Cyberpunk 2077 (10th December 2020)

[Happenstance]

 

[Julius]

27 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

 

I think that something made more and more apparent by CDPR's handling of Cyberpunk 2077 is just how new, and perhaps naive, they are when it comes to being a big AAA studio which their audience have high expectations of. 

It's great saying the above now, and things like free DLC, regular updates on development once they were ready, etc, are great PR, BUT, it always seems like they're reacting to something.

Bold promises of no crunch soon followed a year later by crunch being in place. The fact that something that would induce photosensitive epileptic seizures to those with photosensitive epilepsy, got through QA and internal development. Delay after delay after delay (and the game still not being up to snuff). The fact that the base console experiences on last gen run as poorly as they do. And not to mention the potentially transphobic undercurrent to the game (yet to see this myself, so I'll save opinions about this for if and when I come across it, but it's been talked about for a while now based on the trailers and gameplay we saw before launch). 

It's all being addressed in retrospect, which to me suggests they either thought they would get away with it or, much worse in my opinion, they're incredibly naive as a studio. In the case of the potential to cause seizures, they've been naive in their testing in a way which has absolutely endangered players; it shouldn't have taken until launch for that to get flagged. The way development has panned out makes them look like they only care about the bottom line and seeing what they can get away with, and while I understand this is a business at the end of the day, I don't think it's a look which is going to age well. And considering this, let's not talk about the irony that is being a massive company putting out a AAA game in the cyberpunk genre.

Not speaking to the quality of the game itself, but only their words and actions as a studio, I think they've got a lot to learn from this. 

[Goafer]

57 minutes ago, Julius said:

And not to mention the potentially transphobic undercurrent to the game (yet to see this myself, so I'll save opinions about this for if and when I come across it, but it's been talked about for a while now based on the trailers and gameplay we saw before launch). 

I'm quite interested to see what the transphobic content is, as I've only played about 5 mins and I've already been impressed by the character creator's options for gender/sex. You can pick your voice (which also controls pronouns), body shape (masculine/feminine base) and genitals (including none). The fact that you can make any combination of those seems like a step forward to me, but I guess it depends what the other complaints are.

[Julius]

10 minutes ago, Goafer said:

I'm quite interested to see what the transphobic content is, as I've only played about 5 mins and I've already been impressed by the character creator's options for gender/sex. You can pick your voice (which also controls pronouns), body shape (masculine/feminine base) and genitals (including none). The fact that you can make any combination of those seems like a step forward to me, but I guess it depends what the other complaints are.

Yeah, I'm curious to see what the issues are too, because I had the exact same reaction to the options available from the start as you did. I noticed there weren't any choices for pronouns though, so I wonder if being referred to as he/she in the game is determined by the voice you choose? I'm not sure, but I could see that potentially not going over well. 

It's something I'll want to read up on once I've completed the game, because I get the feeling anything which isn't explicitly transphobic might go over my head, even if looking out for it, simply because of just how much is going on at all times, and also for the obvious reason that I'm a straight male and might not find something offensive at face value in the same way a trans person might. Admittedly, that might be partially down to my own ignorance of the matter, because I tend to steer clear of a lot of the commentary on it online (it's a minefield and I tend to steer clear of toxic discussions where I can). 

But, yeah, I'm definitely going to make a point of reading up on it once I've completed the game. Hopefully doing so will allow me to empathise more with the situation and have a better understanding of it. 

[Happenstance]

19 minutes ago, Goafer said:

I'm quite interested to see what the transphobic content is, as I've only played about 5 mins and I've already been impressed by the character creator's options for gender/sex. You can pick your voice (which also controls pronouns), body shape (masculine/feminine base) and genitals (including none). The fact that you can make any combination of those seems like a step forward to me, but I guess it depends what the other complaints are.

I think a lot of the complaints came from the model used in one of the in-game advertising campaigns and how it was being used to fetishize trans folk. There is also complaints that there's only one other trans character in the game and she is tied to a missable side quest. I've seen the pronoun stuff complained about as well but that's mostly on Resetera where they have gone completely overboard with the entire thing.

[Goafer]

15 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

I think a lot of the complaints came from the model used in one of the in-game advertising campaigns and how it was being used to fetishize trans folk. There is also complaints that there's only one other trans character in the game and she is tied to a missable side quest. I've seen the pronoun stuff complained about as well but that's mostly on Resetera where they have gone completely overboard with the entire thing.

