Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

[markderoos]

7 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Nope, brush up on your DK lore, because they're two different gorillas.

The arcade DK is now known as Cranky Kong. This was established in Donkey Kong Country. Why do you think the game opens up with Cranky on a girder playing the arcade Donkey Kong title theme?

The DK in all games afterwards (Which includes Smash) is the Grandson of the arcade DK.

I’m not sure I agree. I think Cranky Kong was Donkey Kong but became Cranky Kong when the new Donkey Kong stood up and took over his mantle, or tie in this case.

So Cranky was the first DK, much like Link has many incarnations. You could say the same about Mario. And wasn’t that Jump Man in the arcade by the way?
 

 

[Glen-i]

4 minutes ago, markderoos said:

I’m not sure I agree. I think Cranky Kong was Donkey Kong but became Cranky Kong when the new Donkey Kong stood up and took over his mantle, or tie in this case.

So Cranky was the first DK, much like Link has many incarnations. You could say the same about Mario. And wasn’t that Jump Man in the arcade by the way?

It's established that there are many different Links and Zeldas in their series. Link in BotW is not the same person as Link in The Wind Waker. If they were the same person, Toon Link would have to be in NES, and that's just super wrong.

Mario, on the other hand, is the same person throughout all of his games, with the sole exception of the Paper Mario games, which take place in an alternate universe inside a book. (Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam explicitly states this)

If Cranky Kong ever got into Smash, then he would go straight into arcade, but DK in Smash is his grandson, and his first debut was in Donkey Kong Country.

Jump Man is Mario, a name change does not change the actual person. Just like Cranky Kong himself, being Cranky Kong doesn't mean he wasn't ever Donkey Kong back then.

[markderoos]

4 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Jump Man is Mario, a name change does not change the actual person. Just like Cranky Kong himself, being Cranky Kong doesn't mean he wasn't ever Donkey Kong back then.

You see @Glen-i you had me up untill this last part.

What you’re telling us is Mario was Jumpman during his Arcade debut and only name changed after this Arcade outing into Mario. In this case you don’t classify them as two different people. Rightly so. Jumpman is one of Mario’s nicknames.

I think it’s more or less the same with DK/Cranky. While Donkey Kong was Donkey Kong’s name right from the start during the Arcade era untill his grandson (probably born as an heir to the family throne and thus carrying the same name) debuted in his own game on SNES. OG DK became known as Cranky Kong during these days just to keep stuff from getting too complicated. His name is and has always been DK, Cranky is just his nickname. 

I do think it’s far more probable that this DK is the SNES DK though, but that’s because in trailers he teams up with Diddy and against K.Rool. But on the other hand Botw Link is in this game, while we have OOT Sheik and Ganondorf and Link between Worlds Zelda. So it isn’t perfect proof.

[Glen-i]

22 minutes ago, markderoos said:

I think it’s more or less the same with DK/Cranky. While Donkey Kong was Donkey Kong’s name right from the start during the Arcade era untill his grandson (probably born as an heir to the family throne and thus carrying the same name) debuted in his own game on SNES. OG DK became known as Cranky Kong during these days just to keep stuff from getting too complicated. His name is and has always been DK, Cranky is just his nickname. 

I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at. Aren't you just reaffirming that Cranky Kong is a different gorilla to modern day DK? Which would mean that DK debuted in a SNES game?

The origins tier list is meant to sort each particular character by the console of their debut, which is why the Zelda characters are sorted as such, as well as DK. Arcade DK is a different DK to DKC DK, much like how Link is not the same person as Toon Link, who isn't the same person as Young Link.

[markderoos]

My point is: how can you proof that Smash DK is SNES DK and not Arcade DK?

My second point is I love a debate about something horribly trivial like this :’)

Edited December 13, 2020 by markderoos

[Hero-of-Time]

1 minute ago, markderoos said:

My point is: how can you proof that Smash DK is SNES DK and not Arcade DK?

The red tie is a dead giveaway.  

[Glen-i]

2 minutes ago, markderoos said:

My point is: how can you proof that Smash DK is SNES DK and not Arcade DK?

My second point is I love a debate about something horribly trivial like this :’)

Oh me too! Pointless debates are the best.

As well as the red tie @Hero-of-Time mentioned, the instruction booklet for DKC literally says that Cranky Kong was "the original Donkey Kong who battled Mario in several of his own games" He's also described as DK's grandad.

He's missing the curly hair modern DK has as well.

[markderoos]

Look at the Mario in that picture. Does he represent how Mario looks in Smash?

Now, why wouldn’t DK’s granddad have looked very much the same as the DK in Smash? Including that tie (it’s a family heirloom @Hero-of-Time, that’s why ;))

So, still no 100% proof. Highly likely, yes, but solid proof? No

[Glen-i]

21 minutes ago, markderoos said:

So, still no 100% proof. Highly likely, yes, but solid proof? No

OK fine.

First paragraph states it clear as day. Even refers to Mario.

BTW, that means DK Jr has to be DK's dad.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Glen-i

[Nicktendo]

[Glen-i]

2 minutes ago, Nicktendo said:

If you're not gonna take this very important matter seriously, can you even call yourself enthusiast?

Donkey Kong's origins are very important!

[Dcubed]

I’m more surprised that people aren’t attempting to call you out of Roy being GameCube and Luigi being G&W.  The former is a really petty technicality (the best kind of technicality!) and the latter is super obscure knowledge (the best kind of knowledge!)

