Little Things You Miss About Previous Generations

[Sheikah]

It won't be totally unplayable, since you can patch these games yourself. So you could always patch it even if any servers went down. I'm struggling to think of games that are totally unplayable without a patch though.

 

Plus, patches are done through the main network (separate to game servers). Pretty unlikely they will be shut down any time soon.

[Dcubed]

It won't be totally unplayable, since you can patch these games yourself. So you could always patch it even if any servers went down. I'm struggling to think of games that are totally unplayable without a patch though.

 

Plus, patches are done through the main network (separate to game servers). Pretty unlikely they will be shut down any time soon.

 

You can't patch them yourself. The consoles don't allow any way of patching games other than through their official servers (which is obviously the right way of doing it, lest they blow their security wide open).

 

And those servers will go eventually. They'll no doubt last longer than the matchmaking servers, but they too will go the way of the dodo eventually because the PS4 and Xbone don't offer any sort of backwards compatibility and so cannot share servers...

 

Of course some games will be affected more than others (not every game was Skyrim PS3 after all!), but every game that featured these day 1 updates will eventually be rendered in a less than intended state...

 

It's not that patches are bad per-say (in fact, they offer solutions to problems like game breaking bugs that are only discovered after a game has been released - games like Metroid Other M could've done with having support for patches when their game ending bugs were discovered...), but rather it's that most modern games are built in such a way that they are shipped out before they are complete and are fixed up later; which causes problems for those without an internet connection (both now and in the inevitable future when these consoles' online servers are no longer active).

 

Hell if they want to continue down this route, they could even press discs containing updated versions of these games later on down the line - that's what used to happen in the days before patching (and indeed Nintendo still does this with their games and consoles; while also offering online patches for people who already own these games)

[Sheikah]

You can't patch them yourself. The consoles don't allow any way of patching games other than through their official servers (which is obviously the right way of doing it, lest they blow their security wide open).

 

Come on now, if you're going to debate with me at least get your facts straight. You know I don't stand for that kind of shit.

 

http://www.ps3blog.co.za/guides/how-to-download-game-patches-and-updates-via-your-pc/

 

It's not quick but it's hardly difficult either. But either way, you're wrong.

 

Hell if they want to continue down this route, they could even press discs containing updated versions of these games later on down the line - that's what used to happen in the days before patching (and indeed Nintendo still does this with their games and consoles; while also offering online patches for people who already own these games)

 

That still happens - they're called Game of the Year editions. So either you manually patch it yourself, or buy the GOTY edition. So to me, this really isn't much of an issue.

[Dcubed]

Come on now, if you're going to debate with me at least get your facts straight. You know I don't stand for that kind of shit.

 

http://www.ps3blog.co.za/guides/how-to-download-game-patches-and-updates-via-your-pc/

 

It's not quick but it's hardly difficult either. But either way, you're wrong.

 

Not via official means. That's what I'm discussing here. I'm perfectly aware that you can get DLC and patches onto these systems via hacky and illicit means, but that's well beyond the capabilities of your average joe.

 

Little Timmy isn't going to download this kind of software and rig this kind of elaborate setup in order to get that update or DLC for a game 10-20 odd years from now and nor should they have to...

 

That still happens - they're called Game of the Year editions. So either you manually patch it yourself, or buy the GOTY edition. So to me, this really isn't much of an issue.

 

Not every game gets one. It's hardly the industry standard; even if it is a popular means of re-releasing a game...

[Mr-Paul]

Even if there are workarounds, it isn't ideal and the main point still stands - people miss being able to put a game in a console and it working straight away.

[Sheikah]

Not via official means. That's what I'm discussing here. I'm perfectly aware that you can get DLC and patches onto these systems via hacky and illicit means, but that's well beyond the capabilities of your average joe.

 

Little Timmy isn't going to download this kind of software and rig this kind of elaborate setup in order to get that update or DLC for a game 10-20 odd years from now...

 

Wow, that's pretty lame. So I totally just provide you a simple step-by-step solution (in fact, two - the GOTY edition too), and you then turn the argument into 'it's too difficult for little Timmy'.

 

The fuck? Also, when you say this:

 

You can't patch them yourself. The consoles don't allow any way of patching games other than through their official servers (which is obviously the right way of doing it, lest they blow their security wide open).

