Nicktendo

Nintendo Switch Lite announced - Releasing Sept. 20

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6 hours ago, MindFreak said:

So you're suggesting that they have modified the Tegra X1 to perform lower (or replaced it with a cheaper variant with lower specs that are identical to the specs the OG Switch has when in handheld mode)? I guess that would be a valid and possible reason.

Pretty much. It's likely a smaller, more power efficient chip, capable of delivering the same performance in handheld mode but without the OG Switch's cooling requirement. I imagine we'll get a Digital Foundary video sooner rather than later.

From what I've read, the battery in the Lite is actually smaller than the OG, hence the reduced weight, but overall battery performance is longer, so a more efficient chip that requires less cooling makes sense.

 

@Sheikah I must disagree with your point about cost. Technically, most of the joycon components are still in the light, they just aren't detachable and don't feature HD rumble. It's not like they are just selling the screen and the fancy innards - there's still a cost for the non-detachable controls.

You also have to keep in mind that the £80 joycon cost contains a hefty mark up. I doubt they cost even a third of that to make.

Edited by Goron_3
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1 hour ago, Goron_3 said:

Pretty much. It's likely a smaller, more power efficient chip, capable of delivering the same performance in handheld mode but without the OG Switch's cooling requirement. I imagine we'll get a Digital Foundary video sooner rather than later.

From what I've read, the battery in the Lite is actually smaller than the OG, hence the reduced weight, but overall battery performance is longer, so a more efficient chip that requires less cooling makes sense.

 

@Sheikah I must disagree with your point about cost. Technically, most of the joycon components are still in the light, they just aren't detachable and don't feature HD rumble. It's not like they are just selling the screen and the fancy innards - there's still a cost for the non-detachable controls.

You also have to keep in mind that the £80 joycon cost contains a hefty mark up. I doubt they cost even a third of that to make.

I’d actually imagine that the Joy-cons are pretty expensive to make.  There’s a lot of tech in them.  First off is the bespoke analog stick (there is no other analog stick design that is as compact as the Joy-con one that supports clickable sticks; the materials are probably fairly pricey), then you have a blue-tooth 5.0 module for each Joy-con, the linear resonance actuators for HD Rumble, the motion sensors, the NFC chip, the Kinect style IR camera (and the onboard SOC that processes the IR camera data), the wireless charging rails, the batteries (per-Joycon) and finally the not insignificant manufacturing costs of cramming all of that tech into such a small device.

 

Most of the Joy-con components are actually gone.  All that remains is the NFC chip (which pays for itself in Amiibos) and the custom stick design.  The rest is all gone (the console’s own motion sensors and battery pick up the slack left behind though).

 

Likewise, similar USB c-HDMI docks are actually very expensive (Switch docks go for about the same price as your typical equivalent dock for mobile devices like the Surface Pro).  So there’s likely a not-insignificant cost here too.

 

As for the CPU/GPU? It’s just a die-shrunken version of the same Tegra X1 chip that’s in the current Switch.  Hell, chances are pretty likely that the flagship Switch model will start using them too (as it would be cheaper to manufacture just the smaller version than to continue the old 22nm node used for the current model).

Edited by Dcubed
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48 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

I’d actually imagine that the Joy-cons are pretty expensive to make.  There’s a lot of tech in them.  First off is the bespoke analog stick (there is no other analog stick design that is as compact as the Joy-con one that supports clickable sticks; the materials are probably fairly pricey), then you have a blue-tooth 5.0 module for each Joy-con, the linear resonance actuators for HD Rumble, the motion sensors, the NFC chip, the Kinect style IR camera (and the onboard SOC that processes the IR camera data), the wireless charging rails, the batteries (per-Joycon) and finally the not insignificant manufacturing costs of cramming all of that tech into such a small device.

 

Most of the Joy-con components are actually gone.  All that remains is the NFC chip (which pays for itself in Amiibos) and the custom stick design.  The rest is all gone (the console’s own motion sensors and battery pick up the slack left behind though).

