Dcubed Posted March 24, 2023 Posted March 24, 2023 It's basically a done deal at this point now. There's no ground left for the FTC to stand on.
Dcubed Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 (edited) WTF!? This is an outrageous decision! Cloud gaming is the sticking point? A near non-existent market that ABK isn’t even contributing towards anyway? Never mind the >100 million Switch owners who stand to benefit from the deal. This decision literally takes away choice in the Cloud Gaming market because those games aren’t available anyway! And they decide this after rejecting Sony’s concerns about foreclosure in the console market? I can’t even, the logic on display is just so ridiculous! I can’t see this standing, there’s no way that this decision won’t be fought and eventually overturned. It’s just insane at this juncture to pin everything on a market that effectively doesn’t even exist! Edited April 26, 2023 by Dcubed
Julius Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 I don't know nearly enough to contribute to this overall discussion, but it's given me a good chuckle to see the move getting blocked (for now - don't really doubt it'll go through at some point) on what I would say is comparatively one of the smaller sticking points (cloud gaming vs, uh, pretty much every other reason to block a huge deal like this) and the randomly dropped-in hashtags in that tweet lmao Have been keeping up with the posts in this thread though, got to say I appreciate your breakdowns @Choze, great to have some fair and level-headed insight into what a lot of this stuff actually means
Ronnie Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 Yeah it's good to have some level-headed #insight into this, thanks @Choze 1
Dcubed Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Choze said: Its posts like these that tell me most people have absolutely ZERO clue about competition or innovation. On my end, I have contributed to industry reports and academic research. Startups, patent, innovation growth etc. are in their worst recorded states and require the break up of these big tech companies. Regulation / policing is still very soft even with this decision. At the end of the day these agencies and more need to act. Both right and left support reigning in big tech. The value and societal harm is too high for them not to. Worst of all they are already too late in many ways. The decision itself would make sense if it were relating to the console market, where there is actually a legitimate risk of foreclosure. But they’ve already dismissed Sony’s claims regarding the console market, they’ve already accepted the merger on those grounds. The part of this decision that makes no sense is the focus on the Cloud Gaming market. A market segment that barely even exists, let alone has any true relevancy to the British public, and a market segment that ABK has actively refused to even participate in in the first place! How can you state that the decision protects the availability of ABK’s games when their games aren’t even available to this market segment anyway!? This decision is actually preventing ABK’s games from being made available to the Cloud Gaming segment! It’s actually taking away choice within the UK market! Never mind the hundreds of millions of other devices and consumers that the merger would actually be bringing ABK’s games to within the console space. If the CMA had blocked the merger on grounds of foreclosure within the console space, then at least the decision would make some sense. But here? No, it’s totally nonsensical and utterly baffling. If they’re really doing this to set an example to Big Tech, they’re going about it in a totally dishonest and disingenuous manner. Block the merger on grounds of foreclosure in the console space against Sony if you want to set an example, don’t throw baseless flimsy bullshit arguments around regarding the irrelevant Cloud Gaming sector. This is an entirely politically driven decision where the only real beneficiaries of this decision are the CMA themselves (international political clout) and Sony. Edited April 26, 2023 by Dcubed
Sheikah Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 Never mind the >100 million Switch owners who stand to benefit from the deal. This decision literally takes away choice in the Cloud Gaming market because those games aren’t available anyway!Nintendo were to only receive Call of Duty. Meanwhile we have seen already with Microsoft's acquisition of Bethesda that they are making many previously multiplatform games/series exclusive.It's certainly interesting that you think this would have been a good thing for gamers. Consolidation of huge companies is a terrible thing for consumers, under no circumstances should anyone be siding with the deal.
Sheikah Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 How can you state that the decision protects the availability of ABK’s games when their games aren’t even available to this market segment anyway!? This decision is actually preventing ABK’s games from being made available to the Cloud Gaming segment!It’s actually taking away choice within the UK market!It's not though, is it? Nothing is preventing ABK from going the cloud route, or even partnering with Microsoft to bring those games to cloud services. If they choose not to, that's on them. The CMA's issue was that Microsoft could become extremely dominant in this emerging space if they had this additional content, which is completely justified. Cloud gaming is obviously going to be the future as technology improves and they'd be making a big mistake if they just let Microsoft become too dominant.