 

It seems pretty clear you didn't know there was a way to patch it yourself, then just twisted the argument when shown otherwise.

 

Also Paul, I know you mean well, but come on. What game do you put in your console and it doesn't work straight away? Can we do away with the exaggerations?

 

I'm perfectly aware that you can get DLC and patches onto these systems via hacky and illicit means, but that's well beyond the capabilities of your average joe.

 

Last point on this - There is nothing illegal, hacky or risky about patching it yourself. In fact, that's a really naiive point of view, since people have been patching games on PC using various mirrors for decades. I would be amazed if someone managed to fuck up their PS3 using this method, given that if a patch file was invalid then it would simply not be recognised.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Sheikah
Automerged Doublepost

[Mandalore]

N64 Magazine.

[Dcubed]

Wow, that's pretty lame. So I totally just provide you a simple step-by-step solution (in fact, two - the GOTY edition too), and you then turn the argument into 'it's too difficult for little Timmy'.

 

The fuck? Also, when you say this:

 

 

 

It seems pretty clear you didn't know there was a way to patch it yourself, then just twisted the argument when shown otherwise.

 

The only one twisting things here is you. To quote an earlier post that I in fact made in response to YOU...

 

When those online servers go offline, that content is gone for good (unless you can otherwise hack the game/console - but that would be beyond the means of many and shouldn't have to be done to begin with). That's not right and there is no way on this planet that you can spin that otherwise!

 

Clearly reading a response to your own post is too much of a courtesy to ask of you...

 

 

Last point on this - There is nothing illegal, hacky or risky about patching it yourself. In fact, that's a really naiive point of view, since people have been patching games on PC using various mirrors for decades. I would be amazed if someone managed to fuck up their PS3 using this method, given that if a patch file was invalid then it would simply not be recognised.

 

When did I say that patching was risky? Or otherwise morally ambiguous? (getting paid DLC without buying it off the store is a different matter; hence why I mentioned the word "illicit" since the same techniques would have to be used to get paid DLC onto these consoles without the presense of the official online servers). The whole point I was making was that it was something that should not have to be done in order to play the game as originally intended - especially not by someone who would not really know of otherwise feel comfortable in using these methods (which by their nature are indeed hacks - be it a hack of the game or console itself, or of a hack in the way that online TCP calls are routed - it is breaking the design of the way the system was intended to work).

 

But chances are that your response to this post is pretty much "LOL TLDR" in disguise; so I think I'll probably just call it quits here since you clearly have no respect for me or anyone else's opinion other than your own...

 

N64 Magazine.

 

And Superplay while we're at it too!

 

 

Always did love Wil Overton's art

Edited April 19, 2014 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

@Dcubed, I'm going to be honest, I'm getting a little pissed off with your attitude about these parts. Right now you're suggesting things that just aren't true, and it's certainly not the first you've done this (I saw the same regarding your apparent knowledge of Gamespy server hosting of various games/networks).

 

Read what you posted - you said "Unless you can otherwise hack the console" . You didn't say you can, you actually posted it as a possibility. You then later went on to, very clearly, say something false. You said: "The consoles don't allow any way of patching games other than through their official servers. Not 'PS3s cannot be officially patched other than through the servers'. You very clearly stated 'any'. You simply didn't know, which is fine, but stop trying to come across as if you know more than you do. I really can't stand when people do that.

 

Regarding the 'desire to play games as the maker intended'. Do you really think we used to do that in the past? In the past you were left with what you had. Extra dungeon in Wind Waker? No DLC or patch for that. Framerate issues in Conker's Bad Fur Day? That's your lot. Linking together of the Banjo Kazooie secrets properly with the sequel? No chance. Doing whatever was meant to be done with Aeris (as she appeared almost as a glitch in the church) in FF7? No wai. Missingno? Missng-patch. Harvest Moon Back to Nature not locking up after you get married? You should be so lucky.

 

I for one think that, even though the patching method is a bit obtuse, it's good that it is there. And let's be honest, it's a step by step protocol, even a monkey could do it. It's not exactly two seconds work, but it's doable. Better to have than not.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

@Dcubed, I'm going to be honest, I'm getting a little pissed off with your attitude about these parts. Right now you're suggesting things that just aren't true, and it's certainly not the first you've done this (I saw the same when regarding your apparent knowledge of Gamespy server hosting of various games).

