Nintendo Switch - Happy Switchmas Everyone!

[Kounan]

I think Ubisoft are fine, as are Activision, to a certain extent. As for Pro Evo, that would require Konami to actually continue to make console games.

 

Didn't they say that PES is staying?

 

Anyway, Nintendo could pay for the port.

[Hero-of-Time]

Didn't they say that PES is staying?

 

Anyway, Nintendo could pay for the port.

 

I think it will depend on how much it will cost to produce another one. As far as I can tell, the latest game didn't do that well in Japan or abroad, at least in comparison to previous years. FIFA has locked the market down, what with Pro Clubs and Ultimate Team being big a big thing for the majority of players.

[Kounan]

Hmm, that's not good, even if I didn't like the new PES.

 

Still, Nintendo should be clever and support the game, and make it exclusive at the end. They don't need to make a profit on it, even if I think that they will as a lot of Nintendo owners will buy it as they have no choice really.

 

But it should be kind of compensation for missing on FIFA. Of course, the could try to improve the game.

 

And also, they should definetly try to buy some of the Konami IP's.

[Dcubed]

Thing is, you look at stuff like Zack & Wiki or A Boy and his Blob, both on the Wii ( massive install base ), both exclusive 3rd party games and both very catered towards the Nintendo crowd ( at least visually ). Both these games sold pretty poorly, yet on paper they should have worked. It's no wonder why Nintendo throw Mario in every game or why 3rd parties don't even bother with Nintendo platforms.

 

Lets be honest though, those two games are super niche and would never have sold better on any other platform. The few "core" 3rd party games that were actually high profile and not neutered in any stupid way (like RE4 Wii, the Guitar Hero series, Monster Hunter 3 and Epic Mickey) all ended up actually selling very well. Hell look at the sales of Guitar Hero on Wii VS Rock Band on Wii for a perfect example of how a series that was given proper treatment on Wii utterly annihilated its shoddly made competitor; despite Rock Band selling better on other platforms in general.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Wii is this industry's biggest ever missed opportunity. If it wasn't sabotaged by pretty much the entire industry, the traditional gaming sector would've not only have grown so much more than it did last generation, it would also have been in far better a state than it is in now. The massive increase in budgets could've been avoided, sales could've been higher across the board and mid tier games would still have had a place at retail.

 

I've always hated this line of thinking that they spouted. Whether they like it or not they are competing against Sony and Microsoft. Gaming is a hobby that you spend doing in your spare time. Anything that takes away from playing on a Nintendo console, whether it be reading a book, watching a movie or playing on a PS4/Xbox, should be seen as a threat to their market.

 

Note that they say direct competitor, it doesn't mean that they have no impact at all. To Nintendo, MS and Sony are seen as indirect competitors. They might not be targeting the same market as them directly, but they're still pulling from the same pool of developers out there and are certainly indirectly competing with them for people's time.

 

Do you think that you can have a successful console without strong Western developer support? I don't think that's possible without some sort of gimmick to hook people in.

 

The majority of big sellers are now made in the west. Japan has really struggled to get to grips with HD development and most of their big guns are either leaving the market for mobile or just barely hanging on.

 

Honestly, I have no idea. That being said though, it may not necessarily matter as much as you might think at first, if they succeed at bringing in that expanded audience back from mobile. Mobile and the devaluation of software in general is a far bigger problem for them right now than PS4/Xbone are really.

 

Their biggest challenge is finding a way to get people to spend money on honest product, in an age where games are worth nothing and are funded almost entirely by sleazy and underhanded psychological manipulation of a select, vulnerable few.

 

Their Indie push still leaves a lot to be desired. Yeah, they have a few cheeky exclusives here and there but a lot of the indie titles that get ported have seen releases on other platforms ages ago. The RFN guys were on about this during E3, saying that on the show floor Nintendo's indie push was pretty zero when compared to Microsoft and Sony.

