Falcon_BlizZACK Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 It's really interesting to see how WiIU and Switch systems are different from Nintendo's typical successes. Typically they use ageing tech in new ways meaning it is cheap but surprising to customers. Handheld power isn't particularly surprising when we've seen the Shield/Vita; but the race to the bottom in regards to price in mobile gaming and the AAA mainstream charts of consoles is changing gaming. Nintendo should have come out fighting with a lower price point but why risk it if you've millions of switch views on YouTube and only launch with 2million worldwide. Financially it's better to come out high and then reduce. I'm sure we'all see a price reduction when this fails to shift big numbers. E3 should be fascinating too... E3 is going to be juicy, and 3 months after the launch is a brilliant time-frame. Very certain they'll be gearing up to hit hard for Christmas.
Pestneb Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) At the price it is now, I can see the Switch ended up as bad as if not worse than the Wii U. You NEED the system to get a decent install base as any foundation - and with a price so many seem to be finding prohibitive, everything else will subsequently fall down around it. Zelda in March I think is capable of shifting 2 Million. Mario kart in April probably again, able to shift 2 Million. Splatoon is coming probably in July? again, able to shift a couple of million. Mario again, able to move 2 million units. Nintendo are being cautious to avoid inventory sitting in warehouses too long. spacing out a number of big hitters throughout the year seems sensible enough, it means they won't have a HUGE peak initially, they can look at consumer response and anticipate demand etc. It makes the switch a bit less volatile. Wii U in 2012 had mario bros U 2013 had 3d world, pikmin 3 2014 had DK tropical freeze, Smash bros, mario kart 2015 had Splatoon. mario maker. 2016 Paper mario. 2017 Zelda BotW. Already the switch in it's first year out does the Wii U's first two years in terms of the bigger hitters. ok Zelda is also on the Wii U, but I actually think Nintendo are banking on many Wii U owners opting for the Wii U version to avoid switch shortages. is 20% of wii U owners upgrade at launch, Nintendo are out of stock. I would love to know how many upgrades Mario kart and Zelda secure... imagine not too many, I'd guess at a 50:50 split, or 35:65 with mainly non Wii U owners jumping in. Splatoon 2 I think is the first attempt at pulling in upgraders, then Mario marking the hard launch. I do think 10 Million this year is doable, and if they pull that off they are on the right track. They do need to fill out the release schedule though, E3 needs to be good for them. **edit** having said that, for me the GC first month was pretty good. Burnout, Starwars rogue squadron 2, super monkey ball, wave race, luigi's mansion, Super smash bros melee. Next month Pikmin. Super mario sunshine, Eternal darkness and Starfox adventures filling out 2002... put's things in a less positive light for me 2003 super monkey ball 2, metroid prime, zelda: wind waker, F-zero, Starwars rogue squadron 3, Mario kart, 1080 2004 Animal crossing, Pikmin 2, Donkey Konga, Paper Mario, Metroid prime 2 2005 Jungle beat, star fox assault, Konga 2, Super mario strikers, Battalion wars 2006 Twilight Princess That's not an exhaustive list at all... and obviously subjective, but for me no Nintendo console since has come close. There are a bunch of other games I can think of that I could add to that list too. If Nintendo can get another 6 solid big titles exclusive to switch... it would be a very good move. Not that the GC did spectacularly well though Edited January 14, 2017 by Pestneb
Rummy Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 How are people "sure" they'd reduce the price?! They didn't do so with the WiiU! This is the thing - I don't think they will. I don't think they can really afford to. I think they'll slowly wait out the market and trickle feed for a higher margin over a smaller number of units. As you say - Wii U never really got much of an official cut; it seemed to be good deals about due to retailers dropping it instead. I've still not seen a WiiU premium for £190 or less new.
liger05 Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 How are people "sure" they'd reduce the price?! They didn't do so with the WiiU! Exactly. They still have margins to hit so one shouldn't assume this will just reduce in price within 6 months. Production costs come down after time but that only effects retail pricing if the original inventory is selling.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Nobody is gonna be playing 1-2 switch. Anyone who thinks this is gonna be popular is living in a fantasy land Then colour me living in a fantasy world, then. Ultimately it depends on many factors, one being if retailers bundle the game with the system.
