Rummy Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Also played Ocarina last year and it's still the worst 3D zelda to me Right, before you get lambasted for this, I want to agree.Ocarina was revolutionary, yes. But it is my least favourite 3D Zelda. That said, it's still a great game! Worst 3D Zelda is still pretty damn good. I'd ask you guys the same as I did Happenstance - did you play it around original release, or later on? I'm always interested to see what draws the line for people in terms of something so universally renowned and acclaimed such as OoT/Zelda.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 I'd ask you guys the same as I did Happenstance - did you play it around original release, or later on? I'm always interested to see what draws the line for people in terms of something so universally renowned and acclaimed such as OoT/Zelda. I imagine Dazzybee did. Strangely enough, the guys on RFN hit on this topic this week. John was saying how he didn't play Chrono Trigger until it was on the DS. He enjoyed the game but he didn't think it was amazing, like many people who played in back in the day do.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 To be honest, they're in a no-win situation because of virtually every decision they've made during the Wii U generation. Not talking to western developers when they developed the hardware, not creating new teams and employing enough developers to release their big hitters in a timely fashion, picking the wrong games to launch the console with, not marketing enough (and towards the wrong demographic), then continually greenlighting the completely wrong software throughout the console's lifespan, all combined leading to shite hardware sales and third parties bailing out one after the other. All of this has lead us up to present day when they have to pull the plug on the Wii U prematurely, pissing off those who actually did buy the machine, but having no choice since they don't want the same fate for the NX. I can only hope that Retro Studios got their wish and that their new project, which they've spent an eternity developing, is in fact the next Zelda. So that the NX doesen't won't have to wait to the tail-end of its lifespan for its Zelda title. Yeah - I want this game [Zelda U] to be a PURE NX game if atleast for a better release schedule for future Zeldas ie get an NX sequel in something like two years after the release of the console. Though fans will cry foul play for Nintendo going against their Wii U promise, we gamers are pretty fickle and will buy a game if it's good and a console if it's got good games. I can forgive Nintendo if they fix up and throw away the idea that a gimmick is needed to sell their games. I BET you - just like Starfox - it's Nintendo trying to implement some sort of dual screen play to validate the gamepad that's causing the delay, as well as the HD transitioning. What makes me sad about sloppy remakes (and it's the state of the Wii U that is driving this) is the fact it's highly unlikely they would ever remake it again.
Glen-i Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) I'd ask you guys the same as I did Happenstance - did you play it around original release, or later on? I'm always interested to see what draws the line for people in terms of something so universally renowned and acclaimed such as OoT/Zelda. Original release. N64 was the first console I owned. The game has aged a bit, Hyrule Field is just one big empty chore to walk around in, and the dungeons are pretty good, but not exceptional. I'll repeat what I said before, I still think it's great! Just not as good as the other 3D Zeldas. I imagine Dazzybee did. Ouch, that's harsh! What makes you think I never played the original? Well, to use your previous anedote, I first played Chrono Trigger on the Wii VC, and I think it's one of the greatest RPG's ever. I don't like the insinuation that what I think of a game comes down to when I first experienced it. That doesn't matter one bit to me. I think Pokemon Red/Blue are nowhere near as good as some of the more recent Pokemon games, and I played that the year it came out. Why should it matter when I played it? Edited February 15, 2016 by Glen-i
Mr-Paul Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 @Glen\-i I imagine his comment isn't malicious in any way, I think he just knows how old Dazzybee is but doesn't know how old you are. For me: Majora's Mask > Ocarina of Time > Twilight Princess > Skyward Sword > Wind Waker They're all brilliant though.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Ouch, that's harsh! What makes you think I never played the original? I said it because I know Dazzybee is around my age and like me has followed Nintendo since he was a kid. I have no idea how old you are or what your gaming history is. EDIT: @Glen\-i I imagine his comment isn't malicious in any way, I think he just knows how old Dazzybee is but doesn't know how old you are. We have a winner.
Glen-i Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 @Glen\-i I imagine his comment isn't malicious in any way, I think he just knows how old Dazzybee is but doesn't know how old you are. Well, if he just clicked my username, he could have easily found out... I still maintain that when I first played a game has nothing to do with what I think of it.