That being said, Hero could just as easily count under 3DS; both the PS4 and 3DS versions did release on the same day in Japan after all...

[Glen-i]

40 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

I’m more surprised that people aren’t attempting to call you out of Roy being GameCube and Luigi being G&W.  The former is a really petty technicality (the best kind of technicality!) and the latter is super obscure knowledge (the best kind of knowledge!)

That being said, Hero could just as easily count under 3DS; both the PS4 and 3DS versions did release on the same day in Japan after all...

Actually, it was @Jonnas who insisted on Roy in Gamecube. I wanted him on GBA because I didn't think Smash should count in any of these tier lists. Someone else chimed in, backed Roy in GameCube, and majority ruled.

As for Hero, I remember having the exact same issue with Dr. Mario. I broke that stalemate by using the first non-Japan date determine where he goes. So I did the exact same thing with Hero. And seeing as the 3DS version never left Japan...

Anyway, off-topic. (Not to Smash, mind)

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Glen-i

[markderoos]

7 hours ago, Glen-i said:

OK fine.

First paragraph states it clear as day. Even refers to Mario.

BTW, that means DK Jr has to be DK's dad.

I’ll repeat: who says the DK in Smash isn’t Cranky in his younger (arcade) days when he still looked almost exactly like his grandson, including the tie?

But fine, if you’re going to judge a book by its covers than at least follow that same rule with the rest; This Smash’s version of Zelda = ALBW Zelda (3DS), Ganondorf and Sheik = OOT (N64), Link = BOTW (NS).

Maybe get that Hyrule Historia book, and check the timelines to see if they’re the same incarnation of Zelda, Link, Ganondorf from a earlier game on a different platform.

7 hours ago, Nicktendo said:

That how kids in school react who didn’t do their homework. Just masquerading their own failure to add to a very important subject by trying to act they’re the cool kid.

Knowledge (or at least discussing politely on a knowledgeable level) is power.

My wife loves me when I show her how much I know about videogames.

That last part isn’t true.

[Glen-i]

14 minutes ago, markderoos said:

I’ll repeat: who says the DK in Smash isn’t Cranky in his younger (arcade) days when he still looked almost exactly like his grandson, including the tie?

Because Cranky actually does show up in Smash.

14 minutes ago, markderoos said:

But fine, if you’re going to judge a book by its covers than at least follow that same rule with the rest; This Smash’s version of Zelda = ALBW Zelda (3DS), Ganondorf and Sheik = OOT (N64), Link = BOTW (NS).

Maybe get that Hyrule Historia book, and check the timelines to see if they’re the same incarnation of Zelda, Link, Ganondorf from a earlier game on a different platform.

But that's precisely where I put them? (Except Link, BotW was a WiiU game that changed to a Switch port mid-development. The WiiU version still came out. In those situations, I go for the console that the game was originally intended for)

[markderoos]

13 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Because Cranky actually does show up in Smash.

But that's precisely where I put them? (Except Link, BotW was a WiiU game that changed to a Switch port mid-development. The WiiU version still came out. In those situations, I go for the console that the game was originally intended for)

Wow, I stand humbly corrected in both cases and take a bow to you sir.

Never saw the Cranky cameo! 😱

I’ll have a look at the tier lists (later today or this week) to see if can have another great discussion. I always learn something funny from these!

[BowserBasher]

 

 

[Ashley]

So when someone steps down as Donkey Kong are they then starved to death because that's quite a before and after:

 

 

[Glen-i]

4 hours ago, BowserBasher said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

So when someone steps down as Donkey Kong are they then starved to death because that's quite a before and after:

 

 

Well yeah, pretty much, present day Donkey Kong doesn't share his banana hoard. The Kremlings were just trying to redistribute the food supply. They did nothing wrong. They even tried to remove him from power by abducting him. But a certain dopey chimp and his girlfriend decided to rescue him. Nice job, "heroes".

[Julius]

Thursday's stream is already up? I mean, nice to see they're prepared I guess... 

Might check out the highlights, really interested to see what Sakurai has to say about Sephiroth 

[Jonnas]

6 hours ago, Julius said:

 

Might check out the highlights, really interested to see what Sakurai has to say about Sephiroth 

"What is Final Fantasy?"

[Julius]

Decided to tune in...

...and starting with a bang with Barret, Tifa, and Aerith Mii fighters, huh? 

ALSO THE MUSIC PLEEEEEASE LET THIS MEAN WE'RE GETTING MORE FINAL FANTASY MUSIC! 

[Hero-of-Time]

1 minute ago, Julius said:

Decided to tune in...

...and starting with a bang with Barret, Tifa, and Aerith Mii fighters, huh? 

ALSO THE MUSIC PLEEEEEASE LET THIS MEAN WE'RE GETTING MORE FINAL FANTASY MUSIC! 

Yeah, the Aerith theme was lovely.

[Julius]

This is sounding like an absolute win so far. We're getting Cosmo Canyon, so yeah 

Also, the electric guitar remix of Those Who Fight/Fighting sounded like it was trying to evoke The Black Mages? Which is to say it sounded awesome and I actually want to hear The Black Mages in Smash now I've had that thought  kind of sounds like the Advent Children version though, so could be that? 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Julius

[Julius]

We have JENOVA. We win. 

Please Birth of a God and maybe some cool take on Those Chosen By The Planet? Please..? 

And we've got the Main Theme! Ahhhhhhhh it's all happening! 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Julius