dazzybee Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Not sure I get the point you're coming from here(like genuinely didn't understand) - is the issue Sony presenting it somewhat as 'theirs' but it being a kickstarter? Or presenting it as a kickstarter but it actually being somewhat 'theirs' or what?? I dunno if a word or two was lost in the post - but I certainly am!! haha, no that's fair enough. MY issue is a huge company like Sony taking credit for this game, and will get the credit in th long run, and then using a service aimed at independent artists/innovators etc to fund the game. A multi billion pound company. It's disgusting. And my additional point was that it damages services like kickstarter. When people can fund huge games like Sony backed Shenmue 3, if it becomes a trend, why would they back independent games they've never heard of? Same thing is happening with films and music. I find it really wrong on so many levels.
Will Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 - As far as money goes, he expects the game's investment will primarily come from individual backers, so he wants them all to be happy with the finished product. Doesn't sound like Sony and others are giving them all THAT much. For the sake of the quality of the game that point really worries me. The game really is going to be quite bare-bones if it's reliant on money being mainly from the kickstarter. Some of the stretch goals confuse me too, $100k per language for localization is a crazy amount, it"s totally out of line with what they have for the game development budget. Yeah, kickstarter can be great and is great for independent artists and such. For sony to show it off as a big game at their conference and help with the development, but kickstarter is borderline disgusting in my eyes. I'd think the same if any multi million (billion) pound company/individual did the same thing. It's abusing the service (which I also think distrust the platform in general for the people who will generally need it). I think it depends where the money is really coming from though. If Sony have just given them a small kick-off and then it's being done independently then I think its OK. If Sony are a major backer then it really sits uneasily with me too. Leading on from my point above this is not a $2m project. If it was I have no doubt it would have been made years ago through a regular publishing route and not needed to go near kickstarter. I'm really happy we're getting at least something, but my confidence in something high quality is pretty low at this point.
Goafer Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I think the problem is that Sony could have just funded the game themselves. Instead, they've invested very little and could be seen as taking all the glory for it. Personally, I just think they've just exhibited a game that will be exclusive to their console (PC isn't a console after all). Surely that's the point of E3? They've listened to the gamers and their desire for Shenmue 3, realised that Yu Suzuki is planning to make it and given him a platform to announce it in exchange for some brownie points from the fans. I fail to see who is getting a raw deal from this. The fans get the game they've wanted for 14 years, Yu Suzuki gets a grand announcement for a project he's very passionate about and Sony gets a free boost in popularity.
Will Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Which I think is fine if it's made clear how everything is fitting together. For me, somewhere the numbers don't add up, so I want to understand them more. I fail to see who is getting a raw deal from this. The fans get the game they've wanted for 14 years, Yu Suzuki gets a grand announcement for a project he's very passionate about and Sony gets a free boost in popularity. I really hope this is the case, but if Sony haven't put any money in, and it's the kickstarter money only, the fans won't be getting the game they've waited 14 years for.
Goafer Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I really hope this is the case' date=' but if Sony haven't put any money in, and it's the kickstarter money only, the fans won't be getting the game they've waited 14 years for.[/quote'] That's the thing, I don't think fans want a game at this point. They just want an end to the story. As mentioned in the interview posted above, many would be happy with just a novel or manga. Let's face it, the first 2 Shenmue games were barely games. Walk somewhere, cutscene, walk somewhere else, cutscene, walk somewhere else, get the bus, walk, QTE etc. I reckon you could count the actual fights on one hand. I don't think anyone is expecting this to be the pinnacle of gameplay/graphics etc. Edit: Oh shit @MoogleViper... Edited June 18, 2015 by Goafer Automerged Doublepost
Will Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I think it`s a little more nuanced than that though. In the absence of a game most people just want to find out how the hell the story ends, in whatever way it takes. But if a game is coming it will set certain expectations of at least some level of quality. The originals were flawed, sure, but they still had a huge scope and tried to do new and interesting things we hadn`t seen before. I`m certainly not expecting a masterpiece, but at the moment I`m worried it`s going to be a disaster. I`d rather not know how the story finishes than have it done in a crappy way.
Helmsly Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Adam Boyes was on Giantbomb a few hours ago and talked a bit about Sony's role with Shenmue 3:
bryanee Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 http://shenmue.link/us-en/topics/#item25 Interview with some one on the dev team.
Ashley Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Once a Kickstarter is funded though and if it then fails afterwards, you dont get your money back. Thats why people need to know that its not just a preorder service. Mhm but in this particular case as I see it if you're feeling unsure just pledge the bare minimum to get the game and it's not that much of a loss. Not ideal of course, but take a gamble now and then. Regarding Sony seemingly not funding much (based on the interview on the previous page) perhaps they are just championing it then. Giving it a platform to be seen. Yes there are a lot of Shenmue fans out there that would have noticed anyway, but E3 is for more than just the gaming press/fans. Hell once it's finished Kickstarter will probably start promoting it too. "Kickstarter - where long dead dreams are brought back to life!"
