Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack: N64 & SEGA Mega Drive (& GBA!!)

[Julius]

Well, we've got threads for the NES and SNES Online apps, so here's one for the upcoming Expansion Pack, which will include N64 and SEGA Mega Drive games, as announced in the September 2021 Nintendo Direct. The Expansion Pack will be launching in late October 2021. 

Software

Nintendo 64

Launch line-up:

Quote

• Super Mario 64

• Mario Kart 64

• Star Fox 64 / Lylat Wars

• Yoshi's Story

• The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

• Dr. Mario 64

• Mario Tennis

• Operation Winback

• Sin & Punishment

Select titles, such as Mario Kart 64, will also include support for local and online multiplayer for up to four players. 

 

Future titles: 

Quote

• The Legend of Zelda: Majora’s Mask

• F-Zero X

• Banjo-Kazooie

• Mario Golf

• Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards

• Paper Mario

• Pokémon Snap.

 

SEGA Mega Drive 

Launch line-up:

Quote

• Castlevania: Bloodlines

• Contra: Hard Corps

• Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine 

• Ecco the Dolphin

• Golden Axe

• Gunstar Heroes

• M.U.S.H.A.

• Phantasy Star IV

• Ristar

• Shining Force

• Shinobi III

• Sonic the Hedgehog 2

• Streets of Rage

• Strider

 

Hardware

Wireless N64 and SEGA Mega Drive controllers will be made available to Nintendo Switch Online members. These will each be priced at £39.99 / €49.99. 

 

Other details

We have also had confirmation that all N64 games included in the service can be played in their 60Hz versions in Europe too.

The original European PAL versions will be available on select titles too, but this seemed to be one of the concerns I'd seen floated around about the service, so it's nice to get an update! 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Julius

[Helmsly]

 

[Ashley]

Mod note:

Moved Helmsey's post from the General Switch Thread to its own thread, then saw another thread was created so merged those two. 

[Sheikah]

 

Christ is that it? Only 9 games to begin with?

[Happenstance]

It's a shame that due to licensing issues I can't see WWF No Mercy ever being released. My old N64 was basically a wrestling machine and being able to go back and play that properly would have swayed me.

[killthenet]

2 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Chris is that it? Only 9 games to begin with?

To be fair to Nintendo the service will probably end up with less than 50 titles in total so 9 at launch is actually pretty generous when you think about it...

It is good that they've clarified that we'll get both 50 & 60hz in Europe though, limited library aside that was my biggest complaint from the scant information we've been given about the service

[Sheikah]

23 minutes ago, killthenet said:

To be fair to Nintendo the service will probably end up with less than 50 titles in total so 9 at launch is actually pretty generous when you think about it...

It is good that they've clarified that we'll get both 50 & 60hz in Europe though, limited library aside that was my biggest complaint from the scant information we've been given about the service

I disagree, if they're emulating the games and they've had years to do this they should really have a lot more than that to begin with - in fact I think they should have most games on there. If they want to get people to pay a subscription for it then they should really be looking to make it as attractive as possible. Right now it feels like a bit of a cash grab to get their most loyal fans subscribed over a long period of time to get the drip feed of content. I remember on past consoles they would release a few VC games every week over years.

I actually think paying more for this as well isn't great, Switch online might be around half the price of the others but it's missing very fundamental features like voice chat and messaging. Having these games included in the basic subscription price would have sweetened the deal in what is otherwise a very limited offering. As it stands right now I see very little reason to subscribe to this extra service, especially as I've already got Mario from the anniversary edition.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

I'm not sure voice chat and messaging are enough for me to want to pay (over?) double the subscription fee like on the other platforms.

But yeah, 9 games seems fine to me, especially as most of those are the biggest ones on the console. Releasing games gradually than all at once is just common sense from a business pov. Keeps engagement up. 

[Sheikah]

22 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I'm not sure voice chat and messaging are enough for me to want to pay (over?) double the subscription fee like on the other platforms.

But those services are so basic, without it NSO is basically a bit of a joke. Using a phone to message people and voice chat completely defeats the purpose of using NSO in this way, you may as well use Discord or even Whatsapp.

NSO might be half the price but it's not even a quarter of the offering of what the others are giving you. It's embarrassing, frankly - it's a service people subscribe to purely out of need, to play online.

22 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

But yeah, 9 games seems fine to me, especially as most of those are the biggest ones on the console. Releasing games gradually than all at once is just common sense from a business pov. Keeps engagement up. 

Reading these kinds of posts actually justifies Nintendo's approach. Nintendo fans are used to drip feeds and generally being ripped off, especially with regards to VC.

