Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Hero-of-Time]

31 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

I think the PS5 will do just fine. They won’t necessarily have the big first party exclusives straight away but consoles these days (ignoring the Switch) are designed to keep up powerwise and be a lot simpler to develop on so any porting to get a good launch lineup shouldn’t that bad.

I totally agree it will do just fine. History has shown that a lineup without big hitting exclusives isn't really needed. Past PS consoles have done absolutely fine at launch without big first party hitters. The third parties are the ones that do the heavy lifting until the exclusives start being released. If Sony keep the marketing deals for things like CoD (still can't believe MS let that slip through their fingers) and FIFA then I imagine it will be business as usual and the console will fly out the gate.

[Dcubed]

2 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

To be fair, that's never been their style. Unlike every other console maker, they've always tried to finish strong in a consoles lifecycle. PS2 had things like God War 2 right at the end of its life and PS3 had things TLOU, Puppeteer and Beyond Two Souls not long before the PS4 arrived. 

Historically PS consoles have never had great launch lineups, IMO. The original console had a decent one but the rest of them have relied heavily on 3rd parties, with the PS3 being the worst.

That's very true.  Sony have never really had a console with a strong launch lineup (ironically, the PS console with the best launch lineup was the Vita of all things!).  I don't think they're going to start now with that either TBH.

 

But I think that's a mistake this time around... especially since they've really bolstered their 1st party output this generation and that's their only real software advantage over Microsoft.  Given that the PS5 is going to be undoubtedly launching at an astronomical price? I think that it might well struggle out of the gate this time as people lack an incentive to upgrade from their PS4s...

 

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

The days of the generation 'reset' are gone. PS5 is rumoured to be backwards compatible and if so it'll be a pretty easy sell - get the PS5 and carry on playing your old games (and your PS Plus games) as well as your new ones. No doubt we'll see cross generation games too which will have an advantage being played on PS5 (e.g. higher frame rate/resolution) so there's a good reason to just buy right away.

I agree.  We're not going to be seeing the big reset that we've seen in the past... But at the same time, we also aren't going to see the big impentus to upgrade that we did before, because most of the games will be cross-generation for a good couple of years or so and the new console prices are going to be sky high...

 

Quote

Unless Sony do something very strange you will see the majority of PS4 owners go PS5. What does Xbox even have to entice people over? From a software point of view the X1 didn't complete with the PS4, so what is there to suggest it'll be anything different this time?

... Microsoft has Game Pass; a huge feather in their cap (especially in the wake of the next generation and their eye watering hardware pricetags...).  They'll also have 3 generations of backwards compatibility, not just one.  They also have full cross-play/cross-save support with other platforms and they have synergy with Switch & PC on their side too.  Microsoft are also being a lot more agressive than Sony regarding pricing, services, developer support, aquisitions and marketing; and they are currently in control of the general gaming mindshare; with Sony's no-show at E3 and current lack of games to show currently biting them in the arse (the price they pay for selling the PS4 on half-empty promises throughout the generation).

 

Sony on the other hand are resting on their laurels and have been totally complaicent over the last two years.  They've grown arrogant; especially regarding anything to do with cross-play.  Right now, they think that their farts smell like dandilions; how quickly they forget that they only won this generation by default, because their competition destroyed themselves...

 

It isn't 2013 anymore.  Back then, the smartphone market was only just starting to kick into high gear, streaming services weren't really a thing (Netflix had only just launched in the UK) and retail was still the primary way that people bought games.  Subscription services are now becoming the big thing, and Microsoft are well ahead of Sony on that front.

 

Nothing is set in stone and it's still anyone's game to win (and Sony's to lose).  If Sony carry on with their current arrogant attitude, they may well find themselves back on the back foot again...

Edited October 20, 2019 by Dcubed

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, Sheikah said:

Unless Sony do something very strange you will see the majority of PS4 owners go PS5. What does Xbox even have to entice people over? From a software point of view the X1 didn't complete with the PS4, so what is there to suggest it'll be anything different this time?

Game Pass, for starters. And let's see what exclusive software they reveal at E3. All those studios will be working on something.