 

Likewise, similar USB c-HDMI docks are actually very expensive (Switch docks go for about the same price as your typical equivalent dock for mobile devices like the Surface Pro).  So there’s likely a not-insignificant cost here too.

 

As for the CPU/GPU? It’s just a die-shrunken version of the same Tegra X1 chip that’s in the current Switch.  Hell, chances are pretty likely that the flagship Switch model will start using them too (as it would be cheaper to manufacture just the smaller version than to continue the old 22nm node used for the current model).

That Digital Foundry video can't come soon enough! 

The Switch really is a genius piece of innovation. As much as a love my new gaming PC, the fact the Switch is able to do what it does off a mobile processor is frankly astounding. 

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11 hours ago, Dcubed said:

As for the CPU/GPU? It’s just a die-shrunken version of the same Tegra X1 chip that’s in the current Switch.  Hell, chances are pretty likely that the flagship Switch model will start using them too (as it would be cheaper to manufacture just the smaller version than to continue the old 22nm node used for the current model).

In fact, Nintendo has already filed a change for Switch hardware at the FCC, stating they want to adjust CPU and storage on the current model:

nintendo_BKEHAC001_Letter_02_FCC_Class_I

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/7/10/20689379/nintendo-switch-update-fcc-change-cpu-nvidia-tegra-soc-nand

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Pretty much. It's likely a smaller, more power efficient chip, capable of delivering the same performance in handheld mode but without the OG Switch's cooling requirement. I imagine we'll get a Digital Foundary video sooner rather than later.
From what I've read, the battery in the Lite is actually smaller than the OG, hence the reduced weight, but overall battery performance is longer, so a more efficient chip that requires less cooling makes sense.
 
[mention=2464]Sheikah[/mention] I must disagree with your point about cost. Technically, most of the joycon components are still in the light, they just aren't detachable and don't feature HD rumble. It's not like they are just selling the screen and the fancy innards - there's still a cost for the non-detachable controls.
You also have to keep in mind that the £80 joycon cost contains a hefty mark up. I doubt they cost even a third of that to make.
Like Dcubed says I reckon there's probably more cost to the joycons than you think. Else I can't see why they are selling them at £70, when in the past their controllers like the Wii remote, gamecube pad etc. have all been pretty reasonable. I think it also makes sense not to look at the cost price for Nintendo since we are talking about what the customer is losing out on by paying £70 less. By paying £70 less, they are not getting the joycons which would cost them £70 to buy. Joycons obviously don't cost £70 for Nintendo to make but if you can't get them yourself for less than that then it's a valid argument.

Sure there is the cost of the controls on the Lite unit but given the omission of so much tech I cannot imagine this would come even close to a joycon, and you can't play with your friends with them. Then there's a lot of other features you are missing out on:

- Dock and TV play (dock is something like £80 on Nintendo's site, but third party alternatives available)
- Same level of console power (no dock means no docked mode, no 1080p)
- Screen size - 15% smaller
- 2 player - no joycon

Then there are also extras if you did want to buy a separate pair of joycons to play 2 player...no means of charging them (have to buy a charger for them), and a stand for the Switch.

In fact the dock alone is being sold on eBay for £40-50. So if you wanted, you could buy an original Switch and sell the dock, then have a larger screen handheld Switch with joycons for almost the same money as the Lite...

Ultimately what this all says to me is that it's overpriced. Sure people might not want the extra stuff that's with the original Switch but that doesn't mean Nintendo are giving a fair price. I think £165 would have been a fair opening price, with bundles later taking this to an effective price of £150.



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11 hours ago, Nicktendo said:

The Switch really is a genius piece of innovation. As much as a love my new gaming PC, the fact the Switch is able to do what it does off a mobile processor is frankly astounding. 

I'm sorry to hear that your gaming PC runs like a Switch :laughing:

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6 hours ago, Sheikah said:

Then there's a lot of other features you are missing out on:

And, of course, in the interest of fairness, things that you are getting on the Lite:

- Lighter

- Better battery life

- Higher resolution screen

- Sturdier

- More pocketable size

- A D-Pad

It’s very easy to say, Wait a sec! Nintendo are charging £70 for the dock and £80 for joycon and we’re not getting either of those, the Lite should be £50-75, tops!! But the reality is a little bit more nuanced.