Happenstance Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Mhm but in this particular case as I see it if you're feeling unsure just pledge the bare minimum to get the game and it's not that much of a loss. Not ideal of course, but take a gamble now and then You realise I was just talking about Kickstarter in general right and that was just a general warning so people understand? I backed Shenmue 3 as soon as I could at about 3am in the morning as it was being announced.
Ashley Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 You realise I was just talking about Kickstarter in general right and that was just a general warning so people understand? I backed Shenmue 3 as soon as I could at about 3am in the morning as it was being announced. Yeah I know, was just justifying it in this case. Obviously it's trickier for more expensive things.
Happenstance Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Yeah I know, was just justifying it in this case. Obviously it's trickier for more expensive things. Ok cool, think it was just the way you worded it made it seem like I should be taking a gamble on it.
Ashley Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Ok cool, think it was just the way you worded it made it seem like I should be taking a gamble on it. It's been a long-ass week. You should be grateful these are words and not emojis.
Happenstance Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Here we go then, back to Shenmue 1! Edit: Jesus Christ this Dreamcast heats up the room quickly! Edited June 19, 2015 by Happenstance
Londragon Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 I fail to see who is getting a raw deal from this. Future gamers. Sony have seen a huge success in this and will emulate it to death in future E3s, and I'm sure Microsoft will copy this strategy. 'Let's make a new AAA title, but hold on we can save a few million bucks by putting it through that Kickstarter scam that Shenmue 3 and Sony pulled last year.' I do see this as a scam, and one, due its huge success, that will be replicated with great fan applause every year. Sony must be laughing themselves to sleep over this. Had you all going and you fell for it.
Happenstance Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Yeahhhh.... You are just making a whole lot of assumptions there and getting borderline insulting at the end. They've been trying to get a game made for 14 years for a series that never made a profit, it's very easy to see why companies didn't want to take a chance on it. I've seen nothing during this to make me think it's going to become a weird new trend.
Londragon Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Yes, I admit I made a lot of assumptions, but it's just the way I feel about it happening during E3, a conference for computer game companies to show off games that will be arriving on their systems, not for ones that are not funded and not guaranteed to arrive, but also to gauge interest and generate additional funding. They could have easily announced this before or after E3, through proper Kickstarter channels, and it would have tasted better. I really hope that this does not become a future trend during computer game conferences, but Sony have shown that this can be a great success for both companies involved and their audience lapped it up, so why wouldn't they, and others, replicate it in the future? I'm totally sceptical at the best of times. So, when a massive corporate entity does this I see the worst. As for being insulting, yes I was toward Sony, but I didn't mean any offense to gamers of any ilk, especially anyone here.
Goafer Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Had you all going and you fell for it. I just hate when a company gives me the game I've been wanting for the last 14 years. It's easy to assume the worst and say that Sony are essentially funding the game, but none of us know how much or what they're doing to fund it. They could just be giving time and staff or they could be funding it with millions. We just dont know yet. Even if they are funding the majority, you can hardly fault them for wanting to see if the demand is there. Plus if they are funding it, it will come back to bite them. How do you think they are going to make money on it? I'll wager that everyone who wants it have already paid for their copy through Kickstarter. Sony won't make any money from the normal sales, because there won't be any.
Happenstance Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Yes, I admit I made a lot of assumptions, but it's just the way I feel about it happening during E3, a conference for computer game companies to show off games that will be arriving on their systems, not for ones that are not funded and not guaranteed to arrive, but also to gauge interest and generate additional funding. They could have easily announced this before or after E3, through proper Kickstarter channels, and it would have tasted better. I really hope that this does not become a future trend during computer game conferences, but Sony have shown that this can be a great success for both companies involved and their audience lapped it up, so why wouldn't they, and others, replicate it in the future? I'm totally sceptical at the best of times. So, when a massive corporate entity does this I see the worst. As for being insulting, yes I was toward Sony, but I didn't mean any offense to gamers of any ilk, especially anyone here. It was the bit where you said "Sony must be laughing themselves to sleep over this. Had you all going and you fell for it." that I found insulting. Especially when you are basing it on nothing. This is the first time its happened so at the moment, until something else happens to back up your fears then its all just baseless to me.
Londragon Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 I just hate when a company gives me the game I've been wanting for the last 14 years. Even if they are funding the majority, you can hardly fault them for wanting to see if the demand is there. Plus if they are funding it, it will come back to bite them. How do you think they are going to make money on it? I'll wager that everyone who wants it have already paid for their copy through Kickstarter. Sony won't make any money from the normal sales, because there won't be any. I just don't like to see it happen at E3 for example. Isn't Shennmue a big seller? (I genuinely don't know). It was the bit where you said "Sony must be laughing themselves to sleep over this. Had you all going and you fell for it." that I found insulting. Especially when you are basing it on nothing. This is the first time its happened so at the moment, until something else happens to back up your fears then its all just baseless to me. Time will tell, but precedents have now been set.