[Sheikah]

... Microsoft has Game Pass; a huge feather in their cap (especially in the wake of the next generation and their eye watering hardware pricetags...).  They'll also have 3 generations of backwards compatibility, not just one.  They also have full cross-play/cross-save support with other platforms and they have synergy with Switch & PC on their side too.  Microsoft are also being a lot more agressive than Sony regarding pricing, services, developer support, aquisitions and marketing; and they are currently in control of the general gaming mindshare; with Sony's no-show at E3 and current lack of games to show currently biting them in the arse (the price they pay for selling the PS4 on half-empty promises throughout the generation).

None of that matters compared to having games like Last of Us 2, God of War 2, Horizon 2, Demon's Souls, FFVII, etc.

Sorry to be blunt, but it doesn't. Game pass is financially a good deal from a customer perspective but if the games you have on it aren't the ones people are going crazy for then people will still get the PS5. If Game Pass was so enticing then you'd have seen tons of PS4 owners go out and buy an X1 in the last year or so, which hasn't really happened. Game pass in my view is also unsustainable as people are paying almost nothing for it (constantly getting trial periods for peanuts - Google it!) which is no doubt hurting the bottom line of the game developers since people aren't paying for their new games; either that or Microsoft are losing money by bankrolling them.

Also backwards compatibility going back beyond the previous generation will not affect anything, X1 has shown that while people like the idea of it it ultimately had no change in X1's fortunes. PS4 continued to outsell X1 big time.

Backwards compatibility with the last gen is a very good idea to have at day 1 though to ease the transition process. BC going further generations back and you're talking about something that is just nice to have.

Also to address your point of Sony's E3 no show and mindshare - could not disagree with you more. Bear in mind that Sony's appearance next year (wherever it may be held) will be focused on PS5, 2019 will be completely and utterly forgotten. It may as well not even have happened. Look at what happened with Nintendo at the E3 before the Switch was announced. It was terrible, but does anyone remember it? No! Is the Switch suffering because of it? Hell no! In fact you might even argue that by missing a year, there's even more anticipation on what they'll say next.
 

Sony on the other hand are resting on their laurels and have been totally complaicent over the last two years.

Could not disagree more.

Sony are their first party studios that have been working hard to make some fantastic games in the last few years, and continue to make them. Sony have therefore been doing the absolute most important thing as a console owner - working hard to make great games to support their games console. Microsoft have completely dropped the ball on this one - I can't think of many X1 exclusives of the same quality that I want to play. Where is X1's Bloodborne and God of War? Where is X1's Persona 5? Sony also continue to support the system with exclusives right up until the end - coming up are Last Stranding, TLOU2, Nioh 2. And they've got FFVII coming from S-E - a console exclusive they seem to have secured, at least for a time.

In terms of other things they've been up to, Sony also developed the most successful VR headset out there. Until Switch took over (which is understandable) they also had (and still have) a much more developed indie scene than X1. So forgive me, but I'm of the belief that Sony have been more than a little busy!

They've grown arrogant; especially regarding anything to do with cross-play.

It was never in their interest to allow cross play - nor would it ever be in the interest of anyone console manufacturer who was leading the generation. Why open up your console to cross play and give people an opportunity to buy an Xbox and still play with their existing PS4 friends? Not saying it's right, just that it made sense for Sony to wait until the next generation has nearly started before allowing it. Now they can go into the next generation with the practice in place, claim to be playing ball, while having been able to milk their situation for as long as possible.

Right now, they think that their farts smell like dandilions; how quickly they forget that they only won this generation by default, because their competition destroyed themselves...

I dislike this sentiment. They won the generation by making a great machine at a good price. People act like Microsoft gave them the win. While they certainly helped, you have to remember that it's seemingly easy for them to get it wrong - Sony slipped up with the PS3 at launch, if you remember. Nintendo also made colossal missteps with the Wii U around that time too. IIRC it was only Sony that went up to the developers and asked them what it was they wanted. They deserve full credit for keeping things like used games alive because it they also did what Microsoft did, they'd probably be dead right now!
 

Subscription services are now becoming the big thing, and Microsoft are well ahead of Sony on that front.

In what way? By having not having an unsustainable Game Pass? [emoji14]

No doubt there are more PS Plus subscribers than there are XBL gold users due to sheer numbers of PS4s out there, so not sure why you think Microsoft's subs are ahead?
 

