Legends Z-A" will take place in, so you'll almost certainly see these Pokémon somewhere there. And they might not be completely overshadowed by the game giving you a Gen 1 starter with a Mega Evolution.

Gen 5 flopping in comparison to previous games really spooked Game Freak. Gen 6 is a far cry from "No old Pokémon until the credits". Now there are so many Gen 1 Pokémon, I'd swear we were in Kanto. Bet you can't remember most of the Kalos based Pokémon. I don't blame you. Here are 9 of them.

  

According to the Pokédex, you can hit Chespin (CHESS-pin) with a truck and it wouldn't hurt it a bit.
Chespin's base Defense is 65, so I'm calling BS on that claim.

Chespin struggles at the start of the game, the first gym is Bug, and while the second gym is rock, both of the Gym Leader's Pokémon have secondary types that make Chespin's life difficult.

Chespin is also in the fourth Smash game, and in Smash Ultimate, as a Pokémon that appears from the Poké Ball item. It stands in one spot and periodically uses Seed Bomb. The range is rubbish, but it's very powerful. Smart people will stay clear when it shows up.

Quilladin (QUILL-uh-din) is in the running for most awkward looking middle evolution Pokémon. It's not pretty. I honestly believe it's the main reason why this starter line is the least popular of Gen 6.
Absolutely no proof of that, by the way. Just a gut feeling.

Chesnaught (CHESS-nawt) is the starter Pokémon that kicks off the modern trend of the final evolution of starter Pokémon having a theme. The starter Pokémon in Gen 6 each represent a traditional RPG class. Chesnaught is the Knight of the group, and it's Grass/Fighting. It's arms have this neat little trick where they morph into a shield.

Can't find a decent screenshot, but that's how it looks.

From now on, almost every starter Pokémon has a signature move that's unique to them, at least in the generation they debut in. Chesnaught's is "Spiky Shield". It's basically an improved version of the move "Protect" that damages the opponent if they happen to use a physical contact move on Chesnaught when it uses the move.

But how is Chesnaught in general? Actually, one of the better Grass starters in the series. It's an excellent physical tank, with access to some good utility moves. Fighting is always a solid secondary type to have, even with the newly introduced Fairy type running around.

  

Fennekin (FEN-ik-in) has a serious ear hair problem. And also is mediocre in the early game. Good against one gym, bad against the other. Fennekin is also in the two latest Smash Bros games as another Poké Ball Pokemon. It basically just does what every annoying Ness main does and spam PK Fire. OK, it's supposed to be the move Incinerate, but it functions like PK Fire in Smash.

So... Braixen... (BRAKE-sen) This middle evolution is strange. It's the third, and last, middle evolution that is more popular then the final evolution. But unlike Ivysaur and Grovyle, Braixen isn't popular because of a game outside of the mainline series, Braixen is popular because it's evolution is definitively unpopular!

It's so unpopular that when Pokkén was released for WiiU, Braixen was a playable character in that instead of that final evolution.

I have never seen the general reception of a starter Pokémon turn sour as much as when Braixen evolves into Delphox (DELL-fox). Which is strange, because this one finally breaks the pattern of Fire Starters by being Fire/Psychic this time. I'm not even sure why it's so universally derived, it seems fine to me as a concept.
That concept is mage, by the way. In case it wasn't obvious from the artwork.

Delphox's signature move is "Mystical Fire" a Fire attack of average strength that also lowers the opponent's Special Attack. It's OK.

Delphox is not terrible by any means, but it's not great. It's just outclassed by pretty much every other Fire starter in existence, and it's certainly the least good starter for Gen 6.
The fact that Delphox is the worst Fire starter ever kinda goes to show just how universally good fire starters are.

Man, a Pokémon game that has the starter lineup of Chikorita, Fennekin, and Piplup would suck. Well, actually, not really. Fennekin would still be the obvious choice, because Delphox doesn't completely blow chunks like the other two.

  

The things around Froakie's (FRO-kee) neck are bubbles, in case you're wondering. Being a Water type, it's the best choice for the early game gyms in Gen 6.
This first stage starter doesn't appear in Smash, but unlike Tepig, where it was just arbitrarily left out, Froakie has a good reason to not be in it. Smash fans likely already know why.

Frogadier (FROG-uh-deer) is a thing. Nothing interesting to say, but I do dig it. One of my favourite middle evolutions, actually.