 

Supposedly there's a lot more happening behind the scenes than you see in public, the general consensus that I keep seeing from many developers is that they actually do go out of their way to help developers, get kit into their hands and such and are generally pretty strong in that area... But they're just not public about it...

 

... which always leaves me thinking why!? If they're giving them this push, why aren't they shouting from the rooftops about it? It's like they're doing the right things and then shooting themselves in the foot by not getting the word out!

 

As far as their support goes, supposedly they're at least as good as Sony in that area (and in some cases even better according to some), but with one exception. They supposedly do not actually outright give out money hats like Sony do, that's the one big thing that they seem to lack in comparison.

 

And while it's not their style to do so (and it could eventually land them in a bad situation if they end up being bullied into having to pay for everything when the going gets tough), I do think that they need to start playing the game a bit more. If not actual outright payment for exclusives, then other incentives like Amiibo (see Shovel Knight) or use of their own IP, or other co-marketing deals.

 

I so hope that the EA story comes out eventually. I would be really interested to hear how things really went down in that deal.

 

Same. I bet it would make for a real juicy read! The analogs to the EA/Dreamcast and Sony/SNES CD add-on debacles are shockingly apt!

 

And also, they should definitely try to buy some of the Konami IP's.

 

This! Nintendo already employ many of the original Konami developers who created these IPs in the first place! It's crazy to think of all the IP that is rotting away at that festering corpse!

 

That being said, supposedly Nintendo has actually licensed one of Konami's IP already (Momotaro Dentetsu) and is having a new game in the series being developed as we speak, so fingers crossed for the likes of Goemon and Bomberman to follow!

Edited October 27, 2015 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

Lets be honest though, those two games are super niche and would never have sold better on any other platform. The few "core" 3rd party games that were actually high profile and not neutered in any stupid way (like RE4 Wii, the Guitar Hero series, Monster Hunter 3 and Epic Mickey) all ended up actually selling very well. Hell look at the sales of Guitar Hero on Wii VS Rock Band on Wii for a perfect example of how a series that was given proper treatment on Wii utterly annihilated its shoddly made competitor; despite Rock Band selling better on other platforms in general.

 

Not to mention Just Dance. I see the Wii version of the latest one actually made it into the UK charts!

 

Honestly, I have no idea. That being said though, it may not necessarily matter as much as you might think at first, if they succeed at bringing in that expanded audience back from mobile. Mobile and the devaluation of software in general is a far bigger problem for them right now than PS4/Xbone are really.

 

Their biggest challenge is finding a way to get people to spend money on honest product, in an age where games are worth nothing and are funded almost entirely by sleazy and underhanded psychological manipulation of a select, vulnerable few.

 

That's a VERY big if. That market has become accustomed to getting games for pennies or even free. Getting them to pay top dollar for a reatil game is going to be a massive challenge.

 

Supposedly there's a lot more happening behind the scenes than you see in public, the general consensus that I keep seeing from many developers is that they actually do go out of their way to help developers, get kit into their hands and such and are generally pretty strong in that area... But they're just not public about it...

 

... which always leaves me thinking why!? If they're giving them this push, why aren't they shouting from the rooftops about it? It's like they're doing the right things and then shooting themselves in the foot by not getting the word out!

 

As far as their support goes, supposedly they're at least as good as Sony in that area (and in some cases even better according to some), but with one exception. They supposedly do not actually outright give out money hats like Sony do, that's the one big thing that they seem to lack in comparison.

 

Their actions in getting indie support on their platforms still leaves a lot to be desired. From what i've read, indie developers love the ease of developing for the PS4. They can make a a game for the PC, PS4 and Vita without very little effort, with Sony really giving them any help they need in the porting process. You just have to look at the amount of indie games that both the Vita and the PS4 have. This isn't just a simple case of money hatting ( which I agree, does go on ) but more of the fact that they seem to really care and push the indie market.