Dcubed Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Sheikah said: It's not though, is it? Nothing is preventing ABK from going the cloud route, or even partnering with Microsoft to bring those games to cloud services. If they choose not to, that's on them. The CMA's issue was that Microsoft could become extremely dominant in this emerging space if they had this additional content, which is completely justified. Cloud gaming is obviously going to be the future as technology improves and they'd be making a big mistake if they just let Microsoft become too dominant. Sure. Just like how 3DTVs were going to be the future. And how VR was going to be the future. Cloud Gaming is well over a decade old at this point and it has completely failed to catch fire in that time. I'm sure that it'll happen any day now though... 42 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Nintendo were to only receive Call of Duty. Meanwhile we have seen already with Microsoft's acquisition of Bethesda that they are making many previously multiplatform games/series exclusive. It's certainly interesting that you think this would have been a good thing for gamers. Consolidation of huge companies is a terrible thing for consumers, under no circumstances should anyone be siding with the deal. COD will ultimately be coming to multiple new platforms (including other Cloud gaming providers such as NVidia, Ubutus and Boosteroid) as a result of the merger; and Sony have been optioned to be included as well. No matter how you slice it, the merger is ultimately good for the majority of video game consumers and platform holders. It's only really Sony that stand to lose anything... you know, the big dominant market leader with an inassaliable lead in the "high-end" sector of the market... the one that really needs the help competing... the one who just so happens to be a "Big Tech" company in its own right... There is nothing logical about this decision. It's pure politics and protection of Sony's current status quo market position. Edited April 26, 2023 by Dcubed
Sheikah Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Dcubed said: Sure. Just like how 3DTVs were going to be the future. And how VR was going to be the future. Are you really going to compare 3DTVs to cloud gaming? Cloud gaming has continuously improved and will take over once the technology reaches a certain point. It's also dependent on internet connection speeds, which have improved dramatically over the last 10 years, and continue to improve. Once you can stream games with negligible input lag there will basically be no reason for expensive dedicated hardware boxes anymore. It's inevitable we will reach that point given how technology continues to progress. To return to your point - 3DTVs were a realised technology, it's not like they needed refining. People just didn't care for them. But cloud gaming, when it reaches a technological point where it's sufficiently indistinguishable from regular gaming, will be the superior option. Quote COD will ultimately be coming to multiple new platforms (including other Cloud gaming providers such as NVidia, Ubutus and Boosteroid) as a result of the merger; and Sony have been optioned to be included as well. No matter how you slice it, the merger is ultimately good for the majority of video game consumers and platform holders. It's only really Sony that stand to lose anything... you know, the big dominant market leader with an inassaliable lead in the "high-end" sector of the market... the one that really needs the help competing... There is nothing logical about this decision. It's pure politics and protection of Sony's current status quo market position. You just ignored the whole point that there are multiple other (non COD) series that Microsoft would acquire that will almost certainly be ringfenced...just as Microsoft have already done with Bethesda content. So this is BAD for gamers. The COD deal is also only 10 years (yes, only; or 1.3 generations). After which they are free to ringfence that too. Meanwhile if ABK remained unacquired then COD plus other ABK titles would continue to be multiplatform anyway. And to hell with Switch to be honest, it's a garbage console in terms of hardware that nobody actually wanting a good experience would even consider playing COD on. Needs to be said. Microsoft would have absolutely no intention of releasing COD on Switch had they not been trying to make a case about expanding access. So I'd have expected any releases to be serviceable box tickers at best. Many people with a Switch also have another console so it's not like the hundred odd million extra Switch gamers being quoted is even accurate. Many could easily access COD already if they choose to, and let's be honest, if they're into COD they will already be playing it on a PS4/5 or Xbox. Those Switch gamers who have a PS4/5 losing access to COD would not suddenly be happy they can play it instead on Switch. And as popular as COD is, ABK have a lot of other hugely popular titles that all add up, like Overwatch and Diablo that could have sequels pulled away from multiple consoles including Switch (which OW2 is currently on). Edited April 26, 2023 by Sheikah
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 27, 2023 Posted April 27, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Sheikah said: But cloud gaming, when it reaches a technological point where it's sufficiently indistinguishable from regular gaming, will be the superior option. Only if it is able to run offline. Maybe stored on some sort of portable device you could use on different devices, maybe lend to a friend and play on the go. Edited April 27, 2023 by EEVILMURRAY
Sheikah Posted April 27, 2023 Posted April 27, 2023 Only if it is able to run offline. Maybe stored on some sort of portable device you could use on different devices, maybe lend to a friend and play on the go.Well that's the thing, the way internet is going, connectivity will eventually not be a problem.
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 27, 2023 Posted April 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Sheikah said: 3 hours ago, EEVILMURRAY said: Only if it is able to run offline. Maybe stored on some sort of portable device you could use on different devices, maybe lend to a friend and play on the go. Well that's the thing, the way internet is going, connectivity will eventually not be a problem. Worldwide consistent internet for allow for lag free gaming wherever you go? It may be coming, but I doubt we'll see that kind of stability in our lifetime.
Sheikah Posted April 27, 2023 Posted April 27, 2023 Worldwide consistent internet for allow for lag free gaming wherever you go? It may be coming, but I doubt we'll see that kind of stability in our lifetime. Given that when I was a teenager we used to connect to internet via dialup, and now we can stream in 4K, I think you are drastically underestimating what will be achieved in our lifetimes.