Happenstance Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I just don't like to see it happen at E3 for example. Isn't Shennmue a big seller? (I genuinely don't know). No its not, I specifically mentioned just a few posts ago that its a series that never made a profit, thats why publishers would never fund it, which is why they had to go to Kickstarter. If this was a Kickstarter for a well known, profitable franchise then we would be having an entirely different conversation. It happened at E3 because yes part of this is a deal with Sony and that deal includes marketing. Edited June 20, 2015 by Happenstance
Sheikah Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Future gamers. Sony have seen a huge success in this and will emulate it to death in future E3s, and I'm sure Microsoft will copy this strategy. 'Let's make a new AAA title, but hold on we can save a few million bucks by putting it through that Kickstarter scam that Shenmue 3 and Sony pulled last year.' I do see this as a scam, and one, due its huge success, that will be replicated with great fan applause every year. Sony must be laughing themselves to sleep over this. Had you all going and you fell for it. I've noticed a great deal of ignorance in terms of people comprehending this deal. Like, as if people have no freaking clue what it means. It's really weird! This is just about the best precedent we could hope for. Gamers are getting the game, that otherwise would likely never have been made if not for Kickstarter, for just £18.26. £18.26! Normally games cost £40-50. SONY ARE TEH SCAMMING US! They're advertising a Kickstarter for a game they obviously do not own the rights to, and we can get it for so cheap! How dare they!11 Edited June 20, 2015 by Sheikah
Londragon Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 I've noticed a great deal of ignorance in terms of people comprehending this deal. Like, as if people have no freaking clue what it means. It's really weird! This is just about the best precedent we could hope for. Gamers are getting the game, that otherwise would likely never have been made if not for Kickstarter, for just £18.26. £18.26! Normally games cost £40-50. SONY ARE TEH SCAMMING US! They're advertising a Kickstarter for a game they obviously do not own the rights to, and we can get it for so cheap! How dare they!11 My disgust at this tactic is not at the price of a game that would normally not be made. It's about using Kickstarter during an E3 conference to fund a game that may not appear on their platform if not successful. I thought the whole point of E3 was to show the public (and investors, etc.) what IS going to be released on your console within the next year (or in Sony's case the next 3 years), not what may release on your console if you back the crowd funding scheme of our choosing. It seems to dilute the whole meaning of E3 for me. If Sony announced the game and fully funded it, no problem. Have some conviction to back up projects on your console (especially if you've given them conference time). Maybe I'm being old school and fuddy duddy about it, but I just don't like it. With all the applause it received, it sets a precedent for future E3 shows to be dominated by Kickstarter projects and not funded projects as now. I've taken that to an extreme conclusion, but just one showing was too bile inducing for me.
Sheikah Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Yeah you're definitely being old school and fuddy duddy . As I said, it gives games that might not have otherwise been made a chance to succeed, and people are complaining about it, which just seems crazy to me. Saying Sony should fund the whole thing ignores the probable high cost of not just development but exclusivity. Maybe it just wasn't worth the risk? Why should we complain if they are just chipping in rather than funding the whole thing? If their chipping in helped the game ever be realised; good! People should probably be glad Sony are propping it up because it gives it more chance it won't collapse, because Sony won't want that aftermath damaging their image. Godus is an example of how wrong things can go, then nobody would ever trust you on Kickstarter again.
Ashley Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 Future gamers. Sony have seen a huge success in this and will emulate it to death in future E3s, and I'm sure Microsoft will copy this strategy. 'Let's make a new AAA title, but hold on we can save a few million bucks by putting it through that Kickstarter scam that Shenmue 3 and Sony pulled last year.' I do see this as a scam, and one, due its huge success, that will be replicated with great fan applause every year. Sony must be laughing themselves to sleep over this. Had you all going and you fell for it. Again people said this would be the way of Hollywood if Veronica Mars was successful and two years later and no other studio has tried it. Individuals within Hollywood have (with varied success), but no studio (to the best of my knowledge anyway). Let's not jump to brimstone just yet. Let's see how this plays out. I thought the whole point of E3 was to show the public (and investors, etc.) what IS going to be released on your console within the next year (or in Sony's case the next 3 years) Is it stated anywhere what E3 is actually for other than showing stuff about the video game industry? I can see how it being annual would make people assume it's stuff that's coming out in the next year, but AAA titles can take years. Why not show it off when you can? What if the game ends up coming out in August 2017. Should they have not shown it until June 2017 just because it would come out between E3s? Shenmue 3 has met it's funding goal. There is as much chance of it not appearing on the PS4 as many other games shown at E3 that never materialised.
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