Nothing is set in stone and it's still anyone's game to win (and Sony's to lose).  If Sony carry on with their current arrogant attitude, they may well find themselves back on the back foot again...

If Sony carry on with their current strategy of making games that are orders of magnitude better than their direct competition then they've pretty much got it in the bag. Microsoft will need to do something special to pull customers to their side - a Game Pass without games like TLOU2 or GoW2 isn't going to do much, at the end of the day.

[Hero-of-Time]

43 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

How quickly they forget that they only won this generation by default, because their competition destroyed themselves...

I can't agree with this statement. Yeah, Microsoft cocked up big time but saying that Sony were only successful because of this is just flat out wrong.

Everything about the PS4, like price, marketing, messaging was completely on point at the start of this generation.

Sony then secured partnerships for big games like FIFA, CoD and Destiny, as well as offering a place for Japanese developers to get back involved with console gaming, which has certainly seen a resurgence this generation.

They have also put out a range of fantastic 1st party games that aren't littered with microtransactions, something which happens all the time with MS studio games. A lot of Sony's games are rated very highly, with some probably even in discussions for favourite games of the generation.

They also brought VR to the table for the masses by creating a cheap entry level unit for the consumer to try out. 

The argument could be made that MS couldn't recover from their fumble at the start of the generation but then you just have to look at the PS3 to see how it is possible to do. That thing was dead on arrival but Sony managed to completely turn it around in terms of getting it into the hands of the consumer and even ended up catching the 360 in sales.

I think people often underestimate just what a loyal a large fanbase that Sony has, especially in Europe. This generation we've seen sales of their titles skyrocket when compared to the previous generations. It's very similar to the effect we are seeing with Nintendo's output on Switch.

Microsoft may be setting themselves up nicely for next gen but have they got a strong enough fanbase to push the numbers they need to be a big success? 360 was their biggest success but even that was caught by Sony's worst console. You also have to factor in that MS really only has 1 main market. Nintendo owns Japan and MS keeps treating most of Europe like a red headed stepchild. The US is where they keep concentrating on and even that market has been eaten away by both Sony and Nintendo.

[S.C.G]

Sony have done well this generation, that's undeniable, though they have also been arrogant around more than a few issues such as cross-play etc, let's just hope that they actually get their house in order when it comes to sorting out this "power-stuggle" between their different regional offices, that sounds like something which needs addressing right away.

Microsoft's Game Pass will not continue at the same level of subscription without cost to the long-term games sales and eventually a large potion of the industry in time, the price structure will be adjusted, I expect they'll try and tie some of it in further with Xbox Live but if people want more access to everything then they'll have to pay a lot more in the long run, either that or the price stays low and then hardly anyone buys physical Xbox games any more or even buys them outright digitally any more because they'll have no need to; it might seem like a good deal initially but I can't and won't support it.

Nintendo's doing great with the Switch, they just need to sort out their online still, the SNES/NES games are nice but the online service can and should be better, increase the price by a little bit if they need to but they can offer so much more even on a basic level, like voice chat on the console? Don't force your user-base to use a mobile app or just resort to Discord... although right now, I'm at the point where I'm not that bothered any more, the only games I play online on the Switch are Mario Kart which... isn't the best thing to have voice chat on when you get hit by a red shell for the tenth time in a race and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate which N-E may well be soon starting a podcast featuring Smash gameplay coupled with talk about games, so Discord will be used for that. But anyway, more options wouldn't go amiss.

Right now, I don't want to buy any new consoles, it would be very hard to justify buying a new Xbox console, more likely easier to justify a PS5 but really... anything could happen in this generation, we don't really know one way or the other, all I know is that we have some time yet to enjoy the current generation of consoles so I'm going to do that while I can without the thought of buying a new console until we know more.

But... if I can get the cash for it and if I think it's worth it, then yes I'll likely get a PS5 at launch.

Edited October 20, 2019 by S.C.G

[Goafer]

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

Also backwards compatibility going back beyond the previous generation will not affect anything, X1 has shown that while people like the idea of it it ultimately had no change in X1's fortunes. PS4 continued to outsell X1 big time.

 

I was in Gamestation once and someone was buying a PS3 and discussing with the staff about which one to get. They mentioned that they were interested in the one that had backwards compatibility with the PS2. The staff member said something that will always stick with me: "Why would you spend all that money on a new console, only to play old games?".