Sheikah Posted April 27, 2023 Posted April 27, 2023 Thanks Julius, Ronnie. The EU may also block after this. Keen on the result. Its a good surprise that the CMA are stepping up. The US is looking exciting with the Google breakup case. The EU is making more progress on privacy and data. MS are looking really awful right now. Same attitude as with the US FTC case. Just a reminder of why these firms are so dangerous. MS think they should be above the police. RE: Cloud. Things can happen suddenly. Which is why this enforcement is necessary (ofcourse MS already are ahead). Also the mainstream may not care about lag at some point. Cloud can take gaming beyond the limitations of devices. Look at how mobile devices like the Switch design are important again. Many will enjoy not worrying as much about the specs. You're dead right about their attitude. Disgusting bile they're coming out with because they've been denied, threatening the UK and mouthing off against the CMA. Makes them look completely dense, in all honesty.
Jonnas Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I'm happy the merger has been blocked. Thing was smelly af. I don't care that they did it via cloud gaming, anti-monopoly law can be that weirdly specific. As for the debate regarding the future of cloud gaming... I'm sure the technology will make it viable soon, but it's likely to be limited in scope regardless (beyond the obvious geographical limitations). By definition, it's going to be less reliable than an actual file/download. Anything that's fast-paced and dependant on precise controls (such as a fighting game) is likely to avoid that route, as will many things handheld/portable. But that doesn't mean it can't be useful as its own marketplace. You can have slower games (such as turn-based strategy, farming sims, etc.) run on it without latency/slowdowns ever causing much issue, for example. I can see streaming platforms adopt videogame libraries in the near future, even (just not very well curated ones). 1
Sheikah Posted May 15, 2023 Posted May 15, 2023 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_2705 What a terrible look for the EU. Proud of the UK CMA here! Also happy about the US stance. This was being used as a check by so many, to see if the EU were serious about regulating tech. Recent key appointments have been pro tech companies and now this makes for a bad look. I hope the US especially makes progress on their efforts. The EU remedies are laughable... MS has also hired the best of the best in law firms and lawyers to appeal the CMA. I hope the decision stays.It's good that the CMA doubled down though, makes me think that they're very likely to stick to their guns.
Ashley Posted July 11, 2023 Posted July 11, 2023 The FTC has agreed for Microsoft to purchase Activision: https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/11/23779039/microsoft-activision-blizzard-ftc-trial-win And the CMA is apparently going to reconsider it's earlier decision:
Dcubed Posted July 11, 2023 Posted July 11, 2023 Seems like the deal is as good as done at this point. The CMA know that they have no leg to stand on, with their argument being flimsier than a wet tissue with clinical depression.
Jimbob Posted July 12, 2023 Posted July 12, 2023 Be interesting to see what happens the next couple of days. Microsoft could close this deal by Friday at the earliest. I'm assuming they'll be in discussion with the CMA imminently (if not already)
Ashley Posted July 13, 2023 Posted July 13, 2023 On 11/07/2023 at 9:21 PM, Choze said: Well the FTC have not agreed whatsoever but the Judge has sided wholly with MS on the preliminary injunction. Sorry yes, the issue with checking these things on the go. In fact, the FTC has filed an appeal.
Dcubed Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 2 hours ago, Choze said: https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-appeals-court-refuses-ftc-request-pause-microsoft-deal-activision-2023-07-14/ And refused. It was nice to see the US regulators try. The challenge made a difference and no doubt the loud responses from many giant companies (and their supporters) have been absolutely terrible. It’s worth keeping in mind that literally every single publisher & platform holder has been publicly in favour of the deal… except for Sony. Everyone in the industry benefits from this acquisition, with the sole exception of Sony. Can’t say that I’d side with them on this one.
Sheikah Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 It’s worth keeping in mind that literally every single publisher & platform holder has been publicly in favour of the deal… except for Sony. Everyone in the industry benefits from this acquisition, with the sole exception of Sony. Can’t say that I’d side with them on this one.The customers don't benefit, and that's what this should be about. Giant industry mergers are always bad for the consumer.
Dcubed Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 13 minutes ago, Sheikah said: The customers don't benefit, and that's what this should be about. Giant industry mergers are always bad for the consumer. The 150 million + people who will newly gain access to COD on their platform of choice as a result of this deal will certainly disagree with you.
Sheikah Posted July 15, 2023 Posted July 15, 2023 The 150 million + people who will newly gain access to COD on their platform of choice as a result of this deal will certainly disagree with you.Millions will now lose access to new releases of lots of game series (look at what happened to Bethesda titles upon acquisition, before which all their titles were multiplatform). Not sure why you are only focusing on one game series when they own lots of others.On the subject of COD though, it now has a 10 year agreement so in 10 years we will be in a worse place than we are now. The new platforms to gain COD for the next 10 years like Switch are at most nice to have, certainly not the place most existing COD gamers would choose to play first. It's a box ticking exercise so that they can argue they're putting it on more platforms, and it certainly helped them push the deal through; but all the while people are ignoring the fact that in 10 years this series can go exclusive. 10 years is will mean this will likely happen next generation!Microsoft gamers will also no doubt see their Game Pass subscriptions go up, while ABK releases take the place of other titles that might have made it to Game Pass. So it's not like it's even a win for Microsoft gamers - they could play ABK games before, after all.
Recommended Posts