nekunando Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Well, if he just clicked my username, he could have easily found out... I still maintain that when I first played a game has nothing to do with what I think of it. I find it difficult to judge something like this as how can we know for sure how our experiences over the years have affected our interpretations of things..? I've played plenty of SNES, N64 and PS1 games in recent years for the first time and don't feel like my judgement is hindered my when I played them. However, I grew up in that era and experienced what games from that time were like so I'm already familiar with what to expect, to an extent. Others may find it more difficult to adjust to, or even appreciate, older mechanics. I can empathise with that as I struggle to embrace NES games
Retro_Link Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Why should it matter when I played it?It absolutely matters! I don't know how anyone can think otherwise. Ocarina of Time was the first time anyone had experienced such a game, it was mind blowing. Play it now and you've experienced countless others that have done the vast majority of things far better, that consciously or not you'll judge it against. Same reason kids today would probably get bored playing Asteroids in 5 mins. It's the very reason sequels in any medium games/book/film/second albums etc... have so much to live up to. Edited February 15, 2016 by Retro_Link
Hero-of-Time Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 I find it difficult to judge something like this as how can we know for sure how our experiences over the years have affected our interpretations of things..? I've played plenty of SNES, N64 and PS1 games in recent years for the first time and don't feel like my judgement is hindered my when I played them. However, I grew up in that era and experienced what games from that time were like so I'm already familiar with what to expect, to an extent. Others may find it more difficult to adjust to, or even appreciate, older mechanics. I can empathise with that as I struggle to embrace NES games Personally, I think nostalgia can play a HUGE part in how we enjoy older games. The Chrono Trigger example I used is a great one. Much like John, I didn't play it until the DS release ( obvious as it didn't get released over here and I don't do scummy ROMs/emulation ) and found it to be a great game but nothing massively special. Earthbound is another one which many have fond memories of, but if you compare it to modern standards, then certain things just don't hold up. I played it for the first time on the Wii U and I have still yet to finish it due to how messy it can be. I love it when the guys on RFN talk about this game. They always take the nostalgia goggles off and tell it how it is. While I have zero issues with the NES/SNES era, there are many games in the N64/Saturn/PSOne era that look awful, play awful, and don't up hold well BUT I still love some of them ( sorry JFG but I can't learn to love you ) because of the memories that come with playing through them.
Glen-i Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) It absolutely matters! I don't know how anyone can think otherwise. Ocarina of Time was the first time anyone had experienced such a game, it was mind blowing. Play it now and you've experienced countless others that have done the vast majority of things far better, that consciously or not you'll judge it against. Same reason kids today would probably get bored playing Asteroids in 5 mins. It's the very reason sequels in any medium games/book/film/second albums etc... have so much to live up to. You know what? I get where you're coming from. I guess when you play a game affecting your view is a little unavoidable. (Geez, that sentence sounds terrible) I did mention on the previous page that Ocarina was revolutionary. But I think that judging a game by today's standards is a better way to go than judging games based on how much you liked it when it came out. Because that can lead to nostalgia blindness, and you can't deny that this is one of the many reasons games like Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy 7, Pokemon Red/Blue and others are held up on such a high pedestal. (I said one of the many reasons, it's not the only one) I always aim to take my initial feelings from years ago out of the equation when I go back to play an old game. Because it's interesting to see whether I think it holds up or not. Whether it is truly "Timeless" Edited February 15, 2016 by Glen-i
Retro_Link Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) It depends on how you evaluate games as you say, and I guess there are predominantly two ways... Pokémon Red/Blue was a video game defining moment, it was revolutionary, a global experience. Quite honestly, along with the TV show, for a couple of years you lived Pokémon. Therefore for me, Pokémon Red will forever be in my Top 10 games of all time. Is Pokémon Black/White a better game (ok, some might argue the original Pokémon and more simplistic nature of the originals still make them better games), due to visuals, story, the amount of content, modes, world etc... undoubtedly yes and so one would recommend it as the better Pokémon experience in todays world, and thus rank it higher. With Zelda, each console generation has further defined that franchise. Arguably I would say Twilight Princess is the only example where I feel the power of the new console hasn't resulted in an increased experience, but that's just me. The first time I played Majora's Mask and Link - when chasing after Skull Kid in the opening section - did a front flip to cross the tree trunks, it already felt like a drastic step up over Ocarina of Time. Come the end of the game, was it my new favourite Zelda... not even close. Also 'Timeless' can mean so many things. Did the game create for you a timeless experience, so that when ever you return to the game you are always reminded of that joy. Is it a game that's visual style is forever timeless and therefore doesn't age. Does it hold up to todays standards in terms of the story, or gameplay... Again, it's all a matter of opinion. Edited February 15, 2016 by Retro_Link
Sheikah Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 You know what? I get where you're coming from. I guess when you play a game affecting your view is a little unavoidable. (Geez, that sentence sounds terrible)I did mention on the previous page that Ocarina was revolutionary. But I think that judging a game by today's standards is a better way to go than judging games based on how much you liked it when it came out. Because that can lead to nostalgia blindness, and you can't deny that this is one of the many reasons games like Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy 7, Pokemon Red/Blue and others are held up on such a high pedestal. (I said one of the many reasons, it's not the only one) I always aim to take my initial feelings from years ago out of the equation when I go back to play an old game. Because it's interesting to see whether I think it holds up or not. Whether it is truly "Timeless" I think judging whether a game is timeless or not is a different thing to gauging how great a game it is (or was). If a game released tomorrow blows me away like nothing that came before it, I would say it's one of the best games ever, regardless of whether or not each element of the game gets assimilated and cloned with improvements by masses of games over the next 10 years. In my case, I believe I can look back at a game and remember those that gave me such extreme levels of enjoyment, regardless of whether the same company released 10 sequels afterwards that just took more of the same and refined it. I will always consider Pokemon Red and Blue to be amazing games worthy of every drop of praise they received, regardless of how many games came after; they were the games that blew you away because you'd never had it before. No sequel can ever achieve that feeling again - unless you're new to the series and play one of the later games first. I think nostalgia bias is an interesting one - I would use this to describe people who believe specific aspects of old games are better than what we have today (e.g. random battles with loading screens that take you out of the action). That said, I see the opposite of nostalgia bias to be a worse thing - marking down games that were ridiculously entertaining at the time because they have aged by modern day standards. For me, I don't really care - I'd consider a game amazing so long as it entertains me greatly. If it still seems that great in 10 years, that's just a bonus.