That's basically my view on backwards compatibility. If I'm spending all that money on a console, it would be a massive waste of money to use it to play old games (especially when I already have a PS4 that can do it just fine).

The only benefits of backwards compatibility I can see are:

Bigger library at launch: PS5 games are the only reason I'd upgrade from my PS4, so being able to play games I can already play isn't a selling point to me. Plus, if the PS5 launch library isn't big enough to entice someone, maybe don't buy one until it is?
Convenience of only having one console: Again, to me the point of spending £400+ on a current gen console is to play current gen games. I've barely touched my PS3 since the PS4 came out, so I imagine it'll be the same with PS4 once PS5 comes out.
People who don't already own a PS4: This doesn't apply to me, but I suppose I can see some benefit. PS4s are pretty cheap now though, so I can imagine anyone who wants to play PS4 games probably already have one.

[Dcubed]

Microsoft were in the same position going into this generation, that Sony we’re going into the next.  The 360 was a runaway hit, especially during its second life with Kinect, well ahead of the PS3, and nobody thought that they could do wrong.

 

And then they blew it... in spectacular fashion.  They conceded the entire generation through a single 2 hour long presentation.  Just like that, ALL of the goodwill and brand loyalty they cultivated over 8 years through the 360 was shattered into 1,000 pieces.

 

I’m not trying to say that Microsoft are definitely gonna win this time around; all I’m saying is that they’ve positioned themselves well to come out swinging.  Sony winning next gen is by no means a sure thing... If history should’ve taught us anything it’s that pride comes before a fall, and that nothing is certain in this industry.

 

To win this generation, all Sony had to do was to just not screw up, and just put out a generic box for a reasonable price.  They did that and they won.

 

They did well to hold their ground throughout the generation too.  PS4 Pro was arguably not quite the upgrade that it should’ve been, but it did well enough to keep the active user base from leaving for Xbox/PC.  PS VR was also a moderate success; probably not the break-out hit that Sony were expecting and hoping for, but it’ll no doubt be forward compatible and will continue to see support on PS5.

 

Credit where credit is due, Sony did a good job of holding their ground and staving off potential threats throughout the first 2/3 of the generation.  However, these last two years have not been great and they’ve not been on their best form.  They pushed out the last set of titles that they promised all the way back near the launch window period and scored a winner with Spider Man (as well as a big win acquisition with Insomniac; a move that came as a direct response to Microsoft’s recent aggressive buying up of studios).

 

Microsoft bollocked up this generation; nobody with a working brain cell would deny that.  However, in this last third of this generation, they’ve made huge strides in the right direction and they’ve come out with some genuine disruptive innovations like Game Pass.  I think that this next Gen fight is far from decided; and that Sony really need to drop their pride and really start getting more aggressive again.

 

Buying Insomniac and exclusive content in games like COD is a start.  They need to really follow through, and to stop relying on being reactive to the competition. They need to be proactive, or else they’re gonna get taken by surprise this time around.

Edited October 20, 2019 by Dcubed

[Mandalore]

For me, Microsoft lost it a lot earlier than that E3 conference. Mid way through the last generation they started focusing on streaming services and Kinect. They shut down 1st party studios and focused on just Halo, Gears and Forza. It had all gone stale in the last few years of the consoles life.

When the 360 first launched, there were many appealing things which convinced me to get one. With Nintendo taking a different direction with the Wii, 360 was the best place to play all the big multi-format games. It had great exclusives like Mass Effect and Gears of War. There was the potential of Rareware games, still a very enticing name for any Nintendo gamer back then. There was also Xbox Live Arcade, which offered something unique at the time. All these reasons no longer applied by the time the Xbox One and PS4 came along.

In contrast, the PS4 is having a very strong final year. Sony has a wide variety of great exclusives and I'm confident they'll continue making them for PS5. The new console will most likely be the best place to play multi-format games again, or at least on par with Microsoft's console. A lot can change in a year, but as things stand I can't see myself jumping on board with Microsoft again.