 

Edited by Ronnie

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6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

It’s very easy to say, Wait a sec! Nintendo are charging £70 for the dock and £80 for joycon and we’re not getting either of those, the Lite should be £50-75, tops!! But the reality is a little bit more nuanced.

No one is saying it should be that cheap. @Sheikah even puts forward the number 150-165 like many others. 

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1 hour ago, MindFreak said:

No one is saying it should be that cheap. @Sheikah even puts forward the number 150-165 like many others. 

I think even that is completely unrealistic. £150... a whole £130 cheaper than the original? That's not how the comsumer electronics business works.

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And, of course, in the interest of fairness, things that you are getting on the Lite: - Lighter - Better battery life - Higher resolution screen - Sturdier

- More pocketable size

- A D-Pad

It’s very easy to say, Wait a sec! Nintendo are charging £70 for the dock and £80 for joycon and we’re not getting either of those, the Lite should be £50-75, tops!! But the reality is a little bit more nuanced.

 

30 min longer battery, lighter weight, more compact size - a fair chunk of that you can put down to the smaller, cheaper screen and lack of joycon innards rather than a neat refinement of the system. Resolution is not better (720p on both). 

 

D-pad is literally the only thing that is not as a result of a compromise (except...arguably you could say it is...it's there because you don't have joycons).

 

I'm not saying there is no purpose to this machine. There is. Some people will have no need for docked play, and prefer a lighter unit. But that does not justify the price IMO. I am not saying tally up every missing item/feature at full Nintendo RRP but at the same time...given the things they are not giving you I don't feel the price is justified. As I say you could buy a normal Switch and sell the dock for £50 and have a bigger screen handheld Switch with joycons for practically the same cost. I think £165 would have been a fair price given what is missing.

 

And look at you laughing at the idea of it being £165 quote. That is £35 less than what it is being sold for...hardly unrealistic. You are aware Nintendo slashed the cost of the N64 almost right away by £100? You make this too easy for me, Ronnie. ;)

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I haven't really been keeping up with this, but has anyone mentioned the fact that this Switch Lite wouldn't be able to natively support a Wired Ethernet connection?
That's gonna impact games like Smash and Splatoon.

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Yeah I’ve not really been following it either, but am I right in the fact that there is no rumble at all in this? That’ll make finding certain moons in Mario Odyssey pretty difficult. Also, my memory is pretty fuzzy but aren’t there certain shrines in BotW that require you to turn the controller all the way around for those motion puzzles? 

Not to mention you can’t really play Mario Party due to lack of a tabletop mode. Seems a bit too stripped down for me. If they included an option to dock it with a TV and use a pro controller, then it may be worth it but it’s a no buy from me. 

Edited by Dog-amoto

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6 minutes ago, Dog-amoto said:

Yeah I’ve not really been following it either, but am I right in the fact that there is no rumble at all in this? That’ll make finding certain moons in Mario Odyssey pretty difficult. Also, my memory is pretty fuzzy but aren’t there certain shrines in BotW that require you to turn the controller all the way around for those motion puzzles? 

I think they specify it as "No HD Rumble" so it's either a situation like you said or there'll be a basic rumble feature like you get with other consoles.

But yeah, quite a few games will be problematic without rumble.

That's probably why there's a Pokemon special edition of the Lite. It's one of the few first party titles that won't be compromised by the Lite's missing features.

Edited by Glen-i

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4 hours ago, Sheikah said:

You make this too easy for me, Ronnie. ;)

Make it easy for you in what way, to be wrong? You do that all on your own ;)

If you're going to list a bunch of things you're missing, at least be fair and list the things you are getting. And when I said better resolution, I meant a sharper picture. Same res in a smaller screen = more pixels per inch.