Kounan Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Sorry to interrupt you guys, but how can you "argue" so much about someone's opinion when it comes to games !? My favourite football game is Dino Dini's soccer, favourite Zelda game is A Link to the Past (and I actually had to check the name of the game, as for me it is Zelda on Super Nintendo ), while I love OoT and I am now playing Wind Waker and my experience is not a quarter of the experience I had with OoT (it has a lot of reasons). My favourite 2D Mario is Super Mario World, my favourite 3D Mario is Mario 64, while I didn't feel anything for Mario Galaxy games. My favourite FPS is S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl and I liked the first Crysis quite a lot, while COD and Medal of Honor gameI've never really liked (not that I hate them, I will even have fun playing them, but I don't feel that they are anything special - I haven't try the last one, of course) There is nothing somebody can say that will change my mind and for me it's like saying my favourite color is "this" one (you like it for some reason and that's it).
Hero-of-Time Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Sorry to interrupt you guys, but how can you "argue" so much about someone's opinion when it comes to games !? My favourite football game is Dino Dini's soccer, favourite Zelda game is A Link to the Past (and I actually had to check the name of the game, as for me it is Zelda on Super Nintendo ), while I love OoT and I am now playing Wind Waker and my experience is not a quarter of the experience I had with OoT (it has a lot of reasons). My favourite 2D Mario is Super Mario World, my favourite 3D Mario is Mario 64, while I didn't feel anything for Mario Galaxy games. My favourite FPS is S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl and I liked the first Crysis quite a lot, while COD and Medal of Honor gameI've never really liked (not that I hate them, I will even have fun playing them, but I don't feel that they are anything special - I haven't try the last one, of course) There is nothing somebody can say that will change my mind and for me it's like saying my favourite color is "this" one (you like it for some reason and that's it). Who in the hell is arguing? People are simply expressing why certain games mean a lot to them and why nostalgia can be a factor. Nobody here is trying to change anyones opinion on how they feel about a game.
Kounan Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Who in the hell is arguing? People are simply expressing why certain games mean a lot to them and why nostalgia can be a factor. Nobody here is trying to change anyones opinion on how they feel about a game. That's why I have put it in "". I forgot the propper word for it, wanted to say discuss, don't get upset .
Retro_Link Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 So you wanted to say 'how can you discuss so much'?... That's forums man :p
Kounan Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 So you wanted to say 'how can you discuss so much'?... That's forums man :p I know, I know , I just think that it's really to personal when it comes toolder games, as we all were younger, with different things that impress us, without political views which can make us feel different to some games and stuff like that. I would even go so far to say that it's not different console generations that make the difference, but it's more our age (I like older FIFA more, than the new one, but not because I think they were better, but because I used to like playing FIFA, PES, now I just don't care).
Fierce_LiNk Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 For me: Majora's Mask > Ocarina of Time > Twilight Princess > Skyward Sword > Wind Waker They're all brilliant though. That's my order, too. Except, I'd chuck Skyward Sword out of the list and pretend that it never existed. So, technically, Wind Waker would still be last. I really wouldn't mind Nintendo doing what they did with Ocarina and Majora again. Release one game with one story and then re-use the engine,mechanics, graphical style but come up with a completely different storyline and flip the idea on its head. It also would allow them to get out two Zeldas in quick succession. 2 years between Ocarina and Majora is awesome.