 

 

And while it's not their style to do so (and it could eventually land them in a bad situation if they end up being bullied into having to pay for everything when the going gets tough), I do think that they need to start playing the game a bit more. If not actual outright payment for exclusives, then other incentives like Amiibo (see Shovel Knight) or use of their own IP, or other co-marketing deals.

 

I totally agree with this. It's something they need to be more aggressive with. They need to start looking at what smaller titles would be good fits for their consoles and then try to lock them in ASAP. Axiom Verge was a prime example of this. If you aren't going to make a Metroid game yourselves then secure one made by an indie developer.

[dazzybee]

Just started listening to the NVC podcast but the RFN guys were also on about the NX, as well. They also made the same point that Brian did about Nintendo fans being partly to blame for the 3rd party situation. Just buying 1st party games and nothing else doesn't really help things.

 

The NX is going to be in a very sticky situation when it launches. Will people jump ship mid generation to another console? I doubt it. People have made their choices for the generation and have built up their friends lists and gaming buddies already. Again, it seems like Nintendo will be left with only it's core fanbase, something that is shrinking with every generation. If they can't/don't find another market for their products ( whether its attract the gamers or casuals ) it's going to continue to get worse for them.

 

I wonder what's happening with their QoL stuff? Many have speculated that it has taken a backseat to the mobile partnership. Guess time will tell.

 

Yeah i don't see a way to be hugely successful; but maybe 'hugely' successful isn't that important. And most if the 3DS and Wii U owners jump over than that could still be a pretty big market. And if they can supply a range of consoles with scaling, digital only and such; presuming it doesn't confuse things tenfold; then maybe that could draw more and more people in.

 

If Nintendo launched NX with Special Editions of Smash and Mario Maker, Zelda obviously and maybe either one or a few of Animal Crossing/Monster Hunter/Pokemon which are the perfect showcases of this hybrid style; throw in one huge exclusive like Mario Galaxy 3 - in my head I can't see how it wouldn't be hugely successful. But would it?!

[Hero-of-Time]

Yeah i don't see a way to be hugely successful; but maybe 'hugely' successful isn't that important. And most if the 3DS and Wii U owners jump over than that could still be a pretty big market. And if they can supply a range of consoles with scaling, digital only and such; presuming it doesn't confuse things tenfold; then maybe that could draw more and more people in.

 

If Nintendo launched NX with Special Editions of Smash and Mario Maker, Zelda obviously and maybe either one or a few of Animal Crossing/Monster Hunter/Pokemon which are the perfect showcases of this hybrid style; throw in one huge exclusive like Mario Galaxy 3 - in my head I can't see how it wouldn't be hugely successful. But would it?!

 

The Wii U has proven that quality software isn't enough to sell a console. Having all of those games would be amazing but would it pull other markets towards the console?

 

I think the most important things are the marketing and the price point. Both these mean nothing to the Nintendo faithful because they know all about the product and will but it no matter the price ( within reason of course ). The mobile market will need to be informed that the NX is the next big thing that they must have but it must be affordable. These two things are what helped the Wii become the juggernaut it was and, surprise surprise, neither of these things were on point when it came to the Wii U.

[Andykara2003]

I'm a little worried about the timing of the NX's release. I think being more than a year or so away from the other consoles might be a mistake. They've missed the boat with this generation and the PS4/X1 will be happy with their consoles for another few years.

 

I hope this doesn't play out.

[Grazza]

I still say 3rd-part support begins and ends with these factors:

 

* multi-format

* released on same day as other platforms

* at least as good as the other versions

 

This has simply not happened since the GameCube, as Nintendo keep getting their timing and/or their technology wrong. For the record, I bought both Zack & Wiki and A Boy & His Blob, but they were indeed "super niche". Nintendo will not be part of the 3rd-party scene until awaiting the next multi-platform game on Nintendo seems as natural as doing so on Xbox and PlayStation.