How would you feel if Netflix had only 9 shows on it?

[Glen-i]

9 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

NSO might be half the price but it's not even a quarter of the offering of what the others are giving you. It's embarrassing, frankly - it's a service people subscribe to purely out of need, to play online.

This is true. I still hate that I have to pay to play Smash and so on online.

10 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

How would you feel if Netflix had only 9 shows on it?

But I'm gonna have to correct you there. It's 23 games. Mega Drive is there as well.

[Sheikah]

13 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

But I'm gonna have to correct you there. It's 23 games. Mega Drive is there as well.

But only 9 N64 games.

If Netflix had only 9 shows (and let's say 14 short films) I doubt many people would subscribe. Nintendo is certainly in a unique situation; because of the types of fans they have it'll probably still have some uptake despite being a poor deal.

The Netflix comparison gets stranger still if you consider how Nintendo tend to start their virtual console from square one again each console. Again, imagine if every 5 years Netflix cleared out their entire library and started adding them back slowly again each month or so. You might think comparing to Neflix is weird but now they've made their VC a subscription service, I'd say it becomes a valid comparison.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

Isn't Netflix like £120+ a year? Feels weird to compare it to something that's £18 a year. If Netflix cost 1/7th the price and only had a dozen of their best, original streaming shows maybe it would be worth it to some people? Who knows.

Anyway, they don't want people having hundreds of old games to play, they want people playing new, Switch software. 

34 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

it's a service people subscribe to purely out of need, to play online.

Apart from Animal Crossing I never play online games. I happily pay £1.50 a month for all the NES/SNES games.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

16 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Isn't Netflix like £120+ a year? Feels weird to compare something that's £18 a year. If Netflix cost 1/7th the price and only had a dozen of their original streaming shows maybe it would be worth it, who knows.

Anyway, they don't want people having hundreds of old games to play, they want people playing new, Switch software. 

Apart from Animal Crossing I never play online games. I happily pay £1.50 a month for all the NES/SNES games.

The cheapest Netflix sub (which still gives you access to all content) is £5.99 a month - £71.88 a year. We don't know the cost of the Nintendo "extended" sub yet, right? The 18 quid a year is just for the basic NSO subscription, which doesn't include these N64 games.

I expect Nintendo's subscription will be a fair bit cheaper than Netflix, but the offering from Nintendo still looks incredibly slim. When you consider that Nintendo aren't having to actually make any shows/games like Netflix - just dump emulated ROMs, basically - I'd expect a lot more. The more they add the more subscribers they're likely to attract.

You only need to look at Game Pass to see that having a huge quantity of games people actually want to play is a great way of attracting subscribers.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

Come on, how many are subscribed to Netflix's 480p service?

Just now, Sheikah said:

The more they add the more subscribers they're likely to attract.

I don't think that's the case at all. Diminishing returns and all that. And if it were true, they'd do it, they're pretty smart. Lots of people on here claimed they should release BOTW and Mario Odyssey on the same day at launch because "that would sell more Switches", but it doesn't work like that.

[Sheikah]

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Come on, how many are subscribed to Netflix's 480p service?

What does that have to do with anything? Comparing the 480p service if anything is the most apt comparison - 480p videos compared with retro games.

Quote

I don't think that's the case at all. Diminishing returns and all that. And if it were true, they'd do it, they're pretty smart. Lots of people on here claimed they should release BOTW and Mario Odyssey on the same day at launch because "that would sell more Switches", but it doesn't work like that.

Of course it's the case, why do you think Game Pass has amassed a huge library of games people want to play. If they only had about 10 games on there do you think anywhere near as many people would subscribe? You really think having a larger/complete library would have no meaningful effect on subscriptions?

The only way I see the drip feed approach as potentially being better for them is because they have enough fans who would subscribe and stay subscribed over a longer period of time than they would have than if all the games were there at once. That suggests a lack of confidence in their product though, which I really don't think is warranted.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

16 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

What does that have to do with anything? Comparing the 480p service if anything is the most apt comparison - 480p videos compared with retro games.

You're comparing services, at least compare the standard subscriptions. 

16 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

why do you think Game Pass has amassed a huge library of games people want to play. If they only had about 10 games on there do you think anywhere near as many people would subscribe?

Game Pass is literally Xbox's main product they are pushing. There's almost nothing else that matters to them. Game Pass IS the Xbox platform. The only way they can compete this gen is if they flood it with quality.

Nintendo Switch is already wildly popular. And their new software sales are insane. NSO is for the occasional 20-40 year old nostalgia trip. They're completely different circumstances.