[Sheikah]

I was in Gamestation once and someone was buying a PS3 and discussing with the staff about which one to get. They mentioned that they were interested in the one that had backwards compatibility with the PS2. The staff member said something that will always stick with me: "Why would you spend all that money on a new console, only to play old games?".That's basically my view on backwards compatibility. If I'm spending all that money on a console, it would be a massive waste of money to use it to play old games (especially when I already have a PS4 that can do it just fine).

The only benefits of backwards compatibility I can see are:

Bigger library at launch: PS5 games are the only reason I'd upgrade from my PS4, so being able to play games I can already play isn't a selling point to me. Plus, if the PS5 launch library isn't big enough to entice someone, maybe don't buy one until it is?

Convenience of only having one console: Again, to me the point of spending £400+ on a current gen console is to play current gen games. I've barely touched my PS3 since the PS4 came out, so I imagine it'll be the same with PS4 once PS5 comes out.

People who don't already own a PS4: This doesn't apply to me, but I suppose I can see some benefit. PS4s are pretty cheap now though, so I can imagine anyone who wants to play PS4 games probably already have one.

 

 

Well the argument for many is that you're going to buy a PS5 anyway to carry on playing games for the next 7 years, it's just a matter when, and if there's cross gen games coming out that play better on PS5 then that's a good reason to upgrade immediately. The sooner you upgrade, the sooner you get a better experience. If you buy a whole year later you might get a small reduction in price or bundle, so it's up to the buyer whether the performance upgrade is worth it. For me it usually is.

 

That interview with Mark Cerny suggested some neat features such as drastically reduced loading times in games, so if that was something you could get with new cross gen games then I'd be very interested.

 

With regards to backwards compatibility with the gen that immediately went before, this could be pretty useful in today's world. There are a lot of games people play an awful lot now, day after day, like the biggest game in the world - Fortnite. Being able to say the PS5 can play it day 1 as well as new PS5 games would be a massive boon.

 

 

 

[Sheikah]

17 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Microsoft bollocked up this generation; nobody with a working brain cell would deny that.  However, in this last third of this generation, they’ve made huge strides in the right direction and they’ve come out with some genuine disruptive innovations like Game Pass.  I think that this next Gen fight is far from decided; and that Sony really need to drop their pride and really start getting more aggressive again.

See, I don't understand how Game Pass is either good for the gaming industry or an innovation, and I certainly don't see how it's sustainable in its current form. I would be very interested to hear why you thoughts as to why this should be a role model.

With Game Pass, developers are either getting a fraction of the money they would normally take or Microsoft are bankrolling them.

Here's an example - Gears 3 sold 3 million copies at retail in its opening week. In the UK charts at least, at retail Gears of War 3 sold 20 times better than the newly released Gears of War 5.

Yet...Gears of War 5 had 3 million "players" at launch. What gives? Well, you can bet your ass the vast majority of those digital players are doing it on Game Pass. Game Pass can be continuously renewed via a seemingly never-ending offer, meaning people can play for $1. You can also get a crazy deal where you convert your XBL subscription into Game Pass. Long story short, people are playing a number of games on the Game Pass for a minuscule fraction of what they'd be paying if they bought the game up front. We're not talking a half price saving here either, we're talking tens of times cheaper than if they were to actually buy the games.

I start to wonder if this is an image thing, like it was with the Xbox One X. Microsoft want to appear to be doing well or being the best. Because they're almost giving their games away with Game Pass they can boast about having lots of "players" at launch and how many people they've convinced to sign up for Game Pass. And with the Xbox One X, I bet they hated having the inferior powered console for all those years so they went overboard by releasing a very expensive machine so late into the generation (450 quid for a console refresh!). But hey, they could then proclaim that they have the most powerful console.

17 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Buying Insomniac and exclusive content in games like COD is a start.  They need to really follow through, and to stop relying on being reactive to the competition. They need to be proactive, or else they’re gonna get taken by surprise this time around.

Can you give some examples of how Sony are being reactive? The only thing I can think of is that they were slow to adopt cross play with other consoles, but that made sense given they are generation leaders. Other than that, they continue to release the best games of the generation while their direct competitor has done very little.

[Hero-of-Time]

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

I start to wonder if this is an image thing, like it was with the Xbox One X. Microsoft want to appear to be doing well or being the best. Because they're almost giving their games away with Game Pass they can boast about having lots of "players" at launch and how many people they've convinced to sign up for Game Pass. 