Yeah, I just read up on some of it. I can't comment on the in game advert, as I've not seen it, but the pronouns being tied to voice isn't ideal, but the fact that it's not tied to body shape or genitals is a step in the right direction IMO. Like, they've at least tried. That's more than most character creators do.

Character creators are never going to have every single option for every single thing in there, but the fact that they've made some progress towards allowing unusual gender options should at least be acknowledged. I can't make a character that's left handed, or has heterochromia or a cleft palate. Does that mean they hate those people too? Or is it that they just didn't think about it? I think people need to realise the difference between *insert thing here*phobia and an oversight.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Goafer

[Goafer]

22 minutes ago, Julius said:

I noticed there weren't any choices for pronouns though, so I wonder if being referred to as he/she in the game is determined by the voice you choose?

From what I remember, it's tied to the voice and says that those will be your pronouns when you pick the voice.

[drahkon]

2 hours ago, Happenstance said:

 

That's the least they could do.

Thankfully, I'm not affected by the issues with last-gen consoles. Gonna finish the game on my PS5 once, sell it and go back sometime when the inevitable "complete collection" will be available.

Anyways, depending on how lab work goes in the next two days, I might actually have much more freetime until next year and really dive into the game. Fingers crossed

[Happenstance]

The thing that annoys me about the last gen console stuff is that they knew this was coming. They didn't send out console review codes for a reason and they knew even the PC versions weren't up to it as they wouldn't let reviewers use their own footage.

[Julius]

10 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

The thing that annoys me about the last gen console stuff is that they knew this was coming. They didn't send out console review codes for a reason and they knew even the PC versions weren't up to it as they wouldn't let reviewers use their own footage.

Absolutely agree. The fact that they put out those footage videos which only covered the One X and PS4 Pro from last gen was a giant red flag. 

And, again, like you said, they knew this. This is what I mean about them reacting to issues, rather than then getting ahead of them. It's the problem with third parties not optimising games for consoles and, in this case, aiming at mid-to-high end PCs. 

It's not the fairest comparison, because it's a first party title and would have been optimised significantly more than this, but look at Miles Morales on the PS4. It runs at mostly 30 fps and has a smaller colour gamut when compared with the Pro, or PS5, sure, but it's still playable and enjoyable. PlayStation does crazy good work with their optimisation (I played The Last of Us Part II and Ghost of Tsushima on a base PS4 earlier this year, and loading times and the game's appearances were both spectacular - don't think either crashed, though there was the occasional technical glitch), and looking at CDPR's sales for Cyberpunk, they really should have put much more effort in. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Julius

[Sheikah]

 

It's difficult to accept an apology when they've clearly deliberately withheld the last gen footage (and reviewer copies) in the run up to launch to not change the message and ruin the hype train (and cause people to cancel orders). I'd have more respect for them if they just said "we wanted your money".

[Cube]

4 hours ago, Julius said:

I think that something made more and more apparent by CDPR's handling of Cyberpunk 2077 is just how new, and perhaps naive, they are when it comes to being a big AAA studio which their audience have high expectations of. 

It's great saying the above now, and things like free DLC, regular updates on development once they were ready, etc, are great PR, BUT, it always seems like they're reacting to something.

 

I disagree. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and had this tweet typed up before the game was released.

[Julius]

29 minutes ago, Cube said:

I disagree. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and had this tweet typed up before the game was released.

By "reacting to something", I specifically meant that they were reacting to discourse/reactions from the community (that's my bad, should have been clearer). It's not until they're called out on it that they actually say something. 

But the imagery in my head of a Word document filled with "What to do in case they find out..." tweets is definitely funny to think about 

[Ronnie]

Good that they've offered refunds. I imagine most people who ask for one will have finished the game by now anyway!

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

I'm really tempted to pick this up and get completely lost in what looks like an amazing world...in about 6 months or so when the game isn't likely to go kaput on me.

One of my friends has described himself as a paying beta player at the moment (he's on Series X) and a few others aren't having the best ride so far whilst still enjoying the fundamental game itself. 

Strangely I'm really tempted to get this on Stadia, eventually 🤷‍♂️ I'm sure I'll probably end up going Xbox but at the moment I find myself and my fascination of Stadia leaning towards wanting to try it on there.

[drahkon]

11 minutes ago, Kaepora_Gaebora said:

One of my friends has described himself as a paying beta player at the moment (he's on Series X) and a few others aren't having the best ride so far whilst still enjoying the fundamental game itself. 