 

Read what you posted - you said "Unless you can otherwise hack the console" . You didn't say you can, you actually posted it as a possibility. You then later went on to, very clearly, say something false. You said: "The consoles don't allow any way of patching games other than through their official servers. Not 'PS3s cannot be officially patched other than through the servers'. You very clearly stated 'any'. You simply didn't know, which is fine, but stop trying to come across as if you know more than you do. I really can't stand when people do that.

 

For someone who seems to want to play Grammar Nazi here; it's pretty funny that you seem to pick up on a minor grammar error (where I say "can" - which I should've really deleted, but I didn't think it would be so much of an issue that anyone would care, considering that it had nothing to do with the point I was making anyway...) and yet you don't seem to realise that I am indeed correct in saying that the consoles don't allow patches to be installed by any means other than via download via the official servers; I never said that there weren't other means of doing so outside of what the console allows officially... (Not to mention that there are other ways besides TCP routing, such as install via USB through the use of custom firmware on PS3 or flashing a 360's DVD drive to allow for unsigned code to run; and using homebrew apps to inject DLC/updates etc onto the hard drive via USB - since you're so interested in this too, you'll surely also know that this is possible for installing DLC and updates for original Xbox games too - using the DLC that pirates have archived from Xbox Live when it was still up).

 

Anyway; enough shitting up this thread. This is not the place to discuss methods of DLC installation or homebrew. This is a place to reminisce about aspects of gaming that have been lost (and indeed will be lost in the near future). You clearly have no interest in the point I was making to begin with, so please kindly drop it and let us carry on with what the topic was about to begin with...

[Sheikah]

Christ. This is getting really strung out, but all because you're trying to save face. I just don't get it.

 

I'm really not picking up on one grammar error here. You can't justify saying the things you did unless you simply didn't know. These aren't slight misinterpretations, by the way:

 

You can't patch them yourself.

Followed by

The consoles don't allow any way of patching games other than through their official servers (which is obviously the right way of doing it, lest they blow their security wide open).

 

The last part, saying 'no other way than through their official servers' actually makes it seem very clear you are ruling out unofficial routes. You're basically saying "The console won't allow you to patch the game any other way than using their official servers." Which is just not true.

[Jonnas]

But what online game on the PS2 do you still wish you could play that you no longer can? Since that is the major point here - that online games won't last.

 

I thought we were talking about how online gaming has superseded local multiplayer as the norm?

 

Either way, the online of the PS2 was barebones, and not the sort of thing anyone wanted to maintain in the first place. But I do occasionally play Rise of Nations (a 2004 PC game) online with a friend, and I'd hate to lose something like that.

 

There are plenty of multiplayer games that stand the test of time (Counter-Strike, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Starcraft, among others), and the shift to online multiplayer might mean that this experience might be lost to a future generation because they won't work with their online friends.

[Sheikah]

I thought we were talking about how online gaming has superseded local multiplayer as the norm?

 

Either way, the online of the PS2 was barebones, and not the sort of thing anyone wanted to maintain in the first place. But I do occasionally play Rise of Nations (a 2004 PC game) online with a friend, and I'd hate to lose something like that.

 

There are plenty of multiplayer games that stand the test of time (Counter-Strike, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Starcraft, among others), and the shift to online multiplayer might mean that this experience might be lost to a future generation because they won't work with their online friends.

 

Well the topic is more or less about things you miss from previous generations - and how online is a poor substitute for local play since online will 'expire'.

 

In order for that to qualify we're basically talking about games with online modes instead of local play (ie. not Mario Kart Wii, which has both). To which, I'm basically saying, how many online only games (or those with no local play) that have expired server play from the PS2 era do we really miss? I think most are superseded or generally little cared about (due to advancements) by now.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

To which, I'm basically saying, how many online only games (or those with no local play) that have expired server play from the PS2 era do we really miss? I think most are superseded or generally little cared about (due to advancements) by now.

 

Monster Hunter, Monster Hunter 2 and Metal Gear Solid 3's online mode instantly spring to mind for me... (And no, they have not been made "redundant" by any of their sequels either!)