 

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Make it easy for you in what way, to be wrong? You do that all on your own

If you're going to list a bunch of things you're missing, at least be fair and list the things you are getting. And when I said better resolution, I meant a sharper picture. Same res in a smaller screen = more pixels per inch.

 

 

If you meant pixel density that's fine - but it's not what you originally said. That said, improved pixel density isn't much of a boast in this case - the 3DS XL had the better screen despite having the same resolution as the 3DS. When you're dealing with games with menus and small icons the larger screen made a huge difference.

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4 hours ago, Sheikah said:

If you meant pixel density that's fine - but it's not what you originally said. That said, improved pixel density isn't much of a boast in this case - the 3DS XL had the better screen despite having the same resolution as the 3DS. When you're dealing with games with menus and small icons the larger screen made a huge difference.

Any game/app that involved drawing (Especially the Art Academy series) was infinitely better on the XL screen.

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New version of the Switch for children can't play Pokémon Let's GO! either without additional Joy-Con, which seems crazy but there you go.

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32 minutes ago, Tim B said:

New version of the Switch for children can't play Pokémon Let's GO! either without additional Joy-Con, which seems crazy but there you go.

Let's Go plays quite well in handheld mode. I almost exclusively played it that way. 

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So technically... the Wii U lives on! :D (In the home button notification on the Switch Lite)

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Digital Foundry analysis is up:

 

Edited by MindFreak
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10 hours ago, S.C.G said:

So technically... the Wii U lives on! :D (In the home button notification on the Switch Lite)

To be fair, every joy-con has home buttons that lights up. Nintendo just hasn't put it into use yet. I hope we all get a plesant surprise when they do :D

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the switch lite basically looks like what the wii u should have been. I've more or less decided I'll wait for Nintendo's next console now, hoping mario odyssey gets re-released and splatoon 3 turns out well! For me the console is too deep in to interest me, Nintendo consoles have a tendancy to dry up on new software toward the end of their life, splatoon 2 no longer interests me (the single player needs a BIG upgrade to give it legs, and post splatfest the online side of the original became much less interesting). A switch pro could interest me, but I'm not sure. It would have to be like wii > wii U more than wii > wii mini, ie a new burst of fresh games to interest me. For the time being though I really think I'll miss out. This announcement came a bit late for my mate though, just bought his boy a switch and I think he may have done better with this switch lite (unless he plans on playing on it with his kid which is probably the case!)

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12 minutes ago, Pestneb said:

the switch lite basically looks like what the wii u should have been.

The Switch itself is what the Wii U should have been, but the tech wasn't available at the time.

10 minutes ago, Pestneb said:

I've more or less decided I'll wait for Nintendo's next console now

You might be waiting a while, given we're only two years in: Nintendo wants to ‘prolong the life cycle’ of the Switch beyond six years

13 minutes ago, Pestneb said:

For me the console is too deep in to interest me

What do you mean by this? Why wouldn't it interest you that a console is two years old and has a ton of great games? I would have thought that more appealing, than something that releases and barely has much at launch.

15 minutes ago, Pestneb said:

splatoon 2 no longer interests me (the single player needs a BIG upgrade to give it legs

It got a BIG single player dlc campaign, in addition to the single player that's already there.

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On 7/14/2019 at 10:38 AM, Ronnie said:

 

The Switch itself is what the Wii U should have been, but the tech wasn't available at the time.

You might be waiting a while, given we're only two years in: Nintendo wants to ‘prolong the life cycle’ of the Switch beyond six years

What do you mean by this? Why wouldn't it interest you that a console is two years old and has a ton of great games? I would have thought that more appealing, than something that releases and barely has much at launch.

It got a BIG single player dlc campaign, in addition to the single player that's already there.

I know I might be waiting a while, but they've spoken about this sort of thing for years, I still expect a successor in 2021/2022. Why am I no longer so interested? splatoon 2 = major interest for me, post splatfests it will be much less interesting.  I'm more interested in waiting and hoping for re-releases/improved sequels with the next console. Of course if I were to find a switch for around £120 with a good game I may be swayed, but I'm not holding my breath!

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