I think that is certainly part of it. It's helping them spin a narrative about users and hours played. Microsoft stopped reporting numbers for their console sales a while back now, mainly due to how badly they were when compared to the competition, but now instead report on things like how many hours users are spending on their console. It's a lot of smoke and mirrors and Game Pass has helped push this narrative.

I've quite like having Game Pass ( only subscribed for Gears 5 ) but it's not something i'll continue to invest in. I prefer ownership of my goods. Also, like you, I do wonder what kind of negative effects this is is and will have on the industry. It feels like some kind of mobile type strategy with the whole race to the bottom thing. I'm very interested to see how the whole thing will play out in the next few years. 

[Ronnie]

22 hours ago, Goafer said:

The staff member said something that will always stick with me: "Why would you spend all that money on a new console, only to play old games?".

For the same reason people go back and watch films from 5-10+ years ago?

At the end of the day, it's a nice thing to have. It's inclusion doesn't hurt anyone and Microsoft did a good job getting it in this gen, one of the many good moves they've made in recent years.

[S.C.G]

I wonder if Microsoft will keep up with the backwards compatibility once their new console comes out? I believe their words were something along the lines that they would be stopping making backwards compatible games this generation, signifying that we wouldn't see any more on the Xbox One, maybe they'll make them exclusive to the new Xbox somehow? Which wouldn't make much sense if the Xbox One is capable of running them, which it is but who knows, I recall the wording being interesting anyway so it could mean anything.

If Sony can find a way to make the PS5 backwards compatible with all previous Playstation generations then that would be good but with the way that they've worded things recently I'm only going to expect PS4 games to run on it, which is fine... I have some PAL and some NTSC PS1 and PS2 games anyway so even if those games were backwards compatible, it doesn't help me that much really, might as well just use my old PS2 and my current PS3 still works so it's not a huge deal.

Backwards comatibility on the Xbox is more of a big deal though, I really don't use my 360 any more, it's probably time for it to go back in the box, on the other hand though I'm going to get my old original Xbox out for certain as it's still going to be the easiest way to play a lot of its games.

PS5 will likely be a decent platform but I can't get too excited about it just yet, until there's a real reason to.

[Goafer]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

For the same reason people go back and watch films from 5-10+ years ago?

At the end of the day, it's a nice thing to have. It's inclusion doesn't hurt anyone and Microsoft did a good job getting it in this gen, one of the many good moves they've made in recent years.

True, but I can do that with the hardware I already have. If I'm spending £400+, I'm doing it for something new, not something I can already do/have had ample opportunity to do.

You're right though, it is nice to have. But "nice to have" doesn't hold much sway for me on something that costs three quarters of a mortgage payment.

[Mandalore]

I wonder how much money and resources Microsoft spent on backwards compatibility. Is it really worth it?

[Sheikah]

I wonder how much money and resources Microsoft spent on backwards compatibility. Is it really worth it?

I'm sure it isn't worth it, in terms of driving sales. PS4 and Switch don't do it, and they are leading right now.

 

It is a nice thing to have BC for the previous generation at launch though, to ease the transition. Not partway through the generation like how Microsoft did it; most people had already moved on by then.

 

It would be pretty neat if the next consoles had a boost mode on every past gen game you ran. Instantly being able to play say Fortnite or Apex at a higher resolution or framerate would be a useful feature to have and encourage an early upgrade.

[Ronnie]

There's a strange reluctance on here to give Microsoft credit where it's due, especially from those who are very "pro-consumer". Sure backwards compatibility would have been nice at the start of Xbox One's life (and the entirety of PS4s) but they deserve a bit of a thumbs up for providing it at all, surely. I'm planning on playing through the Mass Effect trilogy for the first time on my X. BC makes that possible, couldn't care less if it was late.

The reality is Playstation and Nintendo don't do it because they prefer to just re-release their old games. 

3 hours ago, Goafer said:

You're right though, it is nice to have. But "nice to have" doesn't hold much sway for me on something that costs three quarters of a mortgage payment.

Three quarters of a month's mortgage repayment for 5 or 6 years of use. 