liger05 Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Zelda in March I think is capable of shifting 2 Million. Mario kart in April probably again, able to shift 2 Million. Splatoon is coming probably in July? again, able to shift a couple of million. Mario again, able to move 2 million units. Nintendo are being cautious to avoid inventory sitting in warehouses too long. spacing out a number of big hitters throughout the year seems sensible enough, it means they won't have a HUGE peak initially, they can look at consumer response and anticipate demand etc. It makes the switch a bit less volatile. Wii U in 2012 had mario bros U 2013 had 3d world, pikmin 3 2014 had DK tropical freeze, Smash bros, mario kart 2015 had Splatoon. mario maker. 2016 Paper mario. 2017 Zelda BotW. Already the switch in it's first year out does the Wii U's first two years in terms of the bigger hitters. ok Zelda is also on the Wii U, but I actually think Nintendo are banking on many Wii U owners opting for the Wii U version to avoid switch shortages. is 20% of wii U owners upgrade at launch, Nintendo are out of stock. I would love to know how many upgrades Mario kart and Zelda secure... imagine not too many, I'd guess at a 50:50 split, or 35:65 with mainly non Wii U owners jumping in. Splatoon 2 I think is the first attempt at pulling in upgraders, then Mario marking the hard launch. I do think 10 Million this year is doable, and if they pull that off they are on the right track. They do need to fill out the release schedule though, E3 needs to be good for them. They should get through 2 mil easy but I still think they have taken a backwards step from the initial video in January. That caused some great hype and excitement but even reading Nintendo forums let alone general gaming people are deflated. The presentation didn't help at all. They really could of done better. It wasn't the worst ever and isn't beyond being saved but it should of been so much better.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 How are people "sure" they'd reduce the price?! They didn't do so with the WiiU! Well they did it with the 3DS.
Ashley Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Thinking about the Miiverse cancellation, I suspect it is primarily due to cost. There's obviously the infrastructure costs, but also the costs of moderation. Even with the additional revenue from charging for online, maybe they calculated it wouldn't be financially viable to continue offering it?
liger05 Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Well they did it with the 3DS. I think down the line we maybe could see a portable only switch.
Ashley Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 They did make some comment after the teaser video saying they aren't bowing out of the handheld market or something like that.
Clownferret Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Are there any more events/directs announced prior to launch? There seems to still be a lot of stuff we don't know and I would assume we will get full system specs, a proper look at the OS etc.
Mr-Paul Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 For those who are going to buy the Switch, Zelda: Breath of the Wild is available for £49.95 from The Game Collection.
Hero-of-Time Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 @Ashley and @Kaepora_Gaebora thanks for the impressions and video. I've just got around to reading/watching them. Good work! Are there any more events/directs announced prior to launch?There seems to still be a lot of stuff we don't know and I would assume we will get full system specs, a proper look at the OS etc. Well there's a Fire Emblem Direct soon. Also, NoA said they would talk about the VC before launch, so I'd imagine a Direct will be on the cards for that. Given the lack of info/confusion in regards to their online setup, they will probably discuss that as well.
liger05 Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 This is a decent hands on impression. http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1333946 Glad to hear it sounds like Nintendo really made me think nice piece of kit this time round.
Strange Cookie Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) I don't know where I stand with the presentation and the line-up at this point. The system itself looks fine, but that launch line-up... could have been better. BotW us great, and Bomberman holds my interest, but the other games: meh. Skylanders, Just Dance and 1, 2, Switch aren't quite games to entice potential buyers, and at this point the only other game is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, almost 2 months later. That's pretty barren, even if the likes of Ubisoft release their ports in the meantime of Capcom release USF2. Nice games, to be sure, but it won't convince those who need convincing. I shouldn't complain when a new Zelda, Mario, Splatoon 2 and a deluxe-version of the best MK arrive in one year... but I hope there is more third party support on the way. A definitive edition of a game that was originally slated as a WiiU launchgame, a 'costum'-version of Fifa and a remix of a 8-year-old SF2-game doesn't a stellar line-up make. And Skyrim. But Skyrim is awesome. Shame we have to wait until fall, and the last of 'special edition' concernes me. That said, it WAS a Japanese-oriented presentation, and Square-Enix and Atlus, amongst others, are bretty big names. Time will tell, and I'm not giving up my pre-order just yet. Hell, I've had it since July, back in the NX-days. And Arms is looking mighty interesting! Bummed that the trigers are not analogue... Doesn't bode well for GC-virtual console, where analogue triggers are a necessity. EDIT: probably sounded a bit negative there. I'm still very much exited about Switch. And BotW, Skyrim, MK8, Dragon Quest Heroes, Mario and others on the go/toilet? Yes, please! I do hope Splatoon 2 has a decent single player, so I can have something to ink on the train. Edited January 14, 2017 by Strange Cookie
Ashley Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 This is a decent hands on impression. http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1333946 Glad to hear it sounds like Nintendo really made me think nice piece of kit this time round. I've said to a few people this morning that it's a wonderful bit of tech (both in terms of what's under the hood and general look and feel), it's just a shame its being undermined by the associated costs (accessories and software). The HD rumble sounds dope. It's great but I'm struggling to think of uses for it. Anyone got any ideas?