[Mr_Master_X2]

I still say 3rd-part support begins and ends with these factors:

 

* multi-format

* released on same day as other platforms

* at least as good as the other versions

 

This has simply not happened since the GameCube, as Nintendo keep getting their timing and/or their technology wrong. For the record, I bought both Zack & Wiki and A Boy & His Blob, but they were indeed "super niche". Nintendo will not be part of the 3rd-party scene until awaiting the next multi-platform game on Nintendo seems as natural as doing so on Xbox and PlayStation.

 

I think the two consoles, same OS is meant to appease third parties. They get to easily port to two consoles and not just one. Western devs all know how massively selling Nintendo's handhelds are (even if they shun them).

[Kav]

I think the two consoles, same OS is meant to appease third parties. They get to easily port to two consoles and not just one. Western devs all know how massively selling Nintendo's handhelds are (even if they shun them).

 

This isn't good enough though, you need an ease of porting across competitor consoles too. Which I just can't see happening.

[Hero-of-Time]

This isn't good enough though, you need an ease of porting across competitor consoles too. Which I just can't see happening.

 

Yup. This is a massive point and one that has hampered Nintendo for generations.

 

The cost of developing games isn't cheap and asking developers to spend even more time and resources on porting to a system which has a different setup than the rest is just asking for trouble.

[Clownferret]

The Wii U has proven that quality software isn't enough to sell a console.

 

The Wii U has proved that regardless of how good your own software is without FIFA, COD etc you can't sell a console. If they can't lock down the big 3rd party games then the NX will fail.

[Hero-of-Time]

The Wii U has proved that regardless of how good your own software is without FIFA, COD etc you can't sell a console. If they can't lock down the big 3rd party games then the NX will fail.

 

Indeed.

 

Whether people like these games or not, these types of games create a more diverse library on the console and fill in the gaps in genres that Nintendo never touch.

[Kounan]

The Wii U has proved that regardless of how good your own software is without FIFA, COD etc you can't sell a console. If they can't lock down the big 3rd party games then the NX will fail.

 

That's why they need at least Konami to sell them, or work with them on PES.

[nekunando]

PES is better than FIFA again so I'll happily take that on NX while EA take a hike

 

If Nintendo could somehow strike a deal for PES exclusivity, I'm sure it would at least lure a few people over!

[Hogge]

The Wii U has proven that quality software isn't enough to sell a console. Having all of those games would be amazing but would it pull other markets towards the console?

I have to disagree. While the Wii U has plenty of software which is of high quality, I'd argue that the quality is still sub-par when compared to what's available on other systems, while quantity and espescially variety has been disastrous.

 

Honestly I don't understand why for example Mario Kart 8 still has the stupid layout of 8 cups that you race over and over on different difficulty settings. And if multiplayer is the bread and butter of the game, where are the arenas? Why can't I communicate with the people I'm playing with in a respectable manner? And why can I only vote on a few preset levels, rather than the one I actually want to race?

 

Mario 3D World feels like a stop-gap sollution, rather than the main 3D Mario experience. The seemingly grid-based level designs feel like they're inspiration for a 3D Mario Maker game that never was released.

 

Splatoon had the same problems in multiplayer as MK8, which for a purely online game is quite disastrous.

 

And for obvious reasons, 2D games will always be perceived as lower quality than 3D games. Plus that 2D pretty much seen as its own genre nowadays.

 

 

Nintendo need to drop the idea that people will pick up a secondary console each generation. And subsequently, Nintendo need to at every step ask themselves whether their lineup has as many quality games in as many genres as the other systems. They need to develop games that people will talk about during lunch at school or at work.

Espescially if third parties jump ship, Nintendo will have to think long and hard for every game they greenlight.

They need to basically have a checklist containing the essentials for what a console in general is expected to have and a Nintendo console in particular. And they need to understand that if no third party is checking any of those boxes, they'll need to do it themselves.