I'm 100% planning on playing RDR2 again in a couple of years time and relive that whole game from the start. It's nice to know I'll (probably) be able to do it on the next Xbox. It's a convenience, a nice thing to have, add up a dozen of those conveniences and it makes a very strong console proposition. 

[killthenet]

The way I see it @Goafer is that by trading in or selling my PS4 Pro and putting the money towards buying a PS5 then I'll likely only be spending an extra £200 at most to own a new console which not only offers me brand new PS5 games but also plays all of my old games at higher frame rates and native resolutions. 

Doing so at launch means I'll be making the most of the PS4's diminishing value while still having access to all the games I haven't managed to get through.

[Goafer]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

There's a strange reluctance on here to give Microsoft credit where it's due, especially from those who are very "pro-consumer".

Three quarters of a month's mortgage repayment for 5 or 6 years of use. 

Reluctance? I've already said it's nice to have. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not going to lavish praise on someone for something I just don't care about. I have no beef with Microsoft either. Seems there's a reluctance to accept that I just don't care about backwards compatibility.

And yeah, I'll use it for a long time, but it's still a huge deal for me to spend that much money at once, regardless of how much use I'll get out of it. Maybe it's not for you and most of the target market, but to me it is and my motivation for doing so is to enjoy new experiences.

 

I also totally get @killthenets point. But again, for me, I've had the whole PS4 generation to play the games I want. As I'm getting older, there's less games that interest me, so my back catalogue doesn't really exist. Plus I'll just keep my PS4, so I can always go back and revisit games if need be. Always good to have an extra Blu-ray player as well.

[Sheikah]

The reality is Playstation and Nintendo don't do it because they prefer to just re-release their old games.

Switch couldn't haven't done BC regardless since it's a small system that can't play Blu Rays. And PS5 is going to have PS4 BC, they wouldn't do this if they only want to re-release old games.

It's more that including the necessary hardware to have functioning BC is expensive and generally before has not been worth the effort, in the cases where it wasn't there. An example is with the PS3, where they had some PS2 compatibility in the original fat model but later dropped it. The PS3 had strange architecture which is most likely why the PS4 didn't support BC. From what I've heard though, there's similarity between PS4/PS5 which is probably why it's not too much effort to have it this time.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'm all for backwards compatibility. Purely for convenience. It would be awesome if you could jump from something like Horizon: Zero Dawn to something earlier like one of the older MGS games, all on the same system. Having to switch out hardware and rummage through cupboards for discs doesn't appeal to me. 

But, I don't want to have to go through the issue of rebuying or repurchasing my old games over and over again. I don't want to have to buy a whole load of PS3 games on the PS5, and then find that I have to do it all again when the next Playstation comes around, anyway. I'm expecting there to be some sort of magic with the account system, where you can purchase an old game once and then you're sorted for future systems. How that works on a hardware level, I don't quite know.

I'm keen to move away from discs and go to digital only. I half expect this to make things like backwards compatibility easier, in some way. Maybe. I'm not technical enough to know it offhand. 

[Dcubed]

TLOU 2 got delayed till May 29th (and apparently Ghosts of Tsushima also got delayed internally)

 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/jason-schreier-kotaku-the-last-of-us-part-ii-delayed-to-spring-may-29th-2020.148939/

 

I honestly don’t see why they should bother releasing them on PS4 at this point.  Why not just port them over to PS5 and make them launch titles? Hell, they could still have them as cross-gen releases! It makes no sense to release TLOU on PS4 just 6 months before the PS5 launch date (and GOT might not even land on PS4 before PS5 even launches now!).

 

The less said about Dreams as well, the better.

 

Edit: Looks like Ubisoft are getting in on the delay action...

 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ubisoft-delays-watch-dogs-legion-rainbow-six-quarantine-and-gods-monsters-to-the-next-fiscal-year.148968/

 

If these don’t all become PS5 launch titles now? I’ll eat a PS4 controller.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

It's not that different with what happened to the original game. It was due out in the Spring, got delayed to the Summer and then the PS4 was launched in the November. 

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

I honestly don’t see why they should bother releasing them on PS4 at this point.  Why not just port them over to PS5 and make them launch titles? Hell, they could still have them as cross-gen releases!

It's so that they can release it on PS4, get tons of people playing it, then release a next gen version 6-12 months into the PS5 life.