 

The idea of a game being made "redundant" by a sequel in general is also ludicrous. As if to suggest that a sequel instantly makes its progenitor worthless... (You could make a point for an enhanced version of a game making its original counterpart worthless - for things like Monster Hunter G going on from the original - but that's still a pretty flimsy argument, considering that it's very rare that such enhanced versions or remakes truly include everything from the games they stem from...)

 

...How offensive is that to all the people whose blood sweat and tears went into these games originally and to all the people with such happy memories to be told that their old shit is a pile of crap because the newer and shinier games exist now and that the old games shouldn't be cherished or aren't worth preserving!

 

Burnout Paradise and Burnout Revenge don't make Burnout 2 or 3 redundant and nor does Fifa 12 make Fifa 06 or ISS64 redundant! People should be upset if these games are to be rendered unplayable or otherwise less playable for multiplayer (i.e they have no local multiplayer and were online only). Taking away the multiplayer of games they enjoyed and then "consoling" them with a new sequel that has online play (but again no local) is a kick to the balls that should not be tolerated!

Edited April 19, 2014 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

Monster Hunter, Monster Hunter 2 and Metal Gear Solid 3's online mode instantly spring to mind for me... (And no, they have not been made "redundant" by any of their sequels either!)

 

No, you're twisting it again. I said which games that were online only in the stead of a local play feature are sorely missed?

 

This topic is about old generation stuff we used to miss, ie. before the days of patches and online play. If a game still has a local play mode, then you're not missing anything that you didn't already have in the old generations (which were pre online / patch days).

 

And I might have even been wrong before. Pretty sure SOCOM had offline local play. Twisted Metal Black Online...maybe?

 

The only potential candidate I can think of right now that would apply is Warhawk/Starhawk (actually, did the latter have local play? I know Warhawk didn't). Basically, what I'm saying is, which games have totally scrapped local play for online in the past, which have now shut down the servers so are totally unplayable in any form, that we miss so badly?

Edited April 19, 2014 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

No, you're twisting it again. I said which games that were online only in the stead of a local play feature are sorely missed?

 

This topic is about old generation stuff we used to miss, ie. before the days of patches and online play. If a game still has a local play mode, then you're not missing anything that you didn't already have in the old generations (which were pre online / patch days).

 

And I might have even been wrong before. Pretty sure SOCOM had offline local play. Twisted Metal Black...maybe?

 

The only potential candidate I can think of right now for future generations is Warhawk/Starhawk (actually, did the latter have local play? I know Warhawk didn't).

 

All three of the games I mentioned (MH1 & 2 and MGS3) were online only. They have no local play options at all (and indeed are sorely missed by me and many others... - infact somebody just recently built a private server for MGS3 to try and restore the online multiplayer functionality - it only works on chipped PS2s and on emulators, but it can be played... - not by most people though, since they wouldn't know how to get it working; which comes back to the point I was making before...)

Edited April 19, 2014 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

"The European copies have split screen up to 4 players. American and Japan copies don't."

 

(regarding Monster Hunter 1, that I looked up). I would also challenge that regarding MH - the series is very incremental, such that I couldn't even imagine there'd be any reason to turn to MH1 again after MH3. You're basically doing the same thing but with better graphics, more bosses, more weapons and a far better online infrastructure. The story to MH games is extremely thin on the ground, so it's not like I'd be returning to those games for that. Yes, you can try extrapolate that to any sequel, but I genuinely feel that the MH series is one that doesn't leave much reason to regress back to an older version, much the same way as something like FIFA. Not that it really matters since they do apparently have local.

 

 

MGS3 'online mode' I will say fair enough to. I don't know what it was like, so I can't really comment. Although there is an online mode to MGS4, but I have no idea to what extent that is similar to the previous game. Still, seems pretty sparse the amount of stuff anyone will really miss.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

"The European copies have split screen up to 4 players. American and Japan copies don't."

 

(regarding Monster Hunter 1, that I looked up). I would also challenge that regarding MH - the series is very incremental, such that I couldn't even imagine there'd be any reason to turn to MH1 again after MH3. You're basically doing the same thing but with better graphics, more bosses, more weapons and a far better online infrastructure. The story to MH games is extremely thin on the ground, so it's not like I'd be returning to those games for that.