I must be quite lucky. 6 hours in, no major bugs A few textures loading a bit late, occasionally some issues with picking up items and one 2 minute annoyance where I could only equip one weapon. Other than that: It's running great.
And with that being said I'm pretty sure I just jinxed myself and the first crash will be coming soon

Gotta say: So far I'm having a blast. Got completely absorbed in a main mission just now. Took me about 45 minutes and I blacked out everything else outside of the game.

Haven't really dabbled with equipment, which is weird as I usually love that shit. But Night City, side gigs and the few main missions I completed got me hooked.

[Dcubed]

This is why you don’t pre-order sight unseen.

Was plainly obvious that CDPR were attempting to pull the wool over your eyes with the console versions; and quite frankly, it’s shocking that this actually passed certification with the ridiculous number of crashes it suffers on both PlayStation & Xbox.  Quite frankly, both console manufacturers are complicit in this as far as I’m concerned.

The fact that Sony are now refusing refunds is just adding insult to injury.

Absolutely horrendous state of affairs.

[Happenstance]

16 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

The fact that Sony are now refusing refunds is just adding insult to injury.

Sounds more like the automated chat thing is refusing them then when you get to a real person they're going through.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-12-13-sony-has-begun-refunding-unhappy-cyberpunk-2077-fans-playing-on-ps4

[Julius]

Think I'm going to have to shelve this for now, unfortunately. Two more crashes today (not a great way to wind down playing after work), lost quite a bit of progress, and had a couple of quests about to finish off before the police randomly turned up and killed me. I'm quite patient when it comes to these things normally, but a game like this is long enough as it is, and it just makes it so much more difficult to invest time into. It's hard to enjoy playing after a long day at work, when at the back of my mind I'm waiting for it to crash again  

Sucks, because I've been excited for this game for so long, but I'm finding it harder to like the game the more bugs I encounter, and it's made it difficult to gauge my own enjoyment of the game itself. It's definitely more Deus Ex from the little I've seen of those games, than it is GTA. It's an impressively constructed world which looks great, and the story was starting to get interesting, but it hasn't hooked me enough to the point that I'm willing to play the same missions over and over because of crashes (to be honest, very few games I'd put up with that for - I hate wasted time). 

Little aside totally separate to my experiences with crashes, but also found this game did a really poor job with its tutorials and menus, it feels like a lot of stuff is buried? Read that the guide is much more helpful in that regard, so might pick that up at some point. 

It sucks, but there are other things I have to play, so it's not that big a deal. I might just hold out until the next gen patch at this point, to be honest, whenever that ends up landing. Glad to see everything's generally been going smoothly for others playing though, and glad to see people enjoying it too 

[drahkon]

7 hours and 54 minutes later...shit just got real

The last two hours have been spectacular. Can't wait to see where the game's going with all this.

Sorry to hear about your issues with the game @Julius Would've loved to discuss it with you. Guess it'll have to wait until we both play the next gen version

[Goafer]

4 hours ago, Happenstance said:

Sounds more like the automated chat thing is refusing them then when you get to a real person they're going through.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-12-13-sony-has-begun-refunding-unhappy-cyberpunk-2077-fans-playing-on-ps4

Yup. From my own experience*, Sony are actually really good with refunds if you actually talk to them.

*I basically bought the GOTY edition of Witcher 3 as a cheap way to get all the DLC, loaded the GOTY edition up and noticed my save wouldn't transfer over from the standard version. As I had loaded the game up, I wasn't entitled to a refund. Contacted Sony and was given an instant refund. Great service IMO.

[drahkon]

Sitting in the lab, waiting for an analysis to finish...but it's looking very likely that this'll be my last day in the lab for 2020, which means: more time for me to play Cyberpunk 2077 (and the occasional Slay the Spire run)

Can't wait to dive back in later today. The last mission I played really made me hungry for more.

[Happenstance]

 

[drahkon]

20 hours ago, drahkon said:

And with that being said I'm pretty sure I just jinxed myself and the first crash will be coming soon

Thankfully, I save like a madman so no biggie.

Did a side mission where I needed to steal a van. Obviously I tried to be sneaky and it went horribly wrong a few minutes in. The shootout was quite intense with me sniping through some walls and two enemies sneaking up on me trying to take me down with their shotguns.
Managed to survive, though

This game is too much fun.

Haven't touched the main mission, yet. Wanna earn some money and street cred to buy the double jump improvement.

[Ronnie]

19 hours ago, Julius said:

Think I'm going to have to shelve this for now, unfortunately

It's unfortunate that the game obviously wasn't released ready but I think you're definitely making the right decision. Look at it like you've waited years to play this game, another few months or so doesn't change much and the experience will be so much better.