Hogge Posted February 15, 2016 Author Posted February 15, 2016 Yeah - I want this game [Zelda U] to be a PURE NX game if atleast for a better release schedule for future Zeldas ie get an NX sequel in something like two years after the release of the console. Though fans will cry foul play for Nintendo going against their Wii U promise, we gamers are pretty fickle and will buy a game if it's good and a console if it's got good games. I can forgive Nintendo if they fix up and throw away the idea that a gimmick is needed to sell their games. I BET you - just like Starfox - it's Nintendo trying to implement some sort of dual screen play to validate the gamepad that's causing the delay, as well as the HD transitioning. What makes me sad about sloppy remakes (and it's the state of the Wii U that is driving this) is the fact it's highly unlikely they would ever remake it again. Nintendo need to release Zelda for the U, otherwise the NX will go the way of the Dreamcast. But you are right. I have for the longest time tried to convince people here that the best way to go for Nintendo is to EVOLVE their games rather than to tack on gimmicks.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 I really wouldn't mind Nintendo doing what they did with Ocarina and Majora again. Release one game with one story and then re-use the engine,mechanics, graphical style but come up with a completely different storyline and flip the idea on its head. It also would allow them to get out two Zeldas in quick succession. 2 years between Ocarina and Majora is awesome. That's the perfect sequence IMO and that was classic, highly productive, fast-thinking Nintendo. No need to reinvent the wheel every game and seek a new time consuming art style.
dazzybee Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 I don't even know how to process this....I....just...nope. I know it's sacrilege, don't know what it is... Be interesting to see how Twilight Princess holds up, in my memory I loved it, Skyward Sword too! I'd ask you guys the same as I did Happenstance - did you play it around original release, or later on? I'm always interested to see what draws the line for people in terms of something so universally renowned and acclaimed such as OoT/Zelda. I played it when it first came out, later on and 3DS version. It's never been a game I loved to play, but was blown away by a lot of what it was doing. [MENTION=19435]Majora's Mask > Ocarina of Time > Twilight Princess > Skyward Sword > Wind Waker Wind Waker last?! Did you play the remake on the wii u? I guess how I feel about this is like how most people think when I say that about Ocarina... Crazy
Mr-Paul Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 I know it's sacrilege, don't know what it is... Be interesting to see how Twilight Princess holds up, in my memory I loved it, Skyward Sword too! I played it when it first came out, later on and 3DS version. It's never been a game I loved to play, but was blown away by a lot of what it was doing. Wind Waker last?! Did you play the remake on the wii u? I guess how I feel about this is like how most people think when I say that about Ocarina... Crazy Yep, Wind Waker last, and I have played the Wii U version. It's a great game, a brilliant game even, but it just has too much holding it back to compare to the others. Sailing takes too long (although that's much better on the Wii U version), dungeons cut out, Triforce hunt... Ocarina, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword win for me as epic, complete adventures, and Majora's Mask is just so unique it's always held a special place in my heart. In fact, my top four have little to separate them in how much I love them, but Wind Waker is a clear step below for me.
dazzybee Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Nostalgia is a crazy powerful thing, there are NES games i think are incredible - Battletoads, Turtles, Super Mario bros, RC Pro Am, Gun Smoke, Bermuda Triangle, Mega Man(s), Bayou Billy, Double Dragon, Batman, Kung Fu, Festers Quest... but how many are actually good? Especially now? Some are plain awful I'm sure (I was tempted to download Bayou Billy until I heard people saying how atrocious was (still tempted)). I actually think N64 lives better in the memory than in practice. But I've said something similar before and it didn't go down very well Yep, Wind Waker last, and I have played the Wii U version. It's a great game, a brilliant game even, but it just has too much holding it back to compare to the others. Sailing takes too long (although that's much better on the Wii U version), dungeons cut out, Triforce hunt... Ocarina, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword win for me as epic, complete adventures, and Majora's Mask is just so unique it's always held a special place in my heart. In fact, my top four have little to separate them in how much I love them, but Wind Waker is a clear step below for me. Fair enough, so basically you pretty much love all Zeldas then
Mr-Paul Posted February 15, 2016 Posted February 15, 2016 Fair enough, so basically you pretty much love all Zeldas then It's definitely my favourite game series. Which is why it is so frustrating that we're having to wait so long for the next home console game! Like I said the other week, while I do appreciate the chance to play these classics again, I do find it ridiculous that we've had FOUR Zelda remasters this generation (plus the brilliant Link Between Worlds and Hyrule Warriors. Haven't bought Triforce Heroes yet, although I enjoyed it at the demo event I played it at something about it doesn't quite sit right with me). I was delighted with the 3DS ones but the Wii U ones really do feel more like filler to me! Couldn't they have used the Skyward Sword engine/assets to make a sequel in a shorter time like they did with Majora's Mask? That would've eased the wait a lot more than these remasters! I just wish they would hurry up with Zelda Wii U! There's nothing better than a epic, new Zelda adventure!
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