[dazzybee]

But aren;t you talking about two different things? Hero acknowledged that the infrastructure is what destroys them, but the games themselves are exceptional quality. But you disputed it by talking about the online infrastructure.

 

I think the games have been exceptional quality - best version of Pikmn, mario kart, smash; a great Mario game, mario maker is amazing, Platoon is probably my favourite game of the past 5 years. But the support and online stuff is a huge let down. Personally, it's nintendo's abandoning of the console this year and next which has bothered me the most, I've been delighted with it other than that.

[Sheikah]

But aren;t you talking about two different things? Hero acknowledged that the infrastructure is what destroys them, but the games themselves are exceptional quality. But you disputed it by talking about the online infrastructure.

 

I think the games have been exceptional quality - best version of Pikmn, mario kart, smash; a great Mario game, mario maker is amazing, Platoon is probably my favourite game of the past 5 years. But the support and online stuff is a huge let down. Personally, it's nintendo's abandoning of the console this year and next which has bothered me the most, I've been delighted with it other than that.

 

No, when referring to quality he also listed a number of gameplay issues he had not related to online infrastructure as well as multiplayer aspects.

 

I personally wouldn't say most of the Wii U games are of high quality. Polished from a technical/no bugs perspective, sure. But that's not the only criteria I go by when determining quality.

[Ashley]

The Wii U has proved that regardless of how good your own software is without FIFA, COD etc you can't sell a console. If they can't lock down the big 3rd party games then the NX will fail.

 

Didn't the Dreamcast already prove this? RIP.

 

 

I think the games have been exceptional quality - best version of Pikmn, mario kart, smash; a great Mario game, mario maker is amazing, Platoon is probably my favourite game of the past 5 years. But the support and online stuff is a huge let down. Personally, it's nintendo's abandoning of the console this year and next which has bothered me the most, I've been delighted with it other than that.

 

There's no way in hell Mario Kart 8 is the best MK game. The awful battle mode prevents this by itself

[somme]

Bar the battle mode I'd definitely argue MK8 is the best in the series. Definitely the best since MK64 for me, but then that had the best battle mode. I haven't really played battle mode since MK64 so have gotten used to not caring.

[Hero-of-Time]

I have to disagree.

 

While I was talking about the level of polish and high reviews the games receive, the points you made are valid, especially when talking about the online component of their games.

[Pestneb]

Bar the battle mode I'd definitely argue MK8 is the best in the series. Definitely the best since MK64 for me, but then that had the best battle mode. I haven't really played battle mode since MK64 so have gotten used to not caring.

 

I agree, although for me the snes battle mode was the best. Who knows, maybe it is the first mk battle mode you played will always set the standard and anything else will fall short?

 

Aside from the battle mode (And I won't lie, I wish it had the leaf power up - I loved leaping over incoming red shells with it!) it's definitely my favourite MK8.

I won't say it is perfect though, hopefully MK NX will build on 8 and surpass it as the best MK!

[dazzybee]

I agree, although for me the snes battle mode was the best. Who knows, maybe it is the first mk battle mode you played will always set the standard and anything else will fall short?

 

Aside from the battle mode (And I won't lie, I wish it had the leaf power up - I loved leaping over incoming red shells with it!) it's definitely my favourite MK8.

I won't say it is perfect though, hopefully MK NX will build on 8 and surpass it as the best MK!

 

Yeah same, Super Mario kart is my height of battle mode too!! N64 was good too; DS one as well.

 

Still can;t believe how much they gimped it for this, and never patched it!!

[Pestneb]

Yeah same, Super Mario kart is my height of battle mode too!! N64 was good too; DS one as well.

 

Still can;t believe how much they gimped it for this, and never patched it!!

 

I'm over the disappointment tbh, I don't even consider MK8 to have a battle mode any more, which is a shame because it certainly was one of my favourite modes, even in the weaker iterations.

 

The real shame is that I think the new battle mode had good potential, if it was a supporting mode rather than the only one