 

 

MGS3 'online mode' I will say fair enough to. I don't know what it was like, so I can't really comment. Although there is an online mode to MGS4, but I have no idea to what extent that is similar to the previous game. Still, seems pretty sparse the amount of stuff anyone will really miss.

 

Dunno where you read that, but that's not true. The only Monster Hunter game that has splitscreen multiplayer is Tri on Wii (and that's only for Arena quests - not the main multiplayer mode; which, like its PS2 prequels, was online only).

 

And Tri is a very different game to the first two... It in no way makes them "redundant" and I actually take offence your dismissal of people who actually care about these older games... (Something that is systematic of the industry in general sadly - but that's for another topic...)

[Sheikah]

I'm not dismissive of all older games. There are a lot of games that I remember that had local play that don't feel superseded by anything else (I'm still very fond of Mario Party 2, even though there have been sequels). But regarding MH, which I have played, it most definitely is one of those titles that has been superseded by a far superior gameplay experience. There is, at least to me, no reason why I would go back to it while I have Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate. It would be like going back in time in a very bad way. The same way I would not go and locate a copy of FIFA 2003 and play that.

 

I know you disagree on that as you obviously like the game, but that's just the way I feel. In my view, the very limited pool of games from the past that have totally scrapped local play for online don't seem so missed.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Sheikah

[bob]

Guys, why don't you take this outside. No one else cares, and you've gone off topic.

[sumo73]

If Quake was done today-

 

 

 

Also I miss video games being on tape/floppy disc and long loading times. Yes, I'm old enough to remember all of that!

Edited April 23, 2014 by sumo73

[Rummy]

Similar to others;

 

Fun/gateway glitches and secrets/cheats - I've always loved doing things you're not 'supposed' to do. This includes the obvious of intentional secrets, easter eggs, cheats, cheat codes, but then sliding into bugs and glitches that give some sort of interesting experience too.

A notable one I recall from my middle gaming days when the internet already existed was learning of Link to the Past's 'select/map screen warp glitch'. Essentially bringing up the map as you moved between screens jumped you to the same position on the next screen(so head left, hit map, close map, you'll be on the left edge of the new screen). Interestingly the internet had found all manner of shortcuts and glitches and item things as a result of this - truly fascinating stuff for me at the time.

 

Actual cheat devices - Like and along with the above - I loved doing what you weren't supposed to. Sometimes I loved taking the easy road, too. Or giving myself a little boost. What was still fun with it was I recall it even helping me to find other secrets and stuff. I loved the idea of cheat devices, and having owned a GameGenie on SNES(not even sure how/why we got this sporadic buy as kids) I later fell in love with cheating on emulators, and IRL ended up with an ActionReplay for both my N64 and later GBC - and spend a lot of time creating or modding codes with it. Sadly they don't seem to exist any more, and with some good reason, but I still miss them.

(been contemplating a thread releated to the cheating concept, so this might be an apt time to make one actually)

 

 

No load times - It's been said, and it's self explanatory, but the ease and speed of gaming was nice compared to some of the loadup I notice these days.

 

The game is all there - Again it's sort of been said and is similar to the above - but the game is there. It exists and always will. Barring the fooked battery in some of my games, I can still actually bust out my old SNES, pop a cartridge in and BAM! Off I go. No wait, no faff, all go. N64 hit a middle ground of sorts here as it started to rely in some instances on external memory storage(memory paks).

 

 

Whilst I don't miss only having 1 or 2 games a year, I do sympathise with @Goafer's point that I would have used to have made the most out of it. Now I'm spoilt for choice, stacking up sealed boxes all over the shop. The other side of it was that if I ended up with a duff game I was a bit buggered - however that's how you might have discovered hidden gems you wouldn't have otherwise touched.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Rummy

[Retro_Link]

Having the box art be the final thing revealed.

 

I cannot tell you how much the current trend of revealing the box art first and nearly always along with some pre-order stuff annoys me.

 

On the Final Bosman the other week, Kyle brought up the fact that we already have the Halo 5 boxart! It's not even out until the end of 2015 ffs! And Far Cry 4 and Forza Horizon 2 are the latest in a long line! STOP IT!

 

Awesome box arts are probably fewer and farther between now as a result.

 

Box arts used to be one of the final things revealed before launch, you had a build up to it and it's reveal let the know the game was within touching distance. It's thankfully something I think Nintendo still largely does.