Aneres11 Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 You say this and, whilst I can in one way agree, I find that I have to point out one great thing that bothered me about Wii U. I don't feel Nintendo did a good enough job of supporting their own touted asymmetrical experiences and gamepad approach. I, to date, don't think I've seen anything I felt make a greater use of the gamepad and asymmetrical gaming than Nintendoland - a bloody launch title for it. Sure they made some good and Nintendo-esque games for the system - but I don't feel any really utilised the gamepad appraoch that I'd essentially been sold the system on and bought into. Given they seem to be going for a bit of a gimmicky thing with the JoyCons but I don't believe the Switch is going to do as well as they expect, I don't have much faith in them this time either. I agree. They never really utilised the feature in the same way that they didn't utilise the 3D in the 3ds outside of the launch titles which used it pretty well. I think that's part of the reason people were clamouring for a console that was just console and normal controller akin to GameCube. One can dream. As it stands though I do like the design of the actual console. Hopefully they do more with it this time themselves so third parties will take note and try and do something unique too.
Kounan Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 I agree. They never really utilised the feature in the same way that they didn't utilise the 3D in the 3ds outside of the launch titles which used it pretty well. I think that's part of the reason people were clamouring for a console that was just console and normal controller akin to GameCube. One can dream. As it stands though I do like the design of the actual console. Hopefully they do more with it this time themselves so third parties will take note and try and do something unique too. That's why I think that this time it will be better as it is much easier for them to utilise the futures they have now in the controllers especially as they have a lot experience with that.
Ike Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Kinda want the Neon Red Joy-Con but it seems you can only get the right controller as part of the hardware bundle and the left as part of the Joy-Con bundle, but not separately or a bundle with both?
Grazza Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) I didn't watch the show, and didn't feel well enough yesterday to post my thoughts (or even really read up on everything), but I hope I've managed to learn enough details to have an opinion. There has been a lot of criticism of the Switch - none of it I really disagree with - and yet I still like what I see. Let's get the negative out of the way first. 4am was a ridiculous time for UK viewers. I never intended to watch the show live, even if I was feeling great when it aired. I can't help but wonder if the strange time meant European fans who got up specially for it felt more tired and emotional yesterday morning (no offence intended) than they would have done if it had been in the afternoon or evening? The £279.99 price tag is high, yes, but not unaffordable like the Neo Geo. My big concern about this is that it's another 3DS, with a huge price cut and Ambassador Programme due (but let's not get ahead of ourselves - there's a real risk of it being less popular than the 3DS, plus the initial planned line-up is less impressive). It's likely Nintendo does not care about Europe any more, or even prioritise USA, and that might not actually be a bad thing. The West has become extremely politically correct. We have seen huge backlashes from some groups when certain things are not in their games (eg. Tomodachi Life). At the other extreme, in recent years Treehouse has censored almost everything Nintendo of Japan has put out. (The region free status of Switch is great, by the way, although I'll believe it when I see it.) On top of that, I'm not convinced anything can become really huge in the West apart from the Wii-type casual gaming and the stereotypical "mainstream" gaming embodied by the likes of FIFA and Call of Duty (crude, but you get the idea). I strongly don't want Nintendo to return to the former (let's pretend I didn't see 1-2 Switch) and am not convinced they can muscle in on the latter. No, the last time I actually loved Nintendo was the N64 and GameCube era, getting lost in the 3D worlds of Hyrule, Delfino Island and the Great Sea. I wanted progress, sure, but mainly in straightforward technical ways. As great as features like Streetpass and Miiverse undoubtedly are (and online in general), they don't really tie-in to the sort of progression I was looking for after the GameCube. With the Switch, however, we finally see that. Nintendo is showing an attitude to software that I haven't seen since the GC days. The latest Breath of the Wild trailer confirms what we already knew - that it looks staggeringly brilliant, and Super Mario Odyssey is the type of real 3D Mario that has been discussed and desired on this forum. It even goes back further than Mario Galaxy and is clearly far more Mario Sunshine than anything else. Both show the sort of ambition I didn't think we'd see again. Maybe Nintendo is behind the competition time-wise, but that's made up for by the fact that this is all running on a handheld. It's pretty much as good as portable tech gets at the moment (give or take). OK, we may be in for a bumpy ride. I do fear Switch not taking off, but for me Nintendo was always best when it was slightly less successful. I don't want it to be as niche as the Virtual Boy, but as long as we can buy it in UK shops and Nintendo can make a profit, that's good enough for me. I do also fear software developers not supporting it, but at least we know Dragon Quest XI is on its way. Quite frankly, a semi-handheld supported by Nintendo and Square-Enix is pretty much the perfect Japan-focused machine. The other sticking point is that I don't really want a hybrid. Either a dedicated console or dedicated handheld (or both) would have been better. But hey, that's Nintendo. They always find a way to supply tech that's worse than the competition, but more expensive. Overall, I don't mind paying a bit extra for this sort of stuff as I think it's outweighed by Nintendo's positive change of attitude. Whether there are enough of us who think that way is the big question. Edited January 14, 2017 by Grazza