That's Greninja (greh-NIN-jah), and that's not a scarf, that's it's tongue. It becomes Water/Dark, which means that the trio of final evolutions in Gen 6 actually form a second triangle of type advantages. Fighting beats Dark, Dark beats Psychic, and Psychic beats Fighting. It's a nice touch.
Anyway, Greninja is very much the Ninja of the RPG class theme here. Or rogue, if you want to keep it strictly Dungeons and Dragons.

Greninja has a signature move, but it's not unique. "Water Shuriken" is also a move that the Pokémon Accelgor can learn in Gen 6. It's one of those multi-hit moves like Fury Swipes, but it has speed priority like Quick Attack. It usually doesn't gel well with Greninja's stats, weirdly enough. It's a physical attack in Gen 6.
Water Shuriken actually becomes a Special Attack in Gen 7. Probably because Greninja's Attack is pretty subpar.
In most cases though, Water Shuriken isn't that good of a move, anyway. So no big loss.

Greninja is an absolutely excellent Pokémon for playthroughs, even without Water Shuriken! It's blisteringly fast and hits pretty hard with Special Attacks. Combine this with the free Mega Charizard you're given in Gen 6, and you've got a great couple of Pokémon to tackle the game with.
And on top of that, Greninja's Hidden Ability is "Protean", an absolutely insane ability that changes Greninja's type to whatever attack it's about to use. Being able to change your type on the fly like that is one of the most effective tools a Pokémon can have. Doing so while attacking at the same time is amazingly efficient! And because the ability happens before the actual attack, this means that every attack Greninja does benefits from STAB (Same Type Attack Bonus) and does 50% more damage then normal.

Boy, Delphox may have been a complete flop with the fans, but Greninja certainly wasn't. Kalos's resident ninja frog became an instant hit. Hadn't seen a sudden popularity surge on a Pokémon since Lucario really. So it wasn't really surprising when it was the new playable Pokémon character in the fourth Smash game.

Yeah, this is why Froakie doesn't appear in Smash. It's also a Pokémon that I really hope @BowserBasher can spell correctly by now. (Genuine question, did you even realise it was a starter Pokémon?) The lead developer of the Smash games, Masahiro Sakurai, has said that he likes ninjas, so with X and Y having a ninja based Pokémon that's stupid popular, the perfect character fell into his lap.

Naturally, Greninja in Smash is very quick when it comes to movement and it's attacks were mostly swift as well, but various patches the game got would not be kind to it. The poor thing got nerfed... a lot... So much so, that whenever an update came out that didn't nerf Greninja, it was considered a massive victory. The phrase "Better nerf Greninja" actually became a bit of a meme because of this. It's weird, at launch, it was decent, but not so powerful that it warranted such a hammering. A lot of it's attacks have so much endlag now in Ultimate. A shame...

OK, so Greninja has another form, but it's weird, it's not a form that originates from any game.
It's also really lame.

Ash-Greninja... God, I hate this thing, it's such a downgrade, design wise. It's got a crummy name too.
As said crummy name implies, this form is based on the form that Ash Ketchum's Greninja takes because... friendship, I don't know. It's probably friendship.

Generally, the anime is kept seperate from the actual games, but in Gen 7, Greninja got a third ability (The only starter Pokémon that has three abilities) called "Battle Bond". If it knocks out an opposing Pokémon with that ability, it becomes Ash-Greninja. Ash-Greninja has very high stats and Water Shuriken becomes 20 power per hit and always attacks three times. It's kinda stupid how good it is. Which makes it very ironic, and hilarious, that Ash's Greninja lost a pivotal League match to some random Charizard. It wasn't even a Mega Evolution or anything. Ash is just that lame!

That said, Ash-Greninja doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. Battle Bond no longer transforms Greninja, it only boosts it's stats. And it's only a temporary boost (It'll go away if you switch it out), and it only works once per battle now. It also doesn't improve Water Shuriken anymore.

Even outside of Smash, poor Greninja still can't escape the nerf hammer.
Hell, the anime seems to have retconned it out. Flashbacks of scenes that orignally had Ash-Greninja only showed the normal Greninja form in the final season where Ash was the protagonist, so they seem to want to phase it out of the series as a whole.

Good, it's lame.

Actually, Greninja as a whole seemed to just vanish for quite a long time after the seventh generation. It's essentially absent from every Switch entry and only came back in the DLC for Scarlet/Violet. It's so weird, seeing how popular it is.
This annoyed me greatly, because the Shiny Greninja I spent months trying to get was stuck in my 3DS for 6 years, and now Shinies are effectively worthless anyway, so why did I even bother?