Believe me it isn't as simple as "add more N64 games all at once" = "more subscribers". Even if that were true (I don't think it move the needle much) it would affect their dedicated Switch software sales, which is 100x more important to them.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Ronnie

[Cube]

If dedicated Switch software sales were so important to them, there would be an option to buy these games.

[Glen-i]

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

But only 9 N64 games.

If Netflix had only 9 shows (and let's say 14 short films) I doubt many people would subscribe. Nintendo is certainly in a unique situation; because of the types of fans they have it'll probably still have some uptake despite being a poor deal.

I don't like that implication.

I don't see how Mega Drive games as a whole can be considered less valuable then N64 ones in this day and age.

[Sheikah]

20 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

You're comparing services, at least compare the standard subscriptions. 

I'm comparing like for like. The lowest Netflix subscription with videos in 480p vs emulated retro ROMs.

20 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Game Pass is literally Xbox's main product they are pushing. There's almost nothing else that matters to them. Game Pass IS the Xbox platform. The only way they can compete this gen is if they flood it with quality.

Yet you said that having more games on a subscription would not increase subscribers. You're now getting sidetracked on the purpose of Game Pass which is not the point. The point was that far fewer people would subscribe to Game Pass if they only had 10 games on the service. The exact same point stands with a VC library.

20 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Nintendo Switch is already wildly popular. And their new software sales are insane. NSO is for the occasional 20-40 year old nostalgia trip. They're completely different circumstances.

What does the sales of Switch games have to do with anything? I am looking solely at this subscription and its value. We don't know the price yet, but the launch offering is not great. They really ought to have a complete (or near complete) retro library that exists across generations. 

20 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Believe me it isn't as simple as "add more N64 games all at once" = "more subscribers". Even if that were true (I don't think it move the needle much) it would affect their dedicated Switch software sales, which is 100x more important to them.

Why would it? Dedicated Switch games are not going to be included in this subscription plan. Are you saying that their game sales would suffer as people only have so much time? That concept is clearly not true, you only need to look at the sales of games on say PS4, despite full games being included every month on Plus. People will still buy the games they want to play, despite having the most absurd back catalogues of unplayed games.

[Sheikah]

6 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

I don't see how Mega Drive games as a whole can be considered less valuable then N64 ones in this day and age.

You realise Nintendo themselves have previously charged more for N64 VC games than 16-bit SNES games, right?

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sheikah

[Glen-i]

1 minute ago, Sheikah said:

You realise Nintendo themselves have previously charged more for N64 VC games than 16-bit SNES games, right?

Yes, and I didn't like it then, either.

EDIT: About the Game Pass comparison, worth noting that non-Microsoft titles get removed from the service eventually. I found that out the hard way when I was playing through Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Glen-i

[Sheikah]

Yes, and I didn't like it then, either.

Regardless, it still answers your question. N64 games can be seen as costing more/having more value because the people who made the games even said so.

And it does make sense. N64 games are more recent, more graphically advanced, with generally higher budgets. Why shouldn't they cost more?

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Cube said:

If dedicated Switch software sales were so important to them, there would be an option to buy these games.

£50-60 software sales was so important to them. It should go without saying really. "Why buy WarioWare for £60 when I can buy Paper Mario on N64 for a tenner?" type thing. 

They know what they're doing.

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

Yet you said that having more games on a subscription would not increase subscribers.

On Nintendo Switch Online. The negatives would outweigh the marginal increase. No one is waiting for Destruction Derby 64 or Pilotwings 64 to suddenly sign up.

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

What does the sales of Switch games have to do with anything? I am looking solely at this subscription and its value. We don't know the price yet, but the launch offering is not great. They really ought to have a complete (or near complete) retro library that exists across generations. 

They know what they're doing. 

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

I'm comparing like for like. The lowest Netflix subscription with videos in 480p vs emulated retro ROMs.

That's not how it works. Compare the package that 99.9% of subscribers of one service (Netflix) gets, with the same on NSO.

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

Are you saying that their game sales would suffer as people only have so much time?

Yes I am saying that. You give people 100 N64 games to get through and it eats away at the rest of their software sales.

Quote

That concept is clearly not true, you only need to look at the sales of games on say PS4, despite full games being included every month on Plusd

What does this mean? "sales of games on PS4"? What kind of argument is that without data to back it up?

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Ronnie

[Ashley]

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

On Nintendo Switch Online. The negatives would outweigh the marginal increase. No one is waiting for Destruction Derby 64 or Pilotwings 64 to suddenly sign up.

No but if they offered Snowboard Kids and Beetle Adventure Racing...

And as a side point about who is watching 480p Netflix; nearly 30,000 are still using black and white TVs in the UK so you never know. Some people live in the past!