Jonnas Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 So, I had seen the presentation yesterday (and read/heard some comments), but hadn't had the opportunity to post until now. A few random thoughts about the Switch: -The console itself still looks hella cool. However, I did hear concerns that the Joy-cons are still too small for bigger hands, so I hope that doesn't give problems down the line; -I actually really liked the ice cube skit. It was engaging, and I actually laughed out loud at the term "HD Rumble". Some fine comedy there, intentional or not; -Price is disappointingly high. I hope there's a price slash during the holidays; -1 2 Switch looks fun, but should've been bundled; -Arms looks like awesome fun. As someone who liked both the Boxing mini-game in Wii Sports and fighting games in general, this looks pretty damn slick. Never thought I'd see Nintendo create a new fighting IP when Smash Bros and Pokkén already exist; -Super Mario Odyssey looks gorgeous. Good to see this in Switch's first year; -Splatoon 2 looks ok, still not much my kind of game, but it's good to see the franchise establishing itself. -Fuck yes, Fire Emblem Warriors. My wishlist for this is tall, but I'll wait for the direct; -Respect for showing Xenoblade 2, SMT 5, and a new unpronounceable IP from Square-Enix. Show some love for the JRPGs; -Not so much respect for Suda51 (who tried to push Travis Touchdown, but clearly had nothing concrete), the FIFA reveal (could you make it sound any more awkwardly corporate?),and the Sega dude (who had nothing); -Breath of the Wild continues to be the most gorgeous thing to ever be. Zelda herself looks fantastic. Also, Gorons and Gerudos and Zoras and Ritos, oh my. Overall, I like how the Switch's first year looks. Some must-haves, some sleeper hits, some new things, some neat 3rd party promises... Reminds me a lot of the Gamecube. The presentation was a bit above average. A few unneeded spots here and there, but it had strong bits, and nothing actually bad. What I found odd was that leaks kept mentioning game after game, and Nintendo mentioned a lot of 3rd party support... and yet we saw little beyond what we already knew for sure existed. Nintendo must've held a lot back with its software demonstration, which makes sense, what with E3 in the horizon.
Pestneb Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 I've said to a few people this morning that it's a wonderful bit of tech (both in terms of what's under the hood and general look and feel), it's just a shame its being undermined by the associated costs (accessories and software). It's great but I'm struggling to think of uses for it. Anyone got any ideas? in a car racer, when you get bumped feel the metal give? In a fps, feel which side you're getting shot from? again a racer actually, the steering wheel using the joy cons as your left and right hand on the steering wheel... don't know if the HD rumble could give the impression of a steering wheel pushing to the right/left when you get bumped from the side/hit uneven terrain?? not sure how feasible that would be though. in a graffiti game, shaking the aerosol you could feel the mixer pinging about inside the can? mario party, a dice shaker I'm sure it would be able to give more feed back in say starfox, the difference between being hit by a lazy, or hitting a tree, or hitting a solid rock, or being blow up, hitting water etc. Hopefully Nintendo will give us an answer soon.
Ashley Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 in a car racer, when you get bumped feel the metal give?In a fps, feel which side you're getting shot from? again a racer actually, the steering wheel using the joy cons as your left and right hand on the steering wheel... don't know if the HD rumble could give the impression of a steering wheel pushing to the right/left when you get bumped from the side/hit uneven terrain?? not sure how feasible that would be though. in a graffiti game, shaking the aerosol you could feel the mixer pinging about inside the can? mario party, a dice shaker I'm sure it would be able to give more feed back in say starfox, the difference between being hit by a lazy, or hitting a tree, or hitting a solid rock, or being blow up, hitting water etc. Hopefully Nintendo will give us an answer soon. I don't drive so two of those are lost on me You could feel which side you're being shot on with standard rumble anyway because the Joy-Con itself would rumble, unless you wanted to specify which region of the body you're being shot on (head, body, legs) but I'm not sure if that's really useful? Dice and mixer are good examples of how it could be used, but...meh? And by that I mean "does the end justify the price", although we don't know the price so nobody can answer that, I just can't see from a gameplay perspective what it can really add but I guess we will find out.
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 So I showed my Mrs a few of the videos for switch on the eShop earlier, and after Mario Odyssey...I'm pre ordering one this evening! Genuinely was 50/50 but she was super excited so I'm doing it! Question: pre ordering from Nintendo official store, is the money only debited once it has been dispatched? Just incase I can't keep her sweet on it for 2 months :p
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