Anyway, better wrap this up before people realise I'm bitter.

So yeah, what's your favourite starter here?
No surprise, I adore Greninja. It's my favourite starter ever. It's such a cool design! Then again, I do have a bit of a bias for frogs... Seriously, the tongue scarf is such a clever idea. Top-tier design!

Chesnaught's really cool too. I think that Pokémon gets a bit of a bum rap, actually.

Edited April 12 by Glen-i

[Ashley]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

Ash-Greninja... God, I hate this thing, it's such a downgrade, design wise. It's got a crummy name too.

I for one am insulted

[Glen-i]

3 hours ago, Ashley said:

I for one am insulted

The thing has hair. Hair, for Christ's sake!

It's also a total jobber. Charizard, for Christ's sake! If it was Blaziken, then I could buy that, Greninja's weak to Fighting and Blaziken is super OP! But Charizard? Come on!

Quite frankly, you should be insulted by this thing co-opting your name, not at me.

Edited March 15 by Glen-i

[BowserBasher]

5 hours ago, Glen-i said:

It's also a Pokémon that I really hope @BowserBasher can spell correctly by now. (Genuine question, did you even realise it was a starter Pokémon?)

Greninja? Yeah I knew he was a starter, mainly from Pokemon Go. He’s fun to play as. Jump on ya head!

[Cube]

Out of all of these, the only one I'm familiar with is Greninja. Partly due to being included in Smash Bros Wii U/3DS and partly because Ash-Greninja my main damage dealing pokémon for however far I got though Pokémon Moon - even with it disobeying orders due to being a high level (you got him at the start if you played the demo or something like that), it still performed amazingly well (really, it was kind of cheating). 

In Sun/Moon, the Greninja you get in this way is supposed to be the actual Greninja that Ash has in the anime.

 

5 hours ago, Glen-i said:

So... Braixen... This middle evolution is strange. It's the third, and last, middle evolution that is more popular then the final evolution. But unlike Ivysaur and Grovyle, Braixen isn't popular because of a game outside of the mainline series, Braixen is popular because it's evolution is definitively unpopular!

It's so unpopular that when Pokkén was released for WiiU, Braixen was a playable character in that instead of that final evolution.

I have never seen the general reception of a starter Pokémon turn sour as much as when Braixen evolves into Delphox. Which is strange, because this one finally breaks the pattern of Fire Starters by being Fire/Psychic this time. I'm not even sure why it's so universally derived, it seems fine to me as a concept.
That concept is mage, by the way. In case it wasn't obvious from the artwork.

The final evolution doesn't even look that bad. Braixen and Delphox both look like evolutions more so than any of the other two sets of starters. That said, both designs do seem like they're from a cartoon with anthropomorphic animals than Pokémon - I could easily see Braixen chatting to Fox McCloud, while Delphox looks more like a wise, motherly character.

Also, you haven't even gotten to what is by far the worst case of a middle evolution to final evolution of a starter Pokémon. I used an Everstone for that one to make sure it never reached its final evolution.

[Glen-i]

7 minutes ago, Cube said:

Also, you haven't even gotten to what is by far the worst case of a middle evolution to final evolution of a starter Pokémon. I used an Everstone for that one to make sure it never reached its final evolution.

I think I have an inkling on what one you're talking about (Don't tell me, I'll make it clear which one I think it is when we get to it) and if I'm right, then we're not friends anymore.

Because I think it's the single biggest improvement evolution has ever given a starter Pokémon.

Edited March 15 by Glen-i

[Dcubed]

20 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

I think I have an inkling on what one you're talking about (Don't tell me, I'll make it clear which one I think it is when we get to it) and if I'm right, then we're not friends anymore.

Because I think it's the single biggest improvement evolution has ever given a starter Pokémon.

Yeah... I think I know too...

Anyway, Chesnaught deserves better, so does Delphox; like, come on! There's nothing wrong with them!

Actually Greninja deserves better too.  Leave the poor thing alone Sakurai!

[bob]

I had heard some of these names, but I think this is the first time I've ever seen pictures of them. Couldn't have picked those grass starters out of a lineup.

The fire starter starts off well, but quickly evolves into looking like the fox Maid Marian from Robin Hood.

Greninja I had heard of, and seen